Thailand To Prepare Racism Report For United Nations

[Dakhar]

In America, it is not uncommon to see the Bean Burrito & hamburger on the menu. I don't mind that. What I do mind, is if I call a bank, and I get a recorded message, and the first language on the message is in.... Spanish! When that happens, I question if I dialed Mexico or something????

Can you guess why the first language on the message at the bank was in Spanish? I wonder which customers they treasure most and why.

In any case, Bean Burritos are not Mexican, they're a tex-mex invention... and, Mexico is in America, and so is the USA.

Oh, and pretty much half the USA used to be Mexico, I hope it doesn't bother you that cities and states have ... Spanish! names, such as: Colorado, California, Boca Raton, Cabo Cañaveral, El Paso, Florida, Fresno, Las Cruces, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Los Gatos, Montana (from Montaña), San Antonio, Nevada, San Francisco, Sangre de Cristo Mountains, Santa Fe, Texas, and the list goes on... But hey, those dirty Mexicans are taking over your country; better build a wall fast!

Hasta la vista...

No I don't mind that we purchased or extorted half of Mexico. I especially appreciate the Mexican fine cuisine, culture, attactive looks etc. What I do mind is the attitude of the illegals there, that feel that because at one time half of America was Mexico, then they still own it.

Nope sorry, those days are over, that is why it is called History.

Oh and build a wall... well I guess we will have to settle for a fence.

[highdiver]

In America, it is not uncommon to see the Bean Burrito & hamburger on the menu. I don't mind that. What I do mind, is if I call a bank, and I get a recorded message, and the first language on the message is in.... Spanish! When that happens, I question if I dialed Mexico or something????

Can you guess why the first language on the message at the bank was in Spanish? I wonder which customers they treasure most and why.

In any case, Bean Burritos are not Mexican, they're a tex-mex invention... and, Mexico is in America, and so is the USA.

Oh, and pretty much half the USA used to be Mexico, I hope it doesn't bother you that cities and states have ... Spanish! names, such as: Colorado, California, Boca Raton, Cabo Cañaveral, El Paso, Florida, Fresno, Las Cruces, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Los Gatos, Montana (from Montaña), San Antonio, Nevada, San Francisco, Sangre de Cristo Mountains, Santa Fe, Texas, and the list goes on... But hey, those dirty Mexicans are taking over your country; better build a wall fast!

Hasta la vista...

No I don't mind that we purchased or extorted half of Mexico. I especially appreciate the Mexican fine cuisine, culture, attactive looks etc. What I do mind is the attitude of the illegals there, that feel that because at one time half of America was Mexico, then they still own it.

Nope sorry, those days are over, that is why it is called History.

Oh and build a wall... well I guess we will have to settle for a fence.

I think thailand should include in the report the racist forigners residing in Thailand and how the view other cultures. it should not be difficult all they need is to coppy many of the posts on this forum.

i think it will be a first time in the world where a minority of forigners are actually racist against the majority population.

[Dakhar]

In regards to the banking issue. I too am perplexed.

Yes I realize parts of America "used" to be old Mexico. The operative word there is "used" to be, as is, was, but no longer is....

As far as the names of cities and states... good point, maybe that should be changed to reflect a more modern America? I don't know though, I kinda like the names how they are.

[Flysiam]

I think thailand should include in the report the racist forigners residing in Thailand and how the view other cultures. it should not be difficult all they need is to coppy many of the posts on this forum.

i think it will be a first time in the world where a minority of forigners are actually racist against the majority population.

Truely amazing.......

[haroldc]

What a joke. No racism in Thailand? Apparently the government didn't bother reading the convention they agreed to. Different minimum salaries for different nationalities is racism according to the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. Never mind. This is Thailand.

From the UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination.

Article I

1. In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

It's not a joke. It's an outright lie. My boys, Thai citizens, are barred from even applying to any military school (Rongrien Triam Tahaan) because I, their father, am not a Thai citizen.

[Laughing Gravy]

Its only the politically correct who expound their theories on racisim and why, in their eyes, it is wrong. Thailand are quite open about their No 1 desrie to protect their own nationals first, others next. Is that a problem?

Why - in the UK the Police Force, that highly respected bastion of British life, are now considering discriminating against whites, i.e. inherently true British, in favour of Blacks and Asians. So to those do-gooders - what goes round, comes round so look forward in a few years time to your the weekends being officially Thur/Fri and having your traditional family weekend pub lunch of a pint and BBQ goat ! Oh yes forget your bacon buns.

You can read more here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6570545.stm

This is quite perverse in my opinion and maybe goes someway to explain the disillusionment that has resulted in many 100's of thousands of British leaving the UK due to crackpot policies over the years.

Let us hope that Thailand maintains it's traditional stance. As a guest of Thailand for 20 years it is nice to see that Thailand is still predominently Thai, and may it remain that way.

Maybe the op hasn't been in the UK for a long time as a resident, but the UK is now a multi-cultural society, whether we agree or not. The reason the police force (the so called bastion of British life) is positively discriminating against whites is that proportionally other sectors of the community are under represented.

We can debate all day about the pros or cons of having other nationalities in the UK or not. The fact is we do, we needed a work force in the 1950s and the rest is history.

I can't agree with you gummy about Thailand taking a traditional stance and staying Thai. There must be give and take. At the moment I just see Thailand, as taking. The concept of keeping everything nationalistic just reminds me a bit like the Nazis.

Another great comment mentioned before is about many Thais not realising that they are racist. This I would have to agree with. It is so ingrained into society that they don't even realise the way they behave is racist. Very much like when I was a boy in the UK and people called black dolls n***** dolls. It was racist, people just didnt know.

Utter rubbish. The UK has an almost democratic electoral system. If those so beloved "under represented" groups of yours wish to have a greater representation in UK affairs then this should be done through the electoral system, not the back door approach by politically motivated do-gooders, none of whom who has the retention of true Britishness at heart. It is prattle like you describe that has seen the fabric of Britishness go down the pan over the last 50 years. That is a proven fact as even this current UK governement has recognised something must be done, just unfortunate that they are incompetent or unwilling to make hard decisions.

Further, to attempt to liken racism with nationalism is a profound mockery, again only attempted by the do-gooders and politically correct people - or so they wish to appear. Biggest example of this hypocrisy is the treatment of travellers, or Gypsies in the UK, even local authorities, 99.9% of the residents and certainly many MPs don't have time for them or their welfare. Why not let this minority group be represented in the police force ? well we know why don't we -no chance of votes or honours for the supporters of them !!

You are now even suggesting that Thais are racist through ignorance, even attempting, poorly, to equate Thailand to Nazi Germany.

Well firstly yes I do suggest that Thais are racist through ignorance. They do have a distinct class and caste system, although they just don't see it. As equating it poorly to the nazis, I was equating that to your comment of "lets hope Thailand maintains its traditional stance and may it remain that way" We could discuss the very same ideology made by the Germans before the second world war, but that would be for another topic.

As for your saying that "those so beloved "under represented" groups of yours. I am a white European. But whether you like it or not and it seems from your writing you don't, the UK is fast becoming a multi cultural society. An example for you is when I was at schoool some 30 years ago there was 1 ethnic person in the class. he was from Kenya. now in the same school there are over 45% from Ethnic or mixed race children. Soon it will be more. So my point is this. We are not a white nation any more. So we should live with it and move with the times.

Using the concept of a democartic vote to get in the electoral system or as you put it "in the back door" is a mockery. That's what happened in South Arica and other countries until near civil war broke out. the Uk does a pretty good job in my opinion at being a multicultural society and having representation in all of it's important jobs is important. How many gypies want to be in the police force. From my knowledge zero.

Anyway I think I know where you are coming from. You are the person who says that he isn't racist and he doesnt mind black people etc. As long as they don't take our jobs, girls and country. It is to late for that we are integrated, whether you like it or not.

Very well integrated. That is why 5 children of immigrants thought it would be a good idea to murder 52 people in July 2005. How long does it take to become integrated? 1 generation 2 or until the entire indigenous population has been murdered ? Go back to sticking your head in the idealistic bucket of sand. As you say you were at school only 30 years ago which is the generation that bore the fruits of poorly thought out teachings that bred the do-gooders of today like yourself. As I said before, it won't be too long before you can enjoy your BBQ goat with a pint on Friday weekend lunchtime.

It is racist view like the one your projecting with draconian conatations, that has escalated racial hatred in the UK. I am not idealistic just reaslistic and optomistic. As I mentioned before in the UK there are different ethnicities. Fact. So we can do a two things. Creat a divide or learn to get on and live with each other. It is too late for going back. The UK invited people from other countries over when they needed a workforce. Then in the the 1970s, when their was high unemployment, many people decided, the Enoch Powell idealogy and wanted, now British citizens to leave.

Tell me what is wrong with all living together, with different religions and cultures? I do it quite successfully here as many others do. Whats wrong with having BBQ goat, we eat cow and pig? Whats the issue here? The idea is get on with things as long as each person does not infringe other peoples life. It is too late to go back, we can only go forward. What do you want, split the UK into seperate states and the whites can life in one place, the blacks in an other and the mixed race in another etc ? Why don't we put a wall up while we are at it?

I always wonder why people feel so threatened by integration.

Edited April 22, 2007 by Laughing Gravy

[gummy]

Its only the politically correct who expound their theories on racisim and why, in their eyes, it is wrong. Thailand are quite open about their No 1 desrie to protect their own nationals first, others next. Is that a problem?

Why - in the UK the Police Force, that highly respected bastion of British life, are now considering discriminating against whites, i.e. inherently true British, in favour of Blacks and Asians. So to those do-gooders - what goes round, comes round so look forward in a few years time to your the weekends being officially Thur/Fri and having your traditional family weekend pub lunch of a pint and BBQ goat ! Oh yes forget your bacon buns.

You can read more here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6570545.stm

This is quite perverse in my opinion and maybe goes someway to explain the disillusionment that has resulted in many 100's of thousands of British leaving the UK due to crackpot policies over the years.

Let us hope that Thailand maintains it's traditional stance. As a guest of Thailand for 20 years it is nice to see that Thailand is still predominently Thai, and may it remain that way.

Maybe the op hasn't been in the UK for a long time as a resident, but the UK is now a multi-cultural society, whether we agree or not. The reason the police force (the so called bastion of British life) is positively discriminating against whites is that proportionally other sectors of the community are under represented.

We can debate all day about the pros or cons of having other nationalities in the UK or not. The fact is we do, we needed a work force in the 1950s and the rest is history.

I can't agree with you gummy about Thailand taking a traditional stance and staying Thai. There must be give and take. At the moment I just see Thailand, as taking. The concept of keeping everything nationalistic just reminds me a bit like the Nazis.

Another great comment mentioned before is about many Thais not realising that they are racist. This I would have to agree with. It is so ingrained into society that they don't even realise the way they behave is racist. Very much like when I was a boy in the UK and people called black dolls n***** dolls. It was racist, people just didnt know.

Utter rubbish. The UK has an almost democratic electoral system. If those so beloved "under represented" groups of yours wish to have a greater representation in UK affairs then this should be done through the electoral system, not the back door approach by politically motivated do-gooders, none of whom who has the retention of true Britishness at heart. It is prattle like you describe that has seen the fabric of Britishness go down the pan over the last 50 years. That is a proven fact as even this current UK governement has recognised something must be done, just unfortunate that they are incompetent or unwilling to make hard decisions.

Further, to attempt to liken racism with nationalism is a profound mockery, again only attempted by the do-gooders and politically correct people - or so they wish to appear. Biggest example of this hypocrisy is the treatment of travellers, or Gypsies in the UK, even local authorities, 99.9% of the residents and certainly many MPs don't have time for them or their welfare. Why not let this minority group be represented in the police force ? well we know why don't we -no chance of votes or honours for the supporters of them !!

You are now even suggesting that Thais are racist through ignorance, even attempting, poorly, to equate Thailand to Nazi Germany.

Well firstly yes I do suggest that Thais are racist through ignorance. They do have a distinct class and caste system, although they just don't see it. As equating it poorly to the nazis, I was equating that to your comment of "lets hope Thailand maintains its traditional stance and may it remain that way" We could discuss the very same ideology made by the Germans before the second world war, but that would be for another topic.

As for your saying that "those so beloved "under represented" groups of yours. I am a white European. But whether you like it or not and it seems from your writing you don't, the UK is fast becoming a multi cultural society. An example for you is when I was at schoool some 30 years ago there was 1 ethnic person in the class. he was from Kenya. now in the same school there are over 45% from Ethnic or mixed race children. Soon it will be more. So my point is this. We are not a white nation any more. So we should live with it and move with the times.

Using the concept of a democartic vote to get in the electoral system or as you put it "in the back door" is a mockery. That's what happened in South Arica and other countries until near civil war broke out. the Uk does a pretty good job in my opinion at being a multicultural society and having representation in all of it's important jobs is important. How many gypies want to be in the police force. From my knowledge zero.

Anyway I think I know where you are coming from. You are the person who says that he isn't racist and he doesnt mind black people etc. As long as they don't take our jobs, girls and country. It is to late for that we are integrated, whether you like it or not.

Very well integrated. That is why 5 children of immigrants thought it would be a good idea to murder 52 people in July 2005. How long does it take to become integrated? 1 generation 2 or until the entire indigenous population has been murdered ? Go back to sticking your head in the idealistic bucket of sand. As you say you were at school only 30 years ago which is the generation that bore the fruits of poorly thought out teachings that bred the do-gooders of today like yourself. As I said before, it won't be too long before you can enjoy your BBQ goat with a pint on Friday weekend lunchtime.

It is racist view like the one your projecting with draconian conatations, that has escalated racial hatred in the UK. I am not idealistic just reaslistic and optomistic. As I mentioned before in the UK there are different ethnicities. Fact. So we can do a two things. Creat a divide or learn to get on and live with each other. It is too late for going back. The UK invited people from other countries over when they needed a workforce. Then in the the 1970s, when their was high unemployment, many people decided, the Enoch Powell idealogy and wanted, now British citizens to leave.

Tell me what is wrong with all living together, with different religions and cultures? I do it quite successfully here as many others do. Whats wrong with having BBQ goat, we eat cow and pig? Whats the issue here? The idea is get on with things as long as each person does not infringe other peoples life. It is too late to go back, we can only go forward. What do you want, split the UK into seperate states and the whites can life in one place, the blacks in an other and the mixed race in another etc ? Why don't we put a wall up while we are at it?

I always wonder why people feel so threatened by integration.

Read the report by Civilate in yesterdays UK media. After you have done that wake up, remove your rose tinted spectacles and then, if you have got property and relatives in the UK, spend the next few months figuring out how you are going to ensure their safety and security in the longer term. It is you that should wake up and remove your head from the sand. If both main political parties are now publicaly voicing concern, only the stupid and naive would disagree. For those of us that voiced our concern back in the early 1950; unfortunately we now have to say "we told you so" primarily due to the do-gooders and naive people, which to this day still exist. When further serious problems do arise, that group of people will be the first spineless collection of individuals expecting protection.

And to re-cap on your other point if the UK controlled their immigration in a similar manner to Thailand than they ( the UK ) would not now be facing this predicament.

[jaidam]

I think thailand should include in the report the racist forigners residing in Thailand and how the view other cultures. it should not be difficult all they need is to coppy many of the posts on this forum.

i think it will be a first time in the world where a minority of forigners are actually racist against the majority population.

Truely amazing.......

Yes its amazing. That these 2 trolls(including his mate Goon - that name is a certain giveaway) have been on Thaivisa so long without a permanent holiday. Whats the chances they are fellow westerners playing devils advocate. I'm guessing its a near cert.

As regards the racism issue, the very fact that there are different minimum salaries for various other countries nationals......

[cdnvic]

Yes its amazing. That these 2 trolls(including his mate Goon - that name is a certain giveaway) have been on Thaivisa so long without a permanent holiday. Whats the chances they are fellow westerners playing devils advocate. I'm guessing its a near cert.

"I'm a student in America" does conveniently explain the non-Thai IP address.

[Arkady]

One MAJOR difference, in the US the governmental system of checks and balances is bringing these people to account for their actions. In the US there are laws prohibiting this behavior. In Thailand this ever happens. For example, if a US Merchant tried to double prices goods and services based on race and nationality he would be in court. They took the big insurance down for that policy a few years ago. In Thailand the word is, "This is Thailand".

By the same token, I'm an international student in America. My tuition fees are always higher than those of state residents. Is that some kind of racism as well? Where are the US laws that prohibit this kind of behavior? I'm just curious. Or this is America?

Americans from other states also have to pay the higher fees too. If you were a legal alien resident in that state with a green card, you would qualify for the state resident fees without being a US national. They are not discriminating against you on grounds of nationality or race. In Thailand even look krung who are Thai nationals or farangs who are naturalised Thais are asked to pay the foreign price at national parks and government museums on the basis of their facial features.

[Francis Maube]

Having spent the last 30 years working, living and travelling overseas through something around 50 countries, I can safely say that racist is not only alive and well but it is probably increasing.

I do not think LOS is any different than any other countries and is probably better if you consider that a Thai is suspicious of any stranger, being Thai or foreigner.

[hecky]

Its only the politically correct who expound their theories on racisim and why, in their eyes, it is wrong. Thailand are quite open about their No 1 desrie to protect their own nationals first, others next. Is that a problem?

Why - in the UK the Police Force, that highly respected bastion of British life, are now considering discriminating against whites, i.e. inherently true British, in favour of Blacks and Asians. So to those do-gooders - what goes round, comes round so look forward in a few years time to your the weekends being officially Thur/Fri and having your traditional family weekend pub lunch of a pint and BBQ goat ! Oh yes forget your bacon buns.

You can read more here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6570545.stm

This is quite perverse in my opinion and maybe goes someway to explain the disillusionment that has resulted in many 100's of thousands of British leaving the UK due to crackpot policies over the years.

Let us hope that Thailand maintains it's traditional stance. As a guest of Thailand for 20 years it is nice to see that Thailand is still predominently Thai, and may it remain that way.

Maybe the op hasn't been in the UK for a long time as a resident, but the UK is now a multi-cultural society, whether we agree or not. The reason the police force (the so called bastion of British life) is positively discriminating against whites is that proportionally other sectors of the community are under represented.

We can debate all day about the pros or cons of having other nationalities in the UK or not. The fact is we do, we needed a work force in the 1950s and the rest is history.

I can't agree with you gummy about Thailand taking a traditional stance and staying Thai. There must be give and take. At the moment I just see Thailand, as taking. The concept of keeping everything nationalistic just reminds me a bit like the Nazis.

Another great comment mentioned before is about many Thais not realising that they are racist. This I would have to agree with. It is so ingrained into society that they don't even realise the way they behave is racist. Very much like when I was a boy in the UK and people called black dolls n***** dolls. It was racist, people just didnt know.

Utter rubbish. The UK has an almost democratic electoral system. If those so beloved "under represented" groups of yours wish to have a greater representation in UK affairs then this should be done through the electoral system, not the back door approach by politically motivated do-gooders, none of whom who has the retention of true Britishness at heart. It is prattle like you describe that has seen the fabric of Britishness go down the pan over the last 50 years. That is a proven fact as even this current UK governement has recognised something must be done, just unfortunate that they are incompetent or unwilling to make hard decisions.

Further, to attempt to liken racism with nationalism is a profound mockery, again only attempted by the do-gooders and politically correct people - or so they wish to appear. Biggest example of this hypocrisy is the treatment of travellers, or Gypsies in the UK, even local authorities, 99.9% of the residents and certainly many MPs don't have time for them or their welfare. Why not let this minority group be represented in the police force ? well we know why don't we -no chance of votes or honours for the supporters of them !!

You are now even suggesting that Thais are racist through ignorance, even attempting, poorly, to equate Thailand to Nazi Germany.

Well firstly yes I do suggest that Thais are racist through ignorance. They do have a distinct class and caste system, although they just don't see it. As equating it poorly to the nazis, I was equating that to your comment of "lets hope Thailand maintains its traditional stance and may it remain that way" We could discuss the very same ideology made by the Germans before the second world war, but that would be for another topic.

As for your saying that "those so beloved "under represented" groups of yours. I am a white European. But whether you like it or not and it seems from your writing you don't, the UK is fast becoming a multi cultural society. An example for you is when I was at schoool some 30 years ago there was 1 ethnic person in the class. he was from Kenya. now in the same school there are over 45% from Ethnic or mixed race children. Soon it will be more. So my point is this. We are not a white nation any more. So we should live with it and move with the times.

Using the concept of a democartic vote to get in the electoral system or as you put it "in the back door" is a mockery. That's what happened in South Arica and other countries until near civil war broke out. the Uk does a pretty good job in my opinion at being a multicultural society and having representation in all of it's important jobs is important. How many gypies want to be in the police force. From my knowledge zero.

Anyway I think I know where you are coming from. You are the person who says that he isn't racist and he doesnt mind black people etc. As long as they don't take our jobs, girls and country. It is to late for that we are integrated, whether you like it or not.

Very well integrated. That is why 5 children of immigrants thought it would be a good idea to murder 52 people in July 2005. How long does it take to become integrated? 1 generation 2 or until the entire indigenous population has been murdered ? Go back to sticking your head in the idealistic bucket of sand. As you say you were at school only 30 years ago which is the generation that bore the fruits of poorly thought out teachings that bred the do-gooders of today like yourself. As I said before, it won't be too long before you can enjoy your BBQ goat with a pint on Friday weekend lunchtime.

It is racist view like the one your projecting with draconian conatations, that has escalated racial hatred in the UK. I am not idealistic just reaslistic and optomistic. As I mentioned before in the UK there are different ethnicities. Fact. So we can do a two things. Creat a divide or learn to get on and live with each other. It is too late for going back. The UK invited people from other countries over when they needed a workforce. Then in the the 1970s, when their was high unemployment, many people decided, the Enoch Powell idealogy and wanted, now British citizens to leave.

Tell me what is wrong with all living together, with different religions and cultures? I do it quite successfully here as many others do. Whats wrong with having BBQ goat, we eat cow and pig? Whats the issue here? The idea is get on with things as long as each person does not infringe other peoples life. It is too late to go back, we can only go forward. What do you want, split the UK into seperate states and the whites can life in one place, the blacks in an other and the mixed race in another etc ? Why don't we put a wall up while we are at it?

I always wonder why people feel so threatened by integration.

from my experience of the UK the intergration is a problem the immigrants seem to have, more over the Muslim Community. They do not and will not intergrate. If you notice afro carrabeans and people from India intergrate well, it is the Muslim community who do not intergrate and it is this community the police have the biggest problems with.

[mogoso]

One MAJOR difference, in the US the governmental system of checks and balances is bringing these people to account for their actions. In the US there are laws prohibiting this behavior. In Thailand this ever happens. For example, if a US Merchant tried to double prices goods and services based on race and nationality he would be in court. They took the big insurance down for that policy a few years ago. In Thailand the word is, "This is Thailand".

By the same token, I'm an international student in America. My tuition fees are always higher than those of state residents. Is that some kind of racism as well? Where are the US laws that prohibit this kind of behavior? I'm just curious. Or this is America?

I grew up in arizona, went to the university of Missouri and paid out of state fees. State universities are first and foremost for state students. As for Katrina...the Mayor was help up in a posh hotel and refused to released the hundreds of buses to evacuate the affected areas...teh governor is head of the National guard of that state and she has to be the one to release the state national guard. It was GWB who, in affect, had to prod her to do so. She was expecting federal troops and not relying on her own state troops who there and ready. compare this to Denver had had those three Class III (the highest and worst, I believe) which could have shut down the state and destroyed it but somehow they managed. Or Florida which get hit every month, it seems, by a natural disaster and somehow they seem to manage it. Local government have the first responsibility to react because they are closest to the situation. As well, the President cannot acctive any national guard with a governor's approval and also must seek her consent to send in federal troops. There is a military base in Lousiana but the both the mayor and the governor did not ask for their assistance. How come the rest of the nation can deal with natural disasters and not Lousiana...because they are considered to be the most corrupt state in the union...corrupt police force...corrupt local governing agencies...ect. It is controlled by Democrats...what would you expect.

Many states allow illegal immigrants to pay instate tuition even though they attended high school in a different state. America ya gotta love it, politically correctness at work in our poltically correct schools.

[bonobo]

I am not sure how a post on a national response to racism moved into racism in theh US and the UK.  But since it did, let me post.

First of all, racism in any country does not make it OK in another.  Racism is racism, and despite all the ranting about "protecting the nation," it is insidious and harmful.

As far as the US and the UK (and many other nations), yes, racism exists in individuals. It probably exists in most individuals worldwide to some extent or the other. But the offical organs of the nation, the government, have enacted rules and regulations to combat the effects of racism, and these steps give victims of racism redress and serve to keep discrimination at bay.

Thais, in my opinion, are no more nor no less racist than people from many other nations as individuals. However, the government has not evolved to the point yet where disc

imination is considered wrong, nor are there ways to prtect against discriminati

n.

Cultures are different, to be sure, as pointed out in a few posts. Does that make it right? The RSA was forced to change apartheid. Wasn't apartheid part of their culture (at least of the ruling class)?  Is it OK for an 18-year-old Pakastani girl to be raped as punishment for her 12-year-old brother talking to a 13-year-old girl?  That is their tribal culture.

Regardless, culture or not, for an official statement to come out and state that there really is no racial problem in Thailand is rather disengenuous.

I love Thailand, and I love the people.  I have chosen to throw my lot in with the nation. But to ignore things like racism and Bangkok traffic and even little things like the inability to find a real good hamburger is ignoring the total situation.  And guess what? There are tons of things I don't like about my home nation either. The current administration, the high cost of real estate, the inability to find real good bawmee gao--but I still love my home country, too.

[gummy]

Mogoso,

You are factually incorrect which may be part do to your lack of UK knowledge, specifically of crime figures. The highest rate of recorded crime commited by any ethnic group is within the black migrant communities. Muslims do indicate that they have no wish to integrate and it would appear from recent times that it this ethnic group which provides the majority of actual or suspected terrorists within the UK to date, excluding that is the previous N Ireland/IRA terrorists, which as we all know have all been forgiven and have been elected to the UK parliment in some instances.

Longway,

I anticipate from your last reply that you have but limited understanding of the immigration issues or you are unable to comprehend simplistic facts or perhaps it is both together with you are also in self denial.

Therefore can I suggest you read the following link from todays UK Telegraph :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...4/22/do2207.xml

Edited April 22, 2007 by gummy

[endure]

This thread is now veering wildly off-topic and off-Thailand. Unless it returns quickly back on topic it will be closed.

[Arkady]

OK, many Western nations have horrible histories of racism, notably slavery, lynching in the US, the genocide of indigenous people in N America, Australia and New Zealand, racist laws and regulations in European colonies, the holocaust. Today most have detailed laws against racism, although it may still go on unofficially. On the other hand there are many lawsuits now successfully brought against employers and others in the West for racial and other forms of discrimination and the laws are actively being enforced.

If the report is the for the UN, it should be done on international standards to be useful to its readers without taking into account different definitions of racism in Aia or other parts of the world. I think the terms of reference are very explicit, so there should be no need for any cultural misunderstanding. No doubt the government wants to do a whitewash job to save face like it tried to when Thailand got the boot from the UN Human Rights Commission but the areas of government racial discrimination I would point to are:

- systematic denial of Thai citiizenship, education and general human rights to hill tribe people born in Thailand

- the same re people of Indochinese origin born here to refugee parents

- poor treatment of workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia

- dual pricing at government museums, national parks etc

- human rights abuses against Malays in the South of Thailand for the last 100 years or so

- not allowing Malay as an official working language in government offices in the South

- appointing non-Malays from other areas to all senior government jobs in the South

- different wage levels required for different nationalities to get work permits.

Examples of non-governmental racial discrimination would be :

- employers only considering ethnic Chinese for white collar jobs (I have seen this first hand)

- bars telling blacks they have to pay a members fee

- bars telling Thais the same thing

- bars telling farangs they are for Japanese only

- hotels or guestouses refusing to accept Thai guests

- dual pricing

- central Thais looking down on Isan people.

Other types of discrimination include sexual discrimation:

- rape law which doesn't recognize rape of a woman by her husband

- allowing foreign women married to Thai men to apply for citizenship without becoming a permanent resident and with no employment requirement but not allowing foreign men married to Thai women to do the same.

There is also widespread discrimination against disabled people.

I am not suggesting farang countries have no problems with discrimination. They certainly do. But the issue is discrimination in Thailand

[bonobo]

This thread has actually changed my mind about one thing.  I have always considered the dual pricing for parks and such to be racism.  But the posts about in-state and out-of-state tuition flipped a switch in me.

The stated reason for two different tuition rates is that those who pay taxes to a state are already paying for that state university. So an in-state student is only paying for his or her incremental cost.  An out-of-state student does not pay taxes to that state, so he or she should not only pay for his or her incremental costs, but also shoulder some of the total cost of running the school.

Using the same logic, a Thai national, paying taxes, already supports the parks. A foreigner, especially a visitor, does not pay those taxes, so he or she should pay more for the same visit.

True, other most other nations do not do the same thing. But the logic is still there.

[cdnvic]

OK, many Western nations have horrible histories of racism, notably slavery, lynching in the US, the genocide of indigenous people in N America, Australia and New Zealand

I would like to see evidence of this genocide in New Zealand or Canada.

Besides, we're supposed to be dealing with Thailand's fitness to prepare a report on racism. I think there has been more than enough evidence shown regarding Thailand's own laws that it's certainly an odd choice of author.

[Arkady]

This thread has actually changed my mind about one thing.  I have always considered the dual pricing for parks and such to be racism.  But the posts about in-state and out-of-state tuition flipped a switch in me.

The stated reason for two different tuition rates is that those who pay taxes to a state are already paying for that state university. So an in-state student is only paying for his or her incremental cost.  An out-of-state student does not pay taxes to that state, so he or she should not only pay for his or her incremental costs, but also shoulder some of the total cost of running the school.

Using the same logic, a Thai national, paying taxes, already supports the parks. A foreigner, especially a visitor, does not pay those taxes, so he or she should pay more for the same visit.

True, other most other nations do not do the same thing. But the logic is still there.

There may be a similarity but I think it is generally accepted around the world that nations provide state education to their nationals free or at a subsidised rate because they have a limited budget to educate a given number of people. If they made it open to all, countries with desirable education systems may be flooded with people from overseas coming for a good, cheap education. I don't think Thailand lets foreigners attend its state schools and universities paying the national rate. Hill tribe children and children of refugees born here don't get secondary school educations at all because they don't have Thai ID cards. Charging extra for foreigners at national parks and museums is done in a sleazy way by putting the Thai price in Thai numerals with no explanation in Thai that this is for Thais only but, if you can read it, and hold out the 20 baht for a ticket, you will be told rudely that it is for Thais only. You can justify it on grounds of tax but actually most Thais pay no income tax. They all have to pay VAT but then so do foreign tourists and some may pay more VAT in a two week visit than most Thais pay in a year. Personally I accept the dual pricing as the government's right but I think the sleazy way it is done and the huge amount of the differential is counter productive. Most of these venues are supposed to attract tourists but the negative publicity on dual pricing does harm to the tourist industry. There are many cases of tour buses turning back from national parks because the tourists refused to pay the foreign rate. I think if it were done more openly and the foreigner price was only double the local rate, it would cause much less bad will. I know that it is possible to negotiate with the ticket sellers by showing them a tax ID card, driving licence or just being able to speak Thai. However, I now avoid these places completely because I find the whole thing irritating and I expect that many others do the same. It is a relatively trivial issue that causes a lot of dissatisfaction among foreign tourists. I would seriously doubt that the incremental revenue earned from the dual pricing makes up for revenue lost due to tourists who don't come to Thailand because of the bad publicity.

[StateSix]

This thread has actually changed my mind about one thing.  I have always considered the dual pricing for parks and such to be racism.  But the posts about in-state and out-of-state tuition flipped a switch in me.

The stated reason for two different tuition rates is that those who pay taxes to a state are already paying for that state university. So an in-state student is only paying for his or her incremental cost.  An out-of-state student does not pay taxes to that state, so he or she should not only pay for his or her incremental costs, but also shoulder some of the total cost of running the school.

Using the same logic, a Thai national, paying taxes, already supports the parks. A foreigner, especially a visitor, does not pay those taxes, so he or she should pay more for the same visit.

True, other most other nations do not do the same thing. But the logic is still there.

You are wrong. Using the same logic, non Thai nationals who work here and pay tax should get in at the reduced price as they also support the parks. In practice they have a sign saying Thai price, and Foreigner price, and automatically charge people who don't look Thai the inflated rate. The signs should say Thai Nationals and Thai Income Tax Payers pay the reduced price. Admittedly, most, though not all, places will charge you the reduced rate if you produce your tax card/work permit.

[asiaworld]

well 'ladies' , i can feel the pain .. so why don't somebody tell, where this report is going to, so some of you can forward all the relevant complaints to 'the party concerned', ie. where that repeport is prepared for maybe than those problems will get noticed . just a thought !

[bonobo]

This thread has actually changed my mind about one thing.  I have always considered the dual pricing for parks and such to be racism.  But the posts about in-state and out-of-state tuition flipped a switch in me.

The stated reason for two different tuition rates is that those who pay taxes to a state are already paying for that state university. So an in-state student is only paying for his or her incremental cost.  An out-of-state student does not pay taxes to that state, so he or she should not only pay for his or her incremental costs, but also shoulder some of the total cost of running the school.

Using the same logic, a Thai national, paying taxes, already supports the parks. A foreigner, especially a visitor, does not pay those taxes, so he or she should pay more for the same visit.

True, other most other nations do not do the same thing. But the logic is still there.

You are wrong. Using the same logic, non Thai nationals who work here and pay tax should get in at the reduced price as they also support the parks. In practice they have a sign saying Thai price, and Foreigner price, and automatically charge people who don't look Thai the inflated rate. The signs should say Thai Nationals and Thai Income Tax Payers pay the reduced price. Admittedly, most, though not all, places will charge you the reduced rate if you produce your tax card/work permit.

No, I am not wrong.  I stated that I had changed my mind, and that is a fact, and one to which only I can attest. And my logic is reasonable. The fact that they will back down if youprpoduce your work tax card/work permit lends credence to my logic, even if it can be flawed in execution.

Now, you may disagree with my logic. You may have another conclusion. But that does not make you right or wrong.

[StateSix]

from my experience of the UK the intergration is a problem the immigrants seem to have, more over the Muslim Community. They do not and will not intergrate. If you notice afro carrabeans and people from India intergrate well, it is the Muslim community who do not intergrate and it is this community the police have the biggest problems with.

The police do not have the biggest problems with the muslim community at all. The police have the biggest problem with the white 'community', specifically those of the chav underclass. As a general rule, the majority of the muslim community were fairly helpful, although slightly distrustful, of the police and are law abiding.

[StateSix]

Mogoso,

You are factually incorrect which may be part do to your lack of UK knowledge, specifically of crime figures. The highest rate of recorded crime commited by any ethnic group is within the black migrant communities. Muslims do indicate that they have no wish to integrate and it would appear from recent times that it this ethnic group which provides the majority of actual or suspected terrorists within the UK to date, excluding that is the previous N Ireland/IRA terrorists, which as we all know have all been forgiven and have been elected to the UK parliment in some instances.

Longway,

I anticipate from your last reply that you have but limited understanding of the immigration issues or you are unable to comprehend simplistic facts or perhaps it is both together with you are also in self denial.

Therefore can I suggest you read the following link from todays UK Telegraph :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...4/22/do2207.xml

Crime figures in the UK are recorded using the 16+1 system now (16 self identified groups, plus 'not stated'). The highest rate of recorded crime commited by any ethnic group is by the White ethnic group (comprising, British, Irish, Any other White Background). The percentage of recorded crime committed by persons of the Black ethnic group and M1 (White and Black Carribean), and M2 (White and Black African) groups, who I assume you are referring to by "black migrant communities', as a percentage of the overall Black, M1 and M2 communites, is probably higher. However there are a number of sociological reasons for this, statistically they are more likely to be unemployed, have lower incomes etc. Most crime committed by Whites are committed by people from a similar social background.

It isn't quite as simple as get rid of the immigrants, get rid of crime.

[longway]

Longway,

I anticipate from your last reply that you have but limited understanding of the immigration issues or you are unable to comprehend simplistic facts or perhaps it is both together with you are also in self denial.

i see so hv a limited understanding and/or unable to comprehend issues and am in self denial. well i guess that qualifies me as one of the top-end TV posters then. cheers

[dude007]

And what about the tier pricing for National parks and historical sites entry fees? Mainly based on the color of the skin (farang).

For me it's clear, they have it in their genes...

[mittheimp]

i remember my mother in law in England - she came over to our wedding - and at a polite family meal her being asked if she likes London - "no, too many Black and Indian people - i don't like them' came the reply. An uncomfortable silence by everyone - and a look of pure astonishment and embarrassment from my wife. Her mother had absolutely no idea what she said might be controversial! She has probably never met an Indian or Black person in her life! I dont think Thailand is any more racist than most Asian countries though. Korea for example, takes the nationalist superiority and hatred of certain nations and races to a much higher level.

So, countries that have a genuine multicultural history and a decent level of education tend to be the least racist - no surprise there. Racism is borne of ignorance!

[longway]

And what about the tier pricing for National parks and historical sites entry fees? Mainly based on the color of the skin (farang).

For me it's clear, they have it in their genes...

this of course is NOT racism.

ok ok i know, rose coloured glasses head in the sand, sorry.

Edited April 23, 2007 by longway

[asiaworld]

And what about the tier pricing for National parks and historical sites entry fees? Mainly based on the color of the skin (farang).

For me it's clear, they have it in their genes...

NOPE !! i've seen & fought that stuff off myself, i'm white,but using thai DL try to pass off as thai .. my chinese friend, still gets overcharged ! no excuse ( maybe skin too white ) same goes 4 japs as well , don'tthink ther any better off ! just less thais stare @ them maybe !

Edited April 24, 2007 by asiaworld