Video of Floyd's death offers clues into ex-Minneapolis officers' possible defense, say legal experts

[i84teen]

52 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

don't forget he had Coronavirus too. This makes a mess of the protocol of attributing cause of death to be Coronavirus for everybody that tested positive for it. So either the rules need to be changed for coronavirus death tallies, or this was not murder. Tough one isn't it!!

 

As per Dr Birx's statement "Right now ... if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death."

https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/85925

Refer to the autopsy report which states the cause of death and is classified as a homicide.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by i84teen

[animalmagic]

19 minutes ago, Canuck1966 said:

How can such a liberal place allow such a police officer to continue to work? This has been a Dem's stronghold for decades

The political affiliation of the place is irrelevant and I never said what type of cop the accused is.  My paragraph on investigating police officers was to show the necessity of examining thoroughly any officer with multiple complaints.  Your continued liberal and Dem bashing is irrelevant to me as I have no political input with the USA.

[riclag]

So two things come to the fore front, due process for the cops and justice for George.

Imop Justice will come,due process not so much.

what justice or due process comes from the destruction that resulted from george’s Death 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by riclag

[transam]

14 minutes ago, teatime101 said:

He looks like a good person and a good cop sitting with black kids and sharing lunch with them. Anybody who thinks all cops are bad is an idiot. OK. are you defending bad cops because 'reasons'?

 

It seems like quite a few here are looking for reasons to defend what looks very much like an intention to kill a man, or at least complete indifference to the strong likelihood of his dying.

I can't fathom the motivation to defend it, other than racism and/or politics.

You are wrong, folk are trashing all police because of this incident...And chap, if anyone wanted to kill this bloke it would not be done so you/we could watch it...Yes/No...?

[i84teen]

5 minutes ago, riclag said:

So two things come to the fore front, due process for the cops and justice for George.

Imop Justice will come,due process not so much

By "due process not so much" do you imply that the process may be slanted and/or manipulated to the accused' (D Chauvin) benefit?

[riclag]

11 minutes ago, i84teen said:

By "due process not so much" do you imply that the process may be slanted and/or manipulated to the accused' (D Chauvin) benefit?

The  knee cop status is a done deal.His deeds have been witnessed by video  .Everyone has already convicted him.Unless of course more evidence comes in

[teatime101]

1 hour ago, transam said:

You are wrong, folk are trashing all police because of this incident...And chap, if anyone wanted to kill this bloke it would not be done so you/we could watch it...Yes/No...?

One unsupported assertion and one assumption. Neither worth the trouble to refute.

Edited June 5, 2020 by teatime101

[Proboscis]

9 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

There apparently is an attempt to sacrifice some of these officers that didn't really deserve to be, AFAIC. Maybe there are "systemic" issues other than the racism claimed by what amounts to a lynch mob? I hope the all get fair trials.

The trouble is that seeing the various videos made of the incident, you cannot but be impressed by the fact that you are watching an immobile man on his face in the dirt being killed while calling for his mother.

 

The difference is that now people are not afraid to video everything. Now we get to see what actually went on. If no video, we would be told that the victim had struggled and the officer had been in fear of his life.

 

An interesting interview with a Chief of Police from Texas a few days ago indicated that the Police Union is just too powerful now. She had tried to discipline officers during her time but it was always overturned when the police union got involved - small jurisdictions don't want to face lawsuits. The police chief cannot discipline officers. And as we saw, the local prosecutors do not want to prosecute officers no matter what they have done.

 

Incidentally, the officer who was ultimately charged with second degree murder in the Floyd case had no less than 17 prior complaints made against him. He should not have been a police officer.

[tribalfusion001]

Chauvin is going down for a very long time and the other three will get shorter sentences. If all four get off and not convicted, then the USA will burn from coast to coast.

 

From what I can see is that this issue is just dviding the USA even more and that is what Trump wants, divide and rule, play to his evengelical gun toting morons. I was reading some articles today and the vigilante mobs standing around with their AR15 assault rifles, seriously why does anyone need an assault rifle when your not in the military.

[Deli]

Cops did their job and hopefully walk away cleared.

The lefties and mob will riot again; just hope they get the right respense.

[somtamgaiyang]

9 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Do you have a citation to back up your claim that the 4 officers did not know of Floyd's violent criminal past? As we know, Chauvin actually worked the door at the same nightclub that Floyd did, so the likelihood these 2 knew of each other is high. I suspect as a career criminal Floyd was very well known to local police and stores. Every town has such characters.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/derek-chauvin-nightclub-george-floyd-security-shifts-el-nuevo-rodeo-minneapolis/

I've read several reports. The owner of that club said they probably did not know each other. Floyd worked inside, Chauvin worked outside with other cops. Maybe it is a large club but she clearly said she believed they did not know each other.

[Purdey]

I was just following orders was an excuse kicked out of court at the Nuremberg trials. I doubt it holds water today.

Whether the victim had a record seems irrelevant unless they knew his record (did he have an outstanding arrest warrant?) and slung him in the back of the car.

 

[tribalfusion001]

6 minutes ago, Deli said:

Cops did their job and hopefully walk away cleared.

The lefties and mob will riot again; just hope they get the right respense.

Lol, is murder part of the job description now for American policeman.

[animalmagic]

6 minutes ago, Deli said:

Cops did their job and hopefully walk away cleared.

The lefties and mob will riot again; just hope they get the right respense.

You really can't be serious?  You claim the cops did their job and hope they walk away cleared!

As soon as a cop puts the handcuffs on any person they become responsible for the safety of that person.  When a cop hears someone crying for help because they can't breathe it is their job to respond and save that person's life.

[Mick501]

10 hours ago, Kelsall said:

If any of these men get off, it will be like the Rodney King situation.  They will be brought up and convicted on federal charges.

They will very likely either get off or get light sentences because there are quite extreme mitigating circumstances.  A known violent offender, behaving erratically and on drugs.  It was certainly reasonable to use some force to ensure their safety.  The crowd encroaching only exacerbates the potential for injury to the cops.  

 

Additionally, the riots show just how real the dangers are to police.  It is not imagined or overstated.

 

it also appears there was an underlying medical condition.  Whilst not a legal defence, it is a mitigating factor in sentencing.  

 

It seems a knee jerk reaction to charge all 3 of the others present, given their attention was clearly elsewhere.  

 

In short, plenty of defences and mitigation for all concerned.  I'm not condoning what happened, but in terms of objective seriousness it is not nearly as severe as the murder of police and other people during the riots.  Very likely there would be more riots when acquittals or sentences come in.  The same agitators will certainly be out in force again.

 

as for federal charges, what would you suggest?  Wouldn't double jeopardy apply?

 

 

[J Town]

6 minutes ago, Mick501 said:

It seems a knee jerk reaction to charge all 3 of the others present, given their attention was clearly elsewhere.

 

 

If you believe that then you didn't see the video, all four watching that man being killed.

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, Mick501 said:

They will very likely either get off or get light sentences because there are quite extreme mitigating circumstances.  A known violent offender, behaving erratically and on drugs.  It was certainly reasonable to use some force to ensure their safety.  The crowd encroaching only exacerbates the potential for injury to the cops.  

 

Additionally, the riots show just how real the dangers are to police.  It is not imagined or overstated.

 

it also appears there was an underlying medical condition.  Whilst not a legal defence, it is a mitigating factor in sentencing.  

 

It seems a knee jerk reaction to charge all 3 of the others present, given their attention was clearly elsewhere.  

 

In short, plenty of defences and mitigation for all concerned.  I'm not condoning what happened, but in terms of objective seriousness it is not nearly as severe as the murder of police and other people during the riots.  Very likely there would be more riots when acquittals or sentences come in.  The same agitators will certainly be out in force again.

 

as for federal charges, what would you suggest?  Wouldn't double jeopardy apply?

 

 

Objective seriousness, don't know what it is, but objectivity would be good, unfortunately it is completely absent from your post.

[tribalfusion001]

18 minutes ago, Mick501 said:

They will very likely either get off or get light sentences because there are quite extreme mitigating circumstances.  A known violent offender, behaving erratically and on drugs.  It was certainly reasonable to use some force to ensure their safety.  The crowd encroaching only exacerbates the potential for injury to the cops. 

 

It was murder caught on camera, the USA is 100% messed up place.

[EVENKEEL]

I believe the last 3 cops are being indicted to pacify the BLM crowd. I don't believe they'll do time and the Union will request them to be reinstated.

[Billthekiwi]

The law is the law. If they get off because the state failed prove culpability then it will also fail at federal level.

 

The law is essentially the same for both. The only benefit of a federal charge is where it is obvious that the state went against the evidence presented.

[tribalfusion001]

7 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I believe the last 3 cops are being indicted to pacify the BLM crowd. I don't believe they'll do time and the Union will request them to be reinstated.

They could have stopped Chauvin instead of letting him carry on.

[Opl]

10 minutes ago, Billthekiwi said:

The law is the law. If they get off because the state failed prove culpability then it will also fail at federal level.

 

The law is essentially the same for both. The only benefit of a federal charge is where it is obvious that the state went against the evidence presented.

and what about the "Good Samaritan Law" and " Duty to Rescue"? 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Opl

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, tribalfusion001 said:

They could have stopped Chauvin instead of letting him carry on.

This has been argued to death, the 3 cops will have cases dismissed and possibly reinstated.

[Phil McCaverty]

1 minute ago, Billthekiwi said:

Does look as though he tripped to me. They called for a medic and it seems the report left that part out.

 

Not much here to see seems to me. Which part of playing with fire leaves out the bit about being burned?

Unbelievable. Words fail me.

[tribalfusion001]

1 minute ago, Billthekiwi said:

Does look as though he tripped to me. They called for a medic and it seems the report left that part out.

 

Not much here to see seems to me. Which part of playing with fire leaves out the bit about being burned?

Pushed away, stumbles backwards and falls over, unless I'm blind or a Trump supporter there is no trip.

[riclag]

35 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I believe the last 3 cops are being indicted to pacify the BLM crowd. I don't believe they'll do time and the Union will request them to be reinstated.

If they(Minnesota atty general) ,change the charge to 1 st degree murder ,as some want with a life sentence ,do you think this will be justice enough for the majority of protestors who have shown their anger for the knee cop?

[Billthekiwi]

1 minute ago, Phil McCaverty said:

Wrong. He was a 75 year old white guy, peacefully protesting.

Nothing racist there then...

 

If he wanted to be on the front lines disobeying lawful instructions then he expected trouble. It found him.

 

If you are not obeying instructions you are not being peaceful.

[billd766]

11 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

There apparently is an attempt to sacrifice some of these officers that didn't really deserve to be, AFAIC. Maybe there are "systemic" issues other than the racism claimed by what amounts to a lynch mob? I hope the all get fair trials.

The same sort of "justice" that George Floyd received perhaps? 

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. 

 

Off topic posts and replies about an incident in Buffalo have been removed,  this topic is about:

 

Video of Floyd's death offers clues into ex-Minneapolis officers' possible defense, say legal experts

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, Mick501 said:

It seems a knee jerk reaction to charge all 3 of the others present, given their attention was clearly elsewhere.  

 

it's easy enough to google the specifics of the murder:

 

According to the charges filed against against the officers, Lane and Kueng helped Chauvin hold Floyd down while Thao stood nearby.

Floyd told the officers, “I can’t breathe” multiple times. He repeatedly said “mama” and “please" and said, "I'm about to die", but the officers did not move from their positions.

At one point, Lane asked, “Should we roll him on his side?” and Chauvin said no. Floyd eventually appeared to stop breathing or speaking. Kueng checked his pulse and found none, but none of the officers moved until the ambulance arrived a few minutes later.

 

https://q13fox.com/2020/06/03/3-other-minneapolis-police-officers-charged-in-george-floyds-death-chauvin-charges-upgraded/