Anyone have a crystal ball for us Non O holders?

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Indeed, there will be NO overstay-penalties when your current permission to stay expires during the Amnesty period because ALL permissions to stay are automatically extended till 31 July.

However, what is not so sure is whether IO will allow you to apply for your 1-year extension of stay when you did not apply before the normal due date of your permission to stay.  And in that case you would be forced to exit the country once the Amnesty is over and apply again from scratch.

Hence the recommendation to do your 1-year extension of stay before the due date.

And in case you do not meet the requirements yet, you could as an intermediate step apply for the 60-day extension of stay to ensure an unbroken chain of extensions.

Thanks. But once we are allowed to re-enter the country with no restrictions, and as long as any neighbouring country is open, then I'll do a 90 day exit/entry. That will, as things stand, be anytime after 31st July.

I'm fortunate perhaps to live close enough to the border at Mukdahan to be able to pop over to Laos and be back home in time for lunch. I have no need of any extension, 60 day or yearly. If I spend on going somewhere, at least I'm getting something for my money.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

It seems you're a bit of a conspiracy theorist. If you meet the requirements for a 1 year extension based on for example marriage or retirement, then you will have your extension. I don't know what requirement you don't officially meet, but is that your immigration office's fault? 

Conspiracy?  No - 1st hand experience.  I met every published requirement every time.  Many others report similar, so I know I am not alone.  It is the "fault" of whoever gives the order to demand "unpublished" requirements, to increase "envelope" revenues. 

I am sure others are bored of my list, but so you how it REALLY works when you do NOT use an immigration's agent-partners:

 

Non-O-90 day:

 - Jomtien - Rejected because income not allowed in any form; a "custom" word-doc was printed, at that moment, which did not resemble the "official requirements" from Bangkok.  My income-letter was stamped by the MFA, but evidently too many applicants had this known "blocker requirement" when I applied, so ... Rejected.
Envelope Method: 15K to Agent (next door to imm-office), only alternative

 

Non-O 1-year, starting with Non-O Visa entry:
 - Jomtien: landlord docs - 3 visits - added more docs each visit, which ended with, "This house book old-style, have your landlord get a new one from the amphoe."  They knew my Thai landlord lived in Europe, so ... Rejected.
Envelope Method: 25K to Agent, only alternative

 

 - Issan: "Your proven income is not from a state pension" - I had embassy letter + proof of international transfers well above 40K/mo.  This was the only office they were polite to my wife - blamed the district office, so... Rejected.

(did not check agents here)

 

 - BOI Bangkok - "We will not process an extension for anyone on a Non-O (marriage) Visa-Entry.  Go out to a nearby consulate for a Non-B Visa, and then apply," so ... Rejected.
(employer said agent/lawyer price-quotes were 'insane' - I don't want a "Non-B" anyway - I am married to a Thai)

 - Chiang Wattana: "We need your employer to get originals of ... (all the docs fetched from various govt agencies around town to support my work permit), again."  I had copies of these plus my work-permit in-hand - not good enough.  In the past, Non-O-marriage applicants only needed proof of paid taxes (which I had), so ... Rejected.
Envelope Method: 35K to "Law Firm," only alternative

Edited June 3, 2020 by JackThompson

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

And in that case you would be forced to exit the country once the Amnesty is over and apply again from scratch.

As far as I can see everyone 'applies from scratch' for every extension.

Has your IO ever said, 'we don't need those documents, we saw them last year'?

[Peter Denis]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

As far as I can see everyone 'applies from scratch' for every extension.

Has your IO ever said, 'we don't need those documents, we saw them last year'?

When the application for a 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O Visa is refused and there are no options left to meet the financial requirements anymore (e.g. you slipped under the 800K/400K tresshold when using the money-in-bank method or you did not transfer 65K in every single preceding 12 month or your local IO refuses to handle your application because the due date of your permission to stay expired), then you only have 2 options left:

1 - Using an agent to circumvent the issue;

2 - Exiting Thailand which means 'starting from scratch again' - as you would first have to apply for a Non Imm O Visa, before you are able to apply again for the 1-year extension.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Peter Denis

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

When the application for a 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O Visa is refused and there are no options left to meet the financial requirements anymore (e.g. you slipped under the 800K/400K tresshold when using the money-in-bank method or you did not transfer 65K in every single preceding 12 month or your local IO refuses to handle your application because the due date of your permission to stay expired), then you only have 2 options left:

1 - Using an agent to circumvent the issue;

2 - Exiting Thailand which means 'starting from scratch again' - as you would first have to apply for a Non Imm O Visa, before you are able to apply again for the 1-year extension.

Actually it's easier to 'start from scratch' as you're not required to have a years transfers if using the income method. You could also get away with not keeping 400k (out of the 800k) in the bank for all year.

 

It would make more sense to alternate a 90 day non 'O' with a 1 year extension ... then you'd only ever need to show 3 months of FTT's.

 

I exit Thailand every 90 days anyway (border closures allowing), how is getting a new non 'o' a problem?

Edited June 4, 2020 by BritManToo

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Actually it's easier to 'start from scratch' as you're not required to have a years transfers if using the income method. You could also get away with not keeping 400k (out of the 800k) in the bank for all year.

 

It would make more sense to alternate a 90 day non 'O' with a 1 year extension ... then you'd only ever need to show 3 months of FTT's.

 

I exit Thailand every 90 days anyway (border closures allowing), how is getting a new non 'o' a problem?

What you write is correct. 

In my original post to which you reacted, I only stated (correctly) that when your application for a 1-year extension from your Non Imm O Visa is refused and there is no way to fix it, that you would need to exit the country and that you then have to go through the initial Non Imm O Visa application before you can apply again for a 1-year extension.

And yes, if you stay in Thailand on a 1-year MultipleEntry marriage or retirement Visa issued by a thai consulate abroad, there is no need to apply for 1-year extensions at your local IO.

 

[BritManToo]

14 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

then have to go through the initial Non Imm O Visa application before you can apply again for a 1-year extension.

Non O application ....... 1 form, 5 photocopies, $80, 5 minutes drop off, 5 minutes collect.

Extension application ........ 5 forms, 75 photocopies, landlord attendance, bank letters, 800k in bank, photographs, original documents from multiple addresses, $60, about 6 hours over at least 2 visits.

 

Guess which one i do?

Edited June 4, 2020 by BritManToo

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Non O application ....... 1 form, 4 photocopies, $80.

Extension application ........ 5 forms, 75 photocopies, landlord attendance, bank letters, 800k in bank, photographs, original documents from multiple addresses, $60.

 

Guess which one i do?

Yes, if you don't want to face the hassle some thai IOs impose on you when applying for a 1-year extension of stay of your Non Imm O Visa, then applying for a 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O marriage or retirement Visa at a thai consulate in a neighboring country is the way to go.

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Non O application ....... 1 form, 5 photocopies, $80, 5 minutes drop off, 5 minutes collect.

Extension application ........ 5 forms, 75 photocopies, landlord attendance, bank letters, 800k in bank, photographs, original documents from multiple addresses, $60, about 6 hours over at least 2 visits.

 

Guess which one i do?

Also add: Verbal abuse of your wife, home-visit inspection, and rejection for "undocumented requirements," even if willing to be subjected to all the above.

 

  

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Actually it's easier to 'start from scratch' as you're not required to have a years transfers if using the income method.

A recent report indicates at least one office inistted on 12 mo xfers from a person who just moved here, arriving on a Non-O single-entry visa, and had the income-proof for "only" 4 months.

Edited June 4, 2020 by JackThompson

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

...

A recent report indicates at least one office inistted on 12 mo xfers from a person who just moved here, arriving on a Non-O single-entry visa, and had the income-proof for "only" 4 months.

That's outrageous!

The immigration officer he dealt with must have been the local Village Idiot.

A quick call to the Immigration helpline 1178 or asking to talk to a higher-ranking officer should have solved the issue.

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Also add: Verbal abuse of your wife, home-visit inspection, and rejection for "undocumented requirements," even if willing to be subjected to all the above.

No verbal abuse of my wife. Never a home visit. No unexpected documents. That is when doing 12 extensions based upon marriage.

You apparently just had a bad experience for some unknown reason. I understand some offices can be difficult but not near as bad as you always describe.

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

No verbal abuse of my wife. Never a home visit. No unexpected documents. That is when doing 12 extensions based upon marriage.

You apparently just had a bad experience for some unknown reason. I understand some offices can be difficult but not near as bad as you always describe.

I had all the bad stuff ....... Chiang Mai Immigration every time.

They were far worse than JT ever posted.

[fondue zoo]

I guess they will hold off making an announcement until they know what the bordering countries have planned, for the general opening of their borders to one and all.

[Inderpland]

On 6/3/2020 at 10:45 AM, JackThompson said:

Do we know if they will add 60 to the date of application?  In other words, will they add 60 to the "auotmatic covid extension"? 

 

I already used my 60 before the July 31 rule (blocked by "undocumented requirements" for the 1-year), so doesn't help me - but even if I had not used that 60-day, I would not count on this being an option.

I have a 1 year Non-O based on marriage. Are you saying that we're only allowed one single 60 day extension of stay for the purpose of visiting wife per 1 year visa?

Edited June 4, 2020 by Inderpland

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, Inderpland said:

I have a 1 year Non-O based on marriage. Are you saying that we're only allowed one single 60 day extension of stay for the purpose of visiting wife per 1 year visa?

Yes, you can only apply once per entry for the 60-day extension for reason of visiting your wife.

So when you are on a 1-year MultiEntry Non Imm O marriage Visa, you can apply for the 60-day extension at the end of the 90-day permission to stay you received when entering the country.

But you can do this only once for each entry.

So after 90 + 60 days, you will need to exit the country (or apply for the 1-year extension of stay at your local IO).

 

[PST]

10 minutes ago, Inderpland said:

I have a 1 year Non-O based on marriage. Are you saying that we're only allowed one single 60 day extension of stay for the purpose of visiting wife per 1 year visa?

Any 90 day entry from your NON O can be extended by 60 days to visit wife/family.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/3/2020 at 2:57 AM, BritTim said:

In my view, most offices will allow an application for a one-year extension of stay (if the conditions are met) but the extended permission to stay will run from when your regular permission to stay ended. I believe the main objective of the automatic extension is to provide a grace period during which people should either apply for a regular extension, or leave the country. However, I suspect the instructions given to immigration officials are probably as ambiguous as those given to foreigners. Very likely, some offices are going to have their own more or less irrational interpretation of the rules.

I strongly suggest using an agent, if only this one time. Agents have a knack of overcoming those irrational rule interpretations.

[Peter Denis]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I strongly suggest using an agent, if only this one time. Agents have a knack of overcoming those irrational rule interpretations.

I would not suggest using an agent for a normal Visa application or extension of it.

Just visit your local IO and enquire if they have any additional requirements or differing interpretations from the IO regulations for your case.

When stuck or alternative solutions too cumbersome to circumvent any problems you might encounter, only then I would recommend using an agent as a solution of the last resort.

Note: Obviously there is nothing wrong when you only use an agent to do the 'legwork' for you without any fixes.  A fix would also cost you more as these involve some tea-money for the officer handling your application that needs to bypass the office's normal rules.

 

[drbeach]

On 6/3/2020 at 10:45 AM, JackThompson said:

Do we know if they will add 60 to the date of application?  In other words, will they add 60 to the "auotmatic covid extension"? 

 

I already used my 60 before the July 31 rule (blocked by "undocumented requirements" for the 1-year), so doesn't help me - but even if I had not used that 60-day, I would not count on this being an option.

  

Note that "meeting the requirements for a 1 year extension" includes whatever "unpublished requirements" they tack on.  Many of us are on Multi-Non-Os ONLY because of the "unpublished requirements," to spite meeting every "official requirement" to the letter.

 

Anyone wanting to avail themselves of a 1-year extension should apply ASAP, and find out what the full rule-set is at their office at present.  They seem to have periodic meetings to determine if envelope-money revenue is sufficient, and change the "unpublished requirements" to suit.

In that case, why not just pay an agent? This is the system in most neighboring countries. I wouldn't have an issue with handing an agent 15000 Baht provided he/she can work their magic in my favor.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, drbeach said:

In that case, why not just pay an agent? This is the system in most neighboring countries. I wouldn't have an issue with handing an agent 15000 Baht provided he/she can work their magic in my favor.

Non-O Married (I work w/ work-permit) is 35K in Chiang Wattana.  Agents won't touch it - only "law firms."  Marriage cost more apparently, as they require another envolope for the District Level sign-off.  If Non-O for retirement, the local office sign-off is enough.  They make many extra problems, if you are in a committed relationship supporting a Thai family.

Edited June 4, 2020 by JackThompson