Thai or English programme for a 12 year old?

Keyser Soze666 · July 22, 2020

Just looking for any thought/advice on the situation with my 12 year old daughter.

She is starting 1st year primary next year (private school) and not sure what is best, Thai or English programme now she is getting older. In all her primary years it has been English programme, although the school she has been at only have an English programme anyway.

The dilemna is her English and Thai is very good both verbally and written, although she seems to understand written English more than written Thai. The reality is unless she makes her own way in later life I won't be taking her to live in the UK, so seeing as her forseeable future is here would it therefore be better that she improves her Thai language skills rather than English? I also believe in the Thai language programme around 25% is in English, so there will be some English classes for her too.

The other thing too is the school we have in mind for her the Thai programme is a lot cheaper than the English one. I realise that you should never pinch and scrape when it comes to your child's education, but in the current climate it would be useful to save the money, but it will not be a deal breaker, I will pay for English if that really is the way to go. And yes, I will ask my daughter too but looking for some 'adult' advice first.

Appreciate any thoughts.

KS666

Edited July 22, 2020 by Keyser Soze666

DavisH · July 22, 2020

If she prefers to study in Thai in university, then the Thai program will give her better preparation for university entrance exams. If she prefers to study in an International program, then and EP would give better preparation for that. Of course, I know students from Thai schools that go on to Interntional programs, and EP students that go on to study in Thai university programs. If money is an issue, then the Thai programs are a better option. Students from either programs can go on to study overseas later also. Many of my EP graduates have done that.

Keyser Soze666 · July 23, 2020

10 hours ago, DavisH said:

If she prefers to study in Thai in university, then the Thai program will give her better preparation for university entrance exams. If she prefers to study in an International program, then and EP would give better preparation for that. Of course, I know students from Thai schools that go on to Interntional programs, and EP students that go on to study in Thai university programs. If money is an issue, then the Thai programs are a better option. Students from either programs can go on to study overseas later also. Many of my EP graduates have done that.

Appreciate the response, Davis.

XGM · July 23, 2020

On 7/22/2020 at 2:49 AM, Keyser Soze666 said:

The dilemna is her English and Thai is very good both verbally and written, although she seems to understand written English more than written Thai. The reality is unless she makes her own way in later life I won't be taking her to live in the UK, so seeing as her forseeable future is here would it therefore be better that she improves her Thai language skills rather than English? I also believe in the Thai language programme around 25% is in English, so there will be some English classes for her too.

The other thing too is the school we have in mind for her the Thai programme is a lot cheaper than the English one. I realise that you should never pinch and scrape when it comes to your child's education, but in the current climate it would be useful to save the money, but it will not be a deal breaker, I will pay for English if that really is the way to go. And yes, I will ask my daughter too but looking for some 'adult' advice first.

If as you mentioned she is more likely to live here, Thai skills will be more important.

You might want to consider using the amount saved due to lower costs for ongoing English private lessons to make sure she stays on a reasonable level there too.

BritManToo · July 23, 2020

On 7/22/2020 at 1:49 PM, Keyser Soze666 said:

The dilemna is her English and Thai is very good both verbally and written, although she seems to understand written English more than written Thai. The reality is unless she makes her own way in later life I won't be taking her to live in the UK, so seeing as her forseeable future is here would it therefore be better that she improves her Thai language skills rather than English? I also believe in the Thai language programme around 25% is in English, so there will be some English classes for her too.

Stick her in Thai government school.

My daughter, age 22, speaks perfect English and Thai, and is in her final year at university.

My son, age 8, is completely comfortable in English or Thai as well.

We only speak English in the home.

No need to waste money on private school.

Scott · July 23, 2020

A post containing a racial slur has been removed.

Keyser Soze666 · July 23, 2020

1 hour ago, XGM said:

You might want to consider using the amount saved due to lower costs for ongoing English private lessons to make sure she stays on a reasonable level there too.

I take your point, but to be honest I have money going out on a lot of things, I really won't 'notice' the savings really, if that makes sense. It's more of a mental thing really that school fees are not too high. As I said in my OP the 'savings' will just be a bonus, it's not a deal breaker.

RBOP · July 27, 2020

English programme. Why would any father want to limit ones own child's opportunities?

chilly07 · July 27, 2020

English programme any time. Plenty of English programme Universities in Thailand and it will give her a more complete idea of today's world and a better chance of intellectual development than the rote learning of Thai programmes. Also IT so essential to education and future job prospects is mostly always in English. She may not want to be restricted to Thailand and Thai is not an international language.

Bob12345 · July 27, 2020

1 hour ago, chilly07 said:

English programme any time. Plenty of English programme Universities in Thailand and it will give her a more complete idea of today's world and a better chance of intellectual development than the rote learning of Thai programmes. Also IT so essential to education and future job prospects is mostly always in English. She may not want to be restricted to Thailand and Thai is not an international language.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only difference between the Thai and english program is the language, right?

They learn the exact same things and get the same amount of homework, only in Thai program most classes (except maybe IT and english language) will be taught in Thai language while in the english program it will all be in English (except for thai language class).

You might be referring to an "International program" which is in english and follows an international curriculum (cambridge, oxford, whatever). There is considerable less homework there, more focus on the thinking process, less testing, much less rote learning, and prices several times that of the english and thai program.

Bob12345 · July 27, 2020

On 7/23/2020 at 7:57 PM, BritManToo said:

Stick her in Thai government school.

My daughter, age 22, speaks perfect English and Thai, and is in her final year at university.

My son, age 8, is completely comfortable in English or Thai as well.

Hope your kids end top of their classes which will give them huge opportunities in later life within thailand (and to a limited scale in the world), cause otherwise they might be stuck in thailand for the rest of their lives "with possible considerable unforeseen costs".

(my wife got into special classes from around the age of your son, so if there are no clear opportunities for him yet you can still make adjustments now instead of waiting and hoping for the best)

Edited July 27, 2020 by Bob12345

BritManToo · July 27, 2020

26 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

Hope your kids end top of their classes which will give them huge opportunities in later life within thailand (and to a limited scale in the world), cause otherwise they might be stuck in thailand for the rest of their lives "with possible considerable unforeseen costs".

(my wife got into special classes from around the age of your son, so if there are no clear opportunities for him yet you can still make adjustments now instead of waiting and hoping for the best)

I have no idea what you are talking about, which means one of two things.

1. You're lapsing into dementia, or

2. I'm lapsing into dementia.

Can't see my kids living outside Thailand.

At the current state of play, hardly anyone will ever work or travel outside their home country again.

PS.

I see your 'sad', and will raise you two more.

Edited July 27, 2020 by BritManToo

CorpusChristie · July 27, 2020

On 7/23/2020 at 7:57 PM, BritManToo said:

Stick her in Thai government school.

My daughter, age 22, speaks perfect English and Thai, and is in her final year at university.

My son, age 8, is completely comfortable in English or Thai as well.

We only speak English in the home.

No need to waste money on private school.

As Shes only been your Daughter for the last five years and hes only been your Son for the last five years, where did they learn to speak English ?

Bob12345 · July 27, 2020

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I have no idea what you are talking about, which means one of two things.

1. You're lapsing into dementia, or

2. I'm lapsing into dementia.

Can't see my kids living outside Thailand.

At the current state of play, hardly anyone will ever work or travel outside their home country again.

PS.

I see your 'sad', and will raise you two more.

There are more options than "dementia", so let me explain further. I am talking about what a thai program does with the mentality of children: a focus on rote learning instead of thinking on their feet and understanding things, a lot of time spent (wasted) on thai indoctrination (12 values, singing the national anthem, learning history where thailand always wins), and years of being perfectly assimiliated into thai society (where face is everything, truth doesnt matter, etc).

Besides that i think your worldview is too negative, but that cannot be the reason for you to have picked thai government school given the age of your daughter (covid19 wasnt there back then).

I know quite some people who have studied in thailand, but they were all in special programs (top of their class) and are doing very well for themselves now. I also know quite some thai people who have had international educations and do very well in thailand (and abroad) now, but i barely know people who have had a thai education, do well now, and credit their education for their success.

p.s. My sad emotion comes from your recommendation to other people to send their kids to government school. There is not a metric in thailand or the world that puts the quality of thai government school above the other available options. And i think we can all agree that we would like the best for our children (given we can afford it). So maybe you care to explain further why better education is a "waste".

Edited July 27, 2020 by Bob12345

BritManToo · July 27, 2020

9 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

There are more options than "dementia", so let me explain further. I am talking about what a thai program does with the mentality of children: a focus on rote learning instead of thinking on their feet and understanding things, a lot of time spent (wasted) on thai indoctrination (12 values, singing the national anthem, learning history where thailand always wins), and years of being perfectly assimiliated into thai society (where face is everything, truth doesnt matter, etc).

I'm not sure that's important, most people who 'think for themselves' are unhappy and dissatisfied with their lives.

I'd prefer my kids to be happy and fit in with Thai society.

As that's where they will be living.

If the western education, work ethic and culture are so great why are you here?

Edited July 27, 2020 by BritManToo

AlfHuy · July 27, 2020

An International School for sure. My daughter goes to an International school with follows the English Curriculum and IB programme. Plenty of Thai students there (not cheap).

Bob12345 · July 27, 2020

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not sure that's important, most people who 'think for themselves' are unhappy and dissatisfied with their lives.

I'd prefer my kids to be happy and fit in with Thai society.

As that's where they will be living.

You got another sad emoticon with this comment from me, and you can give me back as many as you like but you never care to explain why so there is little i can do with your childish "tit for tat" strategy. Sorry.

Most people who think for themselves are unhappy and dissatisfied?

Please show me the research papers on that. I thought the happiest societies were in western europe: scandinavian countries and the netherlands. Those countries are certainly not known for producing people who cannot think for themselves.

You can prefer your kids happy and to fit in, but their hapiness is not something that comes from thai government school. It will be heavily influenced by their upbringing, their mentality, and the opportunities they get in their life. That last one you are purposefully limiting because you have decided they will be living in thailand the rest of their lives. Newsflash: you have little say about that after they turn 18.

If you said that you didnt have the money for a better education for them, i could respect that. But purposefully limiting their opportunities because you think a better education is a waste of money does not get much credit from me. Not that you care of course, I just let it be known for other readers who are still undecided where to send their kids to. Hopefully they make a better decision with their kids future as top priority, not their own preference to keep their kids in thailand no matter what they want themselves.

Edit: you added a question:

If the western education, work ethic and culture are so great why are you here?

Because my wife works here and we can afford an international education for our kids here which I value above a (free) education in my home country. General quality will be about equal (both offer a western education) but here class size is much smaller (max 15 kids with 2 teachers per class) which i think is of great value for them. And i hope they will consider going abroad for university, or maybe even earlier, so they get all the opportunities in the world. Besides, we live on a tropical island here where I can take them snorkling, diving, and let them have other perks that would be hard to afford to give them in my home country. All together i think thailand has a lot to offer for kids, but i will certainly understand if they decide to persue a job somewhere else in the world at a later age.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Bob12345

BritManToo · July 27, 2020

Just now, Bob12345 said:

Most people who think for themselves are unhappy and dissatisfied?

Please show me the research papers on that. I thought the happiest societies were in western europe: scandinavian countries and the netherlands. Those countries are certainly not known for producing people who cannot think for themselves.

Highest suicide rates in the world.

Not to mention all the refugees destroying their culture.

Oh yes, they must be really happy.

BritManToo · July 27, 2020

Just now, Bob12345 said:

You can prefer your kids happy and to fit in, but their hapiness is not something that comes from thai government school. It will be heavily influenced by their upbringing, their mentality, and the opportunities they get in their life. That last one you are purposefully limiting because you have decided they will be living in thailand the rest of their lives. Newsflash: you have little say about that after they turn 18.

My daughter is already 22, she has no right to a British passport.

I'll be dead well before my 8 year old makes 18, I suspect he will never leave Asia.

Can't say any of my 4 kids back in the UK are happy, it's a struggle to earn enough for food and shelter these days.

johnray · July 27, 2020

Since you already teach her English at home a Thai school would make more sense.

GarryP · July 27, 2020

29 minutes ago, AlfHuy said:

An International School for sure. My daughter goes to an International school with follows the English Curriculum and IB programme. Plenty of Thai students there (not cheap).

If I ever have children again, I would love to send them to and International School. But that is never going to happen. I just could not afford the cost. Also, I would be retiring up country where I do not have a choice of schools, let alone an English program.

OneMoreFarang · July 27, 2020

On 7/22/2020 at 1:49 PM, Keyser Soze666 said:

The other thing too is the school we have in mind for her the Thai programme is a lot cheaper than the English one.

How is the overall quality of that school?

I know parents who tried Thai schools only to discover that the quality was so bad that they changed their mind very quickly...

DavisH · July 27, 2020

1 hour ago, Bob12345 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only difference between the Thai and english program is the language, right?

They learn the exact same things and get the same amount of homework, only in Thai program most classes (except maybe IT and english language) will be taught in Thai language while in the english program it will all be in English (except for thai language class).

You might be referring to an "International program" which is in english and follows an international curriculum (cambridge, oxford, whatever). There is considerable less homework there, more focus on the thinking process, less testing, much less rote learning, and prices several times that of the english and thai program.

A few years back, one of my graduating EP students commented on her observations of her fellow classmates in an international engineering program - the Thai students were good in the maths component but struggled with the english; students from international schools were good in english but were a bit nehind in the mathsl; The EP students were somewhere in the middle. This is bearing in mine that many of their professors are Thai, but teach in English. Many also studied overseas. So it's possible some still have a Thai mindset. I'm a maths teacher, and have been though the Thai curriculum. It focuses on calculations as they are not allowed calculators in their exams - mine are, so I try to combine elements of both.

Keyser Soze666 · July 27, 2020

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How is the overall quality of that school?

I know parents who tried Thai schools only to discover that the quality was so bad that they changed their mind very quickly...

It's not a Thai school. It's a private school with a choice of EP or TP (both in the Thai curriculum)

My basic point is she can speak good English now, but if very likely she will be in Thailand for some time to come, maybe forever, so would it not make more sense for her to advance her Thai language skills?

Keyser Soze666 · July 27, 2020

1 hour ago, johnray said:

Since you already teach her English at home a Thai school would make more sense.

This is what I'm thinking. Her English is already pretty much fluent.

Keyser Soze666 · July 27, 2020

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

There are more options than "dementia", so let me explain further. I am talking about what a thai program does with the mentality of children: a focus on rote learning instead of thinking on their feet and understanding things, a lot of time spent (wasted) on thai indoctrination (12 values, singing the national anthem, learning history where thailand always wins), and years of being perfectly assimiliated into thai society (where face is everything, truth doesnt matter, etc).

To be honest even kids at a Thai private school in an EP still have all that embedded into them?

Enoon · July 27, 2020

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If the western education, work ethic and culture are so great why are you here?

Because that education, work ethic and culture "enabled" it.

Thanks to it life can be very "nice" for even the most ordinary and unremarkable Westerner in Thailand.

It can be very nice for them in all sorts of places.

Where does the ordinary and unremarkable Thai end up?

What world of options is open to them?

Edited July 27, 2020 by Enoon

Bob12345 · July 27, 2020

2 hours ago, DavisH said:

A few years back, one of my graduating EP students commented on her observations of her fellow classmates in an international engineering program - the Thai students were good in the maths component but struggled with the english; students from international schools were good in english but were a bit nehind in the mathsl; The EP students were somewhere in the middle. This is bearing in mine that many of their professors are Thai, but teach in English. Many also studied overseas. So it's possible some still have a Thai mindset. I'm a maths teacher, and have been though the Thai curriculum. It focuses on calculations as they are not allowed calculators in their exams - mine are, so I try to combine elements of both.

Good comment, which reminds me of something i was told when picking a job that also applies here: you should not pick a job or job title, you should pick a boss. Simply meaning that a good boss will give you opportunities to grow and get raises and better jobs in the future, while a bad boss might hold you back and break your spirit.

The same applies ot school: i rather send my kids to a <deleted>ty school with the most motivated and skilled teachers than to the most expensive international program with <deleted>ty teachers who don't care. Unfortunately many good teachers can pick their schools to work at, and they prefer higher-paid jobs at better schools. Thats not always the case, but in general not many excellent teachers will be in government school.

So without knowing anything about the schools OP can pick from, go talk to the headmaster at each and try to find out what kind of goals they set for the kids, how long teachers stay in the job, where the teachers were trained, etc. You said its the same school with the thai and english program, so do both programs make use of the same teachers also? Are there any noticable differences between the teachers of both programs? If its very similar I could imagine you do the thai program as she can do english at home and it can save you a ton of money.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Bob12345

khunPer · July 27, 2020

It might depend a lot of the school.

My daughter, now 15, attended English Program both in kindergarten, and in primary 1 to primary 6. After P6 some students continued in Thai schools' M1 – like the level of your 12-year old daughter is heading for – whilst others changed to international line (including my daughter). I believe that most of the M1 student were send to private schools, but the choice could also be dependent of economy.

The English level in a government school might vary a lot. Those of our Thai friends having children in government schools in M-level, the kids hardly speaks any English. Some that has finished M3 don't even understand simple written expressions without using Google translate to Thai. My daughter says that her friens in M1 and up, don't learn much English.

If I was to choose, I would select EP whenever I could afford it – if possible with Chinese as third language (my daughter had that) – as English might be even more important second language in the future, also when studying at a Thai university. Furthermore, good skills in English language opens a lot of both job possibilities later, or further studying abroad...????

Scott · July 27, 2020

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Highest suicide rates in the world.

Not to mention all the refugees destroying their culture.

Oh yes, they must be really happy.

The highest suicide rates are not in Scandinavia. Lithuania has the highest rate in the world, followed by South Korea.

Suicide is off-topic, but please try to be correct in posting information:

https://www.businessinsider.com/world-suicide-rate-map-2014-4