Democrat Joe Biden chooses U.S. Senator Kamala Harris for White House running mate

[Smigel]

4 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Cherry picking much? Ok, I'll bite.

 

1). a free market economy.Really, then why has Trump had to de-regulate more than 80% of the regulations Obama straddled business with, to allow companies to thrive and grow. Particularly new businesses. 

After inheriting a fantastic economy from a Democratic government (who in turn inherited an economy on it's knees from a GOP government), Trump set about de-regulating to the detriment of the envornonment, workers rights and workers themselves. Trump was never interested in helping new business or the common man; he's only interested in helping big business make even more money for their own benefit. And what happened to that trickle down economy that every GOP government since Reagan has attempted to espouse? Did it trickle down or as usual, gush up?

 

2). Low taxation. Then why are people leaving california, New York and other dem run states and relocating in states like texas in their droves. Because they are sick of high regulation  high taxation, high crime mismanagement  

Let them. Rich people have that chance to pick up and go wherever they want. Not so for the middle and working class who have little or no choice but to eek out a living wherever they are now. And why are you defending low taxation for the super wealthy? There are billionaires and there's the gulible. Check your bank balance to see which one you are.

 

3). Freedom of speech. You cannot reasonably claim the dems are proponents of free speech surely. Are you aware of cancel culture? Whereby people have lost their jobs and had their lives destroyed simply for expressing an opinion. 

Let me give you a clue, the people driving this agenda are not conservatives. 

If your opinion is so abhorant that whole industries, large corporations and people in their millions come out against it, perhaps you should check your opinion.

 

4). The rule of law and patriotism. Again, you're pulling my chain yeah.! You must be. 

Try watching some video on the riots, looting and violence of the past 80 days. Get back to me with the number of people you see, wearing red maga hats carrying out the mayhem. 

No one, to include myself, other so called liberals on this site, Dem Governors, Congressmen, Senators or Mayors are condoning the actions of miscreants and hooligans who are rioting or looting. GOP and the right don't have a moral standing over this. You can't just sit there and say none is wearing a maga-hat so therefore it must be a Dem thing; that's gaslighting at best, complete misdirection at worse. A VERY small minority are taking advantage of predominately peaceful protests to create chaos, but as usual, it will be brought under control UNLESS a racist POTUS decides to throw more gas on the fire. And just remember who is ultimately in charge whilst this is all happening. You must be one of the only people in history who is blaming the people on the sidelines when all the resonsibility lies with the people on the field.

 

America has a chance to get away from the chaos and mismanagement of President who is in so far over his head it's not funny. Biden and Harris offer the opportunity for the Dems to once again save a nation ravaged by a GOP government who's only interest lies with their corporate sponsors and fellow billionaires. If you can't see that then I suggest you look a little harder than you seem to be doing right now and offer something more than what you've done here as I see very little of your 'libertarian' credentials and far too much of your 'conservative' ones.   

 

 

So Trumps policy of America first, and de-regulation, bringing companies and jobs back to America, that other administrations had shamefully been allowed to be outsourced abroad. 

That policy has hurt American workers, their rights and the environment, is that what you believe.? 

2). So it's just rich people that are leaving blue states in their thousands and relocating to red states, because they can. Nothing to do with small and medium business owners, and definitely no working class, leaving for a more affordable and better standard of living. 

By the way, I checked my bank account and I'm definitely not rich. But then again I already knew that, seeing as I've spent my working life, in a low paid career in the service of others. I am not and never have been motivated by money. 

3) in the United Kingdom, where I am from, a guy and his girlfriend both lost their jobs / were cancelled. Because the guy had the temerity to sponsor the flying of a banner from a light aircraft. The banner read " white lives matter". Is that the kind of abhorrent opinion of which you speak.? 

4) I disagree with your contention that dem mayor's, senators, governors and Congressmen (isn't that sexist), are not condoning the looters/ rioters and violence. I have yet to hear any let alone prominent dems condemn the Anarchy. Remember "silence is violence".Perhaps you could prove otherwise. If its also your contention that ANTIFA and Blm are Trump supporting anarchists, then there is literally no hope for you. Your Inste hatred of all things Trump and rich people has completely destroyed your capacity for logical thought. 

May I suggest you crack open a cold beer and calm yourself. 

Check out "you tube" inside Nancy pelosis district: This is not what America should look like.  it will enlighten you as to why people are fleeing dem states in their thousands. 

 

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, Smigel said:

So Trumps policy of America first, and de-regulation, bringing companies and jobs back to America, that other administrations had shamefully been allowed to be outsourced abroad. 

That policy has hurt American workers, their rights and the environment, is that what you believe.? 

2). So it's just rich people that are leaving blue states in their thousands and relocating to red states, because they can. Nothing to do with small and medium business owners, and definitely no working class, leaving for a more affordable and better standard of living. 

By the way, I checked my bank account and I'm definitely not rich. But then again I already knew that, seeing as I've spent my working life, in a low paid career in the service of others. I am not and never have been motivated by money. 

3) in the United Kingdom, where I am from, a guy and his girlfriend both lost their jobs / were cancelled. Because the guy had the temerity to sponsor the flying of a banner from a light aircraft. The banner read " white lives matter". Is that the kind of abhorrent opinion of which you speak.? 

4) I disagree with your contention that dem mayor's, senators, governors and Congressmen (isn't that sexist), are not condoning the looters/ rioters and violence. I have yet to hear any let alone prominent dems condemn the Anarchy. Remember "silence is violence".Perhaps you could prove otherwise. If its also your contention that ANTIFA and Blm are Trump supporting anarchists, then there is literally no hope for you. Your Inste hatred of all things Trump and rich people has completely destroyed your capacity for logical thought. 

May I suggest you crack open a cold beer and calm yourself. 

Check out "you tube" inside Nancy pelosis district: This is not what America should look like.  it will enlighten you as to why people are fleeing dem states in their thousands. 

 

First of all I’m rich. I own a company in Thailand that has 50 staff and turnovers millions a year and a high level of profitability. However I come from humble beginnings, brought up in Scotland with 5 kids and a single mother. I know poverty. I was brought up with it and lived it all through my informative years. 
What it taught me was that given an even and equal opportunity (which thanks to Scottish education, the NHS and social mobility), most people will go forward. They will take their opportunity and make better of themselves. All they want is the chance to be better. A small minority will take the p$ss, but most will try and elevate themselves. What they don’t need is racial barriers, sex oriented barriers and social status barriers. I would have hoped someone like yourself could understand that? Your problems are not the fault of equally disadvantaged people but are from those that choose to divide and conquer. 
Pick your individual echo chamber as much as you wish but ultimately the crumbs you are thrown from the likes of Trump are nothing more than a distraction. They are spreading division and hatred for those that are in exactly the same boat as you. 
Understand that and you might understand how hated he, Boris and all their ilk are. 
And this is coming from a guy who DOES look at his bank balance and should like what they are preaching, however my morality and sense of what is right and wrong chooses a different path. 
 

[Morch]

3 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Curious Joe Biden would choose as a running mate a woman who got her start in politics by having an affair with a married man...but I guess it isn't when you know that he had an affair with his current wife, Jill Biden, when she was still married to her first husband, Bill Stevenson. As someone wise once said, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

Kamala Harris launched political career with $120K 'patronage' job from boyfriend Willie Brown...

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/kamala-harris-launched-political-career-with-120k-patronage-job-from-boyfriend-willie-brown

 

 

Trump supporter concerned about candidates' moral character  and family values.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Morch

[Smigel]

29 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

First of all I’m rich. I own a company in Thailand that has 50 staff and turnovers millions a year and a high level of profitability. However I come from humble beginnings, brought up in Scotland with 5 kids and a single mother. I know poverty. I was brought up with it and lived it all through my informative years. 
What it taught me was that given an even and equal opportunity (which thanks to Scottish education, the NHS and social mobility), most people will go forward. They will take their opportunity and make better of themselves. All they want is the chance to be better. A small minority will take the p$ss, but most will try and elevate themselves. What they don’t need is racial barriers, sex oriented barriers and social status barriers. I would have hoped someone like yourself could understand that? Your problems are not the fault of equally disadvantaged people but are from those that choose to divide and conquer. 
Pick your individual echo chamber as much as you wish but ultimately the crumbs you are thrown from the likes of Trump are nothing more than a distraction. They are spreading division and hatred for those that are in exactly the same boat as you. 
Understand that and you might understand how hated he, Boris and all their ilk are. 
And this is coming from a guy who DOES look at his bank balance and should like what they are preaching, however my morality and sense of what is right and wrong chooses a different path. 
 

First of all my congratulations to you for your fiscal success in life. Although perhaps I should tamper that with some consolation for the inner turmoil you are obviously experiencing. 

To have come from humble beginnings with four other siblings cannot have been easy, but equally may have provided you with the drive and determination to make a success of your life. 

Did you actually read my post, because it seems you are under the misapprehension that I am bitter and twisted about my lot in life, and the fact that I have not made large amounts of money. 

I repeat, I chose a career in a public service that doesn't offer financial riches, but does give me a tremendous amount of job satisfaction and self esteem. Again I am not motivated by money. I can honestly say it was a pleasure to go to work. 

My mantra has always been if you enjoy what you do, you never work a day in your life. 

What are these racial, sexual and social barriers you speak of, that are holding people back from finding work. 

Frankly, in these days of equal opportunity and affirmative action, there has never been a better time for all parts of society to find employment. I find that a ridiculous statement. 

Just because I have posted a couple of opinions that defend Trump, attack democrats, and proffer Conservative traits, it doesn't mean I staunchly support Boris Johnson and the so called Conservative party, far from it. 

The contempt I hold for most politicians is limitless. The vast majority of them are nothing but a bunch of self serving, snouts in the trough, traitorous, liars. 

That would sell their own grandmother in a heartbeat. 

I don't buy into the orange man bad mantra, constantly churned out and whipped into a frenzy by the corrupt main stream media from day one of his nomination, let alone presidency. 

The election of Trump put a hell of a lot of self interest noses out of joint, which is why a lot of republicans are also against him. 

No president in history has had to put up with the utter hatred and lack of co-operation and respect that he has. 

Still he never gives an inch, he sticks to his guns and keeps going, and he will not be cowed by the corrupt media. I for one admire him for it. 

You call him a racist I've never heard him make a racist statement. I know he's never spoken at a funeral of a kkk'man, Biden has. 

I guess we shall both see the path America wants to follow come November, I hope they choose wisely. Because for me the consequences for Western civilisation are disastrous. 

[johnnybangkok]

14 hours ago, Smigel said:

First of all my congratulations to you for your fiscal success in life. Although perhaps I should tamper that with some consolation for the inner turmoil you are obviously experiencing. 

To have come from humble beginnings with four other siblings cannot have been easy, but equally may have provided you with the drive and determination to make a success of your life. 

Did you actually read my post, because it seems you are under the misapprehension that I am bitter and twisted about my lot in life, and the fact that I have not made large amounts of money. 

I repeat, I chose a career in a public service that doesn't offer financial riches, but does give me a tremendous amount of job satisfaction and self esteem. Again I am not motivated by money. I can honestly say it was a pleasure to go to work. 

My mantra has always been if you enjoy what you do, you never work a day in your life. 

What are these racial, sexual and social barriers you speak of, that are holding people back from finding work. 

Frankly, in these days of equal opportunity and affirmative action, there has never been a better time for all parts of society to find employment. I find that a ridiculous statement. 

Just because I have posted a couple of opinions that defend Trump, attack democrats, and proffer Conservative traits, it doesn't mean I staunchly support Boris Johnson and the so called Conservative party, far from it. 

The contempt I hold for most politicians is limitless. The vast majority of them are nothing but a bunch of self serving, snouts in the trough, traitorous, liars. 

That would sell their own grandmother in a heartbeat. 

I don't buy into the orange man bad mantra, constantly churned out and whipped into a frenzy by the corrupt main stream media from day one of his nomination, let alone presidency. 

The election of Trump put a hell of a lot of self interest noses out of joint, which is why a lot of republicans are also against him. 

No president in history has had to put up with the utter hatred and lack of co-operation and respect that he has. 

Still he never gives an inch, he sticks to his guns and keeps going, and he will not be cowed by the corrupt media. I for one admire him for it. 

You call him a racist I've never heard him make a racist statement. I know he's never spoken at a funeral of a kkk'man, Biden has. 

I guess we shall both see the path America wants to follow come November, I hope they choose wisely. Because for me the consequences for Western civilisation are disastrous. 

We seem to be going around in circles a bit here Smigel as I actually agree witha lot of things you have mentioned but I simply cannot get behind Trump even though he has done a few things that again I agree with; his attempt to bring jobs back to the US is commendable (although trying to prop up dying businesses such as coal isn't) and his stance against China also needed to be done, but as they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day and there is just so much more this man has done that I find utterly contemptable. They are (in no particular order):-

1. Hiring literally crooks rather than 'draining the swamp' as he boasted. So far, 7 of his 'associates' are now convicted felons. How the hell do you get away with that?

2. He defrauded his own charity!! That alone would have got him sacked (especially the UK) but ol' teflon Don managed to get away with that one.

3. Rather than see the BLM movement for what it really was; an opportunity to constructively engage with a disenfranchised part of his country, he instead chose to demonise and antagonise. And for clarity, this isn't including the looters. I see them as a seperate element that righly should be condemned.

4. His handling of the pandemic; he has tried to deny it, minimalise it and ignore it despite every other single western nation taking neccessary steps to contain it. To date that has cost 172,000 American lives and counting. This alone should be enough to secure his resignation (and by the way, Boris has done an equally horrible job). And what's with all the nonsense about face masks? Only Trump could manage to politice such an obvious deterant.

5. His constant Tweeting and getting invloved in matters beneath every other POTUS in the past. His constant childish name calling and the dragging of identity politics to even greater lows. 

6. Just the general chaos he has brought to government. Gutting departments, placing individuals of dubious qualications and allegiances to positions of power and undermining anyone who he see as not on his side. He is devicive not inclusive.

7. His tendancy to cosy up to dictators and depots at the expense of his own security forces and long standing US allies. 

 

And finally, I'm not alone in my thoughts. He has been openly crticised by pretty much everyone who has been unfortunate to work with/for him to include Rex Tillerson calling him a 'moron' who "doesn't like to read, doesn't read briefing reports, doesn't like to get into the details of a lot of things", Bolton accused him of 'inconsistent, scattershot decision-making process,” Mattis said '"the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people." Kelly said '"There is a concern, I think an awful big concern, that the partisanship has gotten out of hand, the tribal thing has gotten out of hand," Scaramucci said '"For the last 3 years I have fully supported this President, however recently he has said things that divide the country in a way that is unacceptable. So I didn't pass the 100% litmus test. Eventually he turns on everyone and soon it will be you and then the entire country."

 

All of these people openly crticising Trump just cannot be a coincidence and to be honest, it's all very believable as we see it daily on every news channel available (just in case you want to pull the fake news MSM card). I genuinely believe this man is the worst POTUS to have ever occupied the role and if not defeated in November will plunge America into 4 more years of chaos, identity politics and division. However not being American, my main concern is his absolute disdain for established alliances and Americas position at the head of the world table. He's handing influence to both China and Russia and that does not bode well for the world in general. And also he's a science/climate change sceptic who would rather back conspiracy theories than real science.

 

All in all, I think the cons vastly outweigh the pros. 

[Tippaporn]

16 hours ago, Smigel said:

First of all my congratulations to you for your fiscal success in life. Although perhaps I should tamper that with some consolation for the inner turmoil you are obviously experiencing. 

To have come from humble beginnings with four other siblings cannot have been easy, but equally may have provided you with the drive and determination to make a success of your life. 

Did you actually read my post, because it seems you are under the misapprehension that I am bitter and twisted about my lot in life, and the fact that I have not made large amounts of money. 

I repeat, I chose a career in a public service that doesn't offer financial riches, but does give me a tremendous amount of job satisfaction and self esteem. Again I am not motivated by money. I can honestly say it was a pleasure to go to work. 

My mantra has always been if you enjoy what you do, you never work a day in your life. 

What are these racial, sexual and social barriers you speak of, that are holding people back from finding work. 

Frankly, in these days of equal opportunity and affirmative action, there has never been a better time for all parts of society to find employment. I find that a ridiculous statement. 

Just because I have posted a couple of opinions that defend Trump, attack democrats, and proffer Conservative traits, it doesn't mean I staunchly support Boris Johnson and the so called Conservative party, far from it. 

The contempt I hold for most politicians is limitless. The vast majority of them are nothing but a bunch of self serving, snouts in the trough, traitorous, liars. 

That would sell their own grandmother in a heartbeat. 

I don't buy into the orange man bad mantra, constantly churned out and whipped into a frenzy by the corrupt main stream media from day one of his nomination, let alone presidency. 

The election of Trump put a hell of a lot of self interest noses out of joint, which is why a lot of republicans are also against him. 

No president in history has had to put up with the utter hatred and lack of co-operation and respect that he has. 

Still he never gives an inch, he sticks to his guns and keeps going, and he will not be cowed by the corrupt media. I for one admire him for it. 

You call him a racist I've never heard him make a racist statement. I know he's never spoken at a funeral of a kkk'man, Biden has. 

I guess we shall both see the path America wants to follow come November, I hope they choose wisely. Because for me the consequences for Western civilisation are disastrous. 

Encore!  Encore!  Brilliantly expressed!  

[rcummings]

20 hours ago, Smigel said:

The election of Trump put a hell of a lot of self interest noses out of joint, which is why a lot of republicans are also against him. 

What don't you get about the fact that Trump pushed for huge tax breaks for the wealthy and powerful?

What don't you understand about the fact that he has left environmental regulation to the tender mercies of the oil and gas lobbyists?

Do you understand the the prosecution of financial crimes is way down under the Trump administration?

So whatever self-interest noses got bent out of joint, it wasn't those of the ruling class.

 

[Smigel]

2 hours ago, rcummings said:

What don't you get about the fact that Trump pushed for huge tax breaks for the wealthy and powerful?

What don't you understand about the fact that he has left environmental regulation to the tender mercies of the oil and gas lobbyists?

Do you understand the the prosecution of financial crimes is way down under the Trump administration?

So whatever self-interest noses got bent out of joint, it wasn't those of the ruling class.

 

Point 1). Huge tax breaks for the wealthy and powerful. 

Trumps tax cuts and jobs act signed Dec 2017, was in his words an attempt to provide tax cuts across the board. But especially to lower corporation tax in an attempt to stimulate the economy, create growth and cut or wipe out the deficit. 

On the lower end of the scale, single filers had their % of tax, remain at 10% or the next two tiers cut 3% to 12% up to 38,700 usd and 22% up to 82500 usd respectively. 

For those earning over 500000 usd their rate was cut by 2:6% to 37%. Those earning over 200000 usd their rate remained at 35%.

The corporate tax rate was reduced  14% from 35% to 21%.

Estate tax exemption was doubled from 5:49 million usd to 11:8 million usd. 

That is a mere snippet of the major tax reform that Trump signed into law, and yes I'm aware that the personal rates are for 5 years, before returning to existing rates. But they can also be extended, this is after all a stimulus package. 

Now I'm by no means a financial genius, but even to my feeble brain, I can work out that the more tax you pay, the more you will save in an across the board single rate payer tax cut of around 3%.

But a 14% corporation tax cut, would surely result in an investment or growth of that company. Or is it your contention that the ceo's, directors, and chairman of those companies are all mates of Trump and are going to trouser that money. 

What do you think those at the top of the tree do with the money that they keep, rather than lose to the irs, hide it under the mattress or spend it, thereby creating stimulus to the economy. 

Have you ever heard of the trickle down effect.? 

2).Environmental issues. 

The Trump administration has initiated a major change in energy policy for the U. S. again in an attempt to create an economy stimulus, and also make American companies competitive in the global market by recognising the huge disparity trans nationally In energy costs. Particular when compared with China and say Germany, who are much more reliant on fossil fuels, coal and gas. 

Which is why he extricated the US from the Paris climate accord, as it gave an unfair advantage to the likes of China. 

Trumps return to fossil fuel dominance has resulted in the US becoming virtually self sufficient in their energy needs, and cut their reliance on opec. 

I agree there are major concerns regarding the environmental issues on the keystone xl pipeline, with particular concerns in the dakota area, and the impact on Native Indian homelands. 

Trumps return to fossil fuel reliance is a major policy shift from the Obama administrations preference for renewables, may I suggest you check out Michael Moore's documentary planet of the humans. Its an eye opener. 

3) what financial crimes have not been prosecuted under Trump?, and what has that to do with anything.? 

My comment regarding self interest groups, was aimed more at career politicians, and swampers with their noses in the trough, paid big bucks via lobbyists and international interests. 

Have a nice day.! 

[candide]

2 hours ago, Smigel said:

Point 1). Huge tax breaks for the wealthy and powerful. 

Trumps tax cuts and jobs act signed Dec 2017, was in his words an attempt to provide tax cuts across the board. But especially to lower corporation tax in an attempt to stimulate the economy, create growth and cut or wipe out the deficit. 

On the lower end of the scale, single filers had their % of tax, remain at 10% or the next two tiers cut 3% to 12% up to 38,700 usd and 22% up to 82500 usd respectively. 

For those earning over 500000 usd their rate was cut by 2:6% to 37%. Those earning over 200000 usd their rate remained at 35%.

The corporate tax rate was reduced  14% from 35% to 21%.

Estate tax exemption was doubled from 5:49 million usd to 11:8 million usd. 

That is a mere snippet of the major tax reform that Trump signed into law, and yes I'm aware that the personal rates are for 5 years, before returning to existing rates. But they can also be extended, this is after all a stimulus package. 

Now I'm by no means a financial genius, but even to my feeble brain, I can work out that the more tax you pay, the more you will save in an across the board single rate payer tax cut of around 3%.

But a 14% corporation tax cut, would surely result in an investment or growth of that company. Or is it your contention that the ceo's, directors, and chairman of those companies are all mates of Trump and are going to trouser that money. 

What do you think those at the top of the tree do with the money that they keep, rather than lose to the irs, hide it under the mattress or spend it, thereby creating stimulus to the economy. 

Have you ever heard of the trickle down effect.? 

2).Environmental issues. 

The Trump administration has initiated a major change in energy policy for the U. S. again in an attempt to create an economy stimulus, and also make American companies competitive in the global market by recognising the huge disparity trans nationally In energy costs. Particular when compared with China and say Germany, who are much more reliant on fossil fuels, coal and gas. 

Which is why he extricated the US from the Paris climate accord, as it gave an unfair advantage to the likes of China. 

Trumps return to fossil fuel dominance has resulted in the US becoming virtually self sufficient in their energy needs, and cut their reliance on opec. 

I agree there are major concerns regarding the environmental issues on the keystone xl pipeline, with particular concerns in the dakota area, and the impact on Native Indian homelands. 

Trumps return to fossil fuel reliance is a major policy shift from the Obama administrations preference for renewables, may I suggest you check out Michael Moore's documentary planet of the humans. Its an eye opener. 

3) what financial crimes have not been prosecuted under Trump?, and what has that to do with anything.? 

My comment regarding self interest groups, was aimed more at career politicians, and swampers with their noses in the trough, paid big bucks via lobbyists and international interests. 

Have a nice day.! 

Allow me to comment on point 1

- tax cuts have been financed by extra deficit and debt. While it makes sense to do that in order to recover from a crisis it doesn't after several years a sustained growth and with no crisis in sight. Taxpayers will have to pay it back some day.

- you make a relevant comment about the need for investment. The problem is that, unlike in some other countries, Trump did not link tax cuts with investment. The outcome was that companies bought back their shares with this money in order to increase their price.

https://apnews.com/438fae12f9204b1fbd8e8b1985ae554f

Actually, even Trump found out and got angry at it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump-buybacks/trump-slams-companies-for-using-u-s-tax-credit-to-buy-back-stocks-idUSKBN2173HY

Double benefit for the rich: they get tax cuts and the value of their stocks and stock options increase, without needing to do anything for the economy. Actually it just created an artificial bulb which bursts at the first occasion.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

1. Hiring literally crooks rather than 'draining the swamp' as he boasted. So far, 7 of his 'associates' are now convicted felons. How the hell do you get away with that?

2. He defrauded his own charity!! That alone would have got him sacked (especially the UK) but ol' teflon Don managed to get away with that one.

3. Rather than see the BLM movement for what it really was; an opportunity to constructively engage with a disenfranchised part of his country, he instead chose to demonise and antagonise. And for clarity, this isn't including the looters. I see them as a seperate element that righly should be condemned.

4. His handling of the pandemic; he has tried to deny it, minimalise it and ignore it despite every other single western nation taking neccessary steps to contain it. To date that has cost 172,000 American lives and counting. This alone should be enough to secure his resignation (and by the way, Boris has done an equally horrible job). And what's with all the nonsense about face masks? Only Trump could manage to politice such an obvious deterant.

5. His constant Tweeting and getting invloved in matters beneath every other POTUS in the past. His constant childish name calling and the dragging of identity politics to even greater lows. 

6. Just the general chaos he has brought to government. Gutting departments, placing individuals of dubious qualications and allegiances to positions of power and undermining anyone who he see as not on his side. He is devicive not inclusive.

7. His tendancy to cosy up to dictators and depots at the expense of his own security forces and long standing US allies. 

 

Oh my, and to think that had the Dems put up almost anyone else for POTUS than her they'd be in the White House now and not him.

If one wants to defeat a bad man it does not help to put such a notoriously, IMO, bad person against them. She lost because Middle America was never going to vote for her, and even if they had to hold their noses while doing so voted for the less bad option.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh my, and to think that had the Dems put up almost anyone else for POTUS than her they'd be in the White House now and not him.

If one wants to defeat a bad man it does not help to put such a notoriously, IMO, bad person against them. She lost because Middle America was never going to vote for her, and even if they had to hold their noses while doing so voted for the less bad option.

So your defense against a crook is 'she is not a nice person'.

[Scott]

Troll posts reported and removed.  

 

[Sujo]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOl, LOL, LOL.

I'm not defending Trump. I'm pointing out that more states in the US voted against her than for, so she was not an "ideal candidate".

That's what comes from trying to put your BFF into power when anyone with sense could have told them that it wasn't a good idea to put her up for the job.

 

Keep up the deflections though.

Of course you are not defending trump. You are not a trump supporter. ????

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, rcummings said:

What don't you get about the fact that Trump pushed for huge tax breaks for the wealthy and powerful?

What don't you understand about the fact that he has left environmental regulation to the tender mercies of the oil and gas lobbyists?

Do you understand the the prosecution of financial crimes is way down under the Trump administration?

So whatever self-interest noses got bent out of joint, it wasn't those of the ruling class.

 

Given that Trump was of the rich class, did anyone think he'd have done otherwise?

Obama had 8 years to screw the rich, but seems he joined them. Apparently he's hardly short of a dime or three now. Pretty good going for a career politician.

Edited August 20, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[stevenl]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that Trump was of the rich class, did anyone think he'd have done otherwise?

Obama had 8 years to screw the rich, but seems he joined them. Apparently he's hardly short of a dime or three now. Pretty good going for a career politician.

How is Obama getting lots of money for lectures related to Trump's tax breaks for the rich, lack of prosecution for financial crimes and doing away with environmental regulations by Trump?

[johnnybangkok]

9 hours ago, candide said:

Allow me to comment on point 1

- tax cuts have been financed by extra deficit and debt. While it makes sense to do that in order to recover from a crisis it doesn't after several years a sustained growth and with no crisis in sight. Taxpayers will have to pay it back some day.

- you make a relevant comment about the need for investment. The problem is that, unlike in some other countries, Trump did not link tax cuts with investment. The outcome was that companies bought back their shares with this money in order to increase their price.

https://apnews.com/438fae12f9204b1fbd8e8b1985ae554f

Actually, even Trump found out and got angry at it.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-trump-buybacks/trump-slams-companies-for-using-u-s-tax-credit-to-buy-back-stocks-idUSKBN2173HY

Double benefit for the rich: they get tax cuts and the value of their stocks and stock options increase, without needing to do anything for the economy. Actually it just created an artificial bulb which bursts at the first occasion.

Excellent response. You saved me from typing the same.

The idea of 'trickle down economics' has been proven false time and time again; any money large corporations get, if not specifically linked to investment, goes to share buy-backs and inflating their bonuses. This has been proven time and time again. 

Smigel made some good points IF the tax breaks had worked the way they should have but the reality is corporations don't give a hoot about the man on the street and have just said, 'thank you for the massive handout, I can now buy my second yacht'. In the meantime, Trump has managed to add $2 trillion to the national debt at a time of prosperity and a growing economy. There was absolutely no need for that and has been shown to be complete hubris now that the nation is in the grip of Covid, mass unemployment and falling tax revenues. It is conservatively estimated that if given another 4 years, Trump will add ANOTHER $8 trillion to the national debt (https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401) and all this from the party who is supposed to be fiscally conservative.

The end-result is simple: Republican presidents add more to deficits than their Democratic counterparts - https://towardsdatascience.com/which-party-adds-more-to-deficits-a6422c6b00d7

And the harsh reality is the US economy does a lot better with Democrats in the White House than with Republicans. Just one fact should tell you this; Nine of the last 10 recessions have been under Republicans (10 out of 11 if you count this one). Forbes magazine said it best - 'It is simply a fact that since World War II, Democratic presidents have seen 24.4 million more jobs created on their watch—an average of 78.6% more jobs created per year of Democratic administrations—than have Republican presidents. Ditto real GDP growth, 44% higher under Democratic presidents. On the flip side, unemployment has been 18% higher under GOP presidents.'

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/11/07/trump-is-right-about-one-thing-the-economy-does-better-under-the-democrats/#4f9c1d8c6786

 

So tell me again about the GOP being the party best suited to look after the economy.

   

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh my, and to think that had the Dems put up almost anyone else for POTUS than her they'd be in the White House now and not him.

If one wants to defeat a bad man it does not help to put such a notoriously, IMO, bad person against them. She lost because Middle America was never going to vote for her, and even if they had to hold their noses while doing so voted for the less bad option.

Still going on about Hilary I see TBL. It was nearly 4 years ago and I think you should give up the ghost but just for your clarity, there are 4 main reasons Hilarry didn't get the job:-

1. An electoral college that doesn't reward the most votes but encourages gerrymandering and voter supression (GOP favorites) and effectively means the least favorite can get elected (not sour grapes, it is what it is).

2. A highly effective smear campaign that branded her 'Crooked Hilary' without any evidence to back it up and numerous congressional hearings (9 in total) into Benghazi and her charity that proved no wrong doings whatsoever (as oppossed to Trump who was forced to dismantle his charity when fraud was actually proven).

3. A last minute FBI investigation into those damned servers that effectively hammered the last nail in her coffin.

4. Voter apathy that saw black votes decline by 8% and 2.4 million people not vote for a president at all. When you consider some states were won by literally thousands, this drop became massively significent.

 

But Hilary isn't the topic now; it's all about Biden and Harris and with a new revitalised populace eager to get voting we should see a different election. If covid and mail-in ballots can be sorted fairly (obviously what Trump is desperately trying not to do), early polls predict a Biden/Harris win and perhaps then, we might finally hear the last of 'but, but Hillary....' 

I won't hold my breath though.

[johnnybangkok]

13 hours ago, Smigel said:

Point 1). Huge tax breaks for the wealthy and powerful. 

Trumps tax cuts and jobs act signed Dec 2017, was in his words an attempt to provide tax cuts across the board. But especially to lower corporation tax in an attempt to stimulate the economy, create growth and cut or wipe out the deficit. 

On the lower end of the scale, single filers had their % of tax, remain at 10% or the next two tiers cut 3% to 12% up to 38,700 usd and 22% up to 82500 usd respectively. 

For those earning over 500000 usd their rate was cut by 2:6% to 37%. Those earning over 200000 usd their rate remained at 35%.

The corporate tax rate was reduced  14% from 35% to 21%.

Estate tax exemption was doubled from 5:49 million usd to 11:8 million usd. 

That is a mere snippet of the major tax reform that Trump signed into law, and yes I'm aware that the personal rates are for 5 years, before returning to existing rates. But they can also be extended, this is after all a stimulus package. 

Now I'm by no means a financial genius, but even to my feeble brain, I can work out that the more tax you pay, the more you will save in an across the board single rate payer tax cut of around 3%.

But a 14% corporation tax cut, would surely result in an investment or growth of that company. Or is it your contention that the ceo's, directors, and chairman of those companies are all mates of Trump and are going to trouser that money. 

What do you think those at the top of the tree do with the money that they keep, rather than lose to the irs, hide it under the mattress or spend it, thereby creating stimulus to the economy. 

Have you ever heard of the trickle down effect.? 

2).Environmental issues. 

The Trump administration has initiated a major change in energy policy for the U. S. again in an attempt to create an economy stimulus, and also make American companies competitive in the global market by recognising the huge disparity trans nationally In energy costs. Particular when compared with China and say Germany, who are much more reliant on fossil fuels, coal and gas. 

Which is why he extricated the US from the Paris climate accord, as it gave an unfair advantage to the likes of China. 

Trumps return to fossil fuel dominance has resulted in the US becoming virtually self sufficient in their energy needs, and cut their reliance on opec. 

I agree there are major concerns regarding the environmental issues on the keystone xl pipeline, with particular concerns in the dakota area, and the impact on Native Indian homelands. 

Trumps return to fossil fuel reliance is a major policy shift from the Obama administrations preference for renewables, may I suggest you check out Michael Moore's documentary planet of the humans. Its an eye opener. 

3) what financial crimes have not been prosecuted under Trump?, and what has that to do with anything.? 

My comment regarding self interest groups, was aimed more at career politicians, and swampers with their noses in the trough, paid big bucks via lobbyists and international interests. 

Have a nice day.! 

Although I disagree with most of what you have said here Smigel (and mine and other posts have addressed those points) may I just commend you on actually bring facts and policy to this debate. Too often Trump fans are all about the emotions, name calling and complete conspracy theories so it's refreshing to see someone at least try to argue their point with facts and figures.

We may disagree on the details, but unlike most Trump fans, at least you've got some details. Other Trump fans would do well to take a page out of your book.   

[MaxYakov]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Although I disagree with most of what you have said here Smigel (and mine and other posts have addressed those points) may I just commend you on actually bring facts and policy to this debate. Too often Trump fans are all about the emotions, name calling and complete conspracy theories so it's refreshing to see someone at least try to argue their point with facts and figures.

We may disagree on the details, but unlike most Trump fans, at least you've got some details. Other Trump fans would do well to take a page out of your book.   

Errr... "Trump fans"? Is that the way you (and probably most others) look at the holder of the office of POTUS? It's some kind of specious, Hollywood style popularity contest?

 

If I had my way, those portraits of the smiling US Presidents would be summarily removed from Federal buildings and replaced with framed copies of the US Constitution, in entirety. It would be a step in the right direction from replacing the cult of personality with the rule of law and save the US taxpayer a lot money and remind Federal workers and US citizens as as well that the rule of law should overarch the cults of personality, IMHO. Cults of personality are characteristic of tyrannies and dictatorships worldwide.

 

This and most elections are not based on producing a meritocracy, a mediocreocracy (aka mediocre democracy) instead.

 

EoR.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2020 by MaxYakov

[johnnybangkok]

36 minutes ago, MaxYakov said:

Errr... "Trump fans"? Is that the way you (and probably most others) look at the holder of the office of POTUS? It's some kind of specious, Hollywood style popularity contest?

 

If I had my way, those portraits of the smiling US Presidents would be summarily removed from Federal buildings and replaced with framed copies of the US Constitution, in entirety. It would be a step in the right direction from replacing the cult of personality with the rule of law and save the US taxpayer a lot money and remind Federal workers and US citizens as as well that the rule of law should overarch the cults of personality, IMHO. Cults of personality are characteristic of tyrannies and dictatorships worldwide.

 

This and most elections are not based on producing a meritocracy, a mediocreocracy (aka mediocre democracy) instead.

 

EoR.

 

 

We call them 'Trump fans because the moderator won't allow us to call them what we really want to call them but you are right, they are more akin to being in a cult because the complete and utter devotion can only be explained when comparting to a cult.

[johnnybangkok]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that Trump was of the rich class, did anyone think he'd have done otherwise?

Obama had 8 years to screw the rich, but seems he joined them. Apparently he's hardly short of a dime or three now. Pretty good going for a career politician.

Excuse, excuse, excuse.

Deflection, deflection, deflection.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

 

3 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Excellent response. You saved me from typing the same.

The idea of 'trickle down economics' has been proven false time and time again; any money large corporations get, if not specifically linked to investment, goes to share buy-backs and inflating their bonuses. This has been proven time and time again. 

Smigel made some good points IF the tax breaks had worked the way they should have but the reality is corporations don't give a hoot about the man on the street and have just said, 'thank you for the massive handout, I can now buy my second yacht'. 

 

So tell me again about the GOP being the party best suited to look after the economy.

   snip

Smigel certainly puts forward coherent arguments from the Trump side which is refreshing to say the least. However  'trickle down economics' has been a joke for a long time. Margaret Thatcher was devoted to it and widened the wealth gap considerably whilst destroying UK manufacturing PLC.

 

Some words from part of a song I wrote and recorded a while back are relevant. (My copyright)

 

Verse

I met a young man from a far off country

He told me they call it the land of the free

I said I wonder why, explain that to me

He said,  there, I can be anyone, I want to be

 

For I can have all that money can bring 

I'll be rich as a lord and proud as a king

And if I don't make it big on the first time around

I'll be fine 'cause the wealth will come trickling down.

 

Chorus

Trickle down, Trickle down,

From the rich at the top to the poor all around,

Trickle down, trickle down,

If you really believe that you must be a clown. 

[rcummings]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you can't work that out for yourself I'm not going to educate you. I'm sure you can use google.

When someone hasn't got a good answer, they tell people to go look it up. You can't even provide a link.