After military opens door, Trump rejects removing names of Confederate leaders from U.S. bases

[Psimbo]

55 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Statues coming down, bases being renamed and the confederate flag being outlawed (by NASCAR no less).

 

About time.

 

A big thank you to trump, for uniting the country, and for helping to erase the vestiges of the Original Sin. Well done sir. Keep on tweeting.

 

 

 

 

Orange Kool Aid today?

 

Finally I agree with something Trump has decided (or hasn't or may be has or I don't know, but possibly) but not the way he has put the message across. 

 

Like them or not these Generals were part of a history that is still raw  today. I did a Battlefield Tour of Gettysburg with the US War College a number of years back and it was an emotional experience for some of the US Army guys. Lee was actually going to be the Union Commander until he put Virginia first and sided withe the Confederacy. There were good and bad generals on both sides. Having the bases named after them does not glorify them it just reflects their place in history. To be honest 99% of the public probably doesn't know who they were anyway.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That would be members of the Democrat party then?

If that be the case, then so be it.

 

The issue is not party politics.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Incoherent reasoning. We salute the heroism of the soldiers regardless of name of the military base. The name can change; the heroism will still remain. Act of heroism is bestowed upon a military unit not the camp. 

“What’s in a name? That which we call a rose / By Any Other Name would smell as sweet.” 

 

W Shakespeare  In Act-II, Scene-II of Shakespeare’s play, Romeo and Juliet,

[pegman]

4 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

Why stop with civil war traitors being honored? Why isn't there a Fort Benedict Arnold?

No he left the traitors to go back with the loyalists.  Too bad a few more of the domestic terrorists didn't do the same and maybe that place wouldn't be such a mess today. 

 

 I wonder if the draft dodger will name a fort or base after himself  once he gets stomped in November.  Maybe award himself a few military medals too. 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[sqwakvfr]

“Slippery Slope”.  If a government goes down this path then there is no end.  I recently saw a photo of the Abraham Lincoln monument in England that was vandalized. Lincoln, the president that ended slavery?

 

Also, I recently found out that McCarron Airport in Las Vegas is named after Senator Pat McCarron.  In the past he was accused of being a Racist, Xenaphobe and of course Anti-Semite(the Awoke Tri-Fecta).  

 

The Awoke/PC revolution is moving at Warp Speed(LEGO has stopped making Police officer toys, Gone With the Wind has been removed from HBO Max, The TV Shows Cops (after 33 years) and Live PD have been cancelled and NASCAR has banned the Confederate Flag(this presents a problem because the fan base of NASCAR is from places where this flag is proudly flown?).  

 

Just about anything that is said can and will be deemed offensive and possibly racist.  Welcome to the “New Normal” in America.  Can’t wait to go back later this year.  

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Trump 1, NASCAR 0.

How is banning confederate flags at nascar a win for trump. Did he advocate for the ban?

[sqwakvfr]

 

“I wonder if the draft dodger will name a fort or base after himself  once he gets stomped in November.  Maybe award himself a few military medals too.”

 

 

Donald Trump claimed Shin Splints??? Joe Biden claimed Asthma?  George Bush Jr flew F102 fighters for the Texas Air National Guard(even though flight records show he did not log very many hours).  Playing Dodge Ball during the Vietnam War was played by many of the Elite Class. This was accomplished on both sides of the aisle.  

Edited June 11, 2020 by sqwakvfr
Content

[ChouDoufu]

kool-aid is not a newly-discovered product.  how many of you truly believe the civil war was fought over slavery?

 

really?  how many of those 620,000 union soldiers laid down their lives to free their brothers of colour so that their compatriots could treat them little better than slaves upon their return home?  the winners get to write the history books, so of course it was all to free the slaves from the nasty, evil southerners. 

 

will be confusing when we get more talk about reparations.  how do we handle the black descendants of black slave owners?  do they get reparations for being black, or do they pay reparations for their black ancestors owning other blacks?

 

by the way, who was the first slave owner in the us?

Edited June 11, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[TopDeadSenter]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

How is banning confederate flags at nascar a win for trump. Did he advocate for the ban?

Because it highlights how totally unhinged the left and their democrat supporters have become. Ban the Dukes of Hazzard? Bonkers. Ban flags at Nascar? Insanity. I will say the same about the left trying to ban Paw Patrol cartoon because they worry it casts police in a positive light. 

I do not have stats for this but if more than 5% of Americans agree with rewriting American history and dismantling/deleting/denying anything white people ever did(because that is exactly where these cultural marxists are heading) will not be winning them many votes in November. This anti-white racism is totally out of control.

[Hanaguma]

5 hours ago, keith101 said:

Typical act of a white supremacist .

What?!?  I'm no fan of Pelosi, but I wouldn't go that far...

[Hanaguma]

As for the topic, it sounds trite to say, but "it's complicated".  Not a case of simply calling the losing rebels "traitors" or "terrorists" at all. The conflict was about deeper issues of rights and obligations, of separation of powers between levels of government, and so on. 

 

That is why, after the war, the defeated Confederates were also considered as veterans. At the time, it was understood that for many of them the issues were deeper than simply rebelling or owning slaves.  Many ex-confederate officers went on to long careers in the US Army.  Would "traitors" be allowed to do such a thing?  

 

Sorry, the revisionist and 20/20 hindsight views of history really need to be discouraged. 

[JensenZ]

4 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Let us just erase all people of history anytime some minority group feels like history must go!

I would be interested in hearing some theories about how America would be today if there was never one slave brought over from Africa and the Civil War never happened? Perhaps the anthem would still be "God save the King/Queen"? 

 

One thing is sure, the America of today owes its existence to everything that happened in its past. These statues represent people who had a big influence on what America became. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by JensenZ

[johnpetersen]

59 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

Orange Kool Aid today?

 

Finally I agree with something Trump has decided (or hasn't or may be has or I don't know, but possibly) but not the way he has put the message across. 

 

Like them or not these Generals were part of a history that is still raw  today. I did a Battlefield Tour of Gettysburg with the US War College a number of years back and it was an emotional experience for some of the US Army guys. Lee was actually going to be the Union Commander until he put Virginia first and sided withe the Confederacy. There were good and bad generals on both sides. Having the bases named after them does not glorify them it just reflects their place in history. To be honest 99% of the public probably doesn't know who they were anyway.

And what historical connection do any of these generals have with these military bases? In fact, the reason that these bases got the names they did was because the military needed big tracts of land to build them on. These bases were given their names after WW1 and WW2.  To placate the local bigots who ran things down South, they gave them the right to choose the names of the bases.

 

[seajae]

if they want to remove all vestiges of slavery then the democrats need to be removed as well as they were the party that wanted slaves and they started the KKK, the republicans were formed to stop slavery but all this seems to be ignored by blm and all those against slavery as it doesnt fit their political bias

[Orton Rd]

6 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

Why stop with civil war traitors being honored? Why isn't there a Fort Benedict Arnold?

The confederacy had a legal right to leave the Union, Lincoln over rode the constitution and invaded the south to force them back into it. If anyone was a tratior it was Lincoln. He only freed the slaves a few years into the war to be able to win it.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Orton Rd

[johnpetersen]

8 minutes ago, seajae said:

if they want to remove all vestiges of slavery then the democrats need to be removed as well as they were the party that wanted slaves and they started the KKK, the republicans were formed to stop slavery but all this seems to be ignored by blm and all those against slavery as it doesnt fit their political bias

By all means remove any commemoration of Democrats who supported slavery. Don't think the modern Democrat party would have any problem with that. Republicans are more likely to since their rise in the South began with Republican Presidential candidate Barry Goldwater's opposition to the 63 Civil Rights Bill.

[Emdog]

38 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

kool-aid is not a newly-discovered product.  how many of you truly believe the civil war was fought over slavery?

 

really?  how many of those 620,000 union soldiers laid down their lives to free their brothers of colour so that their compatriots could treat them little better than slaves upon their return home?  the winners get to write the history books, so of course it was all to free the slaves from the nasty, evil southerners. 

 

will be confusing when we get more talk about reparations.  how do we handle the black descendants of black slave owners?  do they get reparations for being black, or do they pay reparations for their black ancestors owning other blacks?

 

by the way, who was the first slave owner in the us?

Most went to preserve the union. Why did the south leave? So they could continue owning slaves & they saw Lincoln the abolitionist winning presidency as writing on the wall that sooner or later slavery would end. Lincoln did say early on that if south had to keep slavery that might be acceptable if it preserved union. But people evolve in their ideas and beliefs... it's called growth.

"For 110 years, the numbers stood as gospel: 618,222 men died in the Civil War, 360,222 from the North and 258,000 from the South — by far the greatest toll of any war in American history." Those numbers are low, if you accept new estimates. Also estimated 36,000 blacks died in the war. Your numbers are way way off... https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/science/civil-war-toll-up-by-20-percent-in-new-estimate.html

[JensenZ]

4 minutes ago, seajae said:

if they want to remove all vestiges of slavery then the democrats need to be removed as well as they were the party that wanted slaves and they started the KKK, the republicans were formed to stop slavery but all this seems to be ignored by blm and all those against slavery as it doesnt fit their political bias

Solved! No slaves - no BLM movement - no complaints.

 

 

[JCauto]

1 hour ago, Psimbo said:

Orange Kool Aid today?

 

Finally I agree with something Trump has decided (or hasn't or may be has or I don't know, but possibly) but not the way he has put the message across. 

 

Like them or not these Generals were part of a history that is still raw  today. I did a Battlefield Tour of Gettysburg with the US War College a number of years back and it was an emotional experience for some of the US Army guys. Lee was actually going to be the Union Commander until he put Virginia first and sided withe the Confederacy. There were good and bad generals on both sides. Having the bases named after them does not glorify them it just reflects their place in history. To be honest 99% of the public probably doesn't know who they were anyway.

Well, you may be surprised to find there are others who support this strongly who are diametrically opposed to both Trump and what the Confederacy represented. I'd recommend listening to the view of Sir Geoffrey Palmer of the UK - there was a good and long interview with him I saw two days ago but can't seem to find. His view is that the statues indeed do represent history and that history is important and needs to be learned from to guide people to lessons. Instead he proposes installing new plaques that describe clearly what the people did, both good and bad, the context within which it was done etc. That seems a pretty good compromise to me. 

[DoctorG]

1 hour ago, The Barmbeker said:

Why am I not surprised?

Try being gracious.

[JensenZ]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think it's somehow funny that Trump brought himself into the position that he can't make any compromises anymore - even any reasonable compromises.

The people who still support him must be radical right, radical evangelical, stupid, greedy and selfish, or all of that. So if Trump would even consider doing something to unite the people these radicals won't like it. He can't afford to lose any voters so he won't do anything to unite the country. But by doing that he disqualifies himself for anybody who was still somewhere in the middle ground. Soon Trump will only have the radicals to support him. And there are many of them in the USA, too many, but probably not enough to guarantee another Trump victory. There is hope...

I think it's funny that people think the president should cave in to every demand. All these actions/ideas that you suggest might unite people does nothing of the sort. There is no consensus on even one issue. It might calm some of the loudest protesters, but there's a whole silent majority that would disagree and a new uprising will begin to emerge. Already the BLM movement is starting to anger a lot of black people.

 

You'll see. The silent majority will re-elect Trump.

[DoctorG]

The Democrat leadership in an attempt at mass virtue signal have gotten themselves admonished for wearing the Kente cloth.

The cloth comes from an African tribe that itself was a massive slaver.

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

I think it's funny that people think the president should cave in to every demand. All these actions/ideas that you suggest might unite people does nothing of the sort. There is no consensus on even one issue. It might calm some of the loudest protesters, but there's a whole silent majority that would disagree and a new uprising will begin to emerge. Already the BLM movement is starting to anger a lot of black people.

 

You'll see. The silent majority will re-elect Trump.

Let's look at just one issue. Police brutality. 

Does it exist? Yes

Does it affect especially black people: Yes

Are all police officers bad: No

Are all police officers good: No

Are all black people innocent: No

Are all black people guilty: No

 

Should anybody who is accused of doing something wrong, even something minor, be treated like a hardened criminal?

Should every police officer be able to choke anybody because he feels like it?

Should police officers be held responsible for what they are doing?

Should police officers be able to do their job and protect people and property?

 

I think there is a lot to agree about.

But for Trump and his right wing supporters it's so much easier to pretend that the blacks are always criminals and the police should be hard and kill them all. The land of the free, yeah...

Edited June 11, 2020 by OneMoreFarang

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Pathetic revisionism by pc ne're-do-wells. Stop trying to Vanilla-rise everything.  What's next?  alter the history books?

 

only Whites can be racist?  oh wait...

Tell the military, they ate open to the idea. Must be the pc military.

[Hanaguma]

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

 

 

But for Trump and his right wing supporters it's so much easier to pretend that the blacks are always criminals and the police should be hard and kill them all. The land of the free, yeah...

As someone who is a little to the right of Attila the Hun politically, I have to say in all honesty that I don't know anyone who holds those views. Nor have I met anyone who does. If I did meet such a person, I would laugh in their face and walk away.

 

Nice attempt at demonizing those you disagree with though. Spoken like a true ideologue.

[Sujo]

17 minutes ago, DoctorG said:

The Democrat leadership in an attempt at mass virtue signal have gotten themselves admonished for wearing the Kente cloth.

The cloth comes from an African tribe that itself was a massive slaver.

Oh how shocking. Are you being pc.

 

Did you see the bible going up in flames as trump held it upside down after gassing people so he could get a photoshoot.

 

I didnt see the dems doing that for their photoshoot.

[DoctorG]

8 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Oh how shocking. Are you being pc.

 

Did you see the bible going up in flames as trump held it upside down after gassing people so he could get a photoshoot.

 

I didnt see the dems doing that for their photoshoot.

to quote you guys - whataboutism

and they are being admonished by the Left, not by me

Edited June 11, 2020 by DoctorG
added

[riclag]

Leave the statues , monuments and historical sites!

Destroying  these will only escalate into more demands!

 

Whats next Washington DC!

 

Attack elements of culture was and is the plan of many extremist in the past and currently featured by many who want to see my country destroyed   

Edited June 11, 2020 by riclag

[soalbundy]

7 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

No just good sense - for once

I can't see any sense in this symbolism, most people wouldn't even know who they were anyway considering that many Americans couldn't even write in the names of the states on a blank map of the USA but if it would help to lower tensions why not, it's only a name. I hope that Trump will soon be gone with the wind