Non -o- Renewal Denied, No Change To My Situation.

[Tony Clifton]

Contacting the Embassy was suggested by a lawyer following the ''business days'' issue which he says is wrongly interpreted by the office staff who seem to have no understanding that closing down for holidays does not count as a business day.

I guess if we are lucky with the embassy, they may have contacts at Suan Plu and get things rolling again.

Wife has decided to have next week off work now so we can move around freely as things further develop.

I may have forgotten to mention previously that the money has been in the account by now for more than the required period, our original mistake.

Does it mean that maybe it would be worth it to go direct to San Phiu and plead your case if you have the money and account papers in order ?

There would be no need for them to loose face as it would be a new application ?

Or is it already too late ?

I don't think it is too late. The fact that the Songkran holiday and offices closed during that period may help. Also the loss of face at the other office will be avoided.

We are waiting to see if anything will happen this afternoon, it was already too late today to drive up to BKK and try anything. If nothing happens, I intend to start over at Suan Plu first thing Monday morning. If all else fails, off to Sing-a- Poh.

How I admire my wife for her patience, courage and professionalism throughout this ordeal, already very busy with her full-time job ad our own growing business.

[sriracha john]

Consistency is inconsistent...

[blizzard]

i know what you mean john.

first he makes his wife seem kind of nutty, black money and everything.

and now he admires her patience courage,etc.

Edited April 20, 2007 by blizzard

[sriracha john]

Actually I was referring to a different post... sorry for not making it clearer...

this is how my post should have appeared:

Actually, it's not just each office but can be each individual. The luck of the draw! Let's play Renewal Roulette!

Last year I took my paperwork in on a Monday and was denied the extension. On Friday of the same week I submitted the SAME paperwork to a different imm. officer and presto! it was approved.

Nothing like making you sweat a bit......as if it's not hot enough here already!

Consistency is inconsistent...

Having the privilege of knowing Mrs. Tony, she is indeed patient, courageous, and professional.

[Tony Clifton]

i know what you mean john.

first he makes his wife seem kind of nutty, black money and everything.

and now he admires her patience courage,etc.

Thank you for your incomprehension, unconstructive and unhelpful comment. Her full-time job in the private sector requires her to deal with govt. officers on a regular basis and could teach us all quite a few tricks, believe me, she is quite the contortionist when it comes to dealing with these people. She DID NOT propose black money but politely and discretely asked if that was what was messing up the process. Had it been so, no further discussions would have gone on and we`d be in Singapore at this very moment.

Latest news from high up at the Embassy, nothing can be done, there has apparently been a recent change with the laws which I don`t remember already.

We may try once more at Suan Plu Monday morning and explain the situation, a few more hours that could save us a whole lot of time and money, if that fails, off the long way to Singapore.

[soundman]

i know what you mean john.

first he makes his wife seem kind of nutty, black money and everything.

and now he admires her patience courage,etc.

Thank you for your incomprehension, unconstructive and unhelpful comment. Her full-time job in the private sector requires her to deal with govt. officers on a regular basis and could teach us all quite a few tricks, believe me, she is quite the contortionist when it comes to dealing with these people. She DID NOT propose black money but politely and discretely asked if that was what was messing up the process. Had it been so, no further discussions would have gone on and we`d be in Singapore at this very moment.

Latest news from high up at the Embassy, nothing can be done, there has apparently been a recent change with the laws which I don`t remember already.

We may try once more at Suan Plu Monday morning and explain the situation, a few more hours that could save us a whole lot of time and money, if that fails, off the long way to Singapore.

Just wishing you the best of luck with it TC. Whatever happens, can you pls. report back. I, for one, am in a very similar situation to yourself, & have to go back to "get result" in a couple of weeks time.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[Tony Clifton]

I will for sure.

[blizzard]

it kind of makes me glad that people who have connection are not getting what they want. it would make us who have NO connection feel kind of left out in this land of smiles.

hey be fair here , it wasnt i who said your wife broke down in tears. im sure you meant tears of joy in dealing with the process she had to go thru.

singapores a great place.

Edited April 20, 2007 by blizzard

[Tony Clifton]

it kind of makes me glad that people who have connection are not getting what they want. it would make us who have NO connection feel kind of left out in this land of smiles.

hey be fair here , it wasnt i who said your wife broke down in tears. im sure you meant tears of joy in dealing with the process she had to go thru.

singapores a great place.

We don't have connections, someone offered.

As I suspected, it changed nothing. I thought maybe, a big maybe, there was a slight chance that someone may take a second look at the case without causing any waves with the people first involved. We may try that at Suan Plu Monday morning (yet to be discussed with my wife) but, as mentioned above, we want no repercussions elsewhere down the chain. If it would indeed cause others to lose face, we're out of there and headed to Suwarnhabhumi on the next flight.

I sort of feel the same way you do when someone mentions getting his way by paying a bribe. Something We DO NOT support because it only helps in messing things up even more for everyone of us idown the road.

[marshbags]

I will for sure.

Good luck T.C and please, no matter how tempting it may be " stay cool " for future reference.

Regarding the P.Res., as Lopburi says the qualifications for getting it, along with only a chosen few being successful according to information i was given, it may not be such an easy way to go in any case.

Take care if you have to travel and enjoy the enforced time together while you have the chance and come back safely.

marshbags

[lopburi3]

Believe the larger loss is grandfather status using 400k bank deposit as on new visa entry the requirement will be 40k family income. So if the 400k is important do make a case in Bangkok Monday. I believe they are also open Saturday morning but you would need to confirm that on 1111 first.

[Tony Clifton]

Officers grimaced when we mentioned permanent residency and then went on to explain the procedure and the hardest part, according to them, dealing with the policemen then involved

Thanks all, more next week.

Marshbags, along awaited week of fishing and boating around up north last week has made me veeery cool. No worries as I want to go back again.

[marshbags]

it kind of makes me glad that people who have connection are not getting what they want. it would make us who have NO connection feel kind of left out in this land of smiles.

hey be fair here , it wasnt i who said your wife broke down in tears. im sure you meant tears of joy in dealing with the process she had to go thru.

singapores a great place.

Verbal Diarrhoea comes to mind.

How much nicer to say there was a mis judgement on interpretation instead of digging your shit hole deeper, with additional snide remarks.

marshbags

[Tony Clifton]

Believe the larger loss is grandfather status using 400k bank deposit as on new visa entry the requirement will be 40k family income. So if the 400k is important do make a case in Bangkok Monday. I believe they are also open Saturday morning but you would need to confirm that on 1111 first.

Ohhh, you do have a point here, see, I'd already forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder! That's what was explained to her this very afternoon. I'll have to mention that to her tonight and see if maybe we should bring her tax receipts along as well, better safe than sorry when all the way in Singapore. The 400, 000 may do as well. Frankly , I'm more confused over it all now , thought I'd be angry, as in '' uncool''.

If needed now, my wife would be covering the 40 k a month with her present full-time job, althgough she has submitted her resignation for the end of mMayand will then be considered self-employed/owner? through our own company. It will be time to figure out how that can apply with the visa renewal next year, and, give us ample time to figure out company requirements for a work permit for me.

Never a boring day 'round here!

[Tony Clifton]

Just discussed briefly with my wife about Going to Suan Plu on Monday morning. Useless she says as once the visa was denied, my case has been closed permanently. New application only.

She mentioned that when applying again, we do have a choice between the 40 000k/month income , with tax receipts in hand, or 400, 000 in the bank.

Off to Singapore Sunday then. I've never been there, so it will be a short holiday at the same time.

Tony

[ovenman]

Believe the larger loss is grandfather status using 400k bank deposit as on new visa entry the requirement will be 40k family income. So if the 400k is important do make a case in Bangkok Monday. I believe they are also open Saturday morning but you would need to confirm that on 1111 first.

Ohhh, you do have a point here, see, I'd already forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder!

In his initial response to your original post, Lopburi offered the thought that the authorities are probably looking for any excuse they can find to not grandfather people in under the old rules and make them apply under the new system. It really wouldn't surprise me if that were the case here. Had a similar sort of thing occurred when you did your last visa renewal, the powers-that-be may well have cut you some slack.

[Tony Clifton]

I'll have to discuss this at home further this evening about the 40k/month vs. 400, 000. She did say though this afternoon that as per the new law, which she says she had just downloaded while discussing with embassy staff, there is still the option of choosing either. Again, that probably depends on who is processing and how they interpret the new changes, IF they are actually aware or yet enforcing it abroad.

[sriracha john]

If needed now, my wife would be covering the 40 k a month

I don't think you should discount the amount of baht we'll be bringing with the excess fish from our fishing expeditions. With our prowness, it has the potential to be in the thousands and thousands....

In the interim, there's a good time to be had for you both in Singapore... keep treating it as a vacation instead of a chore.

[Krub]

I'll have to discuss this at home further this evening about the 40k/month vs. 400, 000. She did say though this afternoon that as per the new law, which she says she had just downloaded while discussing with embassy staff, there is still the option of choosing either. Again, that probably depends on who is processing and how they interpret the new changes, IF they are actually aware or yet enforcing it abroad.

Tony,

I think you might want to re-check this as all posts and the text of rules after October 1 points to the fact that new renewals on basis of married to Thai only leaves the option of a 40k baht monthly income and no more the 400k in bank.

A few have reported having being accepted when re-applying with same documents at a different office or at a different officer.

If the 400k is important for you maybe something to consider as you should not have anyhting to loose. If you can meet the 40k then by all means enjoy your few days in Singapore and get a new Non-Im 'O'. Remember that Singapore wants to see evidence of funds to issue Non-Im 'O'.

Good luck

[Bangkok Phil]

I read Tony's original post with great interest because my own non-immigrant O (based on marriage to a Thai) was due for renewal on Friday 20th April. Reading Tony's story did not auger well because I was technically in the same boat. This would actually be my fourth non-immigrant O re-newal and hopefully I was grandfathered under the old system of showing 400K in the bank. I had no intention of showing an income of 40K a month. Most of my investments and the bulk of my money are overseas and that's exactly where they're going to stay.

I had already sounded out the immigration captain a few weeks earlier (when I went to do my 90-day reporting) and asked him what I would need to show in terms of paperwork. Would the immigration desire 400K in the bank or proof of 40K a month income? His reply was a simple 'up to you'

Anyway, I went to immigration yesterday. All my paperwork was photocopied and nicely paper-clipped. I was suited and booted and my wife was dressed in her navy blue business suit. We were in and out of there within 20 minutes with a new non-immigrant O. I was actually impressed with the speed of things and the immigration officer told me that there was a new boss at the helm and he wants things speeded up in terms of customer service. No more of this going back to the office three times for yet another one-month 'under approval' stamp while waiting for the main office at Suan Plu to get their act together.

I will say this though. The officer spent much of the 20 minutes analysing the bank book and the bank letter (which I had in both English and Thai) to make sure that the account and cashflow were kosher. I'm not really sure why - you can see in seconds that the balance is well above the required 400K and has been for the past two years.

On the whole I was very pleased. It was probably the smoothest re-newal I've ever done.

[Krub]

I read Tony's original post with great interest because my own non-immigrant O (based on marriage to a Thai) was due for renewal on Friday 20th April. Reading Tony's story did not auger well because I was technically in the same boat. This would actually be my fourth non-immigrant O re-newal and hopefully I was grandfathered under the old system of showing 400K in the bank. I had no intention of showing an income of 40K a month. Most of my investments and the bulk of my money are overseas and that's exactly where they're going to stay.

I had already sounded out the immigration captain a few weeks earlier (when I went to do my 90-day reporting) and asked him what I would need to show in terms of paperwork. Would the immigration desire 400K in the bank or proof of 40K a month income? His reply was a simple 'up to you'

Anyway, I went to immigration yesterday. All my paperwork was photocopied and nicely paper-clipped. I was suited and booted and my wife was dressed in her navy blue business suit. We were in and out of there within 20 minutes with a new non-immigrant O. I was actually impressed with the speed of things and the immigration officer told me that there was a new boss at the helm and he wants things speeded up in terms of customer service. No more of this going back to the office three times for yet another one-month 'under approval' stamp while waiting for the main office at Suan Plu to get their act together.

I will say this though. The officer spent much of the 20 minutes analysing the bank book and the bank letter (which I had in both English and Thai) to make sure that the account and cashflow were kosher. I'm not really sure why - you can see in seconds that the balance is well above the required 400K and has been for the past two years.

On the whole I was very pleased. It was probably the smoothest re-newal I've ever done.

Was it at the same office as Tony ?

[OneeyedJohn]

We were in and out of there within 20 minutes with a new non-immigrant O. I was actually impressed with the speed of things and the immigration officer told me that there was a new boss at the helm and he wants things speeded up in terms of customer service. No more of this going back to the office three times for yet another one-month 'under approval' stamp while waiting for the main office at Suan Plu to get their act together.

Forgive me for not understanding how you get a Support wife visa immediately, or is that what happens when u apply in Suan Plu.?

My application was stamped to return in 3 weeks time.

[Tony Clifton]

Application for ''Non-Imm. -O- visa'' was submitted this morning, along with proof of 400, 000 baht in an account. They never mentioned 40 000 a month as income for requirement. Let's see what I am handed tomorrow at 2 pm.

My wife is still stating that the latest change to the law allows us to choose between 400, 000 in the bank OR 40k/ month family income.

Singapore is unbelievably clean! Smells nice. (Smoking with paranoia though )

Drivers are not trying to achieve the speed of light, courtesy seems to be the norm for all.

[Khonwan]

Application for ''Non-Imm. -O- visa'' was submitted this morning, along with proof of 400, 000 baht in an account. They never mentioned 40 000 a month as income for requirement. Let's see what I am handed tomorrow at 2 pm.

My wife is still stating that the latest change to the law allows us to choose between 400, 000 in the bank OR 40k/ month family income.

Singapore is unbelievably clean! Smells nice. (Smoking with paranoia though )

Drivers are not trying to achieve the speed of light, courtesy seems to be the norm for all.

My understanding of the forum reports is that the 400,000 baht option is acceptable when applying for a new visa (which is what you have done) but that you will not have this option when you apply for an extension (since you will not have grandfather rights).

Rgds

Khonwan

[sriracha john]

Application for ''Non-Imm. -O- visa'' was submitted this morning, along with proof of 400, 000 baht in an account. They never mentioned 40 000 a month as income for requirement. Let's see what I am handed tomorrow at 2 pm.

My wife is still stating that the latest change to the law allows us to choose between 400, 000 in the bank OR 40k/ month family income.

Singapore is unbelievably clean! Smells nice. (Smoking with paranoia though )

Drivers are not trying to achieve the speed of light, courtesy seems to be the norm for all.

Good luck tomorrow, Tony... and don't pay any attention to all that nonsense about cigarette butts... feel free to just toss them anywhere..... it's all just a bunch of false hype about Singapore.

*yeah, right...*

[ovenman]

Singapore is unbelievably clean! Smells nice. (Smoking with paranoia though )

Good luck tomorrow, Tony... and don't pay any attention to all that nonsense about cigarette butts... feel free to just toss them anywhere..... it's all just a bunch of false hype about Singapore.

Indeed. Singapore is a fine place from what I have heard.

[Nawtilus]

can you bring me some gum

[Disting]

Bangkok Phil

Which immigration office did you go too.

Can anyone advise how long it takes after you put your extension application in until you get the extension in the passport. My circumstances are my 1st visa runs out on 8th Jan but I have to leave Thailand on 24th Decemmber to go back to work. Whats the earliest I can put the application in. Do they keep your passport whilst they are processing.

Thanks

[astral]

By all acounts they do not seem to be worried about movement for the retirement extension.

My 800,000 was in a fixed interest account. They were more than happy.

Unfortunately you are talking about a different scenario.

Retirement visa extensions are handled at the local level,

but marriage goes to Suan Plu.

This is a very worrying post for many of us.

[opalhort]

Retirement visa extensions are handled at the local level,

but marriage goes to Suan Plu.

This is a very worrying post for many of us.

Exactly!

In the past I've got my renewal with a combination of income and Bank deposit. Last year they told me to use the bank deposit only (around 600K) and that was OK with me. So I should be grandfathered now - right?

BUT: this account was opened in 1996 and apart from interest and tax transactions has never had any movement of funds since then.

Our combined (husband/wife) 'recorded' income is just under 40K.

Tomorrow morning (25.04.07) I'll be at Suan Plu for my annual renewal and hope for the best.

Of course they won't accept the combined income because it is below 40K, but if they reject the bank deposit (because of no activity) or reject a combination of income and bank deposit then I will be in real trouble.

opalhort