90-Day Entry Ban for Overstay during Amnesty?

[audaciousnomad]

So, it is well established that the overstay rule are:

• Overstay less than 90 Days = 500 Thai baht/day overstay fine (maximum 20,000 Thai baht)
• Overstay more than 90 Days = 1 year ban from Thailand and 20,000 Thai baht overstay fine
• Overstay more than 1 Year = 3 years ban from Thailand and 20,000 Thai baht overstay fine
• Overstay more than 3 Years = 5 years ban from Thailand and 20,000 baht overstay fine
• Overstay more than 5 Years = 10 years ban from Thailand and 20,000 baht overstay fine

 

The question is, when does the "day counter" start?
(A) From the last "permitted to stay until" date stamped in the passport?
(B) From the last day of the amnesty, whenever that is decided (presently 31-July)?

The reason for my question is not trivial. If the day counter starts from (A), then for those whose stamp was more than 90 days prior to 31-July and have not departed, they would technically be banned from returning for a year, even if overstay fees are only calculated from 1-Aug, right?

[Peter Denis]

Counter starts from (B) as everyone's permission to stay till after 26th of March has been automatically extended till 31 July (if the Amnesty is not extended).  So no worries about overstay or re-entry bans.

[Caldera]

Are you for real? Do you already plan to overstay the amnesty that won't even end for another 40 days?

 

My point being, you have plenty of time to avoid overstaying. Then you won't need to worry from what day they will start counting!

 

[glegolo]

You cant overstay unless you are on an extension of stay I guess.....

 

glegolo

[Peter Denis]

14 minutes ago, glegolo said:

You cant overstay unless you are on an extension of stay I guess.....

 

glegolo

Also the permission to stay from an extension of stay has been automatically extended till 31 July (or later, in case the Amnesty would be extended).

[audaciousnomad]

31 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Counter starts from (B) as everyone's permission to stay till after 26th of March has been automatically extended till 31 July (if the Amnesty is not extended).  So no worries about overstay or re-entry bans.

Thanks. The reason I posed this question is because there are some on the forum who are applying for new visas (example Non-Immig. ED), and if their original stamp already expired, they are having to pay a "special" fee for handling that overstay. (E.g. the amnesty did not protect them from penalties if they decided to apply for a new visa-type.) So I wondered how they will handle anyone who couldn't get out by 31-July.

Edited June 21, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[Blue Muton]

20 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Also the permission to stay from an extension of stay has been automatically extended till 31 July (or later, in case the Amnesty would be extended).

Not according to my office, I was told I had to apply for a new extension just last month, got the 1 year stamp earlier this month.

[Peter Denis]

20 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Not according to my office, I was told I had to apply for a new extension just last month, got the 1 year stamp earlier this month.

Also at your office the permission to stay from your extension of stay has been automatically extended till 31 July (or later, in case the Amnesty would be extended).  Because that automatic extension is applicable for ALL permissions to stay nation-wide.

But the reason your office advised you to apply for the 1-year extension of your Non Imm O or O-A Visa when it was due, is that some offices (like your IO) will not accept your application for the 1-year extension of stay when the permission to stay date has expired.  You would not have any overstay fines or re-entry bans if you did let it expire, but in that case you would be forced to leave Thailand and start your application from scratch again.  In order to avoid that inconveniency, it has been strongly recommended in many posts on the Forum to apply for the 1-year extension when the permission to stay date was due to expire. 

Note: There are also offices that will process your application for the 1-year extension during the Amnesty period even if the permission to stay date expired already.  But better not take any chances and do it before expiry-date.

 

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Also the permission to stay from an extension of stay has been automatically extended till 31 July (or later, in case the Amnesty would be extended).

no it has NOT, Not according to UbonJoe at least,..

 

glegolo

[drbeach]

5 minutes ago, glegolo said:

no it has NOT, Not according to UbonJoe at least,..

 

glegolo

Correct. Only from a visa or visa-exempt stay. Extensions of stay should be renewed as normal.

[Dumbastheycome]

Sadly things are  often open to variables in interpretation in Thailand.

Anyone who is currently in Thailand on a VISA entry is covered  by the amnesty if the expiry date of said  VISA is post 25th March.

Those on a current valid annual Extension of Stay may or may not be considered  by the relevant provincial  Immigration Office to also be covered. Therefore the advisory is that people who are on Extensions which are  not  Visas should  renew as usual.

Is  not so  difficult  to comprehend and  probably  not so difficult to achieve  given IO.s have sfa else to process at this time.

Those on 12 month Multi O such as myself have  greater need  to  navigate the  unknown as  31July begins to loom !

[Caldera]

2 hours ago, audaciousnomad said:

Thanks. The reason I posed this question is because there are some on the forum who are applying for new visas (example Non-Immig. ED), and if their original stamp already expired, they are having to pay a "special" fee for handling that overstay. (E.g. the amnesty did not protect them from penalties if they decided to apply for a new visa-type.) So I wondered how they will handle anyone who couldn't get out by 31-July.

I think you misunderstand that. They don't need to pay a fine for being on overstay. They are being coerced to pay a backhander for processing an in-country non-immigrant visa application (conversion of an EXPIRED visa exempt or tourist visa entry).

 

[Peter Denis]

11 hours ago, drbeach said:

Correct. Only from a visa or visa-exempt stay. Extensions of stay should be renewed as normal.

If you don't apply for your 1-year extension of stay before due date, your IO might not handle your application anymore, and that would force you to leave the country and apply for a new Visa from scratch again.  Hence the strong recommendation to do it before the permission to stay of your current 1-year permission to stay expires.

But if you did not do it and your permission to stay expired during the Amnesty (and your IO refuses to handle your application because of that), you will not be fined overstay nor face re-entry bans. 

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, glegolo said:

no it has NOT, Not according to UbonJoe at least,..

 

glegolo

@ubonjoe > Hi UJ, can you please confirm whether this is correct or not.  Thanks.

 

13 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Also the permission to stay from an extension of stay has been automatically extended till 31 July (or later, in case the Amnesty would be extended).

 

[LukKrueng]

14 hours ago, audaciousnomad said:

The question is, when does the "day counter" start?
(A) From the last "permitted to stay until" date stamped in the passport?
(B) From the last day of the amnesty, whenever that is decided (presently 31-July)?

If the permitted to stay date was any date before 26 March counter started from A.

If it was 26 March or after - B

[ubonjoe]

12 hours ago, glegolo said:

no it has NOT, Not according to UbonJoe at least,..

I have nevers saif a person would be on a overstay if they did not apply for their annual extension of stay.

But there is good chance that immigration will not accept the application if you did not apply for it since the may consider the "automatic extension" as not being an extension of the existing extension.

[glegolo]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I have nevers saif a person would be on a overstay if they did not apply for their annual extension of stay.

But there is good chance that immigration will not accept the application if you did not apply for it since the may consider the "automatic extension" as not being an extension of the existing extension.

Dribbling with words Joe, you hve clearly stated that 1 year extensions is NOT part of the amnesti.

 

glegolo

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, glegolo said:

Dribbling with words Joe, you hve clearly stated that 1 year extensions is NOT part of the amnesti.

 

glegolo

Sorry glegolo, but UJ is correct. 

Due to the confusing usage of the word Visa instead of permission to stay in the earlier communications by IO, I was initially also thinking that 1-year extensions of stay were not covered by the Amnesty.  But luckily Joe corrected me.

ALL permissions to stay expiring after 26 March have been automatically prolonged till July 31 (or a later date if the amnesty is extended), with no overstay-fines or re-entry bans.

But as mentioned many times already, the tricky part is that your local IO MIGHT not accept your application for a 1-year extension when your permission to stay date has expired, and that would then force you to leave the country and start the application from scratch again.  Therefore it is strongly recommended to do your 1-year extension of stay application before the due date.  Again, there will be no overstay fines or re-entry bans if you didn't do it before the due date, but the consequence might be that you have to leave the country to re-apply for a new Visa.

[essox essox]

here we go again......IT STARTS FROM WHEN ONE ARRIVES BACK INTO THE COUNTRY.....for 90 day sign in one can go sign in 14 days prior to sign in date and one week after sign in date.....very simple. OR one does it online or by post/email (not too sure about e mail tho')

[Peter Denis]

8 minutes ago, essox essox said:

here we go again......IT STARTS FROM WHEN ONE ARRIVES BACK INTO THE COUNTRY.....for 90 day sign in one can go sign in 14 days prior to sign in date and one week after sign in date.....very simple. OR one does it online or by post/email (not too sure about e mail tho')

This thread is NOT about 90-day reporting.

It is about being on over-stay after your permission to stay expired, and whether that is applied during the Amnesty (it is not).

Edited June 22, 2020 by Peter Denis

[essox essox]

2 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

This thread is NOT about 90-day reporting.

It is about being on over-stay after your permission to stay expired, and whether that is applied during the Amnesty (it is not).

thort it was about 90 day reporting.......!!!

[Max69xl]

17 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Also the permission to stay from an extension of stay has been automatically extended till 31 July (or later, in case the Amnesty would be extended).

The amnesty doesn't cover 1 year extensions. They have to be done as usual. 

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, glegolo said:

Dribbling with words Joe, you hve clearly stated that 1 year extensions is NOT part of the amnesti.

 

glegolo

The problem is that you can post that 50 times and some people still don't get it. 

[essox essox]

8 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

This thread is NOT about 90-day reporting.

It is about being on over-stay after your permission to stay expired, and whether that is applied during the Amnesty (it is not).

read the start of the original post.....ANY WAY I COULD NOT GIVE A **it about anyone else....all I know is that i DO NOT have to go sign in again until 14 days before 8th September....THIS IS ALL I NEED TO KNOW.......!!!

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The amnesty doesn't cover 1 year extensions. They have to be done as usual. 

Incorrect > ALL permissions to stay are automatically extended till end of the Amnesty.

Please read full thread.

[RocketDog]

17 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Also at your office the permission to stay from your extension of stay has been automatically extended till 31 July (or later, in case the Amnesty would be extended).  Because that automatic extension is applicable for ALL permissions to stay nation-wide.

But the reason your office advised you to apply for the 1-year extension of your Non Imm O or O-A Visa when it was due, is that some offices (like your IO) will not accept your application for the 1-year extension of stay when the permission to stay date has expired.  You would not have any overstay fines or re-entry bans if you did let it expire, but in that case you would be forced to leave Thailand and start your application from scratch again.  In order to avoid that inconveniency, it has been strongly recommended in many posts on the Forum to apply for the 1-year extension when the permission to stay date was due to expire. 

Note: There are also offices that will process your application for the 1-year extension during the Amnesty period even if the permission to stay date expired already.  But better not take any chances and do it before expiry-date.

 

Thanks for the clarity. That's what the Huahin office told me too. 

Apparently the ability to renew after the extension actually expires is at the individual office/officer discretion. 

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

the tricky part is that your local IO MIGHT not accept your application for a 1-year extension when your permission to stay date has expired,

Actually, if Yanks, Brits, and Ozzies were still allowed to use income affidavits from their embassies for extensions, they would NOT be able to renew their extensions while their embassies/consulates are closed. I really doubt this large number of folks would be told to leave the country and reapply.

But, we're not talking about English speaking embassies -- but about those embassies that still issue income affidavits, but are closed due to corvid 19. You would hope that Immigration would leniently consider their situations re no access to income statements.

[drbeach]

5 hours ago, JimGant said:

Actually, if Yanks, Brits, and Ozzies were still allowed to use income affidavits from their embassies for extensions, they would NOT be able to renew their extensions while their embassies/consulates are closed. I really doubt this large number of folks would be told to leave the country and reapply.

But, we're not talking about English speaking embassies -- but about those embassies that still issue income affidavits, but are closed due to corvid 19. You would hope that Immigration would leniently consider their situations re no access to income statements.

Can the income statements from the embassy be used in lieu of providing a bank statement to immigration? That is to say that you show proof of income to your embassy (who I'm sure are more flexible and less likely to make a big fuss about the details) who then issue a letter confirming that you've met the Thai government's requirements? Or how does it work exactly?

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Can the income statements from the embassy be used in lieu of providing a bank statement to immigration?

They will accept proof of income from your embassy if they will issue one. At the most they may ask for backup proof of the the amount shown on them.

That is the way it was done until 2018 when 3 embassies stopped doing them.

[drbeach]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They will accept proof of income from your embassy if they will issue one. At the most they may ask for backup proof of the the amount shown on them.

That is the way it was done until 2018 when 3 embassies stopped doing them.

OK. I am a dual citizen and luckily the passport I am in Thailand on, is not one of the 3 embassies you mentioned (one of the others, is). I believe the country who's passport I am using is issuing these letters and have resumed normal embassy services since June 15, according to an email I received from them. I guess I would need to transfer some more funds before the end of this month and then sometime next month, and go to the embassy for this letter (or request it via email if they allow it) prior to going in for the extension.

Although, just to confirm once and for all...I could go for the 60-day extension without financials first (in late July) no matter that my original stamp in date expired June 4 and this 60 day extension would take me from say July 29 or 30 (the date I intend to apply for it, assuming the amnesty isn't extended) to late September (Sep 27 ish), prior to which I would need to ensure I have the financial documents ready to apply for the 1-year extension? If so, that means I would be able to show several months of income statements totalling at least 40,000 a month to my embassy, and could wait until mid-September to do that.

Edited June 22, 2020 by drbeach