On 8/1/2020 at 9:31 PM, Tie Dye Samurai said:

who cares how old somebody is if they are capable of guiding the country. We must be doing something right because everybody else cares so much about what we do

 

I think age matters,

 

would you like USofA guided/managed by a POTUS with conservative ideas and mindset securely fastened to the past

and at an age way beyond age/life expectancy for the relevant age group

then politicions like Sanders Trump HClinton Pelosi Biden Warren meet your needs

(guess Warren is OK for life expectancy, just)

 

would you prefer a POTUS with energy/drive and a modern mindset and bold/brave ideas for pushing USofA forward

then you would look for somebody else me thinks

 

 

Edited August 2, 20205 yr by melvinmelvin
typo

9 hours ago, rabas said:

Trump was not president in 1918 (of course) but considering the super low turnout maybe it would have been a good idea. At least everyone would have a fair chance to vote. Some countries did delay votes that year, I believe.

 

Ok, maybe now days some in the US may not know. But historically its well known, which is why everywhere in the world has always protected against voter fraud and election monitoring is so wide spread.

 

No one can feign surprise.

There is no credible evidence of voter fraud in the US, which is why you have to bang on t ‘other counties’.

 

There is plenty of evidence of organized gerrymandering and concerted efforts to deny large numbers of US citizens their vote. Oddly Trump’s supporters don’t think this is an issue.

 

I guess we should look at who is making these concerted efforts to deny US citizens their vote.

 

 

On 8/1/2020 at 11:26 AM, heybruce said:

The states decide how elections will be conducted.  Aside from rules barring discrimination the Federal Government has little say in it.  So Trump can complain all he likes about mail-in votes, it's not for him to decide.

 

His complaints about mail-in voting put the Republican government in Florida in a bind.  The Republicans have controlled state government for many years (twenty at least) and have made it easy to vote by mail, since Florida has lots of senior citizens who are more likely to vote, and vote conservative, if they can mail in their ballots.  So Florida's Republican governor and other state officials proceed as before and ignore Trump's rants about how mail-in ballots invite fraud.

 

Actually there is no conclusive evidence that mail-in voting favors one party over the other.  I assume that Trump complains about it simply to lay the groundwork for yet another claim of election fraud.

 

 

Given that we are constantly being told that Trump will lose, if he wins I certainly expect all those that hate Trump will be complaining that he committed election fraud. A win for him will bring out all the usual complaints that have been aired on these pages constantly over the past 3 years eg, he lost the popular vote, his base are deplorables, etc.

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that we are constantly being told that Trump will lose, if he wins I certainly expect all those that hate Trump will be complaining that he committed election fraud. A win for him will bring out all the usual complaints that have been aired on these pages constantly over the past 3 years eg, he lost the popular vote, his base are deplorables, etc.

"he lost the popular vote, his base are deplorables, etc."

Both very true claims, but no examples at all of claims of election fraud.

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

There is no credible evidence of voter fraud in the US, which is why you have to bang on t ‘other counties’.

 

There is plenty of evidence of organized gerrymandering and concerted efforts to deny large numbers of US citizens their vote. Oddly Trump’s supporters don’t think this is an issue.

 

I guess we should look at who is making these concerted efforts to deny US citizens their vote.

 

 

see bold in quote above;

 

could you elaborate a bit on that?

how is it accomplished?

 

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that we are constantly being told that Trump will lose, if he wins I certainly expect all those that hate Trump will be complaining that he committed election fraud. A win for him will bring out all the usual complaints that have been aired on these pages constantly over the past 3 years eg, he lost the popular vote, his base are deplorables, etc.

As opposed to the gracious way that MAGA will handle a Trump loss on November 3rd, led by fearless leader himself calling for a gentle and peaceful transition of power...not to mention what will surely be an impassioned call, by the self proclaimed stable genius, for the nation to put the past politics and battles behind us and to come together to make America great again ...you know as well as I do that when Donald Trump loses on November 3rd that he will not even attend the Biden Inauguration because he is classless selfish and petty. I would love to see a poll of how many think that Donald Trump attends the 2021 Inauguration if he loses the election on November 3rd.

 

 

Washington Examiner - More than 16M mail-in ballots went missing from 2016 and 2018 elections: Report

 

"In the 2018 election, about 42.4 million ballots were mailed to registered voters. Of those mailed, more than 1 million were undeliverable, more than 430,000 were rejected, and nearly 10.5 million went missing."

 

This is per Federal election Commission data.

 

No problem, eh?  What does that work out to?  10.5M missing divided by 42.4M sent = 24.76%  Can someone check my math please?  Seems like a lot.  Granted, some of those missing ballots would be ballots that were sent out but never sent in.  Officials are at a loss to provide an explanation which would account for all those missing ballots.

Real Clear Politics - 1 in 5 Ballots Rejected as Fraud Is Charged in N.J. Mail-In Election

 

16,747 vote-by-mail ballots received but only 13,557 votes counted.  19% were disqualified.  This is one example of vote-by-mail results instituted due to Covid.

 

Yeah, nothing to go wrong.  LOL

45 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

see bold in quote above;

 

could you elaborate a bit on that?

how is it accomplished?

 

They redistribute voting districts to make it more difficult or a hassle to vote in certain communities. Or they slice up the districts in a way that doesn't make logistical sense but does allow one party to have an advantage in terms of overall votes. 

Covid-19 makes it easier. For example if you have a battleground state and you use Covid-19 as an excuse to not open all voting booths citing health concerns, you can selectively open voting booths in the districts that are more favorable to you making it more of a hassle to reach others. Do you want to vote badly enough to stand in 5 hour lines during the middle of a pandemic? And then if polling closes and they shut their doors after you've been standing in line all day what happens? 

There's an article on the guardian about some of the tactics in Georgia here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/10/georgia-election-recount-stacey-abrams-brian-kemp

1 hour ago, jcsmith said:

They redistribute voting districts to make it more difficult or a hassle to vote in certain communities. Or they slice up the districts in a way that doesn't make logistical sense but does allow one party to have an advantage in terms of overall votes. 

Covid-19 makes it easier. For example if you have a battleground state and you use Covid-19 as an excuse to not open all voting booths citing health concerns, you can selectively open voting booths in the districts that are more favorable to you making it more of a hassle to reach others. Do you want to vote badly enough to stand in 5 hour lines during the middle of a pandemic? And then if polling closes and they shut their doors after you've been standing in line all day what happens? 

There's an article on the guardian about some of the tactics in Georgia here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/10/georgia-election-recount-stacey-abrams-brian-kemp

 

ok, thanks

but not very effective in presidential elections?

 

(for presidential elections I assume that votes cast are added up for the whole state before electors are dished out)

 

Edited August 3, 20205 yr by melvinmelvin

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Washington Examiner - More than 16M mail-in ballots went missing from 2016 and 2018 elections: Report

 

"In the 2018 election, about 42.4 million ballots were mailed to registered voters. Of those mailed, more than 1 million were undeliverable, more than 430,000 were rejected, and nearly 10.5 million went missing."

 

This is per Federal election Commission data.

 

No problem, eh?  What does that work out to?  10.5M missing divided by 42.4M sent = 24.76%  Can someone check my math please?  Seems like a lot.  Granted, some of those missing ballots would be ballots that were sent out but never sent in.  Officials are at a loss to provide an explanation which would account for all those missing ballots.

if what you write is roughly right;

I'd say that the USofA faces more serious problems than preventing 4 more Trump years or securing another 4 Trump years

 

seems that one of the fundamental gears in the political operation of the US is long overdue

for oilshift and overhaul

 

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Washington Examiner - More than 16M mail-in ballots went missing from 2016 and 2018 elections: Report

 

"In the 2018 election, about 42.4 million ballots were mailed to registered voters. Of those mailed, more than 1 million were undeliverable, more than 430,000 were rejected, and nearly 10.5 million went missing."

 

This is per Federal election Commission data.

 

No problem, eh?  What does that work out to?  10.5M missing divided by 42.4M sent = 24.76%  Can someone check my math please?  Seems like a lot.  Granted, some of those missing ballots would be ballots that were sent out but never sent in.  Officials are at a loss to provide an explanation which would account for all those missing ballots.

Does "went missing" mean not returned?  If so, I'd say about a quarter of people who registered to vote by mail didn't get around to it.

 

Undeliverable and rejected depends on the circumstances.  I suspect that in states that vote entirely by mail that a large number of ballots are sent to out of date addresses.  If the people who moved or died don't update their voter registration status, then that will happen.

 

Do you have any  evidence that undelivered or missing mail in ballots translate to voter fraud?

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Real Clear Politics - 1 in 5 Ballots Rejected as Fraud Is Charged in N.J. Mail-In Election

 

16,747 vote-by-mail ballots received but only 13,557 votes counted.  19% were disqualified.  This is one example of vote-by-mail results instituted due to Covid.

 

Yeah, nothing to go wrong.  LOL

Yes, fraud in a local, not state-wide or national election, that was caught.  It would take a far larger, and more successful, fraud than that to affect a national election.  It would also be much more difficult to get away with it.

6 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

if what you write is roughly right;

I'd say that the USofA faces more serious problems than preventing 4 more Trump years or securing another 4 Trump years

 

seems that one of the fundamental gears in the political operation of the US is long overdue

for oilshift and overhaul

In my view it isn't an overhaul of any one or several political operational gears but an overhaul of values is required.  Corruption, while always present to a degree since America's founding, has been on steroids for quite some time.  One can blame the elites but the elites can't function without willing accomplices.  It's a societal problem in my opinion.  Character, integrity, ideals. mores, honour . . . these qualities have been replaced over many years by other impoverished ideas.  The seeds are now bearing fruit.  Sounds rather hopeless but I have a lot of faith that Americans will pull through.  There's lots of Americans who still adhere to noble principles.  I trust they will shine in the end.

 

Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. - Samuel Adams, 1749.  I believe this quote aptly describes the overall theme of America's current drama.

14 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

In my view it isn't an overhaul of any one or several political operational gears but an overhaul of values is required.  Corruption, while always present to a degree since America's founding, has been on steroids for quite some time.  One can blame the elites but the elites can't function without willing accomplices.  It's a societal problem in my opinion.  Character, integrity, ideals. mores, honour . . . these qualities have been replaced over many years by other impoverished ideas.  The seeds are now bearing fruit.  Sounds rather hopeless but I have a lot of faith that Americans will pull through.  There's lots of Americans who still adhere to noble principles.  I trust they will shine in the end.

 

Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. - Samuel Adams, 1749.  I believe this quote aptly describes the overall theme of America's current drama.

"Corruption, while always present to a degree since America's founding, has been on steroids for quite some time."

 

Yes, since Trump got elected.

24 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Does "went missing" mean not returned?  If so, I'd say about a quarter of people who registered to vote by mail didn't get around to it.

 

Undeliverable and rejected depends on the circumstances.  I suspect that in states that vote entirely by mail that a large number of ballots are sent to out of date addresses.  If the people who moved or died don't update their voter registration status, then that will happen.

 

Do you have any  evidence that undelivered or missing mail in ballots translate to voter fraud?

No, heybruce, I do not.  How would it be possible since voter fraud doesn't exist.

22 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes, fraud in a local, not state-wide or national election, that was caught.  It would take a far larger, and more successful, fraud than that to affect a national election.  It would also be much more difficult to get away with it.

Yes, voter fraud, if it did indeed exist, could only exist on a local level.  On a statewide or national level?  That's an absolute impossibility.  You are correct.

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"Corruption, while always present to a degree since America's founding, has been on steroids for quite some time."

 

Yes, since Trump got elected.

Doesn't it ever get boring for you?  LOL

8 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Yes, voter fraud, if it did indeed exist, could only exist on a local level.  On a statewide or national level?  That's an absolute impossibility.  You are correct.

Unlike voter suppression.

30 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

No, heybruce, I do not.  How would it be possible since voter fraud doesn't exist.

Has anyone claimed that or is it just another lame deflection?

45 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

In my view it isn't an overhaul of any one or several political operational gears but an overhaul of values is required.  Corruption, while always present to a degree since America's founding, has been on steroids for quite some time.  One can blame the elites but the elites can't function without willing accomplices.  It's a societal problem in my opinion.  Character, integrity, ideals. mores, honour . . . these qualities have been replaced over many years by other impoverished ideas.  The seeds are now bearing fruit.  Sounds rather hopeless but I have a lot of faith that Americans will pull through.  There's lots of Americans who still adhere to noble principles.  I trust they will shine in the end.

 

Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. - Samuel Adams, 1749.  I believe this quote aptly describes the overall theme of America's current drama.

right, see what you mean (and without that hope/faith one has given in to less than mediocricity)

 

a commendable goal, that is not just down the road but some rather lengthy stretches away

 

safe trip

34 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

No, heybruce, I do not.  How would it be possible since voter fraud doesn't exist.

Successful voter fraud on a scale to change a state or national election has not been proven.

31 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Yes, voter fraud, if it did indeed exist, could only exist on a local level.  On a statewide or national level?  That's an absolute impossibility.  You are correct.

No one said that, just that there is no evidence of it happening at a level to affect a state or national election.

30 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Doesn't it ever get boring for you?  LOL

It clearly doesn't for you.

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

In my view it isn't an overhaul of any one or several political operational gears but an overhaul of values is required.  Corruption, while always present to a degree since America's founding, has been on steroids for quite some time.  One can blame the elites but the elites can't function without willing accomplices.  It's a societal problem in my opinion.  Character, integrity, ideals. mores, honour . . . these qualities have been replaced over many years by other impoverished ideas.  The seeds are now bearing fruit.  Sounds rather hopeless but I have a lot of faith that Americans will pull through.  There's lots of Americans who still adhere to noble principles.  I trust they will shine in the end.

 

Neither the wisest constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt. - Samuel Adams, 1749.  I believe this quote aptly describes the overall theme of America's current drama.

I wonder how you can keep a straight face when talking about 'values, character, integrity, ideals. mores (I assume that was supposed to say morals), honour' whilst backing the most corrupt and amoral POTUS to ever lead the US of A.

I do however agree and think 'Americans will pull through' and will eventually see that this Emporor really has no cloithes and vote accordingly come November. 

14 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I wonder how you can keep a straight face when talking about 'values, character, integrity, ideals. mores (I assume that was supposed to say morals), honour' whilst backing the most corrupt and amoral POTUS to ever lead the US of A.

I do however agree and think 'Americans will pull through' and will eventually see that this Emporor really has no cloithes and vote accordingly come November. 

Odd, isn't it?  What I see in Trump and what you see in Trump are obviously decidedly different.  That would explain it.

 

Mores - the fixed morally binding customs of a particular group.  That's what I meant.

16 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Odd, isn't it?  What I see in Trump and what you see in Trump are obviously decidedly different.  That would explain it.

 

Mores - the fixed morally binding customs of a particular group.  That's what I meant.

Apologies for the 'mores'.

I too find it 'odd' that you cannot see the moral depravity of a man who so far has been caught out in over 20,000 blatant lies; who tries to curry favour with despots; who ignores his own intelligence services when they say Russia has put bounties on American soldiers; who got caught with and paid off a porn star; who funnels state funds to his resorts and hotels and who still refuses to release his tax returns. The list goes on and on so if you are talking about morals, values, character, integrity and ideals, perhaps you should stop waxing lyrical about it and actually back someone who shows these characteristics rather than someone who is proven time and time again to not exhibit a single one of them. 

46 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Apologies for the 'mores'.

I too find it 'odd' that you cannot see the moral depravity of a man who so far has been caught out in over 20,000 blatant lies; who tries to curry favour with despots; who ignores his own intelligence services when they say Russia has put bounties on American soldiers; who got caught with and paid off a porn star; who funnels state funds to his resorts and hotels and who still refuses to release his tax returns. The list goes on and on so if you are talking about morals, values, character, integrity and ideals, perhaps you should stop waxing lyrical about it and actually back someone who shows these characteristics rather than someone who is proven time and time again to not exhibit a single one of them. 

I'd recommend studying some human psychology.  How the human mind works.  It would explain a lot to you.  Perception is reality.  That's a clue.

 

As far as backing someone else.  Who?  Biden?   What characteristics does he exhibit to you?  I doubt if there's ever been an election cycle with as many loser candidates as the Dems put up this time around.  20 of them.  Tell me, who?

50 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'd recommend studying some human psychology.  How the human mind works.  It would explain a lot to you.  Perception is reality.  That's a clue.

 

As far as backing someone else.  Who?  Biden?   What characteristics does he exhibit to you?  I doubt if there's ever been an election cycle with as many loser candidates as the Dems put up this time around.  20 of them.  Tell me, who?

If we’re going to take you up on your suggestion I’ll choose to start with the Psychological concept of ‘Projection’.

50 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'd recommend studying some human psychology.  How the human mind works.  It would explain a lot to you.  Perception is reality.  That's a clue.

 

 

I need to be educated on what you are getting at and how it pertains to how Donald Trump has been caught out in over 20,000 blatant lies; who tries to curry favor with despots; who ignores his own intelligence services when they say Russia has put bounties on American soldiers; who got caught with and paid off a porn star; who funnels state funds to his resorts and hotels and who still refuses to release his tax returns. 

 

What is the perception I am missing that is the actual reality...and tell me how the human mind is supposed to be working that would explain anything other than Trump is what the current list above that is on the table says he is. Please uncover the clue you speak of for me, educate ALL OF US so that we and everybody else can be enlightened. By the way I have studied some human psychology, dont feel you need to spare the details...I will do my best to try and keep up.

The genius-in-chief strikes again:

 

'Trump Urges Voters To Use Absentee Ballots, Which Are, Uh, Mailed In'

 

"After railing about “fraudulent” mail-in ballots without any basis in fact, President Donald Trump bizarrely urged Americans on Friday to use absentee ballots — which are mailed in.
Just hours earlier, Michael Steele, former head of the Republican National Committee reminded Trump that the absentee ballots he (and many others in his administration) cast in elections are the same mail-in ballots he insists are fraudulent."

 

You just can't fix stupid.

4 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

The genius-in-chief strikes again:

 

'Trump Urges Voters To Use Absentee Ballots, Which Are, Uh, Mailed In'

 

"After railing about “fraudulent” mail-in ballots without any basis in fact, President Donald Trump bizarrely urged Americans on Friday to use absentee ballots — which are mailed in.
Just hours earlier, Michael Steele, former head of the Republican National Committee reminded Trump that the absentee ballots he (and many others in his administration) cast in elections are the same mail-in ballots he insists are fraudulent."

 

You just can't fix stupid.

 

 

You can say that again. Did you say it?  If not, say it again, or write it again.

 

There is a difference between mail in ballots and absentee. 

 

Google it if you don't believe Stadtler. 

 

You should always believe Stadtler.