Attack on Taiwan an option to stop independence, top China general says

[PatOngo]

52 minutes ago, ChakaKhan said:

Thinking about visiting---how does it compare to LOS and cost  any info and tips welcome!

I was paid to go work there, I would never return! Vietnam is much more appealing!

[rabas]

19 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Perhaps it is open to interpretation whether or not the Golden clans were Chinese. Most consider Genghis Khan and his sons  to have been Chinese. And considering that they ruled over 12 million square miles of land and his empire stretched from Costantinople to the Korea, that was a rather impressive Chinese achievement. 

It's a stretch to say that people of Mongolian ethnicity from Mongolia using
Mongolian weapons, Mongolian strategies, Mongolian horses, speaking Mongolian written in Mongol script conquering everything from Constantinople to Korea was a Chinese achievement. Especially since the Chinese lost and China was eventually depopulated from 50 million to 8.5 million people.

 

It's true that the Yuan Dynasty under Kublai Khan adopted many Chinese traditions. But Chinese history is not one long line of Chinese dynasties, it was often fractured into multiple kingdoms, areas, and peoples. Chinese accept all of this as part of their historical record. 

 

China in fact is not the oldest civilization but during the Spring Autumn and  Warring States period (475-221 BC. ) it had greatly superior weapons and technology, much of it amazing. 

[Heppinger]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The Chinese, unlike the Americans, are in this for the long game. 

Your ignoring the elephant in the room, this elephant wrote the rules of the game long before there was even Americans or Chinese.  World order was decided 75 years ago.  If world power was really still there for the taking then a strong, healthy, united and nationalistic population would be needed to protect it. America would not have allowed the subversion and degradation of it's culture over the last 60 years to take place.  Yes China will be the manufacturing center of the new world, as was the plan since kissinger and nixon visited in the early 70's.  Though China won't have any real military power, enough for internal use, that's all they need.  Globalists run the world, and china has just one of many seats at the table.  It should be painfully obvious by now that Governments, democratic or communist, don't care to much for their people, so why would they care about nations?  Think you will find power broker's from both the US and China have more in common with each other then they do with their working class.  

[ChakaKhan]

21 hours ago, PatOngo said:

I was paid to go work there, I would never return! Vietnam is much more appealing!

Ok..why never return, and what makes Vietnam more appealing..Im all ears..

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Heppinger said:

Your ignoring the elephant in the room, this elephant wrote the rules of the game long before there was even Americans or Chinese.  World order was decided 75 years ago.  If world power was really still there for the taking then a strong, healthy, united and nationalistic population would be needed to protect it. America would not have allowed the subversion and degradation of it's culture over the last 60 years to take place.  Yes China will be the manufacturing center of the new world, as was the plan since kissinger and nixon visited in the early 70's.  Though China won't have any real military power, enough for internal use, that's all they need.  Globalists run the world, and china has just one of many seats at the table.  It should be painfully obvious by now that Governments, democratic or communist, don't care to much for their people, so why would they care about nations?  Think you will find power broker's from both the US and China have more in common with each other then they do with their working class.  

People fool themselves, IMO, that they can have a say by voting in elections, LOL.

Real power is wielded by people we will never know and never hear about.

[Heppinger]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

People fool themselves, IMO, that they can have a say by voting in elections, LOL.

Real power is wielded by people we will never know and never hear about.

Very true.  These people, even if born on opposite ends of the earth, have more in common with each other than they do with the people that serve and work for them. 

[Logosone]

On 6/4/2020 at 10:20 AM, ChakaKhan said:

Thinking about visiting---how does it compare to LOS and cost  any info and tips welcome!

It's really a wonderful place. Winding serpentine hills, reminded me of parts of the Mediterranean.

 

It is highly developed, the flagship Taipei towers are comparable to top Thai supermalls, however they are more overcrowded and do not have the breadth of international/US offerings. It is more geared towards rich Chinese, so Gucci, LV, et al yes, but some of the smaller midrange offerings or Japanese chains you find in Thailand are not there.

 

Having said that in Tamsui they've built wonderful thing, a promenade off a top hotel goes out into the sea, a lot of quaint restaurants below, Lover's bridge lights up in different colours at night.

 

Taiwan is incredibly expensive compared to Thailand. I stayed in a place that cost me twice as much per month as I pay here in Thailand and whilst it was a high end luxury complex with massage rooms and jaccuzzi rooms in the club house, obviously for the Chinese, the place was not as large as the one I have here. Restaurants are expensive, but the standard is surprisingly low. The much vaunted Taiwanese cuisine disappointed, beef soup okay, but overall it wasn't much to write home about. They do have the best noodles in the world though, which surprised me, a flat curly type was highly impressive. High end restaurants have that sterile stiff Chinese feel about them, better to go to small eateries in the tourist enclave that is Tamsui, though many are of a poor standard some are good and the atmossphere is relaxed.

 

It gets colder around October and they close the swimming pools in the condos, bear that in mind when you book. Quite windy then too.

 

The underground in Taiwan is superb and cheap but taxis are not. Uber exists but works poorly, Grab does not exist. So you should book close to where you want to be. It's important.

 

The Taiwanese people are Chinese, so not as nice and friendly as SE Asians, however, when I needed help and asked for it, I had to print out docs, I received it generously and kindly. I like the Taiwanese.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Heppinger said:

would these be your opinions?  I think if a participant in the fight leaves the arena then they lose.

Not my opinion. The opinion of the documentary maker that made the documentary I watched so long ago I can't remember the name of the documentary. He made a convincing argument that the military war was won by the US. For sure the politicians ran away and it was all a waste of lives and money, in the end.

[Heppinger]

3 minutes ago, KhunKenAP said:

2020 may be the end of it all.

No. just America for now.

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, ChakaKhan said:

Ok..why never return, and what makes Vietnam more appealing..Im all ears..

Taiwanese would be the coldest people I have encountered in Asia, I have worked and travelled extensively in Vietnam and enjoyed everywhere I've been!

[steevjee]

On 5/29/2020 at 10:23 PM, tribalfusion001 said:

Then be prepared for a conventional war with the USA or nuclear attack.

Seriously buddy?? 

Are you not aware that if either USA or China launched a Nuclear attack on the other then 90% of Humanity would be wiped from the Earth and the remaining 10% will wish that they had.

The Chinese will eventually reclaim all that they wish to and thats just a hard fact.

 

[Brunolem]

2 minutes ago, steevjee said:

 

The Chinese will eventually reclaim all that they wish to and thats just a hard fact.

 

It can't be a fact, because it hasn't happened yet, so for now it is just a prediction...

[spidermike007]

13 hours ago, Heppinger said:

Your ignoring the elephant in the room, this elephant wrote the rules of the game long before there was even Americans or Chinese.  World order was decided 75 years ago.  If world power was really still there for the taking then a strong, healthy, united and nationalistic population would be needed to protect it. America would not have allowed the subversion and degradation of it's culture over the last 60 years to take place.  Yes China will be the manufacturing center of the new world, as was the plan since kissinger and nixon visited in the early 70's.  Though China won't have any real military power, enough for internal use, that's all they need.  Globalists run the world, and china has just one of many seats at the table.  It should be painfully obvious by now that Governments, democratic or communist, don't care to much for their people, so why would they care about nations?  Think you will find power broker's from both the US and China have more in common with each other then they do with their working class.  

 

I think you are speaking alot of truth there. It is obvious few governments care about their people. I consider mine, the US government to be the enemy. The recent events have shown that to be the case. Our interests, as non wealthy US citizens mean less than zero to them. 

[ExpatOilWorker]

21 minutes ago, steevjee said:

Seriously buddy?? 

Are you not aware that if either USA or China launched a Nuclear attack on the other then 90% of Humanity would be wiped from the Earth and the remaining 10% will wish that they had.

The Chinese will eventually reclaim all that they wish to and thats just a hard fact.

 

China have a 5,000 km tunnel system.  They might want to sit out the first blast and hit hard in round 2.

https://jamestown.org/program/chinas-underground-great-wall-and-nuclear-deterrence/

[Heppinger]

44 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

China have a 5,000 km tunnel system.  They might want to sit out the first blast and hit hard in round 2.

https://jamestown.org/program/chinas-underground-great-wall-and-nuclear-deterrence/

Hit hard with what? their chop sticks? Pretty sure everything above ground would be <deleted>d. 

[phkauf]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

It's really a wonderful place. Winding serpentine hills, reminded me of parts of the Mediterranean.

 

It is highly developed, the flagship Taipei towers are comparable to top Thai supermalls, however they are more overcrowded and do not have the breadth of international/US offerings. It is more geared towards rich Chinese, so Gucci, LV, et al yes, but some of the smaller midrange offerings or Japanese chains you find in Thailand are not there.

 

Having said that in Tamsui they've built wonderful thing, a promenade off a top hotel goes out into the sea, a lot of quaint restaurants below, Lover's bridge lights up in different colours at night.

 

Taiwan is incredibly expensive compared to Thailand. I stayed in a place that cost me twice as much per month as I pay here in Thailand and whilst it was a high end luxury complex with massage rooms and jaccuzzi rooms in the club house, obviously for the Chinese, the place was not as large as the one I have here. Restaurants are expensive, but the standard is surprisingly low. The much vaunted Taiwanese cuisine disappointed, beef soup okay, but overall it wasn't much to write home about. They do have the best noodles in the world though, which surprised me, a flat curly type was highly impressive. High end restaurants have that sterile stiff Chinese feel about them, better to go to small eateries in the tourist enclave that is Tamsui, though many are of a poor standard some are good and the atmossphere is relaxed.

 

It gets colder around October and they close the swimming pools in the condos, bear that in mind when you book. Quite windy then too.

 

The underground in Taiwan is superb and cheap but taxis are not. Uber exists but works poorly, Grab does not exist. So you should book close to where you want to be. It's important.

 

The Taiwanese people are Chinese, so not as nice and friendly as SE Asians, however, when I needed help and asked for it, I had to print out docs, I received it generously and kindly. I like the Taiwanese.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that. I too have similar feeling about Taiwan, altho I find the food great with a wide variety of dishes found from all regions of China (but everyone has different tastes so no probs there). 

As for cost of living, I don't think it's so much different in the mid-range to Thailand - Taiwan's lower range is simply not good and in no way comparable to the low range of Thailand. Once you get out of Taipei the prices drop a lot.

I found the people to be very friendly and welcoming, but like most Chinese a little shy or standoffish at first. If someone did not speak English, usually there was someone nearby offering help. And the most important thing relative to Thailand, I never once felt like I was going to get scammed - not even by the taxi drivers. Altho the guys hanging out in Ximen looking for tourists will overcharge you for one of their "tours".

The Taiwanese are much more like the Japanese in cultural behavior, without the oppressive societal scorn for falling out of line. Probably my next destination once I leave Thailand.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[Logosone]

13 minutes ago, phkauf said:

Thanks for that. I too have similar feeling about Taiwan, altho I find the food great with a wide variety of dishes found from all regions of China (but everyone has different tastes so no probs there). 

As for cost of living, I don't think it's so much different in the mid-range to Thailand - Taiwan's lower range is simply not good and in no way comparable to the low range of Thailand. Once you get out of Taipei the prices drop a lot.

I found the people to be very friendly and welcoming, but like most Chinese a little shy or standoffish at first. If someone did not speak English, usually there was someone nearby offering help. And the most important thing relative to Thailand, I never once felt like I was going to get scammed - not even by the taxi drivers. Altho the guys hanging out in Ximen looking for tourists will overcharge you for one of their "tours".

The Taiwanese are much more like the Japanese in cultural behavior, without the oppressive societal scorn for falling out of line. Probably my next destination once I leave Thailand.

Yes, there is definitely good food to be had. However, I found it more on the street stalls selling real Chinese dough sticks, or really high end restaurants, where yes the Chinese food was good. But overcrowded restaurants, harsh atmosphere. I did not get the impression that the highly praised Taiwanese cuisine was very special. They did have the best noodles in the world, but it was hard to find a very good restaurant, a lot of duds in Taiwan. Some good, but  very hit and miss. 

 

As for cost I think what made a difference was the expensive apartment, all the taxi/uber rides (uber is expensive there) and yes restaurants are not really cheap. I tend not to try the very low range accomodation, so can't comment. But for a European standard you'll pay a lot. That expensive apartment was wonderful but no dishwasher, instead a dish drying thing. Bizarre.

 

You do not get scammed in Taiwan. That's true. Very helpful people really. I heard about the Japanese influence in Taiwan some time ago. Definitely has its own vibe. Would go there again. I'll make sure to pick a place in walking distance of an underground station this time though. As nice as Tamsui is, it's a bit outside town.

 

 

[rvaviator]

On 6/2/2020 at 5:35 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

If they take Taiwan without any western response, IMO the Chinese communists will know the way is clear to take over the rest of SEA. Not immediately, but one by one. The Chinese have always played a long game.

America and it's allies went into Vietnam to stop it happening in the 60s, but gave up too easily. IMO China has just been waiting for another opportunity, and may think that time has come.

I think smart people have learned that military power and aggression does not gain ultimate riches long therm.   Better to win by economy and wealth.... Play the long game. Have a strategy, make sure that 'most of your own population is happy (80% to 90% - High 90% is best').  Now if you can manage that without the western 'overhead' of democracy as we understand it in the west ...  Well then I think you will 'win' in the end .....  ???? 

[Eric Loh]

44 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

I think smart people have learned that military power and aggression does not gain ultimate riches long therm.   Better to win by economy and wealth.... Play the long game. Have a strategy, make sure that 'most of your own population is happy (80% to 90% - High 90% is best').  Now if you can manage that without the western 'overhead' of democracy as we understand it in the west ...  Well then I think you will 'win' in the end .....  ???? 

Good understanding of Xi Jinping’s foresight and ideals for a new era of China. 

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, steevjee said:

Seriously buddy?? 

Are you not aware that if either USA or China launched a Nuclear attack on the other then 90% of Humanity would be wiped from the Earth and the remaining 10% will wish that they had.

The Chinese will eventually reclaim all that they wish to and thats just a hard fact.

 

I can't see the US using nukes to save Taiwan, and the Chinese know if they used nukes on the US it's the end of China.

Sadly, I agree that China will eventually get everything. The west is just too soft and corrupt to withstand an enemy not afraid to do what it takes. We sold out to China after Nixon. Now it's just a matter of time. I think the generation to come will have more to worry about than what gender they are.

[ChakaKhan]

21 hours ago, Logosone said:

It's really a wonderful place. Winding serpentine hills, reminded me of parts of the Mediterranean.

 

It is highly developed, the flagship Taipei towers are comparable to top Thai supermalls, however they are more overcrowded and do not have the breadth of international/US offerings. It is more geared towards rich Chinese, so Gucci, LV, et al yes, but some of the smaller midrange offerings or Japanese chains you find in Thailand are not there.

 

Having said that in Tamsui they've built wonderful thing, a promenade off a top hotel goes out into the sea, a lot of quaint restaurants below, Lover's bridge lights up in different colours at night.

 

Taiwan is incredibly expensive compared to Thailand. I stayed in a place that cost me twice as much per month as I pay here in Thailand and whilst it was a high end luxury complex with massage rooms and jaccuzzi rooms in the club house, obviously for the Chinese, the place was not as large as the one I have here. Restaurants are expensive, but the standard is surprisingly low. The much vaunted Taiwanese cuisine disappointed, beef soup okay, but overall it wasn't much to write home about. They do have the best noodles in the world though, which surprised me, a flat curly type was highly impressive. High end restaurants have that sterile stiff Chinese feel about them, better to go to small eateries in the tourist enclave that is Tamsui, though many are of a poor standard some are good and the atmossphere is relaxed.

 

It gets colder around October and they close the swimming pools in the condos, bear that in mind when you book. Quite windy then too.

 

The underground in Taiwan is superb and cheap but taxis are not. Uber exists but works poorly, Grab does not exist. So you should book close to where you want to be. It's important.

 

The Taiwanese people are Chinese, so not as nice and friendly as SE Asians, however, when I needed help and asked for it, I had to print out docs, I received it generously and kindly. I like the Taiwanese.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good info--Thanks!  i always transfer there thru EVA to Bkk and always wondered about staying a bit but maybe just for a visit as I stay in LOS due to the cost of living.....

[ChakaKhan]

20 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Taiwanese would be the coldest people I have encountered in Asia, I have worked and travelled extensively in Vietnam and enjoyed everywhere I've been!

Hmmmm..good info....maybe will take a short visit for a few days on my way back to LOS as I transit thru

[PatOngo]

15 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Good understanding of Xi Jinping’s foresight and ideals for a new era of China. 

Emperor Xi of the Yuan Dynasty! As dangerous or more so than Mao Zedong!

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, PatOngo said:

Emperor Xi of the Yuan Dynasty! As dangerous or more so than Mao Zedong!

He is revered as much as Mao. His father was imprisoned during Mao’s cultural revolution. He is assertive as regards to issues of HK, Taiwan and SCS but he much prefer soft power and longer terms horizon. The liberal west should try to live with China as a super power rather than prevent them from being one. Much to be gained from global cooperation. 

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

He is revered as much as Mao. His father was imprisoned during Mao’s cultural revolution. He is assertive as regards to issues of HK, Taiwan and SCS but he much prefer soft power and longer terms horizon. The liberal west should try to live with China as a super power rather than prevent them from being one. Much to be gained from global cooperation. 

I bet they (Chinese) can't believe their luck with regard to the disarray of the "other" super power right now, they could not have scripted it better!

[jimmybcool]

9 hours ago, PatOngo said:

I bet they (Chinese) can't believe their luck with regard to the disarray of the "other" super power right now, they could not have scripted it better!

It makes no difference in international power balance.  The chain of command is the same and the military is the same.

 

 

[jimmybcool]

11 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

 The liberal west should try to live with China as a super power rather than prevent them from being one. Much to be gained from global cooperation. 

Being a super power is one thing.  Gobbling up neighboring nations and subjugating ones own citizens is another.  The west should NOT accept or cooperate with that government.

 

 

[Gee Ku]

Taiwan is never China's territority. When the nationalists under Chiang Kai-Shek lost their struggle with the communists led by Mao Zedong and escaped to Taiwan they have consistently kept the communist government at arm's length. They have implacably acknowledged they are Chinese but not China's citizens.

They are their own nation with their own country. And Taiwan has never been China will it be. If China bullied the Taiwanese into submission and forcibly grabbed Taiwan, it would have perpetual insurgency raging non-stop in the island until China's communist government crumbles. That is a clear prophecy from me.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Forbes: If China Invades Taiwan, This Is What The Fleet Could Look Like.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/hisutton/2020/06/07/if-china-invades-taiwan-this-is-what-the-fleet-could-look-like/