Six U.S. mayors urge Congress to block Trump federal deployment

[johnnybangkok]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soooooo, when the thugs are breaking down the door to rob and rape one can call the Department of Community Safety to come and have a conference with the criminals then?

If you and EvenKeel are choosing to be so willfully ignorant of the facts here then there really is no point in debating you. It has been shown to both of you many times that getting rid of the police is not what defunding means and is not what Seattle is proposing. They are looking to reduce the police numbers through natural attrition but at no stage are they talking about getting rid of the vast majority. What they are proposing is to re-allocate part of the budget to other social departments, better equipped to handle certain situations. However “when the thugs are breaking down the door to rob and rape” that will obviously be handled by the police.
Please stop your obvious and rather pathetic examples. No one is buying what you are Badly selling. 

[johnnybangkok]

12 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

You mean the NY Post is fake news, OMG

Yes. That's exactly what we mean.

[Morch]

On 8/3/2020 at 10:12 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Still with the personal attacks I see.

 

Did you miss "In a way"? I suppose you did, but it was at the beginning of my post.

 

 

It's not a "personal attack", it's a rather clear take on what you posted. Don't see how "in a way" makes it all better.

[Morch]

On 8/3/2020 at 4:39 PM, EVENKEEL said:

We'll see how next to nothing it means that democrats stood by and let cities burn. Hey folks who had your livelihoods destroyed, it pretty means pretty close to nothing. 

 

US cities ain't burning, other in Trump supporters' hyperbole rants. Fires yes, whole cities burning? Not really. Thinking that it might come to that isn't quite the same thing.

[EVENKEEL]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

US cities ain't burning, other in Trump supporters' hyperbole rants. Fires yes, whole cities burning? Not really. Thinking that it might come to that isn't quite the same thing.

TV screens will be filled with scenes of torched buildings, rioters all dressed in black, cops being attacked. You can downplay the damage all you want. Voters will be asked to vote their conscience. The dems stood idly by and didn't try to stop the damage. 

 

Is that who you want protecting your country, they (dems) can't even protect our cities.

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

TV screens will be filled with scenes of torched buildings, rioters all dressed in black, cops being attacked. You can downplay the damage all you want. Voters will be asked to vote their conscience. The dems stood idly by and didn't try to stop the damage. 

 

Is that who you want protecting your country, they (dems) can't even protect our cities.

 

I'm not "downplaying" anything. You claim cities are burning, and yet you fail to back it up with anything of substance. There's violence, fires, and a lot of bad stuff - none of my posts deny any of it. There is a gap, though, between how you (and other Trump supporters on this forum) present things, and what's actually happening. And no, posting election predictions is not much of a reply either.

[Cryingdick]

Yup nothing but peaceful streets and people singing Cumbaya in Portland. There are peaceful protests in the day but at night things take a turn. Of course the media sensationalizes it to death. Just like they sensationalize how many cops are racist, the virus, etc. 

 

If there are no bad actors in Portland then there are no bad cops either. It isn't so clear cut. Also many of the normal protestors especially ones in the night time should know who is involved in criminal activity. So you can't simply say I was just simply protesting as I quietly watched people assemble molotov cocktails. 

 

This is why black communities ironically are so bad. The criminal element with in is tolerated and even celebrated by the "innocent" bystanders. If they do not want the police in their neighborhoods to sort out the problem they need to man up and hold those type of individuals accountable with in their own community. Yet we all know that doesn't happen.

 

 

https://katu.com/news/local/truck-drives-through-protesters-police-say-break-in-at-their-union-building

 

Whatever you call it, it sounds real pleasant doesn't it? 

[Scott]

Off-topic post reported and removed. 

[OZinPattaya]

On 7/28/2020 at 12:59 AM, stevenl said:

According to the local authorities, who I would trust a lot more than Trump cs and anonymous tvf posters, the feds have done the opposite, only made dying down protests lively again.

Really? You'd trust the local authorities more? Why don't you instead employ this newfangled technology called the "Internet" and see what these "peaceful" protests are actually like? See for yourself and then report back. Because surely the likes of these Democrat-run hellholes are doing swimmingly now.

[OZinPattaya]

4 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Yup nothing but peaceful streets and people singing Cumbaya in Portland. There are peaceful protests in the day but at night things take a turn. Of course the media sensationalizes it to death. Just like they sensationalize how many cops are racist, the virus, etc. 

 

If there are no bad actors in Portland then there are no bad cops either. It isn't so clear cut. Also many of the normal protestors especially ones in the night time should know who is involved in criminal activity. So you can't simply say I was just simply protesting as I quietly watched people assemble molotov cocktails. 

 

This is why black communities ironically are so bad. The criminal element with in is tolerated and even celebrated by the "innocent" bystanders. If they do not want the police in their neighborhoods to sort out the problem they need to man up and hold those type of individuals accountable with in their own community. Yet we all know that doesn't happen.

 

 

https://katu.com/news/local/truck-drives-through-protesters-police-say-break-in-at-their-union-building

 

Whatever you call it, it sounds real pleasant doesn't it? 

Black communities in America taking a modicum of responsibility for their own predicament and being willing to work with the police, in order to improve their own communities--this will never happen so long as the Democratic Party is forever willing to provide them with endless social services, at tax-payer expense--believe me, reparations in America were paid a very, very long time ago in the form of welfare--and a pat victimology they can reference whenever they feel like it.

[Damrongsak]

42 minutes ago, OZinPattaya said:

Black communities in America taking a modicum of responsibility for their own predicament and being willing to work with the police, in order to improve their own communities--this will never happen so long as the Democratic Party is forever willing to provide them with endless social services, at tax-payer expense--believe me, reparations in America were paid a very, very long time ago in the form of welfare--and a pat victimology they can reference whenever they feel like it.

They get votes, which is what keeps them in power.  Never mind the fact that deficit spending is running the country into ruin, there's always enough to siphon off and live the high life. 

[simple1]

7 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

<SNIP>The criminal element with in is tolerated and even celebrated by the "innocent" bystanders.

Is it not true generally potential witnesses are fearing for thier and families lives from gang / criminal retaliation? Law enforcement also has significant issues gaining trust and respect in African American communities - it is not a one-way street; faults lies with both parties.

[Cryingdick]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

Is it not true generally potential witnesses are fearing for thier and families lives from gang / criminal retaliation? Law enforcement also has significant issues gaining trust and respect in African American communities - it is not a one-way street; faults lies with both parties.

That might be true but they are also watching the looting on their new 70" TV that Junior "brought" home. Where did that come from?

[johnnybangkok]

This is for the benefit of Cryingdick, Ozin Pattaya, EvenKeel and the one that loves Thai Beaches.

This subject demonstrates quite succinctly the different approaches from opposing arguments. The frustration when hearing your thoughts (and they are valid sometimes) is your tendancy to have such black and white (pun intended) views on what are quite nuanced subjects. You argue that 'cities are burning' and 'dems can't maintain law and order' by assuming we are advocating the violence and destruction going on by a minority of protestors. This is just simply not the case as no one is condoning the hooligan element obviously present at these demonstrations but what we are saying is a measured approach is required (one that the 6 mayors are advocating) that doesn't incite even more trouble. This is what the facts are saying; yes there is vandalism and trouble (although not nearly as much as you are trying to make out) but the protests where subsiding and petering out (as often these things do) until Trump added fuel to the fire by ordering a heavy handed federal incursion that does nothing to help the situation other than get his own base fired up yet again and distract the populace from his terrible handing of the C19 pandemic.

The 6 mayors are people who know what is best for their cities and they are all saying they don't want federal help because their approach is de-escalating the problem rather that Trumps approach which is not. This is now bearing fruit with Portland courthouse area seeing its smallest crowd in four days and more importantly, those present remained peaceful through the course of the night with no violent agitators apparent therein.  https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/08/03/portland-riots-read-out-august-3 . This of course can be put down to the use of Federal forces but is likely just to be the petering out of these protests.

And correct me if I'm wrong (I've scowered several news sites for verification) but apart from Portland, I cannot see any other troubles in any other US city (I'm not 100% on this so would happily be corrected if not true).

Big problems require nuanced solutions so when you are cherry picking scenarios to back up your narrative, please remember there is more than one way to skin a cat, something that many of us understand but many of you don't.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by johnnybangkok

[Cryingdick]

6 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

This is for the benefit of Cryingdick, Ozin Pattaya, EvenKeel and the one that loves Thai Beaches.

This subject demonstrates quite succinctly the different approaches from opposing arguments. The frustration when hearing your thoughts (and they are valid sometimes) is your tendancy to have such black and white (pun intended) views on what are quite nuanced subjects. You argue that 'cities are burning' and 'dems can't maintain law and order' by assuming we are advocating the violence and destruction going on by a minority of protestors. This is just simply not the case as no one is condoning the hooligan element obviously present at these demonstrations but what we are saying is a measured approach is required (one that the 6 mayors are advocating) that doesn't incite even more trouble. This is what the facts are saying; yes there is vandalism and trouble (although not nearly as much as you are trying to make out) but the protests where subsiding and petering out (as often these things do) until Trump added fuel to the fire by ordering a heavy handed federal incursion that does nothing to help the situation other than get his own base fired up yet again and distract the populace from his terrible handing of the C19 pandemic.

The 6 mayors are people who know what is best for their cities and they are all saying they don't want federal help because their approach is de-escalating the problem rather that Trumps approach which is not. This is now bearing fruit with Portland courthouse area seeing its smallest crowd in four days and more importantly, those present remained peaceful through the course of the night with no violent agitators apparent therein.  https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/08/03/portland-riots-read-out-august-3 . This of course can be put down to the use of Federal forces but is likely just to be the petering out of these protests.

And correct me if I'm wrong (I've scowered several news sites for verification) but apart from Portland, I cannot see any other troubles in any other US city (I'm not 100% on this so would happily be corrected if not true).

Big problems require nuanced solutions so when you are cherry picking scenarios to back up your narrative, please remember there is more than one way to skin a cat, something that many of us understand. 

 

 

 

I never said the city was burning.I said there were riots. Portland isn't Minneapolis.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Cryingdick

[simple1]

49 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

That might be true but they are also watching the looting on their new 70" TV that Junior "brought" home. Where did that come from?

A less well-off family is going to report a family member to police for theft? Then you have wealthy people defrauding people pf millions / billions, how many are dobbed into the police by family?

[johnnybangkok]

47 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

I never said the city was burning.I said there were riots. Portland isn't Minneapolis.

I wasn't talking about you. EvenKeel said cities were burning

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

I wasn't talking about you. EvenKeel said cities were burning

 

 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/protest-portland-violence-attack-journalist

 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/08/portland-police-chief-jami-resch-quits-taps-black-cop-as-replacement/

 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1210871/portland-arizona-texas-blm-protesters-garrett-foster/

 

 

Nothing to see here folks, yes I stated the cities are burning, the violence continues. Nothing to see here folks, nothing but peaceful protesters.

 

For some reason you're obsessed with "cities are burning" they are...Portland is still burning, show proof it;s all over across America. Show me the violence and destruction is over. You can't, you can reference ultra left news showing all is well I'll bet.

 

Go find someone else to be obsessed with......

 

Kum 

Bah Yah America..... 

Edited August 6, 2020 by EVENKEEL

[johnnybangkok]

37 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

 

 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/protest-portland-violence-attack-journalist

 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/08/portland-police-chief-jami-resch-quits-taps-black-cop-as-replacement/

 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1210871/portland-arizona-texas-blm-protesters-garrett-foster/

 

 

Nothing to see here folks, yes I stated the cities are burning, the violence continues. Nothing to see here folks, nothing but peaceful protesters.

 

For some reason you're obsessed with "cities are burning" they are...Portland is still burning, show proof it;s all over across America. Show me the violence and destruction is over. You can't, you can reference ultra left news showing all is well I'll bet.

 

Go find someone else to be obsessed with......

 

Kum 

Bah Yah America..... 

One more time for the people at the back; if Portland is burning, name 5 buildings that have burned? 

[EVENKEEL]

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

One more time for the people at the back; if Portland is burning, name 5 buildings that have burned? 

You can't avoid the onslaught of images of fires being set in Portland. Nothing to see here folks. Portland is doing just fine.

[simple1]

 

2 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

One more time for the people at the back; if Portland is burning, name 5 buildings that have burned? 

Info on damage in Portland dated 7 July which hopefully provides some perspective...

 

They estimated repair costs to public buildings approaching $300,000 so far and $4.8 million in property damage to businesses.

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2020/07/city-multnomah-county-detail-violence-cost-of-repairs-damage-in-response-to-dont-shoot-portlands-motion-to-restrict-tear-gas-less-lethal-weapons.html

[Mama Noodle]

11 minutes ago, simple1 said:

$4.8 million in property damage to businesses.

Just peaceful protests though ????

[simple1]

10 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

Just peaceful protests though ????

Paints a very different story to 'cities are burning' doesn't it. 'As you well know the vast majority are peaceful, but there are criminals and 'agitators' from various groups. Personally, I think it's well past due to get factual info from law enforcement rather than politicians on exactly what politically motivated groups are involved and number of 'agitators'.

Edited August 6, 2020 by simple1

[EVENKEEL]

Straight from Seattle the defunding is working out nicely, their first Black female Police Chief resigned because of cuts......

 

• Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best announced her resignation on Monday, effective September 2.

• Best, who is the city's first Black female police chief, decided to quit hours after the City Council passed cuts to her department's budget.

• The Seattle Police Department's $409 million budget was reduced by $3.5 million for the rest of the year, which will likely result in about 100 officers being laid off.

• The cuts amount to far less than the 50% sought by Black Lives Matter protesters.

https://www.insider.com/seattles-black-police-chief-carmen-best-resigns-after-budget-cuts-2020-8

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed. 

 

[OZinPattaya]

On 8/5/2020 at 10:52 PM, johnnybangkok said:

This is for the benefit of Cryingdick, Ozin Pattaya, EvenKeel and the one that loves Thai Beaches.

This subject demonstrates quite succinctly the different approaches from opposing arguments. The frustration when hearing your thoughts (and they are valid sometimes) is your tendancy to have such black and white (pun intended) views on what are quite nuanced subjects. You argue that 'cities are burning' and 'dems can't maintain law and order' by assuming we are advocating the violence and destruction going on by a minority of protestors. This is just simply not the case as no one is condoning the hooligan element obviously present at these demonstrations but what we are saying is a measured approach is required (one that the 6 mayors are advocating) that doesn't incite even more trouble. This is what the facts are saying; yes there is vandalism and trouble (although not nearly as much as you are trying to make out) but the protests where subsiding and petering out (as often these things do) until Trump added fuel to the fire by ordering a heavy handed federal incursion that does nothing to help the situation other than get his own base fired up yet again and distract the populace from his terrible handing of the C19 pandemic.

The 6 mayors are people who know what is best for their cities and they are all saying they don't want federal help because their approach is de-escalating the problem rather that Trumps approach which is not. This is now bearing fruit with Portland courthouse area seeing its smallest crowd in four days and more importantly, those present remained peaceful through the course of the night with no violent agitators apparent therein.  https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/08/03/portland-riots-read-out-august-3 . This of course can be put down to the use of Federal forces but is likely just to be the petering out of these protests.

And correct me if I'm wrong (I've scowered several news sites for verification) but apart from Portland, I cannot see any other troubles in any other US city (I'm not 100% on this so would happily be corrected if not true).

Big problems require nuanced solutions so when you are cherry picking scenarios to back up your narrative, please remember there is more than one way to skin a cat, something that many of us understand but many of you don't.

 

 

This is a very well considered post. The problem is that the lack of appreciation for nuance is coming almost exclusively from the Left. These, make no mistake, are the "black and white" thinkers. So if you want to decry the lack of nuance, maybe the political party you most likely sympathize with shouldn't support the likes of Antifa and the BLM. My personal beef is with left-wing radicalism, which has been adopted by the Democratic Party, precisely this lack of nuance of which you speak. Don't pretend for one moment that this is coming from the right wing. This bigoted, intolerant, tribalistic mentality. That's on you Lefties.

[johnnybangkok]

13 hours ago, OZinPattaya said:

This is a very well considered post. The problem is that the lack of appreciation for nuance is coming almost exclusively from the Left. These, make no mistake, are the "black and white" thinkers. So if you want to decry the lack of nuance, maybe the political party you most likely sympathize with shouldn't support the likes of Antifa and the BLM. My personal beef is with left-wing radicalism, which has been adopted by the Democratic Party, precisely this lack of nuance of which you speak. Don't pretend for one moment that this is coming from the right wing. This bigoted, intolerant, tribalistic mentality. That's on you Lefties.

Since you seem so convinced that Democrats support Antifa and BLM you should have no problem finding several quoteS from Democratic congressman/woman or democratic senators specifically condoning these groups and supporting the looters? 5 will do please. 
If you are struggling to find a valid source for this then perhaps you might want to consider it is just a GOP narrative that is desperately trying to pin “supporting anarchy” on the Dems without any evidence other than them offering support and sympathy to peaceful protestors who are using their democratic right to protest. 
The tactic is so basic and transparent as to be laughable but you just keep banging that drum without any evidence other than what Fox News is trying (obviously quite well) to sell you.