Krungsri blocking online transfers for joint accounts

[samtam]

Yesterday I attempted to make a simple and quite small transfer from my joint Krungsri account to a third party, and, separately, even to another Thai bank account in my name, but the transactions were denied.

I rang their 1572 customer service and was informed that WEF 8 June Krungsri does not permit online transfers from joint accounts. They also advised that they had not notified customers of this new bank policy.

Apparently the measure is to prevent fraud and dispute between joint account holders, although I would imagine this issue is covered in their account opening agreement form.

The only remedy is to withdraw the funds by cash at an ATM, and/or open separate accounts.

Staggered by the level of unprofessionalism, and irritated by the inability to make a simple transfer from my account.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, samtam said:

and irritated by the inability to make a simple transfer from my account.

Their point being it isn't 'your' account.

[BigStar]

Sorry you're irritated. Relax with soothing caresses and an adult beverage. We have lovely views here in Pattaya, too.

 

Well, it seems like it's not such bad policy. Krungsi probably got tired of dealing all the disputes. You may check with other banks and if they still permit such transfers you may change to one of them.

[lopburi3]

Can you still transfer at an ATM with card?  I have made 4 online transfers to both BBL and 3rd party accounts from our Bangkok Bank account online since June 10.  I assume your account is set up for either signature rather than requiring both?

[samtam]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Can you still transfer at an ATM with card?  I have made 4 online transfers to both BBL and 3rd party accounts from our Bangkok Bank account online since June 10.  I assume your account is set up for either signature rather than requiring both?

I just withdrew the (daily) maximum THB200k today in cash from the ATM and walked it round to my OUB account. I will do that continuously until it has the bare minimum.

 

Yes, the account is operable by one signature only. My understanding this is only Krungsri which has arbitrarily introduced this block for online transactions. Going to the ATM to do transactions/transfers to third parties seems so backward, but perhaps I've misunderstood, and you are not suggesting that.

 

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Their point being it isn't 'your' account.

Actually, it is. It's operable by one signature.

 

2 hours ago, BigStar said:

 

 

Well, it seems like it's not such bad policy. Krungsi probably got tired of dealing all the disputes. You may check with other banks and if they still permit such transfers you may change to one of them.

Well, I don't suppose it occurred to them to exclude any liability in the myriad of forms we signed when we opened the joint account, the successors to our HSBC accounts after they closed retail business in Thailand. And, yes we operate all other joint HSBC accounts worldwide online or by one signature, probably because they've covered their liability.  

Edited June 28, 2020 by samtam

[roath]

16 hours ago, samtam said:

I just withdrew the (daily) maximum THB200k today in cash from the ATM and walked it round to my OUB account. I will do that continuously until it has the bare minimum.

 

Yes, the account is operable by one signature only. My understanding this is only Krungsri which has arbitrarily introduced this block for online transactions. Going to the ATM to do transactions/transfers to third parties seems so backward, but perhaps I've misunderstood, and you are not suggesting that.

 

Actually, it is. It's operable by one signature.

 

Well, I don't suppose it occurred to them to exclude any liability in the myriad of forms we signed when we opened the joint account, the successors to our HSBC accounts after they closed retail business in Thailand. And, yes we operate all other joint HSBC accounts worldwide online or by one signature, probably because they've covered their liability.  

Legally, to say that something is 'yours' when it belongs to two people jointly is problematic, as in law you hold on trust for the other person rather than actual ownership which would be an unencumbered right

 

The issue is problematic in other countries, as well as Thailand, and simply getting joint account holders to sign forms doesn't necessarily mean the end of any disputes or indeed the bank's responsibility or liability in law (e.g. if one party requires the bank to send SMS or emails to only one of them, so the other party has no idea what is going on and/or they change the terms of the original mandate so that a higher amount can be withdrawn than was agreed on the original mandate).

 

Yes, the forms can say that that can happen, but nevertheless people still don't always appreciate the extent of the sole mandate e.g. that it means that the other person can clear out the account without any reference to the other person. Mostly, the bank avoids liability, but not always (e.g. if one account holder calls the bank to put a hold on transactions, but the system isn't updated or something or if the T&Cs aren't signed by both parties or aren't clear enough or extensive enough etc.)

 

Most lawyers' recommendations (and common sense) would be that you use a joint account for household etc. expenses which is a relatively limited amount rather than have all your savings in a joint account (all your eggs in one basket)

 

[Iamemjay]

I did a transfer from my wife's and my joint Krungsi account to a third party just this morning. No problem at all. I regularly do it. There has to be something else getting in the way in your case.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Iamemjay
Omission

[lopburi3]

16 hours ago, samtam said:

Going to the ATM to do transactions/transfers to third parties seems so backward, but perhaps I've misunderstood, and you are not suggesting that.

Was trying to find out if indeed no third party allowed or just online service from home internet.  Above posts seems to indicate this is not a general policy so wonder if both of you sent money to a different person at a different bank or perhaps one sent to different person but at same company bank?  We assume you do not have issues with joint account holder?

[Max69xl]

17 hours ago, samtam said:

I just withdrew the (daily) maximum THB200k today in cash from the ATM and walked it round to my OUB account. I will do that continuously until it has the bare minimum.

 

Yes, the account is operable by one signature only. My understanding this is only Krungsri which has arbitrarily introduced this block for online transactions. Going to the ATM to do transactions/transfers to third parties seems so backward, but perhaps I've misunderstood, and you are not suggesting that.

 

Actually, it is. It's operable by one signature.

 

Well, I don't suppose it occurred to them to exclude any liability in the myriad of forms we signed when we opened the joint account, the successors to our HSBC accounts after they closed retail business in Thailand. And, yes we operate all other joint HSBC accounts worldwide online or by one signature, probably because they've covered their liability.  

Then take a walk to to your branch and get another account in your name only. I have never understood why people wants joint accounts with Thai gf's or wives. It will one day bite you in the a**.

[samtam]

1 hour ago, Iamemjay said:

I did a transfer from my wife's and my joint Krungsi account to a third party just this morning. No problem at all. I regularly do it. There has to be something else getting in the way in your case.

Interesting. Online, or through the ATM?

ATM works, but not online.

I just had a confirmation email from my Krungsri account manager confirming that joint accounts cannot be operated online since 8 June.

[samtam]

1 hour ago, lopburi3 said:

Was trying to find out if indeed no third party allowed or just online service from home internet.  Above posts seems to indicate this is not a general policy so wonder if both of you sent money to a different person at a different bank or perhaps one sent to different person but at same company bank?  We assume you do not have issues with joint account holder?

Just online service. Can transact away through ATM or at the branch. No issue with joint account holder.

[samtam]

33 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Then take a walk to to your branch and get another account in your name only. I have never understood why people wants joint accounts with Thai gf's or wives. It will one day bite you in the a**.

Yes, we will close the joint accounts and open sole accounts at Krungsri, (where we have other sole accounts for the IMM THB800k purposes).

 

I can't explain joint accounts if your don't understand why couples/spouses have or want them.

Edited June 29, 2020 by samtam

[samtam]

1 hour ago, roath said:

Legally, to say that something is 'yours' when it belongs to two people jointly is problematic, as in law you hold on trust for the other person rather than actual ownership which would be an unencumbered right

 

The issue is problematic in other countries, as well as Thailand, and simply getting joint account holders to sign forms doesn't necessarily mean the end of any disputes or indeed the bank's responsibility or liability in law (e.g. if one party requires the bank to send SMS or emails to only one of them, so the other party has no idea what is going on and/or they change the terms of the original mandate so that a higher amount can be withdrawn than was agreed on the original mandate).

 

Yes, the forms can say that that can happen, but nevertheless people still don't always appreciate the extent of the sole mandate e.g. that it means that the other person can clear out the account without any reference to the other person. Mostly, the bank avoids liability, but not always (e.g. if one account holder calls the bank to put a hold on transactions, but the system isn't updated or something or if the T&Cs aren't signed by both parties or aren't clear enough or extensive enough etc.)

 

Most lawyers' recommendations (and common sense) would be that you use a joint account for household etc. expenses which is a relatively limited amount rather than have all your savings in a joint account (all your eggs in one basket)

 

If joint accounts are as dodgy as you suggest, I'm surprised they are in existence anywhere.

[samtam]

Another absurdity is that with our two joint accounts, one a savings, and one a current account, we cannot transfer online from the joint savings to the joint current, or vice versa.

 

So in essence, Krungsri have made joint accounts only operable by ATM or by cheque, or by a visit to the branch.

[spornb]

Remember this is Thailand, I have been here 10 plus yrs

 

Many many things <deleted> me off about the way banks operate here, but I have to accept it, normally I find a work around solution

 

Samtam at 200,000 bhat per day, how many MONTHS  are you going to have do the ATM withdrawal and then redeposit !!!!

[jimn]

31 minutes ago, samtam said:

Another absurdity is that with our two joint accounts, one a savings, and one a current account, we cannot transfer online from the joint savings to the joint current, or vice versa.

 

So in essence, Krungsri have made joint accounts only operable by ATM or by cheque, or by a visit to the branch.

Many banks around the world are adding extra security to transactions carried out online via a computer. Krungsri might e taking this a step further and stopping online transactions on joint accounts? There are no restrictions when you do a tranasction via a smart phone app, you already will have passed the security. I have apps from Bangkok Bank and SCB, I can transfer money between them in seconds. Does Krungsri have a banking app? Just a suggestion.

[Matzzon]

22 hours ago, samtam said:

The only remedy is to withdraw the funds by cash at an ATM, and/or open separate accounts.

Staggered by the level of unprofessionalism, and irritated by the inability to make a simple transfer from my account.

Welcome to Thailand! ???? 

[samtam]

12 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Welcome to Thailand! ???? 

Well, I've been here 17 years, and I've had this joint online operated account since HSBC closed in 2012. A notice to customers might not have gone amiss. 

[samtam]

43 minutes ago, jimn said:

Many banks around the world are adding extra security to transactions carried out online via a computer. Krungsri might e taking this a step further and stopping online transactions on joint accounts? There are no restrictions when you do a tranasction via a smart phone app, you already will have passed the security. I have apps from Bangkok Bank and SCB, I can transfer money between them in seconds. Does Krungsri have a banking app? Just a suggestion.

Thanks. I just checked. They do have an app. You cannot transact on the app for a joint account.

Edited June 29, 2020 by samtam

[Matzzon]

41 minutes ago, samtam said:

Well, I've been here 17 years, and I've had this joint online operated account since HSBC closed in 2012. A notice to customers might not have gone amiss. 

Yeah, they do <deleted>ty things to people sometimes. I have over 20 years experience of this country. ???? 

You should have been informed, but that´s just how they operate.

[natway09]

Slow down, take a deep breath & think about this new rule which has been put in place to

protect your half of the money.

Their mistake was not advising you .

Pop in & see them & change what needs to be changed

[GreasyFingers]

4 hours ago, samtam said:

Interesting. Online, or through the ATM?

ATM works, but not online.

I just had a confirmation email from my Krungsri account manager confirming that joint accounts cannot be operated online since 8 June.

I hope the other banks don't follow this or I will not be putting any more money in our joint account.

[samtam]

2 hours ago, natway09 said:

Slow down, take a deep breath & think about this new rule which has been put in place to

protect your half of the money.

Their mistake was not advising you .

Pop in & see them & change what needs to be changed

It's very kind of Krungsri to get involved in my personal financial arrangements, although I never asked for it, nor did they advise me they were doing it.

[gamini]

11 hours ago, Max69xl said:

Then take a walk to to your branch and get another account in your name only. I have never understood why people wants joint accounts with Thai gf's or wives. It will one day bite you in the a**.

So what happens if you die. Your wife will have a real problem getting any money if it is in your account. That's why have a joint account

[boriga]

For what it is worth I have been doing online banking with a joint account from Krungsri, making almost 20 transactions, so far, since 8 June.

 

I would suggest the policy is not absolute, but discretionary as mentioned above.

 

My wife as joint account holder is NOT Thai. That may be a crucial point.

[lopburi3]

10 hours ago, gamini said:

So what happens if you die. Your wife will have a real problem getting any money if it is in your account. That's why have a joint account

It will delay but if she is next of kin it should get to her in time - some take the step of having an ATM card available to drain account (not exactly legal but if really next of kin not likely to be challenged).  Ideally another account in her name or joint to tide over a few months.

[samtam]

2 hours ago, boriga said:

For what it is worth I have been doing online banking with a joint account from Krungsri, making almost 20 transactions, so far, since 8 June.

 

I would suggest the policy is not absolute, but discretionary as mentioned above.

 

My wife as joint account holder is NOT Thai. That may be a crucial point.

Thank you. I will inquire. My joint account holder is not Thai either, but neither is he my spouse, under Thai law.

[Iamemjay]

On 6/29/2020 at 10:57 AM, samtam said:

Interesting. Online, or through the ATM?

ATM works, but not online.

I just had a confirmation email from my Krungsri account manager confirming that joint accounts cannot be operated online since 8 June.

Online. No problems whatsoever.

[roath]

On 6/29/2020 at 11:10 AM, samtam said:

If joint accounts are as dodgy as you suggest, I'm surprised they are in existence anywhere.

I didn't use the word 'dodgy' once. Neither did I suggest that they were in any way 'dodgy'

Within the context of the original post, I was simply pointing out that there are issues with joint accounts in terms of either party typically being unencumbered as to what they can do with the account, which isn't necessarily what people want when they set up the account, or don't think about it, or don't think it will be a problem because at the time, they are 'in love' etc.

 

There is nothing wrong with joint accounts, provided that the parties accept that the other party can empty the account without any reference to you and possibly even take out lending/borrowing/overdraft without the other party (i.e. you) knowing about it or agreeing to it

 

[boriga]

On 6/30/2020 at 7:59 AM, boriga said:

For what it is worth I have been doing online banking with a joint account from Krungsri, making almost 20 transactions, so far, since 8 June.

 

I would suggest the policy is not absolute, but discretionary as mentioned above.

 

My wife as joint account holder is NOT Thai. That may be a crucial point.

Update: As of 17 Sep the same happened to me rendering our joint account ineligible for online or app based transactions. I guess there is (has been and will be) a roll out of this policy taking place.

 

Why on earth is is so piecemeal and ad hoc? Surely, you have a new policy, announce it with a future date to take effect. Simple. Apparently not.