2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Well obviously the fact that whites are 60% of the population will have a teeny tiny effect on the number of whites killed by police. 

 

However, the interesting thing regarding blacks is that relative to population, they are only 13% of population but 23% of police shootings fatal victims are black.

 

This is obviously due to the fact that blacks committ 53% of homicides and 60% of robberies. They should actually be 4 times more likely to be shot, not twice as likely, when one controls for the likelihood of armed black criminals encountering a police officer.

Yes, good to put the numbers in perspective. To see what is happening the numbers should not be cherry picked, but presented within their context. Only then they can be understood correctly.

While I seldom agree with Trump, the question by the reporter was badly put: "Why are black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement in this country" is bad reporting. Imagine if you ask the same question about native Americans, Asians or whites?

 

The real question that should be asked is "Why is a disproportionate number of black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement?" or "What is your plan to deal with the disproportionare number of black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement?"

 

Asking the way the reporter did was to let Trump to reply that white people are dying at the hands of law enforcement too - and Trump does not have to lie or use one of his many rhetorical devices to escape answering the question as he did and answered it truthfully (even though we may not like the implicature of his reply!).

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

This is obviously due to the fact that blacks committ 53% of homicides and 60% of robberies. They should actually be 4 times more likely to be shot, not twice as likely, when one controls for the likelihood of armed black criminals encountering a police officer.

The problem is that the police is not shooting enough, hence the discrepancy. 

 

Police officers should always patrol with gun in hand, instead of keeping it holstered as if it was just for show... 

 

 

Chicago has the highest amount of violent crime in America and the highest percentage of black people but maybe unrelated.

 They should compare number of violent crimes committed by black and white people and then use that to compare white and black peoples shot by police. 

When a white person is shot by the police he is a violent criminal. When a black person is shot by the police it is due to racist cops.
Los Angeles has tried changing standards to hire more black cops to avoid appearance of racial prejudice. But I heard black cops complain racial profiling if asked to work in black area.

2 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

While I seldom agree with Trump, the question by the reporter was badly put: "Why are black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement in this country" is bad reporting. Imagine if you ask the same question about native Americans, Asians or whites?

 

The real question that should be asked is "Why is a disproportionate number of black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement?" or "What is your plan to deal with the disproportionare number of black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement?"

 

Asking the way the reporter did was to let Trump to reply that white people are dying at the hands of law enforcement too - and Trump does not have to lie or use one of his many rhetorical devices to escape answering the question as he did and answered it truthfully (even though we may not like the implicature of his reply!).

The sickness of the US Political system is so obvious at the fact that mentioning that not only black people die, not only black lifes matter, but all lifes matter, is now answered by a Twitter mob trying to cancel you, to get you out of your job, to destroy you. 
 

Even black people which dare to mention that mainly blacks kill blacks get targeted by these mobs.

 

Sick and disgusting, and even more disgusting that this is tolerated, or even promoted, just to win the next election.
 

Who would have thought 10 years ago that cancel culture and censorship would become the new normal in the US?

5 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The problem is that the police is not shooting enough, hence the discrepancy. 

 

Police officers should always patrol with gun in hand, instead of keeping it holstered as if it was just for show... 

 

 

Forgive me, but as a Brit, I though that they did that anyway. How else are they going to be able to shoot someone in the back as they run away?   I've seen the movies, or was that John Wayne with his Winchester?  

8 minutes ago, yuyiinthesky said:

Yes, good to put the numbers in perspective. To see what is happening the numbers should not be cherry picked, but presented within their context. Only then they can be understood correctly.

The fraud which BLM people throw out is of course that blacks are more likely to be shot relative to population. Whilst on the face of it that is true, the fact that blacks commit 53% of homicides and 60% of robberies with only 13% of the population obviously means that the chances of a police officer encountering an armed black criminal are over 4 times higher.

 

So yes, relative to population blacks are twice more likely to be shot by police, but relative to population they commit over 4 times more homicides and robberies. 

 

So actually they should be 4 times more at risk of being shot by police, not twice.

 

It should be heavily underlined this is a minority of blacks and the vast majority of black people are wonderful with many genius level hard working great individuals. It is so hard to be black because this sizeable minority is so criminal and therefore the prejudices about black criminals exist. I really feel for my black friends. It's not easy to be black.

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

He was asked a question and he answered, oh the horror. Also possible blacks per capita do more bad st**e.

"st**e"???????????? id you mean s**t?

Edited July 15, 20205 yr by The Deerhunter

8 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

The only way to address an issue is to be honest about it

Well said, same in other countries  too, never  hear much about Chinese /Japanese having these sort  of problems with "harrassment"

Yes; more whites are killed by cops than blacks.

Yes; with percentage of population figured in, the rates change.

But, in the context of "Black Lives Matter", blacks are killing blacks at a rate that has no comparison. 

18 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

While I seldom agree with Trump, the question by the reporter was badly put: "Why are black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement in this country" is bad reporting. Imagine if you ask the same question about native Americans, Asians or whites?

 

The real question that should be asked is "Why is a disproportionate number of black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement?" or "What is your plan to deal with the disproportionare number of black Americans dying at the hands of law enforcement?"

 

Asking the way the reporter did was to let Trump to reply that white people are dying at the hands of law enforcement too - and Trump does not have to lie or use one of his many rhetorical devices to escape answering the question as he did and answered it truthfully (even though we may not like the implicature of his reply!).

Agree with your observation of a poorly articulated question. If you read the question sequence it was obvious to what the reporter was referring, but gave an opportunity for trump to deflect.

Crime statistics in usa

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43

 

The overview makes for interesting reading. 
For example

”In 2017, 68.9 percent of all individuals arrested were white”

 

 

Another article on guns and crime

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/08/gun-deaths-affect-more-white-men-than-black-men/?outputType=amp

Edited July 15, 20205 yr by Bluespunk

15 minutes ago, Logosone said:

The fraud which BLM people throw out is of course that blacks are more likely to be shot relative to population. Whilst on the face of it that is true, the fact that blacks commit 53% of homicides and 60% of robberies with only 13% of the population obviously means that the chances of a police officer encountering an armed black criminal are over 4 times higher.

 

So yes, relative to population blacks are twice more likely to be shot by police, but relative to population they commit over 4 times more homicides and robberies. 

 

So actually they should be 4 times more at risk of being shot by police, not twice.

 

It should be heavily underlined this is a minority of blacks and the vast majority of black people are wonderful with many genius level hard working great individuals. It is so hard to be black because this sizeable minority is so criminal and therefore the prejudices about black criminals exist. I really feel for my black friends. It's not easy to be black.

Good post and a set of stats that many liberal minds don't seem to grasp, or want to acknowledge. We also know that abject poverty among the black communities, terrible housing in the hoods, low educational attainment and significant gang culture also contribute and in the execution of the law, the Police come across some very bad situations.  

3 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Good post and a set of stats that many liberal minds don't seem to grasp, or want to acknowledge. We also know that abject poverty among the black communities, terrible housing in the hoods, low educational attainment and significant gang culture also contribute and in the execution of the law, the Police come across some very bad situations.  

The reasons why liberals (and anyone who is functionally numerate) has a problem with Logosone’s ‘statistics ‘ is because they are fabricated nonsense.

 

I’m not accusing Logosone of being the person who fabricated the numbers that he presents as statistics but he is disseminating fabricated nonsense.

 

For real traceable statistics, that also knock holes in Logosone’s claims refer tge data linked by Bluespink at #91.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The reasons why liberals (and anyone who is functionally numerate) has a problem with Logosone’s ‘statistics ‘ is because they are fabricated nonsense.

 

I’m not accusing Logosone of being the person who fabricated the numbers that he presents as statistics but he is disseminating fabricated nonsense.

 

For real traceable statistics, that also knock holes in Logosone’s claims refer tge data linked by Bluespink at #91.

 

 

I will, thanks 

Looking at statistics from Bluespunk for violent crimes, it appears for some violent crimes for black and white have similar numbers.   Some violent crimes blacks commit only half as many as white peoples. 
The conclusions are open to interpretation when you factor in the percent of population that is white and black.

 

My former job as an engineer employed about 85% white and Asian engineers. The wall of Manager’s was 70% black 20% Hispanic and 10% white. You’re open to interpret this as you prefer. 
At least at some universities in Los Angeles, free tutoring is available to non-white students. Are we all equal?

This is about police immune from prosecution when they kill black, white or brown.

The US police are brutal, They are schoolyard bullies, given minimal training and then given a badge and gun. They can then go out and shoot anyone they like. They need to change the laws to stop all this immunity. If a police life is genuinely in danger then ok they can shoot, but shooting a suspect in the back who is running away is monstrous....let them escape and get them later. 

 

I don't know why this line has appeared under my typing and I don't know how to get rid of it.

Edited July 15, 20205 yr by metisdead
Underscore removed.

White guys ain't running or fighting back. That was actually a cop who said that. 

He was right. We can't take our eyes off the reality of the statistics.

Some off topic deflection posts and replies about the UK have been removed.

 

Some troll posts have been removed. 

8 minutes ago, zhounan said:

He was right. We can't take our eyes off the reality of the statistics.

Or the fact that the reporting of police use of violence/police shooting suspects wrt race of suspect is not consistent across all forces and in many are not reported.

 

Which is why statistics on police shooting suspects by race have a large number in the ‘race unknown’ data field.

1 hour ago, Curt1591 said:

Yes; more whites are killed by cops than blacks.

Yes; with percentage of population figured in, the rates change.

But, in the context of "Black Lives Matter", blacks are killing blacks at a rate that has no comparison. 

Except the protests are not about blacks killing blacks or whites killing blacks. 

 

Its about police killing.

I thought the police officers that used excessive force restraining a suspected criminal resisting arrest are in jail charged with murder.

I believe those police officers had previous complaints about excessive force. I’m curious if previous complaints of excessive force were from white criminals resisting arrest or black criminals resisting arrest. 

 

Where is the injustice? A police officer (race irrelevant) used excessive force resulting in death and he’s on trial for murder.

Is rioting and looting electrónico stores a good way to promote your cause. 

For over 40 years there have been programs to help blacks to get out of poverty and get into university and be promoted in jobs. But now I believe the talk is just about reparations instead of encouraging education and gaining job skills.

 

But it is obvious that the police need to be retrained to say please and thank you when arresting people who are resisting arrest. They should tell them “please put your hands behind your back” as many times as necessary until they comply. If they resist or run, then do not use any kind of force to restrain them. Yell our politely, please stop, please stop. 

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The reasons why liberals (and anyone who is functionally numerate) has a problem with Logosone’s ‘statistics ‘ is because they are fabricated nonsense.

 

I’m not accusing Logosone of being the person who fabricated the numbers that he presents as statistics but he is disseminating fabricated nonsense.

 

For real traceable statistics, that also knock holes in Logosone’s claims refer tge data linked by Bluespink at #91.

 

 

Numbers are taken from the BBC, Yale University, US National Academy of Sciences, and the Wall Street Journal, who in turn took the data from very reputable sources, it is of course fantastic nonsense to claim those numbers are "fabricated":

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52877678

 

https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/area/workshop/leo/leo16_fryer.pdf

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/3/1261

 

 

 

Further confirmation from the US Department of Justice:

 

During a period of 29 years ON AVERAGE blacks were 52.2% homicide offenders, with only 13% of the population.

 

I have absolute confidence that the US Department of Justice does not "fabricate" its statistics. An outrageous accusation.

 

See page 62.

 

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htius.pdf

Edited July 15, 20205 yr by Logosone

52 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Except the protests are not about blacks killing blacks or whites killing blacks. 

 

Its about police killing.

At this point in time, the "protests" are about neither. 

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

During a period of 29 years ON AVERAGE blacks were 52.2% homicide offenders, with only 13% of the population.

But, we don't want to use that "13%" statistic in that context! 

23 minutes ago, brianp0803 said:

I thought the police officers that used excessive force restraining a suspected criminal resisting arrest are in jail charged with murder.

 

You thought wrong, that's the whole point. Without wishing to seem patronising, try reading up on the Aiyana Jones case, from the moment a cop threw an explosive device onto her bed, past the bit where the cop tried to frame the grandmother and the part where the judge halted the first trial because aforementioned grandmother became "emotional" during cross examination to the bit where a jury wouldn't even convict the cop of recklessly discharging his firearm. If you read that it might open your eyes to the injustice that you can't yet see.

Ask a silly question. . . 

 

FBI Statistics:

 

In 2017 Blacks charged with robbery 54%, Whites 43%, even though Blacks are 13% of the population and whites 60%.

 

So Chomper, I take it this is a grand conspiracy by the US Department of Justice, the FBI, the BBC, The Wall Street Journal and Yale University to "fabricate" crime figures, is it?

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/tables/table-43