How much money is required for 30 years retirement?

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, bartender100 said:

Have you thought the fact up that some pretty uneducated young Thai farmers' daughter will have all that money off you by the time your 60yo

 

You won't be the first or the last

I hear that the rule is that if you have your money in the form of a lump sum she will get it. Those guys living in the village for years have defined benefit pensions.

[checkered flag]

13 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

Quite happy to die a slow painful death being a financial burden to who you leave behind??

 

Interesting.....

Most likely HashBrownHarry will need cardiac surgery to clean out his arteries. Too much greasy food isn't good and reduces ones life expectancy. However, at a major government hospital "open heart" surgery is probably 300-400K range. This is well within my plan but I don't know about his.

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

I'm sure the same thing could be said for care in Australia. No one's perfect and sometimes you need to treatment plans. If you are seeing a specialist he/she probably received government sponsored overseas training and is obliged to work at a government hospital twice as long as they spent in residency. Many specialists at private hospital are moonlighting after hours from the government hospitals. I've found the young and brightest MDs at the government hospital, if you learn to navigate the system. If you are experienced with NHS Thailand system should be easy.

I worked in healthcare 40+ years so know what to look for.

The specialist at the private AEK did her training in Germany and spoke English fluently, I knew I was in good hands, whereas the specialist in the public hospital was so young and only interested in texting with his mobile, no eye contact, no English, my wife told him several times, my phlegm was brown and yellow at times, it was constant, I had trouble breathing, yes, yes, it's ok, you are at the end of your flu, keep coughing up the phlegm you will get better soon, yeh right.

 

In Australia my Cardiologist who works at a private hospital which also adjoins the public hospital does a public roster for the hospital in the public hospital, when I admitted myself at midnight on the night of the even, they called him in, he and a crew were on stand-by and were there within 30 minutes, it was also a long weekend.

[mokwit]

15 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Earned enough working 10 years in the City of London by the time I was 45 to give up work.

I wasn't one of the biggest earners, but I was one of the most frugal spenders.

 

Really, what specialty could you enter in the City at age 35 and make enough to retire in 10 years?

[checkered flag]

2 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

The specialist at the private AEK did her training in Germany and spoke English fluently, I knew I was in good hands, whereas the specialist in the public hospital was so young and only interested in texting with his mobile, no eye contact, no English, my wife told him several times, my phlegm was brown and yellow at times, it was constant, I had trouble breathing, yes, yes, it's ok, you are at the end of your flu, keep coughing up the phlegm you will get better soon, yeh right.

 

In Australia my Cardiologist who works at a private hospital which also adjoins the public hospital does a public roster for the hospital in the public hospital, when I admitted myself at midnight on the night of the even, they called him in, he and a crew were on stand-by and were there within 30 minutes, it was also a long weekend.

Sounds like you will be happier when you return to Australia. Thailand isn't for everyone.

[4MyEgo]

Just now, checkered flag said:

Sounds like you will be happier when you return to Australia. Thailand isn't for everyone.

Happier ?

[scammed]

16 hours ago, BritManToo said:

People not being able to adapt their purchasing, to mainly use local goods and local services will be paying a lot more than anyone else.

The problem isn't your income, the problem is you.

that was such wise words it should be printed up on t-shirts

[checkered flag]

19 minutes ago, PFMills said:

Yes, who can really answer this question. When we came here to retire bought a house and a car that’s 13 million gone.

 

Of course it depends how you want to live, if you don’t have quite a good index linked pension you could be in trouble.

 

When we came the exchange rate was 72 to the pound, Now look at it!! 

 

No one knows what it will be in three or four years never mind 30!!

Of course when the exchange rate was 72 to the pound you save a lot for a rainy day. So you should be OK when it goes lower. 

[Honesto]

Your calculations are way out even if you are planning on having sex alone after your retirement.

[Max69xl]

Why do you ask when you've already done the math? 

[murraynz]

22 hours ago, Kadilo said:

Or 85?

Why not ??

Im 69 and expecting to last until about 94...

Family on my fathers side,have done this,many times.

Im a non smoker,light drinker,have excellent health.

Biggest threat...dementia.

[murraynz]

22 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Don't forget the inflation. For 30 years that's a lot.

 

And will you have that health insurance still when you are 80? For the same price?

I think the key to saving for a long retirement,is having passive income and at least one,good investment property.

This should help to take care of inflation..

I cant think of much worse than..being healthy at 70 or 80,but not having enough funds to have a decent life..especialy in thailand,where its easily possible to have fun with much younger women.

[newnative]

22 hours ago, Grumpy one said:

What makes you think you will reach 80?  

   What makes you think he won't reach 80?  Better to plan thinking you will live until at least 90 so you don't run out of money.  My father lived till 95 and my mother until 101.  Luckily, my dad was a good planner and made sure they had plenty of money that didn't run out.  I imagine he never expected my mom to live until 101 but she did--and had money to be well-cared for.  

[Surelynot]

The only way to 'survive' is an index linked income, which is supported by a stable (or at least not damaged by) exchange rates. DO NOT try to live off capital. We live a very comfortable life in a nice, up-market condo, central Bangkok with an income of 100,000 baht per month......we eat in or on the street rather than restaurants and try to limit visits to bars that demand lady drinks.

[pennine]

21 hours ago, myprivate said:

Been looking into this a lot myself lately. Assuming you have 13.6M baht as implied in your first post, then you could put this into a Multi-Asset Income Fund like the one I copied below (actually better to split it into several funds to share the risk). It is currently paying 4.3% income which is about average for this type of lower risk multi asset fund.

So if you put your 13.6M into it you'll get 584,800 per year or 48,733 a month, and you won't have to touch the principle amount except for emergencies like healthcare costs.

https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results/f/fidelity-multi-asset-income-income-inclusive

Don't you have to be a UK resident to use these funds?

[JackThompson]

You got it about right with your initial post.   First, take 1 million Baht* and forget it - as that will be "just for immigration."  It is not an "emergency fund," because if you spend it in an emergency, you lose the ability to get your next extension.  The only way that money ever becomes "yours" again, is if you  leave Thailand with it.

 

Another thing I would add: Work in Thailand legally for a year, so you get into the Social-Security/Health system.  Then, you can pay 750 Baht/mo premium to keep the health-insurance for life.  It doesn't cover everything, but you can get policies that cover the extras for much less than "full coverage."   This step takes attempting to predict the cost of health-insurance (which you Will Need as you get older) out of your list of unknowns. 

 

For most other expenses, if things go south, you can trim your standard-of-living to match - eat out less or different places, cheaper housing, etc.  Those may not be happy compromises, but don't leave you broke at 75 and booted out of Thailand.

 

*(is 800K now - plan for an increase.  Maybe 1.5 M is better.)

Edited July 23, 2020 by JackThompson

[Donga]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Each to their own, I suppose if I wasn't misdiagnosed with the flu as opposed to a severe chest infection, I wouldn't know the difference, but let's just say, that was my eye opening event to get private cover for emergencies and elective surgery, as for any visits (out-patient) to a private, I would pay for that.

 

As far as Australia being a fine place, you are right in saying that, however if I tried retiring there at 55 it wouldn't be possible as you need a roof over your head, even if you were mortgage free as I was, that said the cost of living there is on par to here, even if you have a roof over your head, so 60,000 baht a month to survive here, would be the same to survive there, however where would the funds come from if I retired at 55 there ?

 

Selling the house freed me up, i.e. I haven't had the need to work for 5 years, I invested my money, earn what I need to survive here, plus, depending on what my month's investments paid out, it's also tax free, have a house 4 times the size of the house I had back there for 1/10th the price. I am also not cramped up with neighbours looking into my windows, just greenery everywhere I look.

 

Thailand has it's warts, but so does Australia, if I had the choice to live here or n Australia, the latter wins hands down, but I chose not to work and enjoy my later years as opposed to reaching 67 and maybe not making long after I retired, i.e. life was meant for living, not working, and I believe I worked 40 years long enough to retire at 55 and enjoy my later years.

 

Kinda agree and don't think there's been enough discussion on living off the investment pool: 

1. To the original poster - You don't save up a lot of money i.e. Stash and then divide by number of years to calculate an annual budget. Better to spend a bit of time deciding how to make the stash safely generate at least 5% per annum. If you've got say $A800,000 or $US550,000 so $A40,000 per year is 800,000 baht p.a. That's more than enough to look after food (eat out most nights but sensibly), some booze (less as get older and exercise more), golf, car, partner, housing costs - 2 bedroom, double story townhouse with lovely gardens, pool and a bunch of close neighbours only costs 2 mill baht capital and 80,000 baht p.a. for levies etc. And a bit of internal travel, visit the partner's village a few times a year.
2. At age 65, five years post retirement and 1 year after separation, I started by spending a bit of time dating around the country then decided to find out where I want to live. So initially was 2/3rds Sydney, 1/3rd in Thailand. Decided on Hua Hin, found my lovely lady and been 50/50 last twelve months. I will increase my time in Thailand going forward as much prefer the lifestyle with my partner, climate and far less righteous almost neurotic behaviours in the West it seems but certainly in Sydney. Feel more relaxed in Thailand, find the landscape and culture more exciting compared to Australia. Still have a place in Sydney and will return a couple of times a year to catch up up sons, siblings and old mates. Partner and I will travel around Australia when she stops working in a few years, but probably not live much in Sydney.
3. Have private insurance in Australia and they let me suspend a couple of times per year while in Thailand, where I'm covered for emergency through MasterCard travel insurance. The few times I've needed a doctor in Hua Hin, have either seen local GP or Bangkok hospital - found the service quick, effective and inexpensive.

You live can well in Thailand on less than in Australia especially for food (exclude Aussie steak and fancy restaurants), booze, housing and anything that involves Thai labour. Shopping at 7 Eleven for essentials or in a mall will be much the same price or sometimes more expensive (coffee, decent cereals, even toothpaste). Cars are much the same, but don't need a big one for the traffic conditions and petrol is cheaper, more so with a smaller car. Bicycle for getting around the neighbourhood improves your health if you don't get hit, suppose that risk depends on where you end up living. 

Pity this government is not terribly farang retirement friendly, but fortunately the ladies and society in general are.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Donga

[pineapple01]

1 hour ago, mokwit said:

Really, what specialty could you enter in the City at age 35 and make enough to retire in 10 years?

Bull<deleted>ing.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

It's not about sitting with normal Thai people or using Bangkok hospital, it's: 

 

1) About affordability

2) Wanting to be treated by professionals that have had been educated and or taught from overseas professionals

Concerning those "professionals", I was not diagnosed with gout because the Dr I saw in London and the one I saw in NZ couldn't be bothered to do their job properly. I suffered for years till a Dr in a Thai public hospital diagnosed it in about 2 minutes from my symptoms.

Good and bad Drs are pretty universal and just paying more does not mean one gets a good one.

I worked in a top London surgical hospital for 10 years and there were some consultants I'd never have let near me if I needed surgery.

[thaibeachlovers]

33 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Another thing I would add: Work in Thailand legally for a year, so you get into the Social-Security/Health system.  Then, you can pay 750 Baht/mo premium to keep the health-insurance for life.  It doesn't cover everything, but you can get policies that cover the extras for much less than "full coverage."   This step takes attempting to predict the cost of health-insurance (which you Will Need as you get older) out of your list of unknowns. 

Seriously? You say that as if it were easy to do, which it's not. It's damn hard to do so actually. i couldn't even teach because I didn't have a degree. Never mind it could have been a degree in basket weaving.

You are of course aware there is a list of jobs out of bounds for farangs.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

so 60,000 baht a month to survive here,

What's with you guys and your 60,000 a month <deleted> claims?

As long as one has the funds for health insurance and to renew the visa extension, one needs no where near that amount.

I stayed in an excellent hotel for 15,000 a month and food was about 5,000. One can live in a less nice place for less of course.

Entertainment is additional of course, but unless wanting rentals every night it doesn't add up to much.

 

To spend that sort of money I'd have been eating at the Dukes and renting every night.

[newnative]

22 hours ago, toxictotoro said:

In BKK/Phuket.....US$ 80,000-100,000/year minimum if you want to live a comfortable Western-style standard of living in a nice place (if renting) with high quality heath care/insurance, a decent vehicle, eating quality food, maybe a girlfriend/wife to add to the mix etc. etc.

 

Half that and less if you live out in the sticks and "go native" but don't ever skimp on important stuff like medical.

 

     I would have to disagree with this.  My yearly take-home income is about $40,000 US dollars and my partner and I live very well on that.  We own a nice oceanview condo in Pattaya in one of the best condo projects and also a Bangkok getaway condo in a nice project there a short walk to the Phetchaburi MRT, so a very good location.  We both have good health insurance, drive a nice CR-V, dress well, and eat quality food--both at restaurants and at home.  Traveled when we wanted to--when we could travel.  The one thing we don't do is spend tons of money at the bars every night--not our thing.  

[thaibeachlovers]

42 minutes ago, Donga said:

You live can well in Thailand on less than in Australia especially for food

Understatement of the year!

Unless one can get proper meals in Oz for less than the equivalent of 50 baht one can DEFINITELY eat well for less than in Oz. If I paid over 100 baht for dinner I thought I was getting ripped off.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, newnative said:

     I would have to disagree with this.  My yearly take-home income is about $40,000 US dollars and my partner and I live very well on that.  We own a nice oceanview condo in Pattaya in one of the best condo projects and also a Bangkok getaway condo in a nice project there a short walk to the Phetchaburi MRT, so a very good location.  We both have good health insurance, drive a nice CR-V, dress well, and eat quality food--both at restaurants and at home.  Traveled when we wanted to--when we could travel.  The one thing we don't do is spend tons of money at the bars every night--not our thing.  

Be nice if posters used baht. Not all of us are Americans and the topic is about LOS, not the US.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, toxictotoro said:

In BKK/Phuket.....US$ 80,000-100,000/year minimum if you want to live a comfortable Western-style standard of living in a nice place (if renting) with high quality heath care/insurance, a decent vehicle, eating quality food, maybe a girlfriend/wife to add to the mix etc. etc.

 

Half that and less if you live out in the sticks and "go native" but don't ever skimp on important stuff like medical.

 

55555555555555555555

You guys are so comical. Bkk or Phuket - two of the worst places to live in LOS. I don't know why anyone would even want to live in a dirty stinking polluted hole like Bkk or in a ruined <deleted><deleted> like Phuket. If one likes western food and concrete so much just stay home.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, myprivate said:

Been looking into this a lot myself lately. Assuming you have 13.6M baht as implied in your first post, then you could put this into a Multi-Asset Income Fund like the one I copied below (actually better to split it into several funds to share the risk). It is currently paying 4.3% income which is about average for this type of lower risk multi asset fund.

So if you put your 13.6M into it you'll get 584,800 per year or 48,733 a month, and you won't have to touch the principle amount except for emergencies like healthcare costs.

https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discounts,-prices--and--factsheets/search-results/f/fidelity-multi-asset-income-income-inclusive

I bet there were loads of posts like this before 2007 and not many after. How quickly we forget!

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

You got it about right with your initial post.   First, take 1 million Baht* and forget it - as that will be "just for immigration."  It is not an "emergency fund," because if you spend it in an emergency, you lose the ability to get your next extension.  The only way that money ever becomes "yours" again, is if you  leave Thailand with it.

Agree 100%.

[4MyEgo]

 

1 hour ago, Donga said:

Kinda agree and don't think there's been enough discussion on living off the investment pool: 

Agreed, I think anyone looking at retiring anywhere in the world without savings is at risk, as anything can change with governments, e.g. I read on a post here on TVF the other day that some guy said his mate who works for Centrelink said that Centrelink is now looking at stopping expats taking their pension overseas, i.e. if they can prove they are living overseas, this of course was unsubstantiated, and would probably be looked at expats who returned 2 years before the pension age, however I wouldn't put it past them stopping portability some time down the track on anyone regardless if they were living overseas or not, but would stop portability period, and I would assume they would be looking at grandfathering that for current expats, well, I would hope that would be the case as that would devastate a lot of Oz expats living here if there was no grandfathering.

 

1 hour ago, Donga said:

Better to spend a bit of time deciding how to make the stash safely generate at least 5% per annum. If you've got say $A800,000 or $US550,000 so $A40,000 per year is 800,000 baht p.a. That's more than enough to look after food (eat out most nights but sensibly), some booze (less as get older and exercise more), golf, car, partner, housing costs - 2 bedroom, double story townhouse with lovely gardens, pool and a bunch of close neighbours only costs 2 mill baht capital and 80,000 baht p.a. for levies etc. And a bit of internal travel, visit the partner's village a few times a year.

Yep everyone needs capital to invest to earn, otherwise you are left at the mercy of governments and the $ fluctuating, and having no back up plan/s, because without capital, your basically stuck.

 

1 hour ago, Donga said:

So initially was 2/3rds Sydney, 1/3rd in Thailand. Decided on Hua Hin, found my lovely lady and been 50/50 last twelve months. I will increase my time in Thailand going forward as much prefer the lifestyle with my partner, climate and far less righteous almost neurotic behaviours in the West it seems but certainly in Sydney.

Just watch out for those new laws that came in for capital gains tax, I think on the 1st July 2019

 

1 hour ago, Donga said:

Feel more relaxed in Thailand, find the landscape and culture more exciting compared to Australia. Still have a place in Sydney and will return a couple of times a year to catch up up sons, siblings and old mates. Partner and I will travel around Australia when she stops working in a few years, but probably not live much in Sydney.

As mentioned above, look out for that new capital gains tax law that came into effect 1 July 2019 on your principal place of residence, as it can be a real spoiler for expats, i.e. if you have changed your residency status or go over the 183 day rule and only being in the one country.

[4MyEgo]

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Concerning those "professionals", I was not diagnosed with gout because the Dr I saw in London and the one I saw in NZ couldn't be bothered to do their job properly. I suffered for years till a Dr in a Thai public hospital diagnosed it in about 2 minutes from my symptoms.

Good and bad Drs are pretty universal and just paying more does not mean one gets a good one.

I worked in a top London surgical hospital for 10 years and there were some consultants I'd never have let near me if I needed surgery.

Naturally only going off of my own experiences, I have the utmost praise for Aussie doctors, and so far the Thai Dr & Specialist that treated me here, as I said, based on my own experiences and I would imagine with private health care cover I choose where I want to go as opposed to allowing someone in a public hospital to treat me, each to their own, naturally, word of mouth helps when researching doctors/specialists, here on TVF it's Sheryl.

[newnative]

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Be nice if posters used baht. Not all of us are Americans and the topic is about LOS, not the US.

  Sorry this was such a challenge for you to convert dollars to baht.  Other than that, my entire post was about LOS.