How (relatively) safe are thai banks, and are there any guarantees for deposits?

[EbhB]

Personally I've seen too much trouble with banks in the West through my years, although I've never lost any huge amounts.

 

Moving here has been a nightmare with some services like Revolut, the West does NOT like it when you're withdrawing too much cash here!

 

These days I am setting up 2x200k in SCB and TMB for marriage, both have very modern apps and setting up the accounts was actually a very good experience.

 

BUT: both accounts are connected to the cards and the app... I guess I could give them back the cards, but at least for TMB there is NO option for setting up an account that is passbook only, it is all connected to the apps.

 

There have been some cases where foreigners accounts have been drained, but I guess/hope that is one-offs, and for TMB I have backup in the family that is army & police and use them. Guess a very polite visit would sort out the really bad shenanigans, if such should happen.

 

What I wonder about is if there are any other guarantees or fallbacks IF something really bad happens? In the West there is too much of that in my opinion, with cards and accounts being blocked when doing the tiniest thing that is not 100% standard...

 

Is there any real recourse if something happens, or would the bank just go "you gave your passcode away"?

[allane]

www.sc.com/th/en/assets/pws/pdf/th-dpa-en.pdf

Limit to be reduced to B 1,000,000/acct. next month.

Some banks are "too big to fail" - the damage to the economy, and to Thailand's reputation in the world mean they must be saved at all costs. Some banks are "too small to fail" - the relatively small cost of saving them would be less than having the words "Thai bank failure" broadcast to the world. That leaves the ones in the middle !

[worgeordie]

It's not so much about the banks, its some of the people that work

inside them,keep a regular check that your money is still there.

regards worgeordie

[Enzian]

My Foreign Currency Deposit account has the "advantage" that things can only be done in person, the magnetic ID card is only good in a branch handed to an employee. So any money gone would have to be an inside job. The downside is that there is not deposit insurance for such accounts; but  the chances of that bank failing are extremely small.

[mark5335]

1 hour ago, allane said:

www.sc.com/th/en/assets/pws/pdf/th-dpa-en.pdf

Limit to be reduced to B 1,000,000/acct. next month.

Some banks are "too big to fail" - the damage to the economy, and to Thailand's reputation in the world mean they must be saved at all costs. Some banks are "too small to fail" - the relatively small cost of saving them would be less than having the words "Thai bank failure" broadcast to the world. That leaves the ones in the middle !

Indeed. The 5 larger Thai banks are considered 'systemically important' and would therefore receive government support in a severe crisis. In any case with regards to 'the ones in the middle' they would most likely also receive government support unless the bank failure was due to for example, a substantial internal fraud. You can look back at the fallout from the 1997 financial crisis and the progress since then, with a relatively strong regulator in the Bank of Thailand and all Thai banks compliant with Basel III international banking accord with regards to systems, controls and capital management. Additionally, even mid-size bank such as Tisco have been able to maintain investment grade ratings by Moodys etc. As mentioned by some others in the thread misappropriation of funds by bank staff in some branches is a risk particularly for accounts with very little activity.

Edited July 22, 2020 by mark5335

[EbhB]

Thanks! I'm more concerned about ordinary theft than theft by printing money - that is a given now anyway!

 

Those 400k as ransom-money for staying here will probably be almost all I keep in banks, the rest is in gold, silver & crypto. Getting up to keeping around 50% in PCMs before all of this feels great now ????

 

Right now running around & getting out what I can via different cards in ATMs, hidden limits popping up all the time - thanfully Transferwise works great!

 

Chose SCB since my wife use them, guess they are among the "too big to fail" - and then TMB as my father in law uses them, I'm counting on the Thai Military Bank never, ever having the chutzpah to fail haha!

 

[Brunolem]

22 hours ago, allane said:

www.sc.com/th/en/assets/pws/pdf/th-dpa-en.pdf

Limit to be reduced to B 1,000,000/acct. next month.

 

Outdated.

 

With the ongoing crisis, it was decided months ago to extend the 5,000,000 baht deposit guarantee until August 2021.

 

 

[Max69xl]

23 hours ago, allane said:

www.sc.com/th/en/assets/pws/pdf/th-dpa-en.pdf

Limit to be reduced to B 1,000,000/acct. next month.

Some banks are "too big to fail" - the damage to the economy, and to Thailand's reputation in the world mean they must be saved at all costs. Some banks are "too small to fail" - the relatively small cost of saving them would be less than having the words "Thai bank failure" broadcast to the world. That leaves the ones in the middle !

They will keep it at 5 million baht because of the Coronavirus situation. That was announced months ago. The risk that a western bank goes belly up is bigger than here. No one has to worry about losing money here because of bankruptcy. 

[EbhB]

54 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

They will keep it at 5 million baht because of the Coronavirus situation. That was announced months ago. The risk that a western bank goes belly up is bigger than here. No one has to worry about losing money here because of bankruptcy. 

Sure, systemic risk and the coming collapse is one of the reason I relocated!

 

But this is not what I'm really concerned about, what I am unsure of is what recourse one could have if someone manages to drain the account... Inside job, hack, whatever - doesn't matter.

 

Never, ever written down or shown anyone a pin code - but I know from my home country that this is what banks will often just claim is the case to cover their tracks/failures.

 

When that can happen in the West and the only way to uncover it is courtcases and media pressure, the same should be MUCH more likely here...

 

Is there anything like "consumer protection" for cases like that?

[fulhamster]

11 minutes ago, EbhB said:

Is there anything like "consumer protection" for cases like that?

Funniest question this year !!!????????

 

 

[stouricks]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:56 AM, Enzian said:

My Foreign Currency Deposit account has the "advantage" that things can only be done in person, the magnetic ID card is only good in a branch handed to an employee. So any money gone would have to be an inside job. The downside is that there is not deposit insurance for such accounts; but  the chances of that bank failing are extremely small.

My Bangkok Bank Foreign Currency Account can be done via online banking, or at the branch, either paying GBP in from UK or converting to THB.

I do not have a 'magnetic ID card' (?) for this account.

[EbhB]

2 hours ago, fulhamster said:

Funniest question this year !!!????????

 

 

Yeah, I know! Always disliked that <deleted> where I come from, BUT seems I need to use that term to get to the correct advice here! ????

 

My "consumer protection" here in general is family in the police & army... But still want to dig deeper in this!

[EbhB]

1 hour ago, stouricks said:

My Bangkok Bank Foreign Currency Account can be done via online banking, or at the branch, either paying GBP in from UK or converting to THB.

I do not have a 'magnetic ID card' (?) for this account.

I've got Bangkok Bank for my company - its actually rather entertaining, but going into the details would probably lead to them suing me!

 

No time to shift this around right now I think, but was planning to check if I could set up an account with Bangkok Bank that essentially would need me with my passport to be present for any withdrawals. Or an appointed lawyer, of course.

[Enzian]

The "magnetic ID card" I mentioned is just the usual plastic card with a black magnetic (I guess) strip on the top back; but it's not designed to be used any ATM machine or the like. On the front it says ELECTRONIC NOT USE, and on the back are included the words "This card is used as evidence of savings/current account, electronic use is prohibited." I've never had any personally initiated activity so far, but I think I would need to show my passport with the card were I to actually do something. It's not Bangkok Bank.

[Thomas J]

EBHB

 

I am a former bank executive from the USA.  The Thai banks are relatively well capitalized.  With that said, Thailand is a country with a recent history of a military coup so when something like that happens everything including homes, personal possession, and bank deposits are in jeopardy of being confiscated. Thai Baht Deposits are protected under the Deposit Protection Agency Act up to a maximum of 5 million baht per one depositor per financial institution until August 10, 2021. ...  With that said, the insurance is only as good as who is guaranteeing it.  So if Thailand was to enter financial distress the Thailand government could falter and the THB become worthless.  Look at Venezuela where their currency is now worthless.  Bottom line, for prudence keep multiple accounts, don't have it all denominated in Baht, have some in one or more foreign accounts.  Just like Stocks and Bonds, they are worth something only so long as the company you have invested in is solvent.  The same is true for money whether that is USD, Euro's or Baht. 

[mark5335]

On 7/22/2020 at 1:01 PM, EbhB said:

Chose SCB since my wife use them, guess they are among the "too big to fail" - and then TMB as my father in law uses them, I'm counting on the Thai Military Bank never, ever having the chutzpah to fail haha!

 

The 5 Thai banks officially categorised by the Bank of Thailand as systemically important are Bangkok Bank, Krung Thai Bank, Bank of Ayudhya (Krungsri), Kasikornbank, and the Siam Commercial Bank. Although I would agree with you about TMB Bank with it having the Thai Gov't as an 11% shareholder behind its largest shareholder, ING Bank of Netherlands.

[BritManToo]

On 7/21/2020 at 6:36 PM, EbhB said:

BUT: both accounts are connected to the cards and the app... I guess I could give them back the cards, but at least for TMB there is NO option for setting up an account that is passbook only, it is all connected to the apps.

I have a TMB " No Fixed" bank account that is passbook only.

Gives a 1.3% interest rate if you use your TMB "All Free" account 5x a month.

You can view the statement in the app, but you can't do anything else

Edited July 23, 2020 by BritManToo

[EbhB]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

EBHB

 

I am a former bank executive from the USA.  The Thai banks are relatively well capitalized.  With that said, Thailand is a country with a recent history of a military coup so when something like that happens everything including homes, personal possession, and bank deposits are in jeopardy of being confiscated. Thai Baht Deposits are protected under the Deposit Protection Agency Act up to a maximum of 5 million baht per one depositor per financial institution until August 10, 2021. ...  With that said, the insurance is only as good as who is guaranteeing it.  So if Thailand was to enter financial distress the Thailand government could falter and the THB become worthless.  Look at Venezuela where their currency is now worthless.  Bottom line, for prudence keep multiple accounts, don't have it all denominated in Baht, have some in one or more foreign accounts.  Just like Stocks and Bonds, they are worth something only so long as the company you have invested in is solvent.  The same is true for money whether that is USD, Euro's or Baht. 

Sure, thats why I've kept everything spread for years - and the past couple of years diversified into physical gold & silver, 5-10% crypto and now 2x200.000 in SCB and TMB here.

 

TMB originated as Thai Military Bank, so if there are bail-ins I won't be surprised if they somehow, mystically won't be part of that! ????

 

Money in a bank is never safe anyway, especially since its fiat...

[EbhB]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I have a TMB " No Fixed" bank account that is passbook only.

Gives a 1.3% interest rate if you use your TMB "All Free" account 5x a month.

You can view the statement in the app, but you can't do anything else

Ah, great - thanks man!

 

I tried to get something like this done, but I guess I need to have my wife come along to explain...

[EbhB]

11 minutes ago, mark5335 said:

The 5 Thai banks officially categorised by the Bank of Thailand as systemically important are Bangkok Bank, Krung Thai Bank, Bank of Ayudhya (Krungsri), Kasikornbank, and the Siam Commercial Bank. Although I would agree with you about TMB Bank with it having the Thai Gov't as an 11% shareholder behind its largest shareholder, ING Bank of Netherlands.

SCB has given me one of the best banking experiences ever, thats pretty amazing coming out of Thailand ????

 

Think I'll set up a third, personal account + SCB for the company if I keep it - great to have this shortlist then!

[OJAS]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:41 AM, worgeordie said:

It's not so much about the banks, its some of the people that work

inside them,keep a regular check that your money is still there.

regards worgeordie

Particularly if you are a retiree using the bank balance method as proof of finances for annual extension of stay applications, given that your account is now under the Immigration spotlight year round rather than just for the 3 months prior to submitting a new application.

[Leaver]

On 7/22/2020 at 10:41 AM, worgeordie said:

It's not so much about the banks, its some of the people that work

inside them,keep a regular check that your money is still there.

regards worgeordie

By the time you go to check on your money, it can be already gone.  

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Leaver

[Leaver]

On 7/24/2020 at 2:06 PM, OJAS said:

Particularly if you are a retiree using the bank balance method as proof of finances for annual extension of stay applications, given that your account is now under the Immigration spotlight year round rather than just for the 3 months prior to submitting a new application.

If a Thai bank/s starts to wobble, getting your annual extension should be the least of your concerns.  

[Leaver]

On 7/23/2020 at 4:44 PM, mark5335 said:

The 5 Thai banks officially categorised by the Bank of Thailand as systemically important are Bangkok Bank, Krung Thai Bank, Bank of Ayudhya (Krungsri), Kasikornbank, and the Siam Commercial Bank. Although I would agree with you about TMB Bank with it having the Thai Gov't as an 11% shareholder behind its largest shareholder, ING Bank of Netherlands.

The question still remains, how exposed are the top 5 banks to possible loan defaults on an unprecedented scale, and any under preforming assets they may have?  

[BritManToo]

6 minutes ago, Leaver said:

The question still remains, how exposed are the top 5 banks to possible loan defaults on an unprecedented scale, and any under preforming assets they may have?  

Another news report suggests ALL Thai banks are making plans for 40% of ALL loans not being repaid.

I'd say they're all wobbly.

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by BritManToo

[Leaver]

32 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Another news report suggests ALL Thai banks are making plans for 40% of ALL loans not being repaid.

I'd say they're all wobbly.

 

i didn't read that report, but if that's the case, how long before there is a run on the banks here?

[EbhB]

...might speed up my plans on using an agent to get onto another type of extension & then convert that 400k to gold! 

 

Thanks for the info...

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, EbhB said:

...might speed up my plans on using an agent to get onto another type of extension & then convert that 400k to gold! 

 

Thanks for the info...

The agent will get you the same extension, just without the need for the 400k baht.  ????

[OJAS]

On 7/25/2020 at 9:25 PM, Leaver said:

If a Thai bank/s starts to wobble, getting your annual extension should be the least of your concerns.  

Yep, let's just chill out and relax by simply going on overstay once our Thai bank has wobbled and our permission to stay has expired, right?

 

[EbhB]

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

Yep, let's just chill out and relax by simply going on overstay once our Thai bank has wobbled and our permission to stay has expired, right?

 

My plan of action now is to trust an agent with around 5% of the 500k, then withdraw most & chill things for a year or two here ????