UK trade deal unlikely for now: Britain, EU clash over post-Brexit ties

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Why the EU would be so fixed for ... F I S H ? ? As I wrote: not an issue over here, but only and only by the British.

And the Germans... sell their products all over the world.  A few years ago, 1 GBP was € 1,35, now € 1,10. British cannot afford a decent German car anymore.

And when the City is out for financial transactions in Europe, the "light will go out" in London, and with that in England.

Apparently it's also a major issue for Barnier:

 

“By its current refusal to commit to conditions of open and fair competition and to a balanced agreement on fisheries, the UK makes a trade agreement - at this point - unlikely,” Barnier told a news conference.

 

If it's not an issue, why would he not concede on his fish fixation, then concentrate on the big deals?

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, RayC said:

It's incredible that Brexit supporters still have the gall to continually claim Churchill as 'one of their own'. Churchill was in favour of the UK joining the forerunner of the EU in 1956. He foresaw a 'United States of Europe'. He was very much a European. Perhaps, he may have been against a politically integrated Europe (who knows), but history shows that he almost certainly wouldn't have supported the stance of the current UK government.

He was very much a European. Perhaps, he may have been against a politically integrated Europe (who knows)

 

We are still Europeans even though we have left the EU, we cannot help our geographical position on this planet, oh if only we could eh. "Perhaps he may been againgst a politically integrated Europe" well guess what so are most of the voters that voted for leaving the EU that is turning from trading partners to a federal state of dictatorship.

We have left and it is about time some remainers realised this, why is it so difficult for them to understand what democracy means.

[Logosone]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

You always make out like it is only the UK economy that is 'ailing' but never mention that the majority of the EU countries are doing much worse. 

Think about it, the UK's main pillar of the economy is services, specifically financial services. 

 

When a no-deal Brexit happens what do you think will be the EU attitude to passporting and many other issues that greatly affect UK service providers? 

 

The UK was already among the most indebted nations in the world, with Rishi's spending spree the debt burden is alarming even UK bankers.

 

Add to this fact that many British small businesses are already badly affected by Covdi19 but now in addition have to deal with the extra cost of doing business with Europe, the odds are they won't have the margin to pay for the extra costs. 

 

The UK income per head, by UK projections, is set to shrink by over 8 percent.

 

It's a dire prospect, the UK economy.

[RayC]

4 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Well, you quoted the reason, because even if the UK has trade deals with other countries in place (I mean the non-EU trade deals) that in itself will not decrease or increase business. However whether the UK has a deal or no deal with the EU will be a major factor on how much business outside EU countries will do with the UK. 

 

South Korea already made clear if there is a no deal Brexit that will reduce the business with the UK, simply because many Korean companies manufacture in Europe. The same applies to other countries.

 

So for the UK, economically speaking, by far the largest issue is if it can get a deal with the EU or not. Not third country trade agreements, which by themselves will not increase business for UK companies.

 

You're right of course that everyone loses because of Brexit. The UK of course will lose the most.

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with most of what you say, and most definitely your conclusion.

[Rookiescot]

40 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

FISH ? ?  Maybe in the British press, but for sure, NOT in the Dutch, Belgium, German and French ( except maybe locally like in Pas de Calais, Normandy and Bretagne...). Fishing for the EU is as important as cherries from Kent... ( do they grow cherries there ?) 

10% WTO import duty on British made cars or components... THAT's an issue. And the entire meat industry ( agricultural levies, not in the attached list).  Enjoy also the rest.... Means with these WTO-duties, many EU produced products might then be in advantage, of even purchased from elsewhere in the world.  Bye-bye "Made in Britain" ( England) 

 

But. when you bring the GBP down from now 1,0959 to € 0,90 ( not the first time the British currency made such a dive) also these problems are solved. Except of course the British international purchasing power, but.. THAT's where the British overwhelmingly ( 51,2%) and repeatingly voted for...

 

And for those in Thailand, who by big extend voted for Brexit: remind your THB 65K/month...

 

They entire access to fish is a bit of a red herring.

Many UK skippers sold their licence to foreign owned boats. I imagine those boats will still be able to access UK waters no matter what happens with trade deals or whatever.

But its become a bone of contention for Brexiteers.

Englands territorial waters are actually very small. Most of the UK's fishing waters are Scottish. 

[puipuitom]

2 minutes ago, Logosone said:

You're right of course that everyone loses because of Brexit. The UK of course will lose the most.

I think the EU will not loose so much: thanks to the higher price of UK made products thanks to WTO-import duty into the EU, many have some extra margin to try other alternatives. Make inside the EU of buy from elsewhere.

 

https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/europe-and-international-trade/key-exports-data/

[Logosone]

2 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

I think the EU will not loose so much: thanks to the higher price of UK made products thanks to WTO-import duty into the EU, many have some extra margin to try other alternatives. Make inside the EU of buy from elsewhere.

 

https://www.smmt.co.uk/industry-topics/europe-and-international-trade/key-exports-data/

That's a very good point, the income that will come into the EU from tariffs placed on UK products is going to be larger than the UK's membership fees.

 

I don't think the higher price for German cars in the UK will benefit the German car industry, but it will not be a major problem I suspect. Those who buy German cars already pay premium prices.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

He was very much a European. Perhaps, he may have been against a politically integrated Europe (who knows)

 

We are still Europeans even though we have left the EU, we cannot help our geographical position on this planet, oh if only we could eh. "Perhaps he may been againgst a politically integrated Europe" well guess what so are most of the voters that voted for leaving the EU that is turning from trading partners to a federal state of dictatorship.

We have left and it is about time some remainers realised this, why is it so difficult for them to understand what democracy means.

We know we are leaving. You Brexiteers never stop repeating that.

Ah and another tick in the Brexit bingo BS card. 

Democracy. The kind of Democracy that says you can not change your mind and we dont want to know if you agree with the terms of exit.

The people have spoken. Let them never speak again.

[puipuitom]

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Apparently it's also a major issue for Barnier:

 

“By its current refusal to commit to conditions of open and fair competition and to a balanced agreement on fisheries, the UK makes a trade agreement - at this point - unlikely,” Barnier told a news conference.

 

If it's not an issue, why would he not concede on his fish fixation, then concentrate on the big deals?

Show me some French, German, Dutch, Belgium publications about your fish story, the British are so focussed on... All write, it';s important for the 0,1% in the EU fish industry, but for the rest.... beef, pork, poultry.. are MUCH MORE of interest. And HERE the EU agricultural levies will KILL the British competition into the EU.

Get focussed on the real parts.

[vogie]

21 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

We know we are leaving. You Brexiteers never stop repeating that.

Ah and another tick in the Brexit bingo BS card. 

Democracy. The kind of Democracy that says you can not change your mind and we dont want to know if you agree with the terms of exit.

The people have spoken. Let them never speak again.

The country have voted for Brexit twice now, those that wanted to remain could have voted for the vibrant Change Party (whatever happened to them).

The terms of the exit has nothing to do with you nor anyone else, the question was leave or remain, nothing more nothing less, the rest we left to our government to decide, stop coming out with such rediculous nonsense, I want a vote for this, I want a vote for that. You want to reverse Brexit end of, and that ship has sailed.

Edited July 24, 2020 by vogie

[RayC]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

He was very much a European. Perhaps, he may have been against a politically integrated Europe (who knows)

 

We are still Europeans even though we have left the EU, we cannot help our geographical position on this planet, oh if only we could eh.

I remember that one of Screaming Lord Sutch's (Monster Raving Looney Party) policies was to tow the UK towards the Equator so that the UK was warmer. Reading some of the anti-EU/European comments on here, I imagine that some might think this a serious and sensible proposal.

 

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

Perhaps he may been againgst a politically integrated Europe" well guess what so are most of the voters that voted for leaving the EU that is turning from trading partners to a federal state of dictatorship.

I would have voted 'Remain' (if I have been given the vote), but also have reservations about the push towards federalism. Nevertheless, to talk of a dictatorship is hyperbole of the highest order.

 

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

We have left and it is about time some remainers realised this, why is it so difficult for them to understand what democracy means.

I accept that the UK is - and should leave - however, the terms of which we leave (transition) are still open and it is very much a 'live' subject, so open to debate. In any event, even though the UK will leave the EU, I still have the right to state why I think that it is an error. Freedom of speech: Why is that so difficult for Brexit supporters to understand?

 

Btw: I note that having quoted my post about Churchill, you fail to refute any of my points.

[Loiner]

39 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

Show me some French, German, Dutch, Belgium publications about your fish story, the British are so focussed on... All write, it';s important for the 0,1% in the EU fish industry, but for the rest.... beef, pork, poultry.. are MUCH MORE of interest. And HERE the EU agricultural levies will KILL the British competition into the EU.

Get focussed on the real parts.

I'm not interested in your lack of publications about the 'fish story'. Although I guess Barnier and Macron are French and make quite a lot of story for publication. Maybe there is little reported because their negotiation position is getting them nowhere and they don't want it made too public. There's already too much political turmoil in France.

Why is Barnier not focused on the real parts, if as you say the fish story is not important?

Edited July 24, 2020 by Loiner

[vogie]

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

I remember that one of Screaming Lord Sutch's (Monster Raving Looney Party) policies was to tow the UK towards the Equator so that the UK was warmer. Reading some of the anti-EU/European comments on here, I imagine that some might think this a serious and sensible proposal.

 

I would have voted 'Remain' (if I have been given the vote), but also have reservations about the push towards federalism. Nevertheless, to talk of a dictatorship is hyperbole of the highest order.

 

I accept that the UK is - and should leave - however, the terms of which we leave (transition) are still open and it is very much a 'live' subject, so open to debate. In any event, even though the UK will leave the EU, I still have the right to state why I think that it is an error. Freedom of speech: Why is that so difficult for Brexit supporters to understand?

 

Btw: I note that having quoted my post about Churchill, you fail to refute any of my points.

A man that spent 5 years fighting the Germans and to keep them out of Britain is very unlikely to want to offer our country on a silver platter for free I would have thought.

However in your defense you do come across as little more of a reasonable remainer on here than some. ????

Edited July 24, 2020 by vogie

[nauseus]

38 minutes ago, RayC said:

No he (Churchill) wasn't what? Likely wouldn't have been a Brexit supporter: Agreed. 

 

Wasn't pro-European? Incorrect.

 

What part of my original post was factually incorrect? Churchill spoke in parliament in favour of joining the 'Iron and Steel Federation' (forerunner of EEC/EC/EU). He spoke in Zurich in 1949 of a 'United States of Europe', having previously written about it in the early '30s. All of which suggests that he would been pro-EU.

 

If you have any evidence suggesting Churchill was anti-European or might have been pro-Brexit then please present it.

 

Churchill certainly was not anti-European and was in favour of a European version of the USA but he was not in favour of Britain’s membership of it. He was strong supporter of the British Empire and transition into the British Commonwealth.

[Loiner]

20 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

We know we are leaving. You Brexiteers never stop repeating that.

Ah and another tick in the Brexit bingo BS card. 

Democracy. The kind of Democracy that says you can not change your mind and we dont want to know if you agree with the terms of exit.

The people have spoken. Let them never speak again.

Actually Jock, we have already left. Sorry to repeat myself, but we are no longer members of the EU.

Soon we will be out of the transition period, and fairly unscathed too.

 

If we are playing another bingo card, I've already marked off "some of the Brexiteers want to change their mind" or the scotty favourite "more Scotch have changed their mind on Indyref now" and the best "Boris can't change his mind on the WAG". I've almost got a line coming up.

 

Yes, the people have spoken and their will is being carried out. For the others, it's better that they don't speak again.

[nauseus]

40 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Think about it, the UK's main pillar of the economy is services, specifically financial services. 

 

When a no-deal Brexit happens what do you think will be the EU attitude to passporting and many other issues that greatly affect UK service providers? 

 

The UK was already among the most indebted nations in the world, with Rishi's spending spree the debt burden is alarming even UK bankers.

 

Add to this fact that many British small businesses are already badly affected by Covdi19 but now in addition have to deal with the extra cost of doing business with Europe, the odds are they won't have the margin to pay for the extra costs. 

 

The UK income per head, by UK projections, is set to shrink by over 8 percent.

 

It's a dire prospect, the UK economy.

Again you single out the UK as an economic basket case when there are bigger debts within the EU. Just carry on. I don't care. 

[Rookiescot]

43 minutes ago, vogie said:

The country have voted for Brexit twice now, those that wanted to remain could have voted for the vibrant Change Party (whatever happened to them).

The terms of the exit has nothing to do with you nor anyone else, the question was leave or remain, nothing more nothing less, the rest we left to our government to decide, stop coming out with such rediculous nonsense, I want a vote for this, I want a vote for that. You want to reverse Brexit end of, and that ship has sailed.

No Vogie we spoke about this remember?

I want the hardest, most destructive and most damaging Brexit possible.

[dunroaming]

19 hours ago, Logosone said:

The old Empire believers who run the UK now never wanted a deal.

 

They just wanted to be rid of awful Europe as fast as possible. So they can go on to be the Superman the world so desperately needs. How's that working out?

True enough Johnson, Rees Mogg and their cronies never wanted a trade deal even though they promised us the EU would fall over themselves to give us one.  But that song has been sung enough over the years and we all know that we were sold a pup.  Now Johnson has a whopping majority in the house (thanks to the gullible British public) he can do exactly as he pleases with no effective opposition.  There is no instruction to get a deal as we all can clearly see by the inactivity of the so called negotiator (actually Cummings puppet).

 

Or maybe not?  Boris is clearly panicking over Scotland's renewed appetite for independence, even going up there to try to calm the waters.  And the "waters" is part of the problem.  No deal over fishing rites would be a big deal in Scotland.  (Some input from the Scottish TV members would be appreciated here).  As I see it, if there is no trade deals with the EU then Scotland would press hard for another vote on independence and very probably get it.

 

There is another theory.  And that is that the UK are taking it to the wire and will then agree a deal at the eleventh hour conceding on the points that the EU insist on.  That way it would be too late for the hard core Brexiteers to raise their objections.

 

The problem, as always, is that this shower never play a straight bat!  Constantly lying and U-turning and ducking and diving.

 

 

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No Vogie we spoke about this remember?

I want the hardest, most destructive and most damaging Brexit possible.

I honestly think that you do, then you can say 'you see I was right all along' but I think you will be greatly disappointed as the UK will do just fine.

[Rookiescot]

16 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

True enough Johnson, Rees Mogg and their cronies never wanted a trade deal even though they promised us the EU would fall over themselves to give us one.  But that song has been sung enough over the years and we all know that we were sold a pup.  Now Johnson has a whopping majority in the house (thanks to the gullible British public) he can do exactly as he pleases with no effective opposition.  There is no instruction to get a deal as we all can clearly see by the inactivity of the so called negotiator (actually Cummings puppet).

 

Or maybe not?  Boris is clearly panicking over Scotland's renewed appetite for independence, even going up there to try to calm the waters.  And the "waters" is part of the problem.  No deal over fishing rites would be a big deal in Scotland.  (Some input from the Scottish TV members would be appreciated here).  As I see it, if there is no trade deals with the EU then Scotland would press hard for another vote on independence and very probably get it.

 

There is another theory.  And that is that the UK are taking it to the wire and will then agree a deal at the eleventh hour conceding on the points that the EU insist on.  That way it would be too late for the hard core Brexiteers to raise their objections.

 

The problem, as always, is that this shower never play a straight bat!  Constantly lying and U-turning and ducking and diving.

 

 

Scottish fishing rights is not that big a deal in Scotland. Scottish fishermen know there is plenty of sea out there and plenty of fish in it.

What does have people worried is a no deal Brexit. Most of the catch in Scottish waters is actually exported to, yes, you guessed it, the EU.

If there are tariffs along the lines of WTO then that market is going to disappear. 

Also factor in the huge salmon farming industry in Scotland. Their biggest market is the EU as well. Again tariffs are bad news.

Hard Brexit is certain to mean independence. Johnson and the Brexiteers have been the best recruiting agents Scotland could have asked for. Oddly enough he had another seagull visit to Scotland yesterday.

Swooped in. Crapped everywhere and then flew off again.

He did not even inform the Scottish government of his intention to visit. First they knew about it was reading the newspapers.

[Rookiescot]

25 minutes ago, vogie said:

I honestly think that you do, then you can say 'you see I was right all along' but I think you will be greatly disappointed as the UK will do just fine.

No I want it because it guarantees independence.

Think of the positives of Scottish independence for England. You will finally be free of a nation, the population of which you claim, hates the English.

You will no longer have to subsidise an ungrateful country.

We can build a wall along the border to keep those pesky English Scottish out.

England for the English. You know you want it.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

No I want it because it guarantees independence.

Think of the positives of Scottish independence for England. You will finally be free of a nation, the population of which you claim, hates the English.

You will no longer have to subsidise an ungrateful country.

We can build a wall along the border to keep those pesky English Scottish out.

England for the English. You know you want it.

I have never said that the population of Scotland "hates the English" I said the SNP hates the English, big difference. 

The only independence the whole UK should be striving for is, independence from Ian Blackford, every Wednesday at PMQs:

Blackford: We want independence!

Boris: No

Blackford: Oh ok.????????????

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

I have never said that the population of Scotland "hates the English" I said the SNP hates the English, big difference. 

The only independence the whole UK should be striving for is, independence from Ian Blackford, every Wednesday at PMQs:

Blackford: We want independence!

Boris: No

Blackford: Oh ok.????????????

54% and rising.

Johnsons visit probably put another couple of percent on that as well.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

54% and rising.

Johnsons visit probably put another couple of percent on that as well.

Does the leader of the UK need permission to set foot on Scottish soil now, even you must see how nonsensical that is.

Edited July 24, 2020 by vogie

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Does the leader of the UK need permission to set foot on Scottish soil now, even you must see how nonsensical that is.

Colonial nonsense.

You dont think its common decency to inform the government of another country that you will be visiting said country?

Your days of treating Scotland as a possession are coming to an end. Things like Johnson visiting without informing just display the contempt and arrogance that has gotten us all into the position we are in.

But British nationalists and especially English nationalists just cannot help themselves.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

A man that spent 5 years fighting the Germans and to keep them out of Britain is very unlikely to want to offer our country on a silver platter for free I would have thought.

It is, of course, undeniable that Churchill led the UK against the German state in a war, but it was a war against an ideology (and it's implementation) not the German people per sec. I'm sure that you would agree?

 

When and  how has the UK been offered up on a silver platter exactly?

 

1 hour ago, vogie said:

However in your defense you do come across as little more of a reasonable remainer on here than some. ????

And in your defence, you appear to be more polite and personable than some of the die-hard Brexiters who post here.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Colonial nonsense.

You dont think its common decency to inform the government of another country that you will be visiting said country?

Your days of treating Scotland as a possession are coming to an end. Things like Johnson visiting without informing just display the contempt and arrogance that has gotten us all into the position we are in.

But British nationalists and especially English nationalists just cannot help themselves.

You are showing your true colours, don't let paranoia destroy you.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, vogie said:

You are showing your true colours, don't let paranoia destroy you.

You know I wish I had your skills.

They way you can simply brush aside facts and ignore evidence.

Its a gift. It truly is.

So is it common decency for Johnson to inform another countries government that he would be visiting or not?

Or is it just another example of the colonial mindset British/English nationalists have?

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

You know I wish I had your skills.

They way you can simply brush aside facts and ignore evidence.

Its a gift. It truly is.

So is it common decency for Johnson to inform another countries government that he would be visiting or not?

Or is it just another example of the colonial mindset British/English nationalists have?

Johnson is the PM of the UK and as such doesn't have to inform anybody where he goes in the UK, just the same as myself, if I went anywhere in the UK I don't have to inform anyone. Does the FM inform Boris everytime she puts a foot elsewhere in the UK, no, nor does she have to. Stop making every little move that Boris makes your chance to point score, it won't work.

[3NUMBAS]

10 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The good news just keeps on flowing ????. So we get a clean Brexit with no ties to the EU. No need to let them deplete our fishing waters, no need to donate 100 Billion to the post Covid wealth transfer scheme, no need to follow their protectionist rules and laws, no ECJ Jurisdiction. No more membership fees. Marvelous.

 

Personally I would withhold the 39 Billion divorce payment as well, since the EU has clearly failed to negotiate in good faith as set out in the political declaration. 

 

Roll on December. Over 4 years of fighting the anti democrats and their shameful propaganda will all have been worth it. Independence at last ✊.

 

 

and   no payments to their new members ,,potless old balkans countries ..Turkey (applied in 1987), North Macedonia (applied in 2004), Montenegro (applied in 2008), Albania (applied in 2009), and Serbia (applied in 2009). All have started accession negotiations...that will need shedloads of cash to rebuild their decrepit infrastructures ..for german construction companies to build roads and metro systems which they can never afford to build without EU loans