I doubt it's unusual in out of control events like the one in Portland to have Federal Agents  mixed in with the protesters in the street to pick out the domestic terrorists/anarchists that are choreographing the violence.  Antifa has had free run of Portland Streets since this Mayor took office 3-1/2 years ago

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Not against the wishes of local authorities. China is doing the same in Hong Kong though.

Federal officers making arrests for violation of federal law committed on federal property. Locals have zero jurisdiction. This is not a centralized government. There are authorities over city, county, state, ports, and yes federal jurisdictions. 

You can say "China" all you want, but this is how the laws are in the US, for better or worse.

"Protesters" are not being pinched, it's arsonists, assailants, and people destroying government property.

 

At last a breath of fresh air thread, stopping the plague of the woodwork dwellers...

Just like termites, if you don't nip them in the bud they spread like wildfire..

 

So..................Hoorah......

7 minutes ago, nattaya09 said:

I doubt it's unusual in out of control events like the one in Portland to have Federal Agents  mixed in with the protesters in the street to pick out the domestic terrorists/anarchists that are choreographing the violence.  Antifa has had free run of Portland Streets since this Mayor took office 3-1/2 years ago

It may be true, but it's also difficult to get someone in. The people that are out at night know each other. They're not the same as the actual protesters just trying to be heard in the daytime.

They're very guarded and people are vetted and it takes a very long time to gain trust. There is surveillance, but the human kind is hard to get because it's a very paranoid group.

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

This behaviour is very much reminiscent of that of thought police forces in countries like Russia, China, and others where free thought is not allowed.

Much easier to dish out critique to what is going on in HK by CCP ... ???? 

 

'Restoring law and order' .... ???? ... all a matter of your perspective .... 

 

Ah .. the world is a wonderful place.

44 minutes ago, stevenl said:

If unhappy, vote them out. Isn't that what you always say about Trump criticism?

When govnur and major doesn't follow the law and allows lawlessness to take over a city, this is what happens. Do your job govnur should be the chant of protesters.

The exact opposite of a HK protester.

Just now, EVENKEEL said:

When govnur and major doesn't follow the law and allows lawlessness to take over a city, this is what happens. Do your job govnur should be the chant of protesters.

So you have no argument, just repeating the same.

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So you have no argument, just repeating the same.

There is only right and wrong. 

4 minutes ago, uesnyc said:

The exact opposite of a HK protester.

What's that symbol these numnuts have on there armor, kinda looks like a camel head.

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

What's that symbol these numnuts have on there armor, kinda looks like a camel head.

this is the look they were going for.

 

Well done Donald,  Antifa are a domestic terrorist organisation, hellbent on violence and vandalism , round up all these worthless knuckleheads  and put them on a flight to Venezuala to experience the delights of socialism. 

 

Edited July 18, 20205 yr by CFCjeff

3 hours ago, Tug said:

Spot on simple one weather you agree with the protesters or not is not the point it is the very first amendment #1 uno understand?this is another gross violation of our constitution unmarked police in unmarked vans grabbing citizens off the streets this isent Venezuela or Iran 

They are NOT protesters but Anarchists and Insurrectionists. They are NOT protected under the First Amendment due to the fact they are looting, arsonists, and setting up Autonomous Zones, which by itself is covered under the Insurrection Act of 1807. Under this Act, the Marxist Mayors of Portland and Seattle plus the Communist Governors of Oregon and Washington should all be arrested, tried and convicted for allowing this Insurrection to happen. The minimum of 10 years in a Federal Penitentiary will give them time to reflect on their gross ineptitude. New home is Leavenworth Pen. Capture all the Anarchists and charge them the same as this is no longer about the criminal George Floyd, but a challenge to the Laws of the Republic. Perhaps, the U.S.A. should follow up on how Tienemen Square was handled. If Government does not handle this quickly, then Patriots, Militias and Veterans will. 

1 hour ago, uesnyc said:

That's called an arrest. This is what law enforcement officers are paid to do.

It's done in every country in the world that has laws to enforce.

 

Maybe you didn't get it the first time: UNMARKED police officers in UNMARKED vans, taking people off the streets without even telling them, what they are arrested for!

 

It is strange, but doesn't that sound like the exact overreach of a tyrannical government, the 2nd- amendmenters are always babbeling about?

1 minute ago, The Barmbeker said:

Maybe you didn't get it the first time: UNMARKED police officers in UNMARKED vans, taking people off the streets without even telling them, what they are arrested for!

 

It is strange, but doesn't that sound like the exact overreach of a tyrannical government, the 2nd- amendmenters are always babbeling about?

The UK has unmarked police cars with non-uniformed officers too, the law should use any resource they have to protect law abiding citizens...Not the rabble...

1 minute ago, The Barmbeker said:

Maybe you didn't get it the first time: UNMARKED police officers in UNMARKED vans, taking people off the streets without even telling them, what they are arrested for!

 

It is strange, but doesn't that sound like the exact overreach of a tyrannical government, the 2nd- amendmenters are always babbeling about?

Nothing anywhere says cops or vehicles have to be "marked".  You've never seen plain clothes police in unmarked cars before? Usually an arrest entails "taking a person off the street". Every single person knows what they were arrested for, it's in the charging documents. The cops have no obligation to inform random rioters who aren't being charged what their comrades are being charged for, it's none of their business. Your definition of a "tyrannical government" is cops doing their jobs.

I looked up the destruction in Portland. I found one picture of a building with Graffiti on it. Oh the Horror! Damn little Michael Angelo's.

1 hour ago, uesnyc said:

That's called an arrest. This is what law enforcement officers are paid to do.

It's done in every country in the world that has laws to enforce.

 

So far a total of 13 people have been charged with various offences, doesn't sound like a violent mob to me. However, the crux of the critism...

 

"Arresting people without probable cause, Ms Brown's spokesman, Charles Boyle, said on Friday, is "extraordinarily concerning and a violation of their civil liberties and constitutional rights".

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53453077

 

Apologies, can't delete image below.

 

Edited July 18, 20205 yr by simple1

2 minutes ago, bunnydrops said:

I looked up the destruction in Portland. I found one picture of a building with Graffiti on it. Oh the Horror! Damn little Michael Angelo's.

Pretty pathetic how the liberal news media don't broadcast the truth. Thank you for pointing out how fake the news really is.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/protesters-clash-with-police-downtown-and-on-portland-s-east-side/ar-BB16RwLJ

12 minutes ago, SinCityGr8One said:

They are NOT protesters but Anarchists and Insurrectionists. They are NOT protected under the First Amendment due to the fact they are looting, arsonists, and setting up Autonomous Zones, which by itself is covered under the Insurrection Act of 1807. Under this Act, the Marxist Mayors of Portland and Seattle plus the Communist Governors of Oregon and Washington should all be arrested, tried and convicted for allowing this Insurrection to happen. The minimum of 10 years in a Federal Penitentiary will give them time to reflect on their gross ineptitude. New home is Leavenworth Pen. Capture all the Anarchists and charge them the same as this is no longer about the criminal George Floyd, but a challenge to the Laws of the Republic. Perhaps, the U.S.A. should follow up on how Tienemen Square was handled. If Government does not handle this quickly, then Patriots, Militias and Veterans will. 

The vast majority of protesters are peaceful. Federal troops are arresting people indiscriminately. Interesting that you think China should be a role model. We've already seen how the loons who describe themselves as patriots and militias respond to false reports of antifa gatherings. 

1 minute ago, bunnydrops said:

I looked up the destruction in Portland. I found one picture of a building with Graffiti on it. Oh the Horror! Damn little Michael Angelo's.

So you decided to miss the destruction of security cameras, a cop being hit in the head with a hammer, the arson in the lobby of the courthouse, the mortar fireworks being launched at the cops, the steel ball bearings being launched from sling shots, high power lasers being aimed in the cops eyes? Yeah, those graffiti artists.

Just now, The Barmbeker said:

Maybe you didn't get it the first time: UNMARKED police officers in UNMARKED vans, taking people off the streets without even telling them, what they are arrested for!

 

It is strange, but doesn't that sound like the exact overreach of a tyrannical government, the 2nd- amendmenters are always babbeling about?

It is YOU that don't get it! Do you think they are arresting someone walking out of a library or shopping Mall? NO, they are arresting Anarchists, looters, arsonists, agitators etc. You do have a strange misconception regarding a Tyrannical Government which right now is nowhere in sight. And yes, the 2nd Amendment does allow the overthrow of Tyrannical Government. Do you really think that's in place now? If you do, rescind your American Citizenship and move to a peaceful Country. Bye!

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

So far a total of 13 people have been charged with various offences, doesn't sound like a violent mob to me. However, the crux of the critism...

 

"Arresting people without probable cause, Ms Brown's spokesman, Charles Boyle, said on Friday, is "extraordinarily concerning and a violation of their civil liberties and constitutional rights".

 

Apologies, can't delete image below.

There is probable cause for arrest when a crime is committed in an officers presence or officer has knowledge and evidence of a past crime.

2 minutes ago, cantata said:

The vast majority of protesters are peaceful. Federal troops are arresting people indiscriminately. Interesting that you think China should be a role model. We've already seen how the loons who describe themselves as patriots and militias respond to false reports of antifa gatherings. 

Get your head out of the ground. Don't play ostrich with me! After Billions of Dollars in destruction, you have the gall to say these protesters are peaceful? That about the stupidest reply I have read in a long, long time! 

The double standard and hypocrisy here is incredible.  The first issue that comes to mind is the   clear separation of duties udner the US Constitution and the federal government has certainly  violated that principal.  The Governor had the matter in hand. the mayor of Portland says that his police department had calmed the situation and that the crowds were dispersing on their own, that is until one of these  units shot a person in the face.

 

Trump sent border agents and prison guards.  Not the appropriate people to send.

 

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Thank you Mr President. Rather odd the headline photo doesn't show the destruction to the park the protesters caused. The gov and major should face charges of dereliction of duty. 

Ok  a small amount of  municipal property was damaged. We all agree that is  wrong. However, since when has the the federal government responded to the vandalism of municipal property in this manner? Anyone?

Who are you to claim that the legally appointed governor and mayor have been derelict in their duty? If that's the case, then the Republican mayors of some of the crime ridden  US cities should see US federal agents running their cities.

 

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Oh the horror, you mean we can't take over public parks and destroy public property as we please. We have to follow the law.

No one  is arguing in favour of  criminal activity, but the Trump action is an attempt to distract from  the mess the country is in. It is also questionable as to whether it is even allowed.

 

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

So, it's OK for cities to be destroyed in the name of free speech.

No one said it was. However, the US Constitution requires federal laws to be broken and a situation where the local authorities are unable or unwilling to respond. Municipal vandalism is not a federal crime, and the local police  had responded. 

 

10 minutes ago, transam said:

The UK has unmarked police cars with non-uniformed officers too, the law should use any resource they have to protect law abiding citizens...Not the rabble...

The UK    has different rules and regulations. In the USA there is a separation of powers between states and federal governments.

8 minutes ago, SinCityGr8One said:

It is YOU that don't get it! Do you think they are arresting someone walking out of a library or shopping Mall? NO, they are arresting Anarchists, looters, arsonists, agitators etc. You do have a strange misconception regarding a Tyrannical Government which right now is nowhere in sight. And yes, the 2nd Amendment does allow the overthrow of Tyrannical Government. Do you really think that's in place now? If you do, rescind your American Citizenship and move to a peaceful Country. Bye!

But we know that they are arresting peaceful protestors. Or in some cases, not arresting them but hauling them into unmarked vehicles and detaining them without arrest. 

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

So against the express wishes of mayor and governor a new kind of secret service comes in, arresting people, without any accountability. And you don't have an issue with that?

Nope, NONE at all! They should send in much, much more to stop the Insurrection.

2 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Ok  a small amount of  municipal property was damaged. We all agree that is  wrong. However, since when has the the federal government responded to the vandalism of municipal property in this manner? Anyone?

Who are you to claim that the legally appointed governor and mayor have been derelict in their duty? If that's the case, then the Republican mayors of some of the crime ridden  US cities should see US federal agents running their cities.

Not municipal property, federal buildings. The feds aren't running anyone's city, they're protecting federal property and making arrests for violation of federal law. The mayor and governor have no jurisdiction whatsoever on these properties or U.S. code. 

There was more than mere vandalism, there was arson, assault, even pointing lasers at aircraft.

 

9 minutes ago, SinCityGr8One said:

It is YOU that don't get it! Do you think they are arresting someone walking out of a library or shopping Mall? NO, they are arresting Anarchists, looters, arsonists, agitators etc. You do have a strange misconception regarding a Tyrannical Government which right now is nowhere in sight. And yes, the 2nd Amendment does allow the overthrow of Tyrannical Government. Do you really think that's in place now? If you do, rescind your American Citizenship and move to a peaceful Country. Bye!

You have decided they are anarchists etc. Many Americans prefer to put their faith in the US Constitution, the concept of due process and the established legal procedures to respond to these types of incidents. What we are seeing is trump intentionally going against the explicit request of the Governor and Mayor to let the local police to  deal with the issue. Trump violated some of the  things his most  ardent supporters accused  democrats and previous administrations of doing (but never did). Now trump violates their  sacred principles and they   are delighted.  Double standard and hypocrites. He is trying to provoke a civil uprising.

4 minutes ago, SinCityGr8One said:

Nope, NONE at all! They should send in much, much more to stop the Insurrection.

There is no insurrection.  Stop  making false claims.