Planets around nearby star are intriguing candidates for extraterrestrial life

[MaxYakov]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

19 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

AFAIC, the Universe is "timeless".

Based on what? It began at a time the stars formed and they will eventually run out of fuel, which will be the end of all life in the universe.

Thanks. I guess I could have stated it better as "the Universe doesn't care about time" - it's not an essential element - it's usually a human measurement of motion of some sort. Name a human time measurement device that does not rely on motion or a chemical process or the vibration of Cesium atoms (an example of motion-based time measurement).

 

I think said it before: the Universe is based on matter, space and motion. I got into this hypothesis after realizing that our time measurement devices from observing the duration of the Earth's orbit to the atomic (Cesium) clock and others were all based on the measurement of a motion of some sort. And the fact (as near as I can tell) that the motion of mass is NOT instantaneous and always takes (as we measure it) time. One (humorous) definitions of "time" is: that thing that prevents the Universe from happening instantaneously". I would that this is due to the apparent empirical observation that motion is not instantaneous. Even the motion of light is not instantaneous and (apparently) has an upper limit. I don't care that much about whether or not photons experience time as another commenter has mentioned mentioned.

 

There are several empirical observations of our perception of time that (AFAIC) whose explanation by the physicists do not satisfy me such as the apparent affect of gravity/velocity on GPS satellite clocks and the higher velocity/and altitude of the Cesium clock experiment (Hafele-Keating experiment) that could be explained by the affect of motion and/or gravity on the mass of the devices that we use to measure time. There is also the acceleration of time that we humans experience as we age (which I am experiencing a lot of these days????).

 

Anyway, It's an interesting subject of discussion and far beyond this thread I'm afraid, but I'm open to different views.

[Samui Bodoh]

16 hours ago, Susco said:

I actually still look for the answer. other than god created Adam and Eve, how life actually started on earth.

My belief is that humans are an advanced form of animals, probably monkeys, but how did the first animal arise.

Plants can arise spontaneously when oxygen and some other elements are present, but I don't think that counts for animals, and I also don't believe that animals are an advanced form of vegetation.

Anyone has a credible source which would answer my questions?

I think that these are excellent questions for a thread on the possibility of extra-terrestrial life.

 

The answer: Yes, sort of...

 

While I am not an expert, I think the theory of "Panspermia" makes sense and also has some interesting possibilities built into it. The theory of "Panspermia" is...

 

"the theory that life on the earth originated from microorganisms or chemical precursors of life present in outer space and able to initiate life on reaching a suitable environment." (Google)

 

As far as I know, there is no way to prove this theory deterministically at the moment, but it does have some significant advocates; Stephen Hawking endorsed it in 2009 and I really wouldn't want to argue with him.

 

This brings up two thoughts for me.

 

First, if these bits of life or precursors of life came to Earth via meteor/comet/space dust, then how many other planets were also seeded? Yes, space is big (okay, REALLY big!), but if a space object seeded Earth, then I think it is likely that other planets were also seeded and (here's the kicker) I wonder how they evolved? Would we recognize the life there? After 4 billion(?) years, what could that life look like?

 

Secondly, again should life have originated on Earth through the arrival of either life or the precursors of life on a space object, then what gave the proverbial "Spark" that began the life in the first place? My answer is very simple: GOD. Yes, SHE did it.

 

I can hear all the members' fingers warming up to type furiously that 'There Is No God!', that 'Religion Is Bunk!' that 'Churches Are Evil!', etc. etc. etc.

 

STOP!

 

To me, GOD = I don't know

 

https://www.panspermia.org/intro.htm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia

 

https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/in-search-of-panspermia/

 

[mommysboy]

I hope they're Covid free!

 

 

[TKDfella]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I think that these are excellent questions for a thread on the possibility of extra-terrestrial life.

 

The answer: Yes, sort of...

 

While I am not an expert, I think the theory of "Panspermia" makes sense and also has some interesting possibilities built into it. The theory of "Panspermia" is...

 

"the theory that life on the earth originated from microorganisms or chemical precursors of life present in outer space and able to initiate life on reaching a suitable environment." (Google)

 

As far as I know, there is no way to prove this theory deterministically at the moment, but it does have some significant advocates; Stephen Hawking endorsed it in 2009 and I really wouldn't want to argue with him.

 

This brings up two thoughts for me.

 

First, if these bits of life or precursors of life came to Earth via meteor/comet/space dust, then how many other planets were also seeded? Yes, space is big (okay, REALLY big!), but if a space object seeded Earth, then I think it is likely that other planets were also seeded and (here's the kicker) I wonder how they evolved? Would we recognize the life there? After 4 billion(?) years, what could that life look like?

 

Secondly, again should life have originated on Earth through the arrival of either life or the precursors of life on a space object, then what gave the proverbial "Spark" that began the life in the first place? My answer is very simple: GOD. Yes, SHE did it.

 

I can hear all the members' fingers warming up to type furiously that 'There Is No God!', that 'Religion Is Bunk!' that 'Churches Are Evil!', etc. etc. etc.

 

STOP!

 

To me, GOD = I don't know

 

https://www.panspermia.org/intro.htm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panspermia

 

https://astrobiology.nasa.gov/news/in-search-of-panspermia/

 

One of the problems concerning intelligent life, that is equal to our present standard and beyond, is that compared to the Earth's time frame it seems that the evolution of human life has happened quickly. Of course scientists would like to know why so they think there are still links to be found. For example, the primates appear to start diverging around 60 million years ago and the Homo genus appearing (apparently) a little less than 3 million years ago. It seems that from here the evolution appears to speed with the various divisions taking place in terms of hundreds of thousands of years rather than millions. Homo Sapiens have only been around for something like 300,000 years and that short time they have gone from crude rock instruments to laser cutting tools. That is a real leap and not easy to explain.

If other intelligent life exists would it have taken the same short periods or a much slower development say over several million years. Indeed, the environment is probably a key factor. A planet in a 'habitable' zone might have a slightly more elliptical orbit with different Milankovitch cycles, have a different tilt etc etc. all of which could affect development.

All fascinating stuff.????

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Thanks. I guess I could have stated it better as "the Universe doesn't care about time" -

Thanks for your explanation.

[spidermike007]

When you consider the size of the universe and the state of things on earth, one has to presume that not only is there life out there, there it is likely to be millions of intelligent civilizations, spread out over inconceivable reaches of space.

 

My presumption is that we are probably quite low on the evolutionary scale within those millions of civilizations throughout the universe. The universe is just simply too vast to be lifeless and for humans to consider themselves to be the pinnacle of all that exists in the universe to me is a representation of utter hubris, antiquated religious conceits, or just a presumption that is nearly mindless in its scope.

 

And one asks if there is life out there why wouldn't we know about it? When one takes into account both the size of our galaxy alone and the level of ignorance on earth, even if they could contact us, why would they want to? What would they have to gain from a people like ours? 

 

The SETI project makes a bizarre and arrogant presumption. That intelligent life (likely far more advanced than that on earth), would want us to even know of their existence!

[Grumpy one]

Remove the word intelligent and my B I L fits the bill nicely

I'm sure he is life form from a distant planet  

[Odysseus123]

Thai women are communicating with Aliens every day on Thai Friendly...

 

 

[SpaceKadet]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

... snip ...

 

The SETI project makes a bizarre and arrogant presumption. That intelligent life (likely far more advanced than that on earth), would want us to even know of their existence!

I think you make a wrong presumption about SETI. SETI is not looking for a signal directed at us, it is looking for A SIGNAL that would indicate an intelligent civilisation that is using electromagnetic waves as a means of communication. It's simply looking for intelligent life, perhaps at a level equal to us. Our first signals left less that 100 years ago. So, if any intelligent beings would detect it, decipher it, and decide to reply, it would take the same time time to come back to us. Not very efficient use of communication, it's 1.5 seconds delay to the moon, and something like 30+ minutes to Mars.

Late Carl Sagan, in his book Contact (also a movie), describes the fist transmission likely beamed at us, as the first publicly broadcast TV transmission of the opening of the Olympic Games in Berlin 1936, with A. Hitler making a speech.

 

The are also discussions that more advanced cilivilisations would not use electromagnetic waves for communication due to the limitations of the technology, but more likely some more esoteric means, like quantum entanglements, making their transmissions totally invisible to us, at our current technology level.

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by SpaceKadet
Typos!

[Sambotte]

Hundreds billions stars in one galaxy... Hundreds billions galaxies...

Life probably exists. In other forms than carbon-based or other standard we have here, maybe.

 

But not only space is a problem (distance, spaceship able to travel that, and time it would takes without a "breakthrough' discovery (to not being limited by light speed or to shortcut space-time)...) ->

Time could be to consider in another way : let's say a civilization last 1000 years, let's say universe has life since 10 billions years : what are the chances we meet in time ?! Even if a civilization last 1 million years, it's still a possible problem.

[nong38]

I think one of the planets is called Pattaya 2.

[spidermike007]

21 hours ago, SpaceKadet said:

I think you make a wrong presumption about SETI. SETI is not looking for a signal directed at us, it is looking for A SIGNAL that would indicate an intelligent civilisation that is using electromagnetic waves as a means of communication. It's simply looking for intelligent life, perhaps at a level equal to us. Our first signals left less that 100 years ago. So, if any intelligent beings would detect it, decipher it, and decide to reply, it would take the same time time to come back to us. Not very efficient use of communication, it's 1.5 seconds delay to the moon, and something like 30+ minutes to Mars.

Late Carl Sagan, in his book Contact (also a movie), describes the fist transmission likely beamed at us, as the first publicly broadcast TV transmission of the opening of the Olympic Games in Berlin 1936, with A. Hitler making a speech.

 

The are also discussions that more advanced cilivilisations would not use electromagnetic waves for communication due to the limitations of the technology, but more likely some more esoteric means, like quantum entanglements, making their transmissions totally invisible to us, at our current technology level.

 

Absolutely spot on. Great observations. Whatever technology an alien civilization would use, would likely be "light years" beyond what we have. We have not even mastered nuclear fusion, or non invasive surgery yet, which from a speculative philosophy point of view, is very crude, and not advanced at all. Surely they would have far more efficient means of communication, travel, healing, and living more fulfilled lives, not so bogged down by petty conflicts, toxic politics, war, and greed. Even a tiny advancement over our so called civilization would be able to achieve those steps. 

[spidermike007]

Speaking of extraterrestrial planets, when I have a friend visiting Thailand for the first time, I like to explain to them that it is helpful to bear in mind, that Thailand is not really a foreign country. It is more like a distant planet. So, knowing that, do not expect the kinds of things you might expect on earth. Expect the culture and the habits, and the systems to be way beyond foreign, and often incomprehensible.

 

Personally, I find alot of that wonderful. I never know what to expect here. I found life in the US to be terribly predictable, and therefore stunningly boring. Not here. 

[Morch]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolutely spot on. Great observations. Whatever technology an alien civilization would use, would likely be "light years" beyond what we have. We have not even mastered nuclear fusion, or non invasive surgery yet, which from a speculative philosophy point of view, is very crude, and not advanced at all. Surely they would have far more efficient means of communication, travel, healing, and living more fulfilled lives, not so bogged down by petty conflicts, toxic politics, war, and greed. Even a tiny advancement over our so called civilization would be able to achieve those steps. 

 

Surely how? It's not too hard to imagine a highly advanced civilization who doesn't "play nice", or one that who's principals do not correspond or relate to ours. Not bogged down by conflicts, politics war and greed? Why not? I doubt we're unique in this. And more to the point, if they actually do see us in such a light, why would they wish to contribute anything to such a species advancement?