Biden says military would help oust Trump if he loses election but refuses to leave

[Masterton]

On 6/18/2020 at 12:30 AM, heybruce said:

“There is nothing illegal about what we did,” she said, adding that the form clearly explains that only citizens are eligible to vote. The intention, she said, was to familiarize refugees with the registration process."

 

And you actually believe that ?? ????????????

[Masterton]

On 6/17/2020 at 12:07 PM, heybruce said:

A legitimate argument requires verifiable facts.  If illegal immigrants voted, they would give both documented evidence of doing something illegal, and they would also give an address they could be reached at.  You should have no problem providing facts showing this type of election fraud took place.  Go ahead and do so.

 

You think Trump is not profiting from conflicts of interest?  I'll make a deal with you.  I will agree to provide verifiable examples of Trump using the Presidency for personal profit if you agree to provide verifiable examples of Biden's corruption.  Please note that these must be clear, obvious examples, not your opinion of appearances.

 

Facts, whether self evident or verifiable, mean absolutely nothing to the Democrats. Unfortunately it is impossible to debate anyone who is anti Trump/pro Democrat because apart from the fact that their minds are already made up and sealed shut, when facts are presented, they are then denied or ridiculed and their source discredited. The main problem is the Democrat media who lie, cover up, and propagate on their behalf which results in a dumbed down and ignorant viewership who then think they are 'informed'. I would suggest you do some of your own research outside the usual fake news echo chamber and find out for yourself the answers to which you seek. The problem is that you are not looking in the right places. Just as an example, if someone quoted a Breitbart report, then someone like you would probably say "oh that's a far right conspiracy site", or if it was factually verified reporting from Fox News, then it would be "oh Fox, they are Trump State Media" etc. It is pointless. And if you don't believe that Biden is corrupt or that the whole Hunter Biden/Ukraine deal was as dodgy as hell then there is really is nothing more to be said on the matter.... 

[Crazy Alex]

13 hours ago, heybruce said:

No, I'd say your "facts", more often than not, are unconvincing. 

 

For example, your citing 50 voter registration cards with instructions and information about who can legally vote as your defense of your OTP claim that "Democrats are known for cheating in elections, so a wise person isn't going to agree to concede an election when running against people who register dead people, hand out voter registration cards to refugees just arriving in the US and the various voter registration scams Democrats have been caught in.

 

BTW; you never supported your claim that Democrats "register dead people" or support your claim of "various voter registration scams".  I gave you an example of how Republicans do it, can't you give a corresponding example of Democrat voter fraud?

Well yes, obviously handing over voter registration cards to newly-arrived non-citizens is an attempt to engage in voter fraud. No rational and honest person would deny that. As for Democrats and dead people voting, I thought that was common knowledge enough that you would already know.

 

https://930amtheanswer.com/content/all/texas-democrats-try-to-register-non-citizens-dead-people-to-vote

 

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/detroit-has-2500-dead-people-registered-to-vote-lawsuit-claims

 

https://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2019/06/07/california-man-dogs-dead-father-vote-voter-fraud-elections-pacific-grove/3672406002/

 

https://wtvr.com/2017/06/26/andrew-spieles-guilty-plea/

 

https://ballotpedia.org/ACORN_and_voter_registration_fraud

 

Of course, I could provide many more links. I suspect you would still deny, deny, deny. However, given many Democrats' refusal to acknowledge voter fraud, coupled with their opposition to election security, many rational people conclude Democrats like voter fraud.

 

I think what is REALLY interesting is how the topic of this year's election comes up, and practically automatically, voter fraud becomes an angle of the topic. Quite revealing.

 

 

[metisdead]

A post with inflammatory comments to another member and the replies have been removed.

 

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[johnpetersen]

33 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Well yes, obviously handing over voter registration cards to newly-arrived non-citizens is an attempt to engage in voter fraud. No rational and honest person would deny that. As for Democrats and dead people voting, I thought that was common knowledge enough that you would already know.

 

https://930amtheanswer.com/content/all/texas-democrats-try-to-register-non-citizens-dead-people-to-vote

 

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/detroit-has-2500-dead-people-registered-to-vote-lawsuit-claims

 

https://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2019/06/07/california-man-dogs-dead-father-vote-voter-fraud-elections-pacific-grove/3672406002/

 

https://wtvr.com/2017/06/26/andrew-spieles-guilty-plea/

 

https://ballotpedia.org/ACORN_and_voter_registration_fraud

 

Of course, I could provide many more links. I suspect you would still deny, deny, deny. However, given many Democrats' refusal to acknowledge voter fraud, coupled with their opposition to election security, many rational people conclude Democrats like voter fraud.

 

I think what is REALLY interesting is how the topic of this year's election comes up, and practically automatically, voter fraud becomes an angle of the topic. Quite revealing.

 

 

The thing is, that there were cases of dead people being registered to vote. That was because in some cases people were being paid per registration. But as investigations showed, no one ever voted under those names.

[candide]

11 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Well yes, obviously handing over voter registration cards to newly-arrived non-citizens is an attempt to engage in voter fraud. No rational and honest person would deny that. As for Democrats and dead people voting, I thought that was common knowledge enough that you would already know.

 

https://930amtheanswer.com/content/all/texas-democrats-try-to-register-non-citizens-dead-people-to-vote

 

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/detroit-has-2500-dead-people-registered-to-vote-lawsuit-claims

 

https://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2019/06/07/california-man-dogs-dead-father-vote-voter-fraud-elections-pacific-grove/3672406002/

 

https://wtvr.com/2017/06/26/andrew-spieles-guilty-plea/

 

https://ballotpedia.org/ACORN_and_voter_registration_fraud

 

Of course, I could provide many more links. I suspect you would still deny, deny, deny. However, given many Democrats' refusal to acknowledge voter fraud, coupled with their opposition to election security, many rational people conclude Democrats like voter fraud.

 

I think what is REALLY interesting is how the topic of this year's election comes up, and practically automatically, voter fraud becomes an angle of the topic. Quite revealing.

 

 

A few anedoctical cases don't prove your initial claim that Dems are known for cheating. In order to prove it, you would need to show that it had been a frequent and significant occurrence. So you did not prove anything.

One top of it, most of your examples are complains. We don't know whether a fraud has been proven or not. You just try to look convincing but you show no evidence.

Case 1: a vague article stating an investigation has been requested. What's the outcome?

Case 2: the lawsuit does not allege voter fraud, just that voter files have not been expunged. No allegation that dead people voted. What's the outcome of the lawsuit?

Case 3: a man tried to register his dog and got caught. What has it to do with Dems cheating?

Case 4: A student caugh for registering dead people. This a clear case of malpractice. Quote from the article "Spieles admitted that he created all 18 fraudulent forms himself and that no one else participated in the crime.”

Case 5:  The ACORN case (2008). Again, it's not a case of DEMS frauding. 

"Neither ACORN nor its employees have been found guilty of, or even charged with, casting fraudulent votes. What a McCain-Palin Web ad calls "voter fraud" is actually voter registration fraud. Several ACORN canvassers have been found guilty of faking registration forms and others are being investigated. But the evidence that has surfaced so far shows they faked forms to get paid for work they didn’t do, not to stuff ballot boxes.

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/acorn-accusations/

[Susco]

40 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

I think what is REALLY interesting is how the topic of this year's election comes up, and practically automatically, voter fraud becomes an angle of the topic. Quite revealing.

 

Could that be because your so loved president, who in most elections prefers to vote by mail-in ballot for years already, has made it a hot topic?

 

Wonder actually why he has voted that way for years already, if he's so confident it's fraudulent.

[Crazy Alex]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

A few anedoctical cases don't prove your initial claim that Dems are known for cheating. In order to prove it, you would need to show that it had been a frequent and significant occurrence. So you did not prove anything.

One top of it, most of your examples are complains. We don't know whether a fraud has been proven or not. You just try to look convincing but you show no evidence.

Case 1: a vague article stating an investigation has been requested. What's the outcome?

Case 2: the lawsuit does not allege voter fraud, just that voter files have not been expunged. No allegation that dead people voted. What's the outcome of the lawsuit?

Case 3: a man tried to register his dog and got caught. What has it to do with Dems cheating?

Case 4: A student caugh for registering dead people. This a clear case of malpractice. Quote from the article "Spieles admitted that he created all 18 fraudulent forms himself and that no one else participated in the crime.”

Case 5:  The ACORN case (2008). Again, it's not a case of DEMS frauding. 

"Neither ACORN nor its employees have been found guilty of, or even charged with, casting fraudulent votes. What a McCain-Palin Web ad calls "voter fraud" is actually voter registration fraud. Several ACORN canvassers have been found guilty of faking registration forms and others are being investigated. But the evidence that has surfaced so far shows they faked forms to get paid for work they didn’t do, not to stuff ballot boxes.

https://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/acorn-accusations/

No, you're wrong. I never claimed any sort of quantity of occurrence. So on that alone, your argument falls flat on its face. Nice try. But I did find your attempt to portray ACORN's scam as not for the benefit for Democrats. That was pretty funny. Keep 'em coming.  ????

Edited June 20, 2020 by Crazy Alex

[Sujo]

4 hours ago, checkered flag said:

Trumps strength is finding competent staff and being willing to change when needed. Just like he assembled a team of health professional regarding Covid19, but was willing to shift when the economy was becoming as large of a problem. Managing multi priorities isn't easy and it requires special skills.

How many have left or been fired.

 

He assembled a team? Then disregards their advice.

 

I cant believe you just wrote that.

[Sujo]

4 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

No, you're wrong. I never claimed any sort of quantity of occurrence. So on that alone, your argument falls flat on its face. Nice try. But I did find your attempt to portray ACORN's scam as not for the benefit for Democrats. That was pretty funny. Keep 'em coming.  ????

It wasnt for anyones benefit except acorns.

 

You do know trump does mail voting and put the wrong address. So theres that voter fraud.

[johnpetersen]

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

No, you're wrong. I never claimed any sort of quantity of occurrence. So on that alone, your argument falls flat on its face. Nice try. But I did find your attempt to portray ACORN's scam as not for the benefit for Democrats. That was pretty funny. Keep 'em coming.  ????

The only people that got scammed in that instance was Acorn. They were the ones who paid for the false registrations. Registrations that didn't result in any votes.

[Crazy Alex]

10 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

The only people that got scammed in that instance was Acorn. They were the ones who paid for the false registrations. Registrations that didn't result in any votes.

You're right. Using your logic, we should never concern ourselves with failed attempts to rob banks, either. Of course, rational people will continue wondering how many people got away with the scams I posted about and others, given such crimes and scams are very difficult to catch.

[johnpetersen]

9 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

You're right. Using your logic, we should never concern ourselves with failed attempts to rob banks, either. Of course, rational people will continue wondering how many people got away with the scams I posted about and others, given such crimes and scams are very difficult to catch.

As I pointed out, Acorn wasn't doing the scamming. It got scammed. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Crazy Alex]

1 minute ago, johnpetersen said:

As I pointed out, Acorn wasn't doing the scamming. It got scammed. What is so hard to understand about that?

Why do you think ACORN (an acronym) was being scammed and not scamming? I say their scam was intentional and only used their poor sucker workers as falls guys when they got caught.

[johnpetersen]

6 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Why do you think ACORN (an acronym) was being scammed and not scamming? I say their scam was intentional and only used their poor sucker workers as falls guys when they got caught.

Well if that's what you say. Even though that's not what investigators found. Maybe you also think, like President Trump, that there needs to be a serious investigation (again) to determine whether or not  Joe Scarborough murdered a woman who worked in his office. 

[jimmybcool]

Seems like this voter scam debate could be reconciled easily.  Just require legitimate ID at the polls.  You know, the same ones needed to buy liquor, or rent a car, or open a bank account.  Solves all the problems doesn't it?

 

 

[candide]

2 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

No, you're wrong. I never claimed any sort of quantity of occurrence. So on that alone, your argument falls flat on its face. Nice try. But I did find your attempt to portray ACORN's scam as not for the benefit for Democrats. That was pretty funny. Keep 'em coming.  ????

You claimed that Dems are known for cheating. You did not prove your claim.

Edited. Ooops! I forgotto take into account the case of the man who tried to register his dog! The ultimate proof! ???? 

Edited June 20, 2020 by candide

[Crazy Alex]

1 minute ago, candide said:

You claimed that Dems are known for cheating. You did not prove your claim.

Your refusal to accept does not constitute me not making the case. But I'm with jimmy above. Let's address voter fraud once and for all. To voter ID, I'll add paper ballots, no magically appearing trunks of ballots after election day, finger dyed purple. After all, you want to make sure Russians don't interfere with the election anymore, right?

[candide]

6 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

Your refusal to accept does not constitute me not making the case. But I'm with jimmy above. Let's address voter fraud once and for all. To voter ID, I'll add paper ballots, no magically appearing trunks of ballots after election day, finger dyed purple. After all, you want to make sure Russians don't interfere with the election anymore, right?

Address imaginary voter fraud?

[Masterton]

20 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

Seems like this voter scam debate could be reconciled easily.  Just require legitimate ID at the polls.  You know, the same ones needed to buy liquor, or rent a car, or open a bank account.  Solves all the problems doesn't it?

 

 

 

No no no.... because that would be "racist" and constitute "voter suppression", didn't you know ? ????

[riclag]

Mr. Bash is investigating biden and other obama people during the  controversial unmasking spree when the administration was illegally leaking American names, during the transition ,treasonous imop

 

 Joe since your speculating !Can you be trusted to appear  in front a grand jury if prosecutors subpoena  you! 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/499865-barr-asks-us-attorney-to-look-into-unmasking-issue

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2020 by riclag

[Sujo]

19 minutes ago, riclag said:

Mr. Bash is investigating biden and other obama people during the  controversial unmasking spree when the administration was illegally leaking American names, during the transition ,treasonous imop

 

 Joe since your speculating !Can you be trusted to appear  in front a grand jury if prosecutors subpoena  you! 

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/499865-barr-asks-us-attorney-to-look-into-unmasking-issue

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was no unmasking. Flynns name was never redacted to start with. Grennell has already told this to lindsay graham.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-flynns-name-was-never-masked-in-fbi-document-on-his-communications-with-russian-ambassador/2020/05/20/e94ee050-9a0b-11ea-ac72-3841fcc9b35f_story.html

[riclag]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

There was no unmasking. Flynns name was never redacted to start with. Grennell has already told this to lindsay graham.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-flynns-name-was-never-masked-in-fbi-document-on-his-communications-with-russian-ambassador/2020/05/20/e94ee050-9a0b-11ea-ac72-3841fcc9b35f_story.html

 

2 minutes ago, Sujo said:

There was no unmasking. Flynns name was never redacted to start with. Grennell has already told this to lindsay graham.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/michael-flynns-name-was-never-masked-in-fbi-document-on-his-communications-with-russian-ambassador/2020/05/20/e94ee050-9a0b-11ea-ac72-3841fcc9b35f_story.html

Paywall

[heybruce]

10 hours ago, checkered flag said:

Trumps strength is finding competent staff and being willing to change when needed. Just like he assembled a team of health professional regarding Covid19, but was willing to shift when the economy was becoming as large of a problem. Managing multi priorities isn't easy and it requires special skills.

Oh yeah, he bragged about hiring the best people.  You know, John Bolton, Anthony Scaramucci, Omarosa Manigault Newman, etc. 

 

He hired a team of top health officials, took over the briefings and spewed nonsense information they had to "clarify", gave mixed signals from the start so there was no clear leadership regarding the pandemic, and is now congratulating states with rising infection rates for opening up.  Great show of "strength".

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, Masterton said:

 

Facts, whether self evident or verifiable, mean absolutely nothing to the Democrats. Unfortunately it is impossible to debate anyone who is anti Trump/pro Democrat because apart from the fact that their minds are already made up and sealed shut, when facts are presented, they are then denied or ridiculed and their source discredited. The main problem is the Democrat media who lie, cover up, and propagate on their behalf which results in a dumbed down and ignorant viewership who then think they are 'informed'. I would suggest you do some of your own research outside the usual fake news echo chamber and find out for yourself the answers to which you seek. The problem is that you are not looking in the right places. Just as an example, if someone quoted a Breitbart report, then someone like you would probably say "oh that's a far right conspiracy site", or if it was factually verified reporting from Fox News, then it would be "oh Fox, they are Trump State Media" etc. It is pointless. And if you don't believe that Biden is corrupt or that the whole Hunter Biden/Ukraine deal was as dodgy as hell then there is really is nothing more to be said on the matter.... 

I offered you a clear challenge:

 

" I'll make a deal with you.  I will agree to provide verifiable examples of Trump using the Presidency for personal profit if you agree to provide verifiable examples of Biden's corruption.  Please note that these must be clear, obvious examples, not your opinion of appearances. "

 

You dodged.  That says it all.

 

Regarding your speculation on how I would respond to uses of Breitbart and Fox News references, why not try me?  Written articles only, no videos of ranting pundits.

 

I believe the Hunter Biden/Ukraine deal is less dodgy than Trump's long financial relationship with Deutsche Bank, a notorious money laundering bank, a relationship that Trump is fighting tooth and nail to keep out of the public domain.  And I believe Trump clearly demonstrated how he intended to profit from the Presidency when he doubled admission fees to Mar-a-Lago after he won the election then declared that it would be the "Winter White House".

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Well yes, obviously handing over voter registration cards to newly-arrived non-citizens is an attempt to engage in voter fraud. No rational and honest person would deny that. As for Democrats and dead people voting, I thought that was common knowledge enough that you would already know.

 

https://930amtheanswer.com/content/all/texas-democrats-try-to-register-non-citizens-dead-people-to-vote

 

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/detroit-has-2500-dead-people-registered-to-vote-lawsuit-claims

 

https://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2019/06/07/california-man-dogs-dead-father-vote-voter-fraud-elections-pacific-grove/3672406002/

 

https://wtvr.com/2017/06/26/andrew-spieles-guilty-plea/

 

https://ballotpedia.org/ACORN_and_voter_registration_fraud

 

Of course, I could provide many more links. I suspect you would still deny, deny, deny. However, given many Democrats' refusal to acknowledge voter fraud, coupled with their opposition to election security, many rational people conclude Democrats like voter fraud.

 

I think what is REALLY interesting is how the topic of this year's election comes up, and practically automatically, voter fraud becomes an angle of the topic. Quite revealing.

Your first source provides no meaningful information, not even a date.

 

Your second source states the obvious; people don't change their voter registration status after they die.  Dead people are notoriously lazy.

 

Your third sources of about a man who filed illegal voter registrations and was charged for doing so.  That's how the system works.

 

Your fourth source is also about a person who attempted to file illegal voter registrations and was caught.

 

Your final source is about an organization that has been closed for ten years.

 

All of your sources are about attempts at illegal registration or voter lists that haven't been purged of dead people.  None of them are about illegal voting.  None of them suggests that the registration problems resulted in illegal voting.  None of them indicate any influence on any election.

 

 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

Seems like this voter scam debate could be reconciled easily.  Just require legitimate ID at the polls.  You know, the same ones needed to buy liquor, or rent a car, or open a bank account.  Solves all the problems doesn't it?

Trump is objecting to vote by mail.  Do you want people to mail in their ID with their ballots?

[jimmybcool]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Trump is objecting to vote by mail.  Do you want people to mail in their ID with their ballots?

I think to register to vote by mail a person must appear once in person with ID to confirm they exist and confirm they have the legal right to vote.  Once that is done then they can receive and cast their ballots by mail.  

 

I also think people should need legitimate reason they wish to vote by mail.  For example the elderly or infirm for any reason should be allowed to vote via mail.  

 

As to your question - that was a joke right?  haha.

 

 

 

 

[candide]

5 hours ago, riclag said:

 

Paywall

Google is our friend! ????

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/flynn-s-name-was-never-masked-fbi-report-phone-call-n1212176

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, jimmybcool said:

I think to register to vote by mail a person must appear once in person with ID to confirm they exist and confirm they have the legal right to vote.  Once that is done then they can receive and cast their ballots by mail.  

 

I also think people should need legitimate reason they wish to vote by mail.  For example the elderly or infirm for any reason should be allowed to vote via mail.  

 

As to your question - that was a joke right?  haha.

I see; you think the requirements for voter registration should be tougher than the requirements for opening a bank account, selling a house, filing taxes and getting a refund, etc.  Your criteria would preclude a lot of men and women in the military from registering to vote, and I don't see how it would be any more secure.

 

My question wasn't a joke, it was there to identify the absurdity of your obsession with ID's.