Trump says 'more white people' than Blacks are killed by U.S. police

[xylophone]

5 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No need for the childish insult. demeans any credibility you're trying to establish.

Put him on ignore a while ago 'simple1', not worth wasting time on.

[rabas]

29 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Fake news.  Perhaps this should be removed as its purpose is to promote further hatred. Thompson was a newspaperman. The confederate battle flag was designed by William Porcher Miles. As mayor of Charleston, he was responsible for many good social changes, including providing help to poor and migrant blacks.

 

"In the area of social reform, Miles created a house of corrections for juveniles, an almshouse, an orphanage and an asylum. He provided aid for transient poor and free black paupers and implemented a sewage system as a health measure."

 

Fact. The confederate flag was designed by a progressive who provided comfort and assistance to blacks in need.

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by rabas

[Logosone]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No need for the childish insult. demeans any credibility you're trying to establish. Regards Fryer's report...

 

In 2016, Fryer published a working paper concluding that although minorities (African Americans and Hispanics) are more likely to experience police use of force than whites, they were not more likely to be shot by police than whites.^[11] The study generated considerable controversy and criticism.^{[12][13][14][15]} Fryer addressed some of these criticisms in an interview with the New York Times.^[16] In 2019, Fryer's paper was published in the Journal of Political Economy.^[17] More recent academic work, written in response to Fryer and others, has argued that the types of conclusions generated through administrative records on police stops are mathematically incapable of reaching the conclusions advocated by Fryer's work.^[18]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_G._Fryer_Jr.

Nice try, that paper's criticism of Fryer relates to "stops", not fatal shootings.

 

From that very paper:

 

Using the coding rules and estimation procedures in Fryer (2019), we were able to closely replicate the published results.

 

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-science-review/article/administrative-records-mask-racially-biased-policing/66BC0F9998543868BB20F241796B79B8/core-reader

 

They then go on to criticise the data on pepper spray use and police baton use, which does not concern us here.

 

They have no criticism of the actual conclusion, that blacks are not shot in greater numbers than whites.

 

I have read line for line the study you refer and nowhere do they state that blacks are shot in greater numbers by police than Whites. 

 

Obviously because that is not the case.

 

 

[simple1]

19 minutes ago, Logosone said:

<SNIP>

 

I have read line for line the study you refer and nowhere do they state that blacks are shot in greater numbers by police than Whites. 

 

Obviously because that is not the case.

As with a number of other posters, all you're doing is mimicking trump's deflection of the reporters line of questioning. The issue at hand is the proportional percentage of black deaths by police versus the number of killing of whites by police, As an example the numbers below highlight the matter, but are from a 2012 report, over to someone to locate a more recent version of the same analysis to ascertain if the disparity still remain between black and white killings by police.

 

Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

[earlinclaifornia]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Fake news.  Perhaps this should be removed as its purpose is to promote further hatred. Thompson was a newspaperman. The confederate battle flag was designed by William Porcher Miles. As mayor of Charleston, he was responsible for many good social changes, including providing help to poor and migrant blacks.

 

"In the area of social reform, Miles created a house of corrections for juveniles, an almshouse, an orphanage and an asylum. He provided aid for transient poor and free black paupers and implemented a sewage system as a health measure."

 

Fact. The confederate flag was designed by a progressive who provided comfort and assistance to blacks in need.

 

Go ahead and prove this is not true. We all rally around the facts. Put up or shut up please!

[Logosone]

15 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

I have already posted the data from the BBC that blacks are, relative to their proportion of the population more than twice as likely to be shot dead by police.

 

However, the study you refer to does not take into account that blacks commit 53% of homicides and 60% of robberies, whilst only representing 13% of the population.

 

Fatal police shootings are a function of how often officers encounter armed and violent suspects. Given the fact that blacks commit 53% of homicides and 60% of robberies, whilst being only 13% of population, obviously you would expect them to be in fact 4 times more likely to be the victims of fatal police shootings, not 2.8 times.

 

You control for the percentage of population but that works both ways. If you argue that police shootings of blacks are more than twice as likely as for whites, when controlling for the 13% of population, then you also have to control for the fact that blacks commit 53% of homicides and 60% of robberies with 13% of the population. Therefore, by the sheer number of encounters of policemen with armed and dangerous suspects, one should expect blacks to be 4 times more likely to be shot, not just 2.8 times. 

[earlinclaifornia]

1 hour ago, rabas said:

Fake news.  Perhaps this should be removed as its purpose is to promote further hatred. Thompson was a newspaperman. The confederate battle flag was designed by William Porcher Miles. As mayor of Charleston, he was responsible for many good social changes, including providing help to poor and migrant blacks.

 

"In the area of social reform, Miles created a house of corrections for juveniles, an almshouse, an orphanage and an asylum. He provided aid for transient poor and free black paupers and implemented a sewage system as a health measure."

 

Fact. The confederate flag was designed by a progressive who provided comfort and assistance to blacks in need.

 

One of us has a reputation of posting falsities. 

William Porcher Miles (July 4, 1822 – May 11, 1899) was among the ardent states' rights advocates, supporters of slavery, and Southern secessionists

William Tappan Thompson - Wikipedia

As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.... [sic].

Died: March 24, 1882, Savannah, Georgia

Born: August 31, 1812, Ravenna, Ohio

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/apr/11/viral-image/viral-image-about-confederate-flag/

Edited July 16, 2020 by earlinclaifornia

[Logosone]

33 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

 

Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites. Most victims were reported to be armed (83%); however, black victims were more likely to be unarmed (14.8%) than white (9.4%) or Hispanic (5.8%) victims. 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

From the study you posted:

 

"However, the authors found no differences in rates of injury or death per 10,000 stops/arrests by race—that is, blacks and whites were equally likely to be injured or killed during a stop/arrest incident."

 

So yet another study confirms that the central complaint at the heart of BLM, that blacks are shot more than whites by police, as simply....false.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Logosone

[RobFord]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:47 AM, stephenterry said:

The point being is that people are people whatever their colour, religious beliefs etc. etc. There is no need to bring racism into a response when it should have been a tightening up of crimes committed countrywide. In other words, focus on reducing the serious crimes, particularly drug abuse crime rates, by whatever means. Which, in the USA, is pitiful, IMO.  

 

On 7/15/2020 at 8:52 AM, DoctorG said:

I agree with you except that the question posed to Trump was a racial question and quoting facts pertinent to the question was his response.

I like that you agree with stephenterry’s post. Wouldn’t you rather it had been Trumps? 

[rabas]

24 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Go ahead and prove this is not true. We all rally around the facts. Put up or shut up please!

LOL. Already proven!  It's in the wiki reference I provided. Go read it. You have to click it.

 

What makes you think they don't know who designed the flag?

 

William Porcher Miles designed the confederate flag.

 

He is notable for having designed the most popular variant of the Confederate flag, originally rejected as the national flag in 1861 but adopted as a battle flag by the Army of Northern Virginia under General Robert E. Lee[1] before it was reincorporated. THIS IS THE ONE IN YOUR POST.

Edited July 16, 2020 by rabas

[simple1]

21 minutes ago, Logosone said:

From the study you posted:

 

"However, the authors found no differences in rates of injury or death per 10,000 stops/arrests by race—that is, blacks and whites were equally likely to be injured or killed during a stop/arrest incident."

 

So yet another study confirms that the central complaint at the heart of BLM, that blacks are shot more than whites by police, as simply....false.

 

 

Well proportionally by way of % of population it's not false is it, admittedly does sound somewhat like the style of trump propaganda. However, does finally appear getting nearer to the facts of the matter. I searched for your quote on the website but came up with below response, not going though potentially 21k plus hits, so please provide a link to your quote.

 

Search results

Items: 1 to 20 of 217473

 

 

[RobFord]

30 minutes ago, Logosone said:

From the study you posted:

 

"However, the authors found no differences in rates of injury or death per 10,000 stops/arrests by race—that is, blacks and whites were equally likely to be injured or killed during a stop/arrest incident."

 

So yet another study confirms that the central complaint at the heart of BLM, that blacks are shot more than whites by police, as simply....false.

 

 

What part of this from the study did you miss, Logosone?

 

“Blacks had 2.8 times the rate of legal intervention death compared with whites;”

 

“Victims were predominantly male (96.1%) with a mean age of 36.7 years. Although a majority were white, black victims were over-represented (32.4%) relative to the U.S. population.^f36 Blacks had 2.8 times the rate of legal intervention death compared with whites; rates among whites and Hispanics were similar.”

 

Couldn’t find logosone’s quote in the report, and suggest others read it themselves.
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

[Logosone]

19 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Well proportionally by way of % of population it's not false is it, admittedly does sound somewhat like the style of trump propaganda. However, does finally appear getting nearer to the facts of the matter. I searched for your quote on the website but came up with below response, not going though potentially 21k plus hits, so please provide a link to your quote.

 

The quote was taken from your own study. Which YOU linked to already.

 

So obviously you haven't bothered to read that study in full.

 

The quote is there,  

 

"However, the authors found no differences in rates of injury or death per 10,000 stops/arrests by race—that is, blacks and whites were equally likely to be injured or killed during a stop/arrest incident." 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

 

 

[Logosone]

34 minutes ago, RobFord said:

What part of this from the study did you miss, Logosone?

 

“Blacks had 2.8 times the rate of legal intervention death compared with whites;”

 

“Victims were predominantly male (96.1%) with a mean age of 36.7 years. Although a majority were white, black victims were over-represented (32.4%) relative to the U.S. population.^f36 Blacks had 2.8 times the rate of legal intervention death compared with whites; rates among whites and Hispanics were similar.”

 

Couldn’t find logosone’s quote in the report, and suggest others read it themselves.
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

Another one who hasn't read the study in full.

 

I explained this already, but I will make it simple for you:

 

1) Yes, blacks are represented in the shooting figures by a factor exceeding 2 when you consider they represent 13% of population, HOWEVER

 

2) Blacks represent 53% of homicide arrests and around 60% of robberies with only 13% of population (factor exceeding 4) THEREFORE

 

3) Since officer shootings are a factor of the number of encounters with armed and dangerous suspects, and Blacks are more likely by factor exceeding 4 to engage in homicide and robberies crimes you would in fact expect Blacks to be shot more than 4 times more often relative to population proportion of 13%.

 

However they are not. As the study from simple1 makes clear past studies have found this:

 

"However, the authors found no differences in rates of injury or death per 10,000 stops/arrests by race—that is, blacks and whites were equally likely to be injured or killed during a stop/arrest incident." 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Logosone

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

The quote was taken from your own study. Which YOU linked to already.

 

So obviously you haven't bothered to read that study in full.

 

The quote is there,  

 

"However, the authors found no differences in rates of injury or death per 10,000 stops/arrests by race—that is, blacks and whites were equally likely to be injured or killed during a stop/arrest incident." 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

 

 

Correct, I didn't read the entire report. quoted from the report summary. I've now located your quote and contextual info. There is a great deal more background info if members are interested enough to research. For the meantime some quotes which should assist with further comprehension of the circumstances of killings by police which debunk some assumptions posted by a number of members.

 

Black victims were significantly more likely to be unarmed than white or Hispanic victims. Black victims were also significantly less likely than whites to have posed an immediate threat to LE. White victims were significantly more likely than black victims to be killed in incidents related to mental health or substance-induced disruptive behaviors and more likely than black or Hispanic victims to be involved in potential “suicide by cop” incidents.

 

Among those who died by legal intervention, this study found that the percentage of incidents involving mental health or substance-induced disruptive behaviors was three times higher for whites than blacks,

 

It has been suggested elsewhere ^12,16 that higher rates of deaths due to lethal force against blacks may be accounted for by differences in the frequency of police contact. Recent national data identified few differences between blacks and whites in the frequency of most forms of police contact,

 

Relatedly, studies of “shooter bias” have found that both civilians and LE officers showed a greater tendency to shoot unarmed black men than white men in computer simulations.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/

 

[teatree]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:58 AM, stephenterry said:

In which case he should have responded like any politician by side-tracking the racism card and focusing on what should have been done to prevent violent crime rates. But, in his case, he's a sociopath without any conscience. 

Why should he side-step?  The while BLM mess going on at the moment is based on a gross misrepresentation of the facts and it is about time someone pointed that out.

[teatree]

On 7/15/2020 at 10:02 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

That’s not ‘lefty spin’ it’s  a mathematically proven fact.

 

The math is not difficult but nevertheless some struggle to grasp it.

The 'lefty spin' spin is that they leave out of the equation that young black men are disproportionately involved in violent crime and resisting arrest.  

 

When these facts are added to the equation it really isn't so difficult to see why more blacks are killed per capita than whites.

[EVENKEEL]

5 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I'd prefer if he first apologized for being a corrupt and treasonous president.

You're out of order.

[EVENKEEL]

4 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Many Americans are mad at the people who support such a turd. He has never been anything but a disgusting person and those that blindly support him are responsible for the worst Presidency ever in America. 

No, the democrats are the ones responsible for Trump, own up to your mistakes.

[Dave0206]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:14 AM, BobBKK said:

Blacks commit most of the homicides and totally disproportionately. Robbery? Assault? I mean the data is the data.

They also disproportionately occupy jails for trumped up charges .can you even begin to imagine spending 20 to 30 years in jail for something you did not do?

even when proven innocent mr Trump can not bare to admit he was wrong if he got his way they would have been executed probably lethal injection not our reality star way “you”re fired

[Phoenix Rising]

13 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

No, the democrats are the ones responsible for Trump, own up to your mistakes.

That's one of the lamest disclaimers in history.

[Phoenix Rising]

16 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

You're out of order.

For pointing out the obvious?

[rabas]

34 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

48 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

No, the democrats are the ones responsible for Trump, own up to your mistakes.

That's one of the lamest disclaimers in history.

It's simply deplorable.

 

[Phoenix Rising]

25 minutes ago, rabas said:

It's simply deplorable.

 

I think we're past that point.

[Logosone]

1 hour ago, teatree said:

The 'lefty spin' spin is that they leave out of the equation that young black men are disproportionately involved in violent crime and resisting arrest.  

 

When these facts are added to the equation it really isn't so difficult to see why more blacks are killed per capita than whites.

In fact if one factors in that blacks commit 53% of homicides in the US but only represent 13% of population;

 

That blacks commit close to 60% of robberies but only represent 13% of population;

 

And therefore there would be more encounters by officers with armed and dangerous black criminals then you would simply expect that blacks are shot more often in proportion to the 13% they represent of the population.

 

It's only logical.

 

Donald Trump surprised everyone by pointing out this reality, and completely removed the basis of BLM in one move.

[checkered flag]

1 hour ago, Dave0206 said:

They also disproportionately occupy jails for trumped up charges .can you even begin to imagine spending 20 to 30 years in jail for something you did not do?

even when proven innocent mr Trump can not bare to admit he was wrong if he got his way they would have been executed probably lethal injection not our reality star way “you”re fired

What are you talking about. Trump signed the first step act to correct Black incarceration under the dems. He's actively tried to improve the lives of many blacks, much more so that the Obama/Biden duo.

[Dave0206]

Central Park 5 trump called for death penalty after dna proves them innocent still not enough for you re man .

as regards trump doing more for blacks I assume you mean his bromance with Kanye west ?

well suited to each other

[earlinclaifornia]

4 hours ago, rabas said:

LOL. Already proven!  It's in the wiki reference I provided. Go read it. You have to click it.

 

What makes you think they don't know who designed the flag?

 

William Porcher Miles designed the confederate flag.

 

He is notable for having designed the most popular variant of the Confederate flag, originally rejected as the national flag in 1861 but adopted as a battle flag by the Army of Northern Virginia under General Robert E. Lee[1] before it was reincorporated. THIS IS THE ONE IN YOUR POST.

Did you read mine? It is clear you again are not reading correctly

[RANGER55]

2 hours ago, Dave0206 said:

They also disproportionately occupy jails for trumped up charges .can you even begin to imagine spending 20 to 30 years in jail for something you did not do?

even when proven innocent mr Trump can not bare to admit he was wrong if he got his way they would have been executed probably lethal injection not our reality star way “you”re fired

Trump and the DOJ just pushed through an execution of a white nationalist that killed three people to include a 3 year old girl. That all the left wing was trying to stop.

 So, Trump has been in office 3 1/2 years and he is responsible for all these people locked up. Not the crime bill that sleepy joe helped push through and bragged about. Of course, SJ probably don’t remember!

[RANGER55]

7 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Many Americans are mad at the people who support such a turd. He has never been anything but a disgusting person and those that blindly support him are responsible for the worst Presidency ever in America. 

Come on now, why you got to call Obama names!