Video of Floyd's death offers clues into ex-Minneapolis officers' possible defense, say legal experts

[jimmybcool]

No matter where you stand on what happened I think we can agree it will be interesting times if some of these officers are not convicted of anything.  And I believe there is a good chance the state is overstepping with some of these charges.  

 

Should be interesting if they defund their police and then have a reaction from not guilty to any of these four.  

 

 

[EVENKEEL]

3 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

No matter where you stand on what happened I think we can agree it will be interesting times if some of these officers are not convicted of anything.  And I believe there is a good chance the state is overstepping with some of these charges.  

 

Should be interesting if they defund their police and then have a reaction from not guilty to any of these four.  

 

 

It would be a great social experiment if they defund the MPD. Criminals are waiting for this as well I'm sure.

Can't wait to see how caring and compassionate social workers defend the citizens.

[4MyEgo]

On 6/5/2020 at 9:57 AM, scorecard said:

OK their lawyers are going to try anything to get them cleared, usual stuff.

 

However seems to me they had a duty to monitor whats' happening to the arrested person, and a duty to speak up if they have any concern about overuse of force of whatever, to monitor that they (all of them) are operating with the law and speak up if they have concerns, and monitor what's happening around them*.

 

(*In regard to the last point, in the videos i've seen doesn't seem to be any indication there is any threat at all to any of the 3 cops from bystanders etc.)

 

IMHO if a cop can't do all of that he/she shouldn't be a cop. 

 

On 6/5/2020 at 9:24 AM, webfact said:

They said Kueng will likely try to argue he was unaware of the extent of the force that Chauvin was using and could not determine Floyd's condition until it was too late.

 

Both Kueng and Lane were relatively junior officers, which also could work in their favor.

 

"They will say they weren't willing to go against the chain of command," said Joseph Friedberg, a defense attorney.

I have know 3 cops back in Sydney Australia, you would think a relatively quiet place compared to the USA, where 150 odd cops got killed in 2018 according to a quick Google research.

 

From the stories I have heard from these 3 cops when I knew them and seen other cops in action, these 3 cops left the force due to stress related issues with the job, the 1st one was within 3 years, the 2nd 10 years and the 3rd, a sergeant was put on leave indefinitely, he was in the force for 35 years, I would say they were looking after him till he retires, rightfully so IMO.

 

The above said, it appears to of the officers were juniors, that says a lot, and not wanting to go against a senior cop is understandable, after all, they have your back and teach you the ropes, so if you want to survive, you watch, listen and learn, that said, not suggesting for a minute he was in the right, far from it, he clearly used excess force which wasn't required and will pay for his service to the community.

 

I would be a cop if you paid me $10,000 a week even $20,000 a week for that matter, the odds are against you as society has changed from when I was a kid, let's remember these cops are here to protect us, do we hear how many times they get assaulted, stabbed, shot, etc, etc, etc all for being in the line of duty to protect.

 

I would imagine after a while on the job and seeing what you see and knowing one F up and your life is over, you take no chances and treat everyone the same, it's you or me ?

 

I have nothing against blacks or anyone else for that matter, but let me ask you something, when a white cops gets killed or a white man gets killed by a cop, do we see riots, do we see shops being cleaned out by rioters, do we see violence from the whites.

 

Like I said, I am not saying what this cop did was right and he will learn from his over reaction, however I don't believe for a moment he knew he was sending this guy to his grave, a huge mistake on his part, the price he will pay, however they will hang him out to dry, as for the other cops, they will be let off, and reinstated in the force, but will resign as they would have seen first hand how quick a situtation turns.

 

Like I said, I wouldn't be a cop no matter how much money you throw at me, because being a cop today vs when cops where cops back in the day is a totally different ball game, back then you had respect, these days they are just a number in a uniform from where the public sees them, and will hang them out to dry quick smart, but when the s-h-i-t- happens, who they going to call.......911

 

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by 4MyEgo

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I have know 3 cops back in Sydney Australia, you would think a relatively quiet place compared to the USA, where 150 odd cops got killed in 2018 according to a quick Google research.

 

From the stories I have heard from these 3 cops when I knew them and seen other cops in action, these 3 cops left the force due to stress related issues with the job, the 1st one was within 3 years, the 2nd 10 years and the 3rd, a sergeant was put on leave indefinitely, he was in the force for 35 years, I would say they were looking after him till he retires, rightfully so IMO.

 

The above said, it appears to of the officers were juniors, that says a lot, and not wanting to go against a senior cop is understandable, after all, they have your back and teach you the ropes, so if you want to survive, you watch, listen and learn, that said, not suggesting for a minute he was in the right, far from it, he clearly used excess force which wasn't required and will pay for his service to the community.

 

I would be a cop if you paid me $10,000 a week even $20,000 a week for that matter, the odds are against you as society has changed from when I was a kid, let's remember these cops are here to protect us, do we hear how many times they get assaulted, stabbed, shot, etc, etc, etc all for being in the line of duty to protect.

 

I would imagine after a while on the job and seeing what you see and knowing one F up and your life is over, you take no chances and treat everyone the same, it's you or me ?

 

I have nothing against blacks or anyone else for that matter, but let me ask you something, when a white cops gets killed or a white man gets killed by a cop, do we see riots, do we see shops being cleaned out by rioters, do we see violence from the whites.

 

Like I said, I am not saying what this cop did was right and he will learn from his over reaction, however I don't believe for a moment he knew he was sending this guy to his grave, a huge mistake on his part, the price he will pay, however they will hang him out to dry, as for the other cops, they will be let off, and reinstated in the force, but will resign as they would have seen first hand how quick a situtation turns.

 

Like I said, I wouldn't be a cop no matter how much money you throw at me, because being a cop today vs when cops where cops back in the day is a totally different ball game, back then you had respect, these days they are just a number in a uniform from where the public sees them, and will hang them out to dry quick smart, but when the s-h-i-t- happens, who they going to call.......911

 

 

"I have nothing against blacks or anyone else for that matter, but let me ask you something, when a white cops gets killed or a white man gets killed by a cop, do we see riots, do we see shops being cleaned out by rioters, do we see violence from the whites."

 

You make some good points, but sadly enough you contradict yourself. 

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I have know 3 cops back in Sydney Australia, you would think a relatively quiet place compared to the USA, where 150 odd cops got killed in 2018 according to a quick Google research.

 

From the stories I have heard from these 3 cops when I knew them and seen other cops in action, these 3 cops left the force due to stress related issues with the job, the 1st one was within 3 years, the 2nd 10 years and the 3rd, a sergeant was put on leave indefinitely, he was in the force for 35 years, I would say they were looking after him till he retires, rightfully so IMO.

 

The above said, it appears to of the officers were juniors, that says a lot, and not wanting to go against a senior cop is understandable, after all, they have your back and teach you the ropes, so if you want to survive, you watch, listen and learn, that said, not suggesting for a minute he was in the right, far from it, he clearly used excess force which wasn't required and will pay for his service to the community.

 

I would be a cop if you paid me $10,000 a week even $20,000 a week for that matter, the odds are against you as society has changed from when I was a kid, let's remember these cops are here to protect us, do we hear how many times they get assaulted, stabbed, shot, etc, etc, etc all for being in the line of duty to protect.

 

I would imagine after a while on the job and seeing what you see and knowing one F up and your life is over, you take no chances and treat everyone the same, it's you or me ?

 

I have nothing against blacks or anyone else for that matter, but let me ask you something, when a white cops gets killed or a white man gets killed by a cop, do we see riots, do we see shops being cleaned out by rioters, do we see violence from the whites.

 

Like I said, I am not saying what this cop did was right and he will learn from his over reaction, however I don't believe for a moment he knew he was sending this guy to his grave, a huge mistake on his part, the price he will pay, however they will hang him out to dry, as for the other cops, they will be let off, and reinstated in the force, but will resign as they would have seen first hand how quick a situtation turns.

 

Like I said, I wouldn't be a cop no matter how much money you throw at me, because being a cop today vs when cops where cops back in the day is a totally different ball game, back then you had respect, these days they are just a number in a uniform from where the public sees them, and will hang them out to dry quick smart, but when the s-h-i-t- happens, who they going to call.......911

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

I quoted the above post mainly so others who didn't read before will do so now. It's pretty good.

[4MyEgo]

25 minutes ago, stevenl said:

"I have nothing against blacks or anyone else for that matter, but let me ask you something, when a white cops gets killed or a white man gets killed by a cop, do we see riots, do we see shops being cleaned out by rioters, do we see violence from the whites."

 

You make some good points, but sadly enough you contradict yourself. 

How does one contradict oneself by stating facts ?

 

Ask yourself this, do you recall seeing any riots in the UK when two black guys slayed a white soldier with a machetti in public ?

 

I call a spade a spade, If you think I don't contradict myself, then you don't see a spade as a spade as I do.

[buick]

i'm not sure if this is the best analogy, but there have been several airplane crashes in history where the junior co-pilot is intimidated by the senior pilot.  and therefore is reluctant to speak up when he/she thinks the pilot is doing or has done something wrong.  then the plane crashes and everyone is dead.  i watch alot of air crash investigation on national geographic !!

 

some articles reference the first two guys on scene as 'junior officers' but the attorney statements i read indicated that lane had been working 4 days and keung was on his third shift, i don't know if they'd worked for other police forces somewhere.  assuming these guys are literally right out of the police academy, i can't see a jury coming to a unanimous decision on any serious charge for these guys (not murder, not manslaugther).  and if convicted of lesser crime(s) the judge will decide the sentence and could be very lenient.

 

the two rookies didn't seem to show any racism, malice, or brutality towards floyd before the kneeler showed up. they suspected he may have passed counterfeit money and suspected that he may be under the influence of drugs and he was sitting in the driver's seat of the car (so possible DUI).   they got floyd out of the car, got him handcuffed, sat him down, tried to get him in the police SUV, and floyd was not making it easy for them to get him in there.  they could of started to beat on him right then.  but they didn't.  things got out of hand once the kneeler showed up and he was a 17 year veteran and training officer.  it sure seems like the rookies just took a back seat at that point.  intimidation can be a strong thing. 

 

edit:  judging by the actions of the kneeler, i'm going to guess intimidation was a big part of his game.  both on the job and off the job.  the guy is real mental case.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by buick

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

not suggesting for a minute he was in the right, far from it, he clearly used excess force which wasn't required

Depends on his training. If that was an approved method of subduing a violent arrestee he is not guilty of anything other than manslaughter.

 

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

when the s-h-i-t- happens, who they going to call.......911

Exactly. Bunch of hypocrites accusing the cops of al being bad. If they hate the cops so much don't call the cops when it all goes wrong.

[thaibeachlovers]

26 minutes ago, buick said:

the guy is real mental case.

How would YOU be after 17 years of dealing with the worst of humans day in day out and not knowing if every day on the job was going to be your last?

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

How would YOU be after 17 years of dealing with the worst of humans day in day out and not knowing if every day on the job was going to be your last?

Completely right. Policing the 'hood has got to be one of the most stressful jobs there is. Floyd, a much bigger man than the cops, who then resisted arrest -- what are your options? I guess a baton to the head was forbidden, based on previous actions (and reactions). So, if the knee option had not been forbidden, at least prior to this current situation, maybe that's all you're left with.... (Ok, what's the next restraining option the cops will now be allowed to use....?).

 

In the future? Heck, let him walk around the 'hood. If he strays into the civilized part of town -- monitor accordingly, as he'll be noted as a "not belong,"; if required to take him down, the bystanders, at least the neighborhood residents, will applaud, not riot. Meanwhile, back in the hood, use black cops to patrol; much harder to use the race card in this situation.

Edited June 8, 2020 by JimGant

[pkspeaker]

On 6/5/2020 at 7:21 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

White Americans also get a raw deal from the cops, but no one ever seems to go out rioting every time a white guy gets killed by them.

Seems to me the real reason this is so ramped up is for political reasons, and we all ( I hope ) know what those political reasons are.

It's gone from a local police action to a nationwide ( and even world wide ) attack on Trump. Far as I know he wasn't in the vicinity at the time.

 

daniel shaver