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Seems to be a standard question to ask how much money you get per month especially as the 800k is meant to stay in the bank. Why don't you ask for a marriage extension? Never had a visit from Jomtien for 7 years but then I haven't ever changed my address.

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11 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Sorry you did ask for a marriage extension. So did I on monthly income but they still wanted my wife to tell them how much pm as it is difficult to manage on 400k pa

When you apply for a Non Imm O Visa or a 1-year extension of that Non Imm O Visa (be it for purpose of retirement, or for reason of marriage) and you use another method than the money-in-bank method to prove your financials, IO can require that you also show evidence of the SOURCE of your foreign income.  

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34 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Seems to be a standard question to ask how much money you get per month especially as the 800k is meant to stay in the bank. Why don't you ask for a marriage extension? Never had a visit from Jomtien for 7 years but then I haven't ever changed my address.

My last two extensions from Jomtien both required home visits i have not changed address for nine years, my guess is it might have something to do with how far you live from the IO Sattahip is next door to Jomtien (purely a guess)

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On 6/20/2020 at 3:08 PM, brianthainess said:

Yeh only lived 15 yrs and always used the same I.O. The one interrogating my wife was the one of 4 who came 2 yrs ago 11am stinking of booze and trying to put his arm around me in that awful drunken manner, last year only 2 turned up and when they phoned told my wife he was not drunk today. I like to sail across the wind with maximin heeling to give the speed and adrenalin rush, as opposed to just leaning over on the sofa. 

Maybe you should tell your wife a white lie about your money. She will pass it over to the IO next year and everything will be hunky dory. 

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54 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

Sorry you did ask for a marriage extension. So did I on monthly income but they still wanted my wife to tell them how much pm as it is difficult to manage on 400k pa

At the newish Kalasin IO, which sends the application to Khon Kaen for the approval I was told,  asking for a marriage extension on income I produced necessary bank statement and bank letter showing more than 40k a month, but in the form of several rather than a single transfer a month, was told income amount fine but want evidence of its source ie who/ what in the UK. Cannot I said multiple investment sources. OK so we cannot he replied. Why not put 400k in the bank? Do they really need that info. for income method. Not according to other posts ( Chang Wattana, Jomtien). Is there any appeal process? Don't suppose so! And it's not difficult to manage on 40k a month up here, although I'm not saying it's a luxurious life style! No kids but we feed Mom, Pop and 1 sister, pay their electric and water bills.

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1 hour ago, Kalasin Jo said:

At the newish Kalasin IO, which sends the application to Khon Kaen for the approval I was told,  asking for a marriage extension on income I produced necessary bank statement and bank letter showing more than 40k a month, but in the form of several rather than a single transfer a month, was told income amount fine but want evidence of its source ie who/ what in the UK.

See my post #8 > when using the monthly-income transfer method (or the Embassy issued income statement), your local IO can ask you to prove the SOURCE of your foreign income (and often only accept a pension-statement).  They do not always ask for that additional evidence as it is up to the discretion of the officer handling your application.

Edited by Peter Denis
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8 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Yes, I went back to them today and they still insist on a full paper trail. But it's not a pension, it's all sorts of sources. I wasn't of course expecting Covid and border closures so had no plan to make a request for this extension! Again they said just put 400 k in the bank here no proofs needed but then agreed I couldn't make application for 60 days from when I did that ( I can't anyway) taking it beyond 31 July, even beyond a further amnesty period. Finally told me you should do border run to Savanakhet again when borders open and start again, or go back to Europe. Rather depressed honestly. I do need to go back to Europe ( France) but I'd rather do it with a visa that allows me to come back and some idea of when a return is possible. Id rather not do it now and my wife was coming with me but her visa will expire soon now and she is convinced it's too infection dangerous to fly and in France, as to an extent am I. What a mess!

Sorry to hear that at your IO the officer handling your application insists on SOURCE of income proven, but according to the IO-regulations it is indeed at their discretion to ask for that additional evidence. 

Did you already use the 60-day extension (which can be done once per entry)?

If not, you could 'buy time' by applying for that 60-day extension at the end of the Amnesty, which will provide you two extra months and during that period the border-situation may have somewhat normalized to allow you doing a border-run (or apply for a new Visa in a neighboring country).

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On 6/21/2020 at 5:27 PM, brianthainess said:

Not really it depends on your life style, i have no rent to pay, don't go to bars/or very rarely (when they were open) we eat and drink at home, or go to friends or they come to us, my wife works, gathers *free* food from our land, we have fruit trees, I make western food, I could easily live on less. My utilities cost me 2000 a month the rest is for booze, food and a tank of fuel once a month. My point was after giving immigration what they ask for, they still want to pry into my private life and then come tramping through my house with their shoes on, make us pose on the bed and take the same photos all over our house which they have already been given, the same officers every year. I find it an intrusion but i DO keep calm even though i am treated like a criminal when i know that really it is them, rant over. Off to buy my 2 beers for tonight and settle down to a good film.????

If, like me, you don't want all that hassle, just do things through an agency, you will not be breaking any laws.

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On 6/21/2020 at 3:41 PM, Peter Denis said:

When you apply for a Non Imm O Visa or a 1-year extension of that Non Imm O Visa (be it for purpose of retirement, or for reason of marriage) and you use another method than the money-in-bank method to prove your financials, IO can require that you also show evidence of the SOURCE of your foreign income.  

Yes. I have been asked for evidence of the source by IO Kalasin. Turning in to a bit of a nightmare. Working on it. They said just put 400k in the bank. Easy! Doesn't it have to be seasoned before I make the application? Oh, yes. So if I put it in right now ( I can't) I cannot make application until 22 August. Oh, yes you are right. So if the amnesty ends 31 July I'll be on overstay until you accept an application and being on overstay ou won't accept that application. Hmmm. We think you best go to Savanakhet get new visa when borders open.

 

I'm having one last shot at this with income method.  I actually want to leave Thailand , should have done 1 May, with my ( Thai of course)  wife. But I want to have a visa or permission to stay + re entry permit to return on. Who knows what the rules will be in 3 months time, but that might help rather than coming in visa exempt  ( if continued).

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46 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Yes. I have been asked for evidence of the source by IO Kalasin. Turning in to a bit of a nightmare. Working on it. They said just put 400k in the bank. Easy! Doesn't it have to be seasoned before I make the application? Oh, yes. So if I put it in right now ( I can't) I cannot make application until 22 August. Oh, yes you are right. So if the amnesty ends 31 July I'll be on overstay until you accept an application and being on overstay ou won't accept that application. Hmmm. We think you best go to Savanakhet get new visa when borders open.

 

I'm having one last shot at this with income method.  I actually want to leave Thailand , should have done 1 May, with my ( Thai of course)  wife. But I want to have a visa or permission to stay + re entry permit to return on. Who knows what the rules will be in 3 months time, but that might help rather than coming in visa exempt  ( if continued).

Might not be very reliable, but there is a reasonable chance the amnesty could be extended, at least for a further month. If it is, you should be fine to make your extension. Otherwise, can't you enlist the help of an agent (although it's a bit pricey, but may be more suitable for you than attempting to return home at short notice).

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When I was first stationed here in the U.S. Army I was surprised at the way everyone asked me how much money I make. It's partly because we don't fit the usual ways Thais judge each other's relative status. The elder/younger, patron/client, boss/worker, parent/child relation is of first importance in Thai culture. Since farang are unlikely to have any of the achievements Thais use in their judging, like knowledge of village traditions, attendance at the right schools, family status, etc., they usually grant us fairly high social status until/unless we show we don't deserve it. If you've been here 15 years and haven't gotten used to people asking how much you make I have to figure you don't meet many people, or else you enjoy offending them. 

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On 6/23/2020 at 9:16 PM, Acharn said:

When I was first stationed here in the U.S. Army I was surprised at the way everyone asked me how much money I make. It's partly because we don't fit the usual ways Thais judge each other's relative status. The elder/younger, patron/client, boss/worker, parent/child relation is of first importance in Thai culture. Since farang are unlikely to have any of the achievements Thais use in their judging, like knowledge of village traditions, attendance at the right schools, family status, etc., they usually grant us fairly high social status until/unless we show we don't deserve it. If you've been here 15 years and haven't gotten used to people asking how much you make I have to figure you don't meet many people, or else you enjoy offending them. 

Here we go again another poster offending and making  assumptions  (yanks judging) about me I first started coming here in the early 80s and never recall ANYONE asking me, maybe you SEEK high status but i do not, i consider to be well respected by the locals, invited to weddings, funerals, birthday parties, school and temple do's, by rich and poor alike, no one asks me how much i earn, my respect is earnt by my deeds and actions. ????you can enjoy offending me but i really don't give a <deleted> 

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On 6/23/2020 at 7:46 AM, Peter Denis said:

Sorry to hear that at your IO the officer handling your application insists on SOURCE of income proven, but according to the IO-regulations it is indeed at their discretion to ask for that additional evidence. 

Did you already use the 60-day extension (which can be done once per entry)?

If not, you could 'buy time' by applying for that 60-day extension at the end of the Amnesty, which will provide you two extra months and during that period the border-situation may have somewhat normalized to allow you doing a border-run (or apply for a new Visa in a neighboring country).

Thanks, but no thanks as it were for that! I did the 60 day extension just before the amnesty, expired 9 June, with no problems. With the state of emergency "set" to be extended to end August and easing of restrictions all internal as far as I can see, it would make sense to extend the amnesty by a further 2 months....but will they?

 

I'm still trying to get the necessary proof and audit trail but still face a problem because now they say they want a 12 month bank statement showing 40k a month coming in, previously I'm sure they said for 2 months but now say no that was about seasoning 400k on money in the bank ( which I hadn't actually asked about!).

 

They'd very much like me to put 400k in the bank as it is so much easier for them but I pointed out that the 60 days of seasoning would take me at least close to the end of August now before I could apply and out of amnesty, out of time for such an application! And on overstay of at least 28 days. Ah yes, best go to Savanakhet or go back your other home!

 

But I'm stubborn and inclined to flog dead horses so I'm still trying to meet their income based requirements at the moment....and hoping for an amnesty extension if I can't.

 

As I say they are now asking for a bank statement plus proof of UK source for 12 months at 40 k a month. I'm sure someone posted it was 2 months for a first application. It doesn't make sense to be sending that much money up here if you are not in country just so the wife can party with all her " friends " etc in your absence! Anyway sometimes she is with me in Europe. 

 

Are  they right?  If so does it have to be a minimum of 40k a month or an average over the 12?  I can't show a minimum every month. Only an average over 12 months of well over 40k mostly due to the last 6 when of course I've been here! I was not here for 5 of the previous 6.

 

Do you have the regulation on this in Thai and English perchance? So I can produce it to them if it favours me that is! If it doesn't I'll give up on this horse and accept my fate. 

 

There is still a but, even if 2 months is right. This is indeed a first extension application stemming from THIS visa. However in 2012 I got a non O  retirement and kept extending, changing to marriage in 2015, until I let the last one, obtained January 2018, expire and hopped over to Savanakhet in January 2019 instead. So it's by no means MY first 1 year extension...and it's all in my passport and has been noted!

 

Any further advice or comment Peter? You seem to know your onions!

 

With thanks.

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On 6/23/2020 at 4:47 PM, possum1931 said:

If, like me, you don't want all that hassle, just do things through an agency, you will not be breaking any laws.

If he does it on retirement, not too bad.  The extra 10K on-top of the usual agent-fee, for the district sign-off for marriage-based, is highway-robbery.

 

3 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

...

As I say they are now asking for a bank statement plus proof of UK source for 12 months at 40 k a month. I'm sure someone posted it was 2 months for a first application.

Those are the "official rules," but the IO doesn't care, because no one forces them to follow said-rules.  If you can show the money coming in, that is all that should matter - you have multiple-times a Thai's average earnings to support your wife - is all they should care about, if they were honest - but they aren't. 

 

Quote

...

Are  they right?  If so does it have to be a minimum of 40k a month or an average over the 12?  I can't show a minimum every month. Only an average over 12 months of well over 40k mostly due to the last 6 when of course I've been here! I was not here for 5 of the previous 6.

The word "average" is in there, but see above on why it doesn't matter.  The only "rule" you need to know, is the guy (and his boss, and his bosses-boss) wants a fat envelope as part of the deal, and will bend/twist the "rules" in whatever way makes that most likely.  I would not suggest trying to negotiate directly - puts you in a criminal situation - is what the agent is for.

 

Quote

Do you have the regulation on this in Thai and English perchance? So I can produce it to them if it favours me that is! If it doesn't I'll give up on this horse and accept my fate. 

 

There is still a but, even if 2 months is right. This is indeed a first extension application stemming from THIS visa. However in 2012 I got a non O  retirement and kept extending, changing to marriage in 2015, until I let the last one, obtained January 2018, expire and hopped over to Savanakhet in January 2019 instead. So it's by no means MY first 1 year extension...and it's all in my passport and has been noted!

If willing to go back to "retirement" based, can pick one up in Jomtien for 15K Baht or less.  Possibly a "lawyer" or some-such in your area that is partners with that IO (the likely cause of the "problem") could be around the same cost - would have to check around.  Many Issan residents use Jomtien - probably for a reason (cost).

Edited by JackThompson
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On 6/25/2020 at 12:26 PM, brianthainess said:

Here we go again another poster offending and making  assumptions  (yanks judging) about me I first started coming here in the early 80s and never recall ANYONE asking me, maybe you SEEK high status but i do not, i consider to be well respected by the locals, invited to weddings, funerals, birthday parties, school and temple do's, by rich and poor alike, no one asks me how much i earn, my respect is earnt by my deeds and actions. ????you can enjoy offending me but i really don't give a <deleted> 

I'm really surprised you found my letter offensive. I wasn't saying anything about you, I was trying to explain a part of Thai culture. Perhaps I should have been more careful about mentioning status. I have usually been associated with rather poor people, and Isaan people, at that. Their status in Thai society is not high, but they have to assign a relative status to me to know how to react with me. What pronoun to use, for example. In old Thailand (I'm talking after World War II here, and early 1970s), at least in the villages, status did not depend on wealth or education so much as knowledge of local rituals (when was the proper time to present an offering to the Goddess of the Fields), knowledge of Buddhist scriptures, esteem of fellow villagers, etc. Status dictated how high you raise your hands when you wai, for example. It can determine which pronoun (in Thai) people use to address you, although I don't think that's likely to arise at our level (if you're the CEO of a company that employs a lot of people I think it would). I think you are assigning a different meaning to the word "status" than i inended. I'm surprised you have never been asked how much you make. Perhaps younger people have learned that foreigners are uncomfortable answering. So I apologize if I offended you. That was not my intention.

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1 hour ago, Acharn said:

I'm really surprised you found my letter offensive. I wasn't saying anything about you, I was trying to explain a part of Thai culture. Perhaps I should have been more careful about mentioning status. I have usually been associated with rather poor people, and Isaan people, at that. Their status in Thai society is not high, but they have to assign a relative status to me to know how to react with me. What pronoun to use, for example. In old Thailand (I'm talking after World War II here, and early 1970s), at least in the villages, status did not depend on wealth or education so much as knowledge of local rituals (when was the proper time to present an offering to the Goddess of the Fields), knowledge of Buddhist scriptures, esteem of fellow villagers, etc. Status dictated how high you raise your hands when you wai, for example. It can determine which pronoun (in Thai) people use to address you, although I don't think that's likely to arise at our level (if you're the CEO of a company that employs a lot of people I think it would). I think you are assigning a different meaning to the word "status" than i inended. I'm surprised you have never been asked how much you make. Perhaps younger people have learned that foreigners are uncomfortable answering. So I apologize if I offended you. That was not my intention.

I used to be asked how much I earn, but people have stopped asking in the last few years. Actually, I think wealth has become less important recently (unless you are seriously wealthy) than a decade ago. Your behaviour matters more. In view of my age, and the way I dress, people I do not know well tend to use ajarn rather than a second person pronoun when talking to me. My observation, in fact, is that both the very polite pronouns and the coarse ones have become much less prevalent. The Thai language and society have changed a lot.

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18 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

Thanks, but no thanks as it were for that! I did the 60 day extension just before the amnesty, expired 9 June, with no problems. With the state of emergency "set" to be extended to end August and easing of restrictions all internal as far as I can see, it would make sense to extend the amnesty by a further 2 months....but will they?

 

I'm still trying to get the necessary proof and audit trail but still face a problem because now they say they want a 12 month bank statement showing 40k a month coming in, previously I'm sure they said for 2 months but now say no that was about seasoning 400k on money in the bank ( which I hadn't actually asked about!).

 

They'd very much like me to put 400k in the bank as it is so much easier for them but I pointed out that the 60 days of seasoning would take me at least close to the end of August now before I could apply and out of amnesty, out of time for such an application! And on overstay of at least 28 days. Ah yes, best go to Savanakhet or go back your other home!

 

But I'm stubborn and inclined to flog dead horses so I'm still trying to meet their income based requirements at the moment....and hoping for an amnesty extension if I can't.

 

As I say they are now asking for a bank statement plus proof of UK source for 12 months at 40 k a month. I'm sure someone posted it was 2 months for a first application. It doesn't make sense to be sending that much money up here if you are not in country just so the wife can party with all her " friends " etc in your absence! Anyway sometimes she is with me in Europe. 

 

Are  they right?  If so does it have to be a minimum of 40k a month or an average over the 12?  I can't show a minimum every month. Only an average over 12 months of well over 40k mostly due to the last 6 when of course I've been here! I was not here for 5 of the previous 6.

 

Do you have the regulation on this in Thai and English perchance? So I can produce it to them if it favours me that is! If it doesn't I'll give up on this horse and accept my fate. 

 

There is still a but, even if 2 months is right. This is indeed a first extension application stemming from THIS visa. However in 2012 I got a non O  retirement and kept extending, changing to marriage in 2015, until I let the last one, obtained January 2018, expire and hopped over to Savanakhet in January 2019 instead. So it's by no means MY first 1 year extension...and it's all in my passport and has been noted!

...

 

Hi Kalasin Jo,

 

It doesn't matter that you have been before on a 90-day Non Imm O marriage Visa and subsequent 1-year extensions.

When you did let the permission to stay of such previous Non Imm O marriage Visa and extension expire, by exiting Thailand and apply for the 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O marriage Visa in Savannakhet you are here on a NEW Visa.

You already used the 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your wife, but of course you can apply for a 1-year extension of stay from that new Savannakhet obtained Non Imm O marriage Visa.

 

Since it is a NEW Visa from which you apply (and not an already running 1-year extension of stay), you are NOT required to show 12 months of +40K income-transfers when using the monthly-income transfer method to prove your financials.

There are 4 methods which you can use when applying for that new 1-year extension:

a) the money-in-bank method > Showing evidence that you kept 400K for at least 2 months on your thai bank-account at the moment of application for the 1-year extension (some offices incorrectly require 3 months seasoning);

b) the monthly-income transfer method > Showing evidence that you transfered at least 2 (some offices require 3) monthly transfers of +40K at the moment of application;

c) using an Embassy issued income statement, stating that your foreign monthly income is +40K.

d) the combination method, using a mix of a/b (some offices do not accept this method).

 

In your case you have insufficient time left before end of July to meet the 2 month seasoning requirement, so if you didn't have +400K in your personal bank-account end of May and kept it there, method a and d are not possible anymore.

But you would still be able to transfer +40K this month (it should have arrived on your personal bank-account in month of June), and then do an additional one in July, thus meeting the minimum of 2 monthly transfers.

As a citizen of France, you can also use the Embassy issued income statement.  You simply need to fill in an Affidavit-form in which you declare on word of honor your annual and monthly foreign income.  No evidence required, as the Embassy stamp/signature only confirms that it was you who signed the Affidavit-form.

However, the problem you might face when using method b) or c) that the Immigration officer handling your application has the discretionary right to ask for evidence of the SOURCE of your foreign income.  That will probably be no issue for you, but some IOs ONLY accept a pension-statement as proof of foreign income.

 

I think that in your case, the officer handling your case is just doing difficult (because normally they do not request to provide evidence of the SOURCE of your foreign income).  IOs prefer that you use method a) or d), because that means less paperwork for them (and yourself) and does not need divisional approval of your application, which is required when using the monthly-income transfer method (and means the local officer's handling of your application is being checked).

The officer handling your case also seems a bit confused, because in your case there is no need for 12 months of income-transfers when using the monthly-income transfer method.  So might be useful to politely request talking to a senior officer at your Kallasin IO to plead your case.

 

Edited by Peter Denis
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7 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

...

I think that in your case, the officer handling your case is just doing difficult (because normally they do not request to provide evidence of the SOURCE of your foreign income).  IOs prefer that you use method a) or d), because that means less paperwork for them (and yourself) and does not need divisional approval of your application, which is required when using the monthly-income transfer method (and means the local officer's handling of your application is being checked).

...

CORRECTION > Divisional approval is always required when applying for a 1-year extension for reason of MARRIAGE, irrespective of the method used to provide evidence that the financial requirements are met. 

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Id go with retirement visa,cheapest one Ive seen through agent 9 and a half thousand.       Banks here I feel are in for a ton  of trouble...lending on a multiple of 8?  that's big trouble coming Thailands way

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8 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Wow, even if you make it super-simple for IO to approve your financials by keeping the required amount frozen on a personal bank-account, IO succeeds in finding 'problems'.

To be fair, in 15+ years not much real trouble with immigration. Every now and then there's some new bit of nonsense, mostly it's nothing serious or just mildly annoying. Not that we didn't have our fair share of BS and run around, but to be expected and not all that different elsewhere.

 

Last time time I remember immigration personnel making overboard demands or being rude was about 15 years ago (or more). But that was in Bangkok, and before they moved their offices to new premises.

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