Visa agent experiences

[Olmate]

14 minutes ago, AndyPa said:

What about next year when you go to through regular immigration and the officer asks you for bank statements from last year. Busted!

If you go regular as you put it,you will need the normal bank and other requirements ,as in any other extension.

[Orton Rd]

On 6/15/2020 at 4:29 PM, baansgr said:

Most extensions are at the "discretion" of the IO so nothing illegal going on...years ago when passports were sent to other countries or borders etc that was illegal.

When they are excercising this so called discretion ONLY when they recieve about 10k for doing so that is corrpution, no two ways about it, but those getting an extension by paying for these bribes will always argue it's legal

[Peterw42]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

For sake of clarity: It is perfectly legal to use a Visa agent to do the legwork for you.

Many people use them as they do not like the often long waits at the Immigration office, the perceived stress and insecurity of your application being checked by a sometimes grumpy officer, and to avoid having to come back because of some missing or incomplete documents.

What is NOT legit is using an agent to 'fix' some requirements for you that you are not able to meet (the most common being no or insufficient proof of financials).

The risk is (very) small that you will suffer any consequences when doing so, but stating that it is legit because you did get the approval stamp in your passport is absolutely incorrect, but it is not 100% risk-free as retirees have been deported when an audit at their IO revealed that they got their Visa or extension without meeting the the requirements (and obviously that was also Game Over for the agent and complicit immigration officer).

I don't want to scare-monger, but those using or consider using a fixer-agent should be aware that it is not completely risk-free.

Note: And this is not a 'moral judgement' from my part, because I would not hesitate using a fixer-agent if I was unable to meet the requirements and I had no other options.

Do you have any links etc to cases where a retiree has been deported and the IO sacked ????

 

I cant recall ever seeing such a report.

[Olmate]

6 minutes ago, pineapple01 said:

Has it crossed anyone's mind that their Clients shouldn't be here anyway. An Agent is extremely usefull to those with mobility problems and meet the Financial requirements for their type of Visa. The only good point of us having jump through the Visa Hoops is to keep the Bums OUT.

Maybe all the Bums have mobility problems then!

[Enzian]

I'm grateful for the low numbers of infections here, but... sometimes I wish they WOULD throw me out of this country. I'd go buy a right to stay I've heard about from Portugal, spend my final days wandering around the art museums of Europe, and eff this place.

[Peter Denis]

11 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Do you have any links etc to cases where a retiree has been deported and the IO sacked ????

I cant recall ever seeing such a report.

Yes I have, but received the case PM as part of a similar 'legit or not' discussion.

Have contacted the (very knowledgeable) TVF member that provided me with the info, and will share when he provides me permission (he might have his reasons - which I respect - for not doing so).

Edited June 20, 2020 by Peter Denis

[pineapple01]

Just now, Olmate said:

Maybe all the Bums have mobility problems then!

Lifes Dregs have places for them and their problems back home.

[AndyPa]

14 minutes ago, Olmate said:

If you go regular as you put it,you will need the normal bank and other requirements ,as in any other extension.

Yeah but they will ask "How did you get a visa last year but your bank book doesn't show 400k in it last year?"

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, AndyPa said:

Yeah but they will ask "How did you get a visa last year but your bank book doesn't show 400k in it last year?"

Open a new bank-account and use that new one for later applications when your old bank-book could give you away and you want to cover your tracks.

[Orton Rd]

8 minutes ago, AndyPa said:

Yeah but they will ask "How did you get a visa last year but your bank book doesn't show 400k in it last year?"

Once you start paying for discretion you are stuck doing it

[Tanoshi]

14 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Do you have any links etc to cases where a retiree has been deported and the IO sacked ????

This type of corruption will never appear in the press, it's all handled in house.

It's simply a case of being in the right place at the right time.

 

A few years ago at Roi Et, posted on TVF at the time, there was a massive investigation.

All but one of the 8 members of staff were dismissed, not sent to inactive posts.

A group of young (I assume trainees) mulled through mountains of extension application for days.

They identified 6 involved foreigners, arrested 4, sent to IDC then deported.

For days thereafter Immigration officers visited local bars and foreigner hangouts with photos and names of the other 2 in an effort to locate them as apparently their addresses were false.

[SkyFax]

14 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

It is legitimate  - fact. You can't have shades of legitimacy. 

 

An IO has the ultimate authority to decide whether to place his stamp in your passport. If he chooses to do so it is LEGAL........ irrespective of what happened to to get to that point.

Yes and (per this translation of) the Thai Immigration Act at page 38:

 

Rate of fees, working fees, and other expenses
Fees

 

(3) Application for extension of temporary stay in the Kingdom
under Section 35, per person, each time    --    2,000 baht 

 

... and all the IO discretionary extension waivers as discussed this topic are under Section 35 of the IMM Act.

 

https://web.krisdika.go.th/data/outsitedata/outsite21/file/Immigration_Act_B.E._2522.pdf

[Orton Rd]

If paying for a discretionary decision to ignore money in the bank was really legal why the need to use an agent at all? why not just ask for the price direct at the immigration office? Hi no money at all in the bank what is your charge for ignoring that in this office? I know it's legal as I read it was on TV forum ????

Edited June 20, 2020 by Orton Rd

[Olmate]

10 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Open a new bank-account and use that new one for later applications when your old bank-book could give you away and you want to cover your tracks.

Yes, most agents use one particular bank and new clients will open a specific account for extensions only,I believe.

[Olmate]

13 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

This type of corruption will never appear in the press, it's all handled in house.

It's simply a case of being in the right place at the right time.

 

A few years ago at Roi Et, posted on TVF at the time, there was a massive investigation.

All but one of the 8 members of staff were dismissed, not sent to inactive posts.

A group of young (I assume trainees) mulled through mountains of extension application for days.

They identified 6 involved foreigners, arrested 4, sent to IDC then deported.

For days thereafter Immigration officers visited local bars and foreigner hangouts with photos and names of the other 2 in an effort to locate them as apparently their addresses were false.

Hardly a massive investigation surely?

[WhatsNext]

20 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

For those who wish to transfer money to TL now (800K) the exchange rate sucks and you will lose big time. That said 15 K for agent is looking good.

Lose how ? You need money for monthly expenses don't you, no way around the exchange rate. You can go down to 400k in the bank without any problem. 

[Peter Denis]

3 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Hardly a massive investigation surely?

The issue was whether engaging a fixer-agent to circumvent the requirements you can not meet is legit or not.  The Roi Et case clearly demonstrates that it is NOT legit and that there can be consequences when doing so.

I do agree that the risk is very small, but arguing that it is legit because it is tolerated is not correct and TVF members should be aware of that.

[ThaidDown]

14 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

It is legitimate  - fact. You can't have shades of legitimacy. 

 

An IO has the ultimate authority to decide whether to place his stamp in your passport. If he chooses to do so it is LEGAL........ irrespective of what happened to to get to that point.

 

 

 

That is correct as far as it goes.

If , however, the IO receives any cash or other inducement to to issue a stamp or other document then that stamp is void and the IO is subject to sanctions including dismissal and/or prosecution.

 

That has nothing to do with any Immigration acts but is part of the conditions of service all government employees sign and agree to when they are hired.

I'm not saying there is much chance of them being caught but if any government official accepts 'inducements' anything they issue is void.

 

[jvs]

A lot of issues being discussed here.What if the agent presents a bankbook which states  that the

applicant has has 800.000 in his account for the last three months?

The agent knows,the applicant knows,the bank certainly knows but does the IO know?

I am sure he does but what if he checks the papers and they appear to be correct?

Would this clear the IO?Only the agent and applicant to blame?

 

[Enzian]

I hate to jump into this, but I wonder if things like the Roi Et case mentioned above usually come about not because of the impropriety of the IO's action, but because he or someone in the office rubbed wrong someone higher up? In other words, it may in practice come up only because of interdepartmental frictions?

[BigStar]

3 hours ago, Enzian said:

I'm grateful for the low numbers of infections here, but... sometimes I wish they WOULD throw me out of this country. I'd go buy a right to stay I've heard about from Portugal, spend my final days wandering around the art museums of Europe, and eff this place.

Sounds like a win-win.

[Peter Denis]

14 minutes ago, Enzian said:

I hate to jump into this, but I wonder if things like the Roi Et case mentioned above usually come about not because of the impropriety of the IO's action, but because he or someone in the office rubbed wrong someone higher up? In other words, it may in practice come up only because of interdepartmental frictions?

I think it is safe to say that such crack-downs as in Roi Et, most probably happened because of internal IO strife.  But that doesn't change the fact that things like these happen, and the downfall of some immigration officers that were 'on the take' (even if that was just an excuse for retaliating on them) had serious consequences for both the fixer-agent and the retirees that had their Visa/extension 'fixed' by those officers.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

If paying for a discretionary decision to ignore money in the bank was really legal why the need to use an agent at all? why not just ask for the price direct at the immigration office? Hi no money at all in the bank what is your charge for ignoring that in this office? I know it's legal as I read it was on TV forum ????

A couple of years ago, I made the effort to understand what was going on here. Agents (and their friendly officials) sometimes use loopholes that make extensions fully legal. Sometimes, saving a bit of money, they ignore the rules hoping never to be caught.

 

First, you need to understand what senior officials (typically head of smaller immigration offices, or heads of department at bigger ones) have discretion to allow, and the logic behind that discretion. Years ago, no funds seasoning was required. Seasoning was introduced to prevent people simply using 24-hour loans to meet the financial requirement for retirement extensions. This could create some unfair situations where the applicant clearly had the money, but was not technically in compliance with the rules. One example was an applicant with several million baht in a joint account with his wife, not realising that only an account in his sole name qualified. In such a situation, the senior official has the discretion to tell the applicant to transfer enough money to an account in his sole name and that he will waive the seasoning requirement. In some cases, this has been applied legitimately (usually at small, friendly offices).

 

It should be obvious what the loophole is. The official who has discretion to waive seasoning requirements can do so in a manner that reintroduces the 24-hour loan dodge. This is not the cheapest solution as you need a compliant bank to go along with what the branch manager can well see is improper. However, I do not think you (the recipient of the retirement extension) have anything to worry about. You have done nothing wrong in being the beneficiary of the official's using his discretion to waive seasoning, and there is no law against accepting a loan. It is totally against the spirit of the regulations, and the official concerned is guilty of abuse of his discretion, but you personally did nothing wrong.

 

To cut the price of the extension to the absolute minimum, many agents (and their officials) will simply falsify bank documents. In that case, the extension is fraudulent, and you (the recipient of the extension) could conceivably be in trouble in the event of an investigation.

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, WhatsNext said:

Lose how ? You need money for monthly expenses don't you, no way around the exchange rate. You can go down to 400k in the bank without any problem. 

The exchange rate right now is below 31.0 maybe  like 30.9 bht/USD for easy math say 30,000 USD needed to be transferred. Not long ago it was 33 Bht/USD. Transfer now vs waiting for rate to adjust I lose 2000 USD.

I have an OA now and to stay on the OA I'll need to get Ins here at some point which I don't really need as I have BC/BS from fed job (retired). If I convert to an O I will need the money transferred and I lose 2000 USD in transfer. Or, or go the agent route pay my 15K bht and all is easy peasy.

 

Yes I transfer money when needed for living. When exchange rate goes back up I'll get a big sum transferred here and go for the "O"

[KaputtAlreadyNa]

Why complicate yourself?  I assume that you are a retiree and I guess as a retiree you should be enjoying yourself and not to worry every morning when you wake up,  is my Visa still OK? 

I would advise you to do the correct way and enjoy your hard earned retirement. 

Just my 2 cent. 

Thanks

Warmest

[baansgr]

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes I have, but received the case PM as part of a similar 'legit or not' discussion.

Have contacted the (very knowledgeable) TVF member that provided me with the info, and will share when he provides me permission (he might have his reasons - which I respect - for not doing so).

How convenient

[Peter Denis]

10 minutes ago, baansgr said:

How convenient

Read message #107 by @Tanoshi

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

If paying for a discretionary decision to ignore money in the bank was really legal why the need to use an agent at all? why not just ask for the price direct at the immigration office? Hi no money at all in the bank what is your charge for ignoring that in this office? I know it's legal as I read it was on TV forum ????

Some have reported exactly this (sans reference to TVF) - offers right in the office to "fix" things.

 

11 hours ago, Olmate said:

Yes, most agents use one particular bank and new clients will open a specific account for extensions only,I believe.

In Pattaya - they offered 3 different bank-options - just needed to be one of the banks they work with.  The money would be in my account for less than a day, and I would have to give them my bank-book at ATM-card. 
I opted not to do it, because 1) Rewarding those who (bleep)ed me, before.  2) The subsequent 90-day reports would have been fake (agent offered to handle those), because I was moving out of the area.

 

9 hours ago, Enzian said:

I hate to jump into this, but I wonder if things like the Roi Et case mentioned above usually come about not because of the impropriety of the IO's action, but because he or someone in the office rubbed wrong someone higher up? In other words, it may in practice come up only because of interdepartmental frictions?

Exactly - likely were not passing the required portion of the loot up the pyramid-scheme. 

 

23 hours ago, cada33 said:

In which cities are these kind of visa agents available: I've read Pattaya, Bangkok and Udon but I don't think these visa agents are available in Chiang Mai or other parts of Thailand?

Chiang Mai was agent-central.  Big Joke had to 'crack down' on them to stop with the "sleep in the parking lot to get a queue number" routine, they were so determined to make more applicants use agents.  For the Non-O 90-day, they required 21 days advance of stay-expiry, then would say the appointments were "full" past that time that one could apply.

 

They were being far to blatant about it - and the abuse was definitely scaled back, but I have heard no reports agent-service was ended.

 

[Orton Rd]

Makes you wonder what the income is for all these 'discretionary' stamps, obviously millions to be divided up per year per office, a nice little earner.

[AndyPa]

39 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The subsequent 90-day reports would have been fake (agent offered to handle those), because I was moving out of the area.

Fake as in fake stamps? Or fake as in fake addresses reported and you being somewhere else?

 

Why could you not just switch to your real address on the next report?