After military opens door, Trump rejects removing names of Confederate leaders from U.S. bases

[DoctorG]

10 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Tell the military, they ate open to the idea. Must be the pc military.

Many generals etc have one eye on their future political careers after their service, so I do not set a great store in their utterings. Wonder what the rank and file think about the names. If the majority of the troops support a name change, then so would I.

[riclag]

3 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

Many generals etc have one eye on their future political careers after their service, so I do not set a great store in their utterings. Wonder what the rank and file think about the names. If the majority of the troops support a name change, then so would I.

Who gets to decide the military or the office in charge of them

Edited June 11, 2020 by riclag

[Hanaguma]

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I can't see any sense in this symbolism, most people wouldn't even know who they were anyway considering that many Americans couldn't even write in the names of the states on a blank map of the USA but if it would help to lower tensions why not, it's only a name. I hope that Trump will soon be gone with the wind

Except that never happens. When you appease the mob, they just demand more.  Surely you saw what happened to the Mayor of Minneapolis? He was on his knees grovelling at the feet of the BLM people, giving them almost everything they demanded. Yet when he balked at actually disbanding the police force, he was kicked out and sent packing.  

 

So no.  The statue thing started in Charlottesville. We were assured it was a one time thing, only vile racists would be removed from public view, yadda yadda yadda. Didn't work out that way.  Now Columbus is being erased from the public square.  Repentant confederates the same. Who's next?

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Let's look at just one issue. Police brutality. 

Does it exist? Yes

Does it affect especially black people: Yes

Are all police officers bad: No

Are all police officers good: No

Are all black people innocent: No

Are all black people guilty: No

 

Should anybody who is accused of doing something wrong, even something minor, be treated like a hardened criminal?

Show every police officer be able to choke anybody because he feels like it?

Should police officers be held responsible for what they are doing?

Should police officers be able to do their job and protect people and property?

 

I think there is a lot to agree about.

But for Trump and his right wing supporters it's so much easier to pretend that the blacks are always criminals and the police should be hard and kill them all. The land of the free, yeah...

 A lot of questions. Let me ask you one. Trump can't do anything at all to appease his detractors. They don't want to see him succeed. What would you suggest he do considering that each state and city is responsible for their own law and order? Many want to defund the police. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Orton Rd]

If you start removing confederate war hero's, and they are to some, what about the 12 presidents who were slave owners, including Washington?

https://www.history.com/news/how-many-u-s-presidents-owned-slaves

 

As for Lincoln he tried to extend slavery for decades in the pursuit of preserving the Union, his only goal

 

On December 1, 1862, one month before the scheduled issuing of an Emancipation Proclamation, the president offered the Confederacy another chance to return to the union and preserve slavery for the foreseeable future. In his annual message to congress, Lincoln recommended a constitutional amendment, which if it had passed, would have been the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution.

The amendment proposed gradual emancipation that would not be completed for another thirty-seven years, taking slavery in the United States into the twentieth century

Edited June 11, 2020 by Orton Rd

[Metropolitian]

As kid I loved watching them.

 

Ridiculousness came over us mankind to touch this precious thing in history.

Hollywood is not reality, we all know that. No reason to scrape this this from our screens.

 

 

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

If you start removing confederate war hero's, and they are to some, what about the 12 presidents who were slave owners, including Washington?

https://www.history.com/news/how-many-u-s-presidents-owned-slaves

Good point! As the older generation dies out, we might be seeing the beginning of the end for the Constitution.

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

 A lot of questions. Let me ask you one. Trump can't do anything at all to appease his detractors. They don't want to see him succeed. What would you suggest he do considering that each state and city is responsible for their own law and order? Many want to defund the police. 

Personally I don't want him to succeed because he did already so much wrong that he can't make enough right to balance what he did already.

But I, and I am sure many others, would see Trump in a better light if he would at least try to make things better and unite the people. He could make a speech and admit he made mistakes. He could say the police needs reform and he could introduce at least some police reform. He could also take Covid serious. And he could at least try in his presidential press conferences to act like a president. He could do all that...

[Traubert]

1 hour ago, DoctorG said:

Try being gracious.

AND American at the same time??

[Captain Monday]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You seem not to understand why Confederate statues are left standing. It's because even though they fought for the losing side the winners respected them as soldiers.

Same reason Rommel is still respected even though he fought for Hitler.

You misunderstand US History. Most of these statues were put up during the 20th century Jim Cow era

to intimidate and threaten the Black population. Having Military bases named after traitors makes no sense.

Except to Trump and supporters. Racists, Bigots and Ani-semites. I don't believe Trump himself is an anti-semite but he is happy to ally with them.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Captain Monday

[DoctorG]

9 minutes ago, Traubert said:

AND American at the same time??

I have no idea if Barmbeker is American or not.

[Orton Rd]

 

6 minutes ago, Captain Monday said:

You misunderstand US History. Most of these statues were put up during the 20th century Jim Cow era

to intimidate and threaten the Black population. Having Military bases named after traitors makes no sense.

Except to Trump and supporters. Racists, Bigots and Ani-semites. I don't believe Trump himself is an anti-semite but he is happy to ally with them.

Trump was the only president who had the guts to recognise Jeruslem as the capital of israel, how is that allying himslef with anti semites? Confederate figures were not tratoirs, they had every right to leave the union and the war was about them doing so, not to free the slaves.

[The Barmbeker]

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Because it highlights how totally unhinged the left and their democrat supporters have become. Ban the Dukes of Hazzard? Bonkers. Ban flags at Nascar? Insanity. I will say the same about the left trying to ban Paw Patrol cartoon because they worry it casts police in a positive light. 

I do not have stats for this but if more than 5% of Americans agree with rewriting American history and dismantling/deleting/denying anything white people ever did(because that is exactly where these cultural marxists are heading) will not be winning them many votes in November. This anti-white racism is totally out of control.

Sure...those were all words!

[Hanaguma]

Has anyone else actually read the article mentioned in the original post- the one in Atlantic magazine written by General Petraeus (sp)?  It's actually rather thoughtful. Interestingly, he makes an exception for Robert E Lee in his opinion that the bases all need to be renamed.   Not sure why- I guess he respects Lee's competence as a leader above all else. 

 

The South in the US has traditionally been home to a larger proportion of both military members and military bases than it's population would suggest. Traditionally, the South was economically depressed so for lots of southern boys, joining the military was an attractive option. The South also produced many of America's great military leaders too. So there is a certain romanticized notion in keeping bases in the South named after southern officers.  

 

In any case, it's gonna be hard to find morally perfect people to name stuff after, particularly in the age of social media and revisionist history.

[phantomfiddler]

I don,t know how many military bases there are around America or the World, but surely the best thing would be to rename them all as following :-

Nelson Mandela Base 1

Nelson Mandela Base 2

Nelson Mandela Base 3

and so on ! Never forget the incredibly negative effect the white man has had in all areas, such as electricity, penicillin, mechanical transport, even furniture ! Everyone used to sit on the floor until we came along ????

[Benmart]

8 hours ago, keith101 said:

Typical act of a white supremacist .

An extremist could say your comment smacks of racism against white sodiers from the south  who are long dead. Do you see how this can be a run-away train?

[Benmart]

1 hour ago, riclag said:

Who gets to decide the military or the office in charge of them

Your asking that question reveals you have never served in the US Armed Forces. I served 20 years, and never once was a decision made for me that was not supported by Federal Law, regulation or lawful order. In the area of voting, it was left to my conscience, in private, as to how I cast my vote.

[tifino]

any damage/defacing will quickly be fixed, by who/what ever is in power... 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No need to alter the history books, the Confederacy was roundly defeated.

 

 

 

The confederates were only defeated because being from the agriculturist south, they ran out of weapons, also remember that they killed about three times as many Yankee soldiers as the Yanks killed their's.

The South also won most of the major battles, the only major battle the Yanks won was at Gettysburg, the Rebs won both the battles of Bull Run at Manassas. 

[JensenZ]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Personally I don't want him to succeed because he did already so much wrong that he can't make enough right to balance what he did already.

But I, and I am sure many others, would see Trump in a better light if he would at least try to make things better and unite the people. He could make a speech and admit he made mistakes. He could say the police needs reform and he could introduce at least some police reform. He could also take Covid serious. And he could at least try in his presidential press conferences to act like a president. He could do all that...

I figured as much. You don't want him to succeed, making most or all of what you say nothing more than meaningless trash talking.

 

You already had 8 years of a president "acting like a president". You need a real politician that talks like a politician and tells everyone what they want to hear. Biden will be the puppet you deserve, provided he can put some meaningful sentences together. 

[nausea]

Banging on about the past is just an easy way of avoiding the real issues. Here's an idea - an exchange program between guys in the hood and guys in priviliged left wing middle class homes. A month or two in the hood would teach these guys the reality of life, and having a real live person in your home, as opposed to some idealised construct, might teach the middle class parents a thing or two as well. As for the black guys, it's all win, win. Maybe, they'll get motivated, make contacts, network as they say. No-one's gonna go for gang culture after seeing this "White Privilege" in operation, which is actually obtainable by everyone. It's a social construct, and depends on education, wealth, and observing certain social norms, not race. My God, some of the most intelligent guys I've met have been, let us say, racially diverse. The truth is the middle classes are pushing their kids to the forefront, a lot of them are pretty stupid. Genetics is weird this way. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by nausea
Spelling

[RobFord]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Link please.

And it’s soo easy to educate yourself. Why won’t you?

 

“Most of the Confederate monuments concerned were built in periods of racial conflict, such as when Jim Crow laws were being introduced in the late 19th century and at the start of the 20th century or during the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s.”

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Removal_of_Confederate_monuments_and_memorials

[Bad boy 561]

6 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Pathetic revisionism by pc ne're-do-wells. Stop trying to Vanilla-rise everything.  What's next?  alter the history books?

 

only Whites can be racist?  oh wait...

According to al sharpton and Jesse Jackson,yes only whites are racist

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, Emdog said:

Most went to preserve the union. Why did the south leave? So they could continue owning slaves & they saw Lincoln the abolitionist winning presidency as writing on the wall that sooner or later slavery would end. Lincoln did say early on that if south had to keep slavery that might be acceptable if it preserved union. But people evolve in their ideas and beliefs... it's called growth.

"For 110 years, the numbers stood as gospel: 618,222 men died in the Civil War, 360,222 from the North and 258,000 from the South — by far the greatest toll of any war in American history." Those numbers are low, if you accept new estimates. Also estimated 36,000 blacks died in the war. Your numbers are way way off... https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/civil-war-toll-up-by-20-percent-in-new-estimate.html

 

try again.

 

northerners went to war to preserve the union.

southerners went to war to preserve slavery.

 

that's ridiculous.  it's propaganda.

 

at that point, there was no "union" of north and south.  there were two sovereign nations.  one went to war to force the other to submit to their rule.  the other went to maintain their..........freedom.

 

it was a war over the spelling of the word government; would it be spelled with a big "G" or a little "g". 

[ChouDoufu]

2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

I don,t know how many military bases there are around America or the World, but surely the best thing would be to rename them all as following :-

Nelson Mandela Base 1

Nelson Mandela Base 2

Nelson Mandela Base 3

and so on ! Never forget the incredibly negative effect the white man has had in all areas, such as electricity, penicillin, mechanical transport, even furniture ! Everyone used to sit on the floor until we came along ????

 

great!  let's rename the bases after a terrorist.

 

sad, but appropriate given our nation's foreign policy.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, JensenZ said:

provided he can put some meaningful sentences together

That sounds funny from a Trump supporter. 555

[Sujo]

6 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Because it highlights how totally unhinged the left and their democrat supporters have become. Ban the Dukes of Hazzard? Bonkers. Ban flags at Nascar? Insanity. I will say the same about the left trying to ban Paw Patrol cartoon because they worry it casts police in a positive light. 

I do not have stats for this but if more than 5% of Americans agree with rewriting American history and dismantling/deleting/denying anything white people ever did(because that is exactly where these cultural marxists are heading) will not be winning them many votes in November. This anti-white racism is totally out of control.

So my question was how is banning the confederate flag a win for trump and your answer is thats its a win for the dems.

 

btw, flags are not banned from nascar, only cofederate flags.

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, Benmart said:

An extremist could say your comment smacks of racism against white sodiers from the south  who are long dead. Do you see how this can be a run-away train?

No, only traitors.

[Sujo]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

The confederates were only defeated because being from the agriculturist south, they ran out of weapons, also remember that they killed about three times as many Yankee soldiers as the Yanks killed their's.

The South also won most of the major battles, the only major battle the Yanks won was at Gettysburg, the Rebs won both the battles of Bull Run at Manassas. 

And yet still lost. Get over it.

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

great!  let's rename the bases after a terrorist.

 

sad, but appropriate given our nation's foreign policy.

A terrorist according to a slave loving white suppremist only. He brought SA together.