Outlet keeps bricking electronics

[Hal65]

1. Yesterday I woke up to find my wireless earphones were dead. Further charging did nothing.

 

2. Today I found my phone, charger plugged into the same outlet, has also been bricked.

 

3. I posted here last month about how my apartment electric bill surged by 1,400 last mont (average electric bill was 1,400 baht, last month 2,800 baht with no change in use).

 

I don't know if that 3rd point connects to the first two. But I wanted to include it as it might. Does anyone know what this could mean?

 

Can an outlet be "over-currented" and push out more power than it's supposed to? That would explain the destroyed electronics and high bill together. But again, I'm not sure if it's that simple.

 

 

[RichCor]

58 minutes ago, Hal65 said:

Can an outlet be "over-currented" and push out more power than it's supposed to? That would explain the destroyed electronics and high bill together. But again, I'm not sure if it's that simple.

 

Gennerally a power outlet is a power outlet is a power outlet. All the outlets wired to the same mains wiring should be the same (have the same effect when used).

 

If the consumer unit or individual outlet is wired faulty, that might explain issues ...but bricking devices usually isn't one of them.

 

Over-voltage an Under-voltage is the usual culprit with bricked electronics.  Suggest you by a consumer-friendly plug-in test device/meter to see what your power is doing.   

[Davedub]

The Thai electricity supply can often have voltage spikes that can cause damage to electronics. I have a voltage regulator between my mains outlet and more expensive computing equipment at my office for this reason. I also had a (relatively cheap) surge protector fitted into the fusebox for the same reason.

 

Any well qualified and experienced electrician would be able to advise you on this better than I.

[Crossy]

Ask the landlord to get his "man" with a meter to verify the voltage at your outlets. It should be 220V +-10% or so.

 

Anything over 240V could cause issues with low-cost electronics.

 

[Peterw42]

OP, it sounds more like a faulty plug-pack transformers or outlet, rather than faulty devices.

Do the devices charge or power up when plugged into a different plug pack or outlet.

 

A surge etc would effect all outlets, not just one, and in most cases just damage the plug-pack. Most of the time, a device downstream from a transformer has a level of protection as the transformer self destructs.

 

Bricked, although not a technical term, usually refers to a firmware/software problem (device powers on but wont load its operating system). 

 

You probably need to follow a process of elimination, start with a known good outlet, use a know good plug-pack etc.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Peterw42

[Bender Rodriguez]

19 hours ago, Hal65 said:

Can an outlet be "over-currented" and push out more power than it's supposed to? That would explain the destroyed electronics and high bill together. But again, I'm not sure if it's that simple.

sure it can, and that could kill all appliances

 

the 10+ million baht home I live in, has get me shocked on some occasions touching my computer, the oven, etc...

 

because of a cheap ass electrical wannabe that wired all the houses here

[CygnusX1]

An uninterruptible power supply (UPS) is a good idea to protect expensive electronics. It’s essentially a battery that continues to provide power for a few minutes when mains power fails, and also provides a constant voltage and protects from power surges. I have  my OLED TV and computer plugged into a UPS. They’re not all that expensive.

[sandyf]

If it is just one outlet, then there is the possibility of a bad connection in the outlet. This can cause the connections to get hot when used and pass the heat on to the device.

A phone charger has a small rectifying circuit and if one of the components got too hot it could very easily fail.

Not sure what you mean about your wireless earphones, how were they connected to the outlet, on charge?

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

sure it can, and that could kill all appliances

 

No such thing as "over currented"

[ifmu]

19 hours ago, RichCor said:

 

snip

 

If the consumer unit or individual outlet is wired faulty, that might explain issues ...but bricking devices usually isn't one of them.

 

Over-voltage an Under-voltage is the usual culprit with bricked electronics.  Suggest you by a consumer-friendly plug-in test device/meter to see what your power is doing.   

hi  what kind of plugin test device do you rec ?  also i have a desktop pc that gives me a mild shock when i touch bare metal   ground wire system probably   also  the OP can get a ups .. 

[ifmu]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

No such thing as "over currented"

TIT  anything can and will happen ..  i have read numerous posts from people that have monitored and recorded the voltage coming into the house  .. lets change the terminoligy  electric voltage  surges

 

one house i rented .. brand new .. when it stormed outside it would blow the circuit breakers in house ...  .. no other info  .. good luck on yours 

[AAArdvark]

I=V/R.  If there was no such thing as over current, there would be no need for circuit breakers.  If you are having voltage spikes you need a surge protector.  Check your outlet to see if the neutral wire is not really a ground/earth wire.  Neutral to ground/earth should be 0.

[khunjeff]

Normally a bad electrical surge would only harm the charger, not the device being charged. Are there signs of damage (scorch marks, deformed plastic) on either the chargers or devices? Do they operate when plugged into other outlets? Will the devices start charging if you use a different charger and a different outlet?

[RichCor]

3 hours ago, ifmu said:

22 hours ago, RichCor said:

Suggest you by a consumer-friendly plug-in test device/meter to see what your power is doing.

hi  what kind of plugin test device do you rec ?  [...]

While someone who's knowledgeable in the ways of using a digital multimeter can manually perform the tests, sticking metal probs into sockets isn't everyone's cup of tea. A more consumer-friendly set of devices might help.

 

200-300 thb AC Socket Tester:  Lazada Digital Display Socket Detector

 

 

  

 

* Please check the product description carefully to verify the socket tester voltage range (220-250v) and a 3-pin plug type is recommended for full earth-ground test usability

 

 

 

4 hours ago, ifmu said:

also i have a desktop pc that gives me a mild shock when i touch bare metal   ground wire system probably

Yes, mild shocks or tingles are a good indication your PC or other electrical appliance's 3-pin electrical socket isn't properly grounded. 

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

sure it can, and that could kill all appliances

 

the 10+ million baht home I live in, has get me shocked on some occasions touching my computer, the oven, etc...

 

because of a cheap ass electrical wannabe that wired all the houses here

The current is depending on the circuit breaker. If you have a 10A breaker it should trip if there's a spike in current. That's the whole purpose with an automatic circuit breaker or the old fashioned ceramic fuse. If you get "shocked" by touching your microwave it's possibly because it's not connected to earth. You can buy microwaves or even fridges here with a 2 pin plug, which is totally forbidden in the western world if the appliance has a metal cover. If you buy a rice cooker from Sharp it has a 2 pin plug, but a rice cooker from let's say Electrolux always has a 3 pin US plug. I had a very good Samsung combination microwave with metal cover. It had a 2 pin plug. Go figure. 

[Metropolitian]

23 minutes ago, RichCor said:

While someone who's knowledgeable in the ways of using a digital multimeter can manually perform the tests, sticking metal probs into sockets isn't everyone's cup of tea. A more consumer-friendly set of devices might help.

 

200-300 thb AC Socket Tester:  Lazada Digital Display Socket Detector

 

 

  

 

* Please check the product description carefully to verify the socket tester voltage range (220-250v) and a 3-pin plug type is recommended for full earth-ground test usability

 

 

 

Yes, mild shocks or tingles are a good indication your PC or other electrical appliance's 3-pin electrical socket isn't properly grounded. 

Also keep in mind that those with the US plugs are made for 110V and GFCI's with leak current >5mA

I have one here, they works fine as indicator.

 

But the test button do not work for the RCBO's with 30mA fixed settings.

The test leak current is too low. (around 3mA here on 230V)

 

Use the US plug verison just for the voltage / L-N-E wiring check.

 

Get the UK version if you also want to check earthing and RCBO functions , with an DIY-d adapter (or real 3 wired world adapter) or extension sockets that accepts UK plug and is wired with 3 wires to an UK/Thai plug.

 

Only for the advanced:

Although one who is handy and has the know-how, can open the (US plug version) device and replace the resistors inside like I did.

Mine with US plug has now earth leak current around 40mA when button pressed which is good to trip the RCBO.

 

 

 

[Metropolitian]

5 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Get the UK version if you also want to check earthing and RCBO functions , with an DIY-d adapter (or real 3 wired world adapter) or extension sockets that accepts UK plug and is wired with 3 wires to an UK US/Thai plug.

  This one, NO.

 

  It has no earth-prong

 

  This outlet is ok, but not all extension cords/sockets actually has all three prongs connected.

Make sure your does and has all 3 holes connected with the corresponding prongs on the plug.

 

 

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, ifmu said:

TIT  anything can and will happen ..  i have read numerous posts from people that have monitored and recorded the voltage coming into the house  .. lets change the terminoligy  electric voltage  surges

 

one house i rented .. brand new .. when it stormed outside it would blow the circuit breakers in house ...  .. no other info  .. good luck on yours 

I got interrupted by immigration when posting. There is no such thing as over current. Current and voltage are not the same.

The current is determined by the resistance across the outlet, the voltage can be higher than it should be without any current being drawn

ELCB type circuit breakers operate on earth leakage and it is not uncommon for that to increase in damp weather due to tracking from insulation breakdown. Back in the old days we used to spray the plug leads to avoid tracking.

[sandyf]

9 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Bricked, although not a technical term, usually refers to a firmware/software problem (device powers on but wont load its operating system). 

It's as good a term as any when you get a belt from 450v DC.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Metropolitian said:

Get the UK version if you also want to check earthing and RCBO functions , with an DIY-d adapter (or real 3 wired world adapter) or extension sockets that accepts UK plug and is wired with 3 wires to an UK/Thai plug.

 

Be aware that L and N are transposed between the Thai and UK plug so one of the simple adaptors will show incorrect polarity and may not trip the RCD.

 

If you can find one of the Schuko / Thai adaptors you can get the EU plug tester and put it in the right way round to show correctly.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

You can buy microwaves or even fridges here with a 2 pin plug, which is totally forbidden in the western world if the appliance has a metal cover.

Please get your facts correct. There is no requirement for the case to be non conducive. A metal case item can be double insulated. The U.K. electrical regulations state

Quote

The outer case of the equipment need not be made of insulating material; if protected by double insulation, a metal case will not present any danger. It must never be connected with earth, so connecting leads are two-core, having no protective conductor.

So changing the cable to a 3 core one with the earth to the case is specifically prohibited.

 

That does not mean that the fridge you buy in Thailand should not have a 3 core cable if it is not double insulated.

Edited August 14, 2020 by sometimewoodworker

[Metropolitian]

52 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

Be aware that L and N are transposed between the Thai and UK plug so one of the simple adaptors will show incorrect polarity and may not trip the RCD.

Absolutely right!

 

An error on my side *facepalming*

I'm used to have the earth prong on top here instead of bottom as the 'US standard'.

Which is more convenient to use the TIS plugs here , like the washing machine is. And so are the UPS'ses.

With that, earth prong on top, the live is left. and UK live is on the right side.

I used to jam some BS standard sockets in The Gambia and got some from Malaysia to use here.

 

Thanks for the correction, it's an important one. ????

 

52 minutes ago, Crossy said:

If you can find one of the Schuko / Thai adaptors you can get the EU plug tester and put it in the right way round to show correctly.

Good suggestion. Haven't seen them much, Schuko to US plug with the earth prong.

 

 

A solution is by using an DPDT switch which flips around the L and N wire and label it " UK mode / US(with cheap adapter) mode " ????

The one settings for in Malaysia/UK/Gambia/ BS sockets in your home in Thailand and the other setting when using the tester with the UK-US adapter found everywhere so you can test.. everywhere.

 

-------------

 

The same thing, as the UK, the Australian plug is not par with the US / Thai plug.

So someone thinking to get the Australian version to use with a simple adapter; a brief warning, it's 'UK'. ????

Earth prong down, and live on the left.

 

US / Thai : Earth prong down, live on the right. Or earth prong up, live on the left.

 

Standard the Habotest device, as member RichCor suggested, the US plug version comes with the earth prong down.

It's not easy to have it turned around, even by flipping the cover as the PCB with led and display only fits in one way.

 

A while ago, two years I think, I contacted the Habo factory, or their clones, in China to suggest they put the European hardware in the US plug casing. They thanked me for the suggestion and passed it on and even got a reply;They said, Thai customer ordering the US plug version or the UK and they never heard any complains..

A few months later saw new 'Thai versions' on the market, with the cover in Thai language and US plug. Yes even RCD test on 30mA.

Only for sale from Thai suppliers.

 

[RichCor]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

If you can find one of the Schuko / Thai adaptors you can get the EU plug tester and put it in the right way round to show correctly.

 

Looks like the Habotest HT106D (EU RCD-30ma) / KKMoon KKM5 (EU RCD-30ma version) 

[make sure the test is for RDC 30ma and not CGFI 5ma] 

 

Voltage: 48V-250V 45-65Hz
RCD test: >30mA
RCD working voltage: 220V±20V
Voltage measurement: 48V~250V / 45~65Hz

 

Used with a simplified Schuko adapter:

 

 

[The Theory]

Check the voltage of the outlet, but keep in mind that particular outlet cold cause lots of constant "sparks" after anything has plugged into it. That could kill devices that are plugged in to. Perhaps the outlet needs to be replaced, but it's not limited to that particular outlet (the problem could be caused by the outlet before and the connecting wires between).

[tpthai2]

A very good piece to have. Always go deep on LAZADA.

LAZADA:

Local Thai price:

 

Display Socket Detector Portable Circuit Polarity Voltage Tester Wall Plug Breaker Finder RCD Test

฿1,148.00

 

 

LAZADA:  China Price.

KKmoon KKM5 Digital Display Socket Detector Portable Circuit Polarity Voltage Tester Wall Plug Breaker Finder RCD Test

฿182.00

 

[Metropolitian]

1 hour ago, tpthai2 said:

 

Local Thai price:

 

Display Socket Detector Portable Circuit Polarity Voltage Tester Wall Plug Breaker Finder RCD Test

฿1,148.00

 

 

" Test zero Fire Ground Wire "

And led status , only the first of the three led burns = 'correct'  -and- 'open ground'

 

Yep, that is the version for the Thai market ????

 

 

I would go for the 'china price' version if I was you

 

This is the one I am using here,

I went for the HT106B which has the US plug with that but originally the RCD/RCBO test (on this version: GFCI test, 5mA) button won't work here.

[Metropolitian]

Pulling the train back on the rails..

On 8/13/2020 at 2:22 PM, Hal65 said:

1. Yesterday I woke up to find my wireless earphones were dead. Further charging did nothing.

 

2. Today I found my phone, charger plugged into the same outlet, has also been bricked.

 

3. I posted here last month about how my apartment electric bill surged by 1,400 last mont (average electric bill was 1,400 baht, last month 2,800 baht with no change in use).

 

I don't know if that 3rd point connects to the first two. But I wanted to include it as it might. Does anyone know what this could mean?

 

 

Can an outlet be "over-currented" and push out more power than it's supposed to? That would explain the destroyed electronics and high bill together. But again, I'm not sure if it's that simple.

 

It could be coincidental that the earphones batteries went flat out and so was the phone.

 

But I would like to know about your point 2. , do you mean that the phone doesn't open, thus bricked?   Have you tried to charge the earphones and the phone at another outlet? Maybe both were just not charged at all at that socket.

 

I have met some sockets that were 'working' but when I left the adapters in there overnight, they moved a little bit due to the weight of the bungling cables and they lost contact and I found the phones empty in the morning but I was very sure I saw the 'charge' icon in the screen when I connected them.

 

Bad contact in the socket, happens easily here in Thailand as we use both flat and round prongs.

 

 

If they are really broken, and you are not able to charge them.

Then it is possibly damaged by spikes.

Spikes can occur when there are bad/loose contacts in the outlets, or on the feed to the outlet.

 

One example that can damage devices: in a junction box between the customer unit and the outlets there is a bad connection. And there are induction (transformers, pumps, ..) devices connected to the outlets/same wiring. Sudden and repeated connection and disconnection and the field in the transformers would collapse and the feedback has nowhere to go, except for other devices on other outlets.. damaging them.

Another example: Bad contact between outlet and prongs causing resistance which will heat up the prongs and contacts and damage the internals of the adapter. Also some devices (switched) try to compensate the voltage loss by using more currents and this has adverse causes like more heating and sudden current inrush when the contacts are 'better' (arcing, expansion, ..)

 

Have you tried other outlets ?

[RichCor]

2 hours ago, tpthai2 said:

LAZADA:  China Price.

With Lazada, I've found it's sometimes worth it to search the site 6 ways to Sunday (if you don't want to be caught out overpaying +700 baht on a 300 baht item).

 

Apparently Lazada also Habotest HT106T is a "Thai" version for 299 thb

current trip at 30 mA - plug plug is a US type - the product has 3 colors: blue, yellow, black - printed text available in both Thai OR English language

 

 

 

...also found this little item, but as it's a "UK" item using plastic plug adapters (L/N pins reversed?) I don't think it's really usable for us here in Thailand:

 

Lazada,  Multifunction Socket Outlet RCD GFCI Test And BSIDE Voltage Detector  364 baht

 

[RichCor]

11 minutes ago, Metropolitian said:

Bad contact in the socket, happens easily here in Thailand as we use both flat and round prongs.

 

I've seen multiple instances here in asia where power outlet socket metal contacts become corroded or rusted so bad that anything plugged into them gets served unstable power (varying resistance and arcing) and cause issues for devices that really need stable voltage.

Loose wire connections anywhere along the power run can have similar effect (and be a potential fire hazard). 

[Hal65]

To answer the earlier question, I need to plug my wireless earphones into a mini USB charger to recharge it.

 

Quote

Are there signs of damage (scorch marks, deformed plastic) on either the chargers or devices? Do they operate when plugged into other outlets? Will the devices start charging if you use a different charger and a different outlet?

I had to replace a scorched power strip in my kitchen a couple months ago.

 

In the past my laptop charger was destroyed. So I guess this is indeed a chronic issue now that I think about it.

 

Yesterday i replaced my cheap Thai power strip with one rated for 10A or 2,500W. It's not a UPS, but I hope it will also be safe.

 

I have 4 of these higher rated strips around the apartment now. Time will tell if they protect my stuff or not. My apartment rent is cheap for the area but not if I have to keep replacing eletrical items.