The week that was in Thailand news: Thailand is good for your health

[rooster59]

The week that was in Thailand news: Thailand is good for your health

 

 

Living in Thailand can feel like you’re walking a health and safety tightrope at times. Danger seems to lurk at every turn whether it is the perilous roads, the dangerous seas, and poor adherence to safety regulations, even if they exist at all. There is the potential to contract all manner of diseases from poor food and infected ice. Public hygiene can be lacking. Then there is the potential to fall victim to violent crime including snatch theft, online scams and gun violence.
 
While the kingdom is hardly unique in this regard, Thailand has its own particular problems. Sometimes people could be forgiven for wanting to stay home and avoid all that potential danger.
 
Even though we are often told that most accidents occur at home!
 
Fortunately, the country is blessed with an excellent health care system from the grass roots rural doctors, through its pharmacists up to its swanky 5-star city hospitals. The standard of doctors and nurses and ancillary staff is top notch. This Rooster has learnt from 35 years of widespread experience of all levels of the healthcare service. I know many readers will think I have gone troppo and donned my rose-tinted specs. I am not apologizing for this; I’m writing honestly about what I have seen.
 
Everyone can point to a bad health or hospital experience and I have had several. After all, in what field of life is everything perfect? Waiting at government hospitals can be a chore.
 
But these occasional negatives should not discolor an overall impression. In fact, my experience was so positive that when I retired from teaching in 2013, I considered going into a new career promoting medical tourism, especially dentistry. I felt confident that my spiel to a potential tourist would be believed as it would come from the heart and not from the pocketbook.
 
My Sunday sermon comes after a particularly positive experience this week. A doctor at a good Bangkok hospital had determined that I needed surgery to bypass a blockage in my tear ducts. It looked set to cost me a small fortune as I don’t believe in insurance and have nearly always paid in hard cash for any medical treatment. Her diagnosis proved to be incorrect but she was the first to the sense of a second opinion.
 
I thus found myself in the private surgery of one of Thailand’s leading eye surgeons who normally practices at Bumrungrad. This man listened at length to my symptoms without interrupting. He said I wouldn’t need surgery and then using high tech gadgetry showed me why. He spent an hour with me despite having a very busy surgery and I was charged 900 baht. I still have some serious problems that need addressing but working together with the doctor I am confident they can be overcome.
 
When I wai-ed this man at the end of the consultation there were tears in my eyes. Not from the condition but from the sheer respect for a dedicated professional in the field who had treated me as an individual, not a number.
 
My regular doctor who I see once a year for various tests and checks is another dedicated and likeable individual. He supports Manchester City so he’s been pretty happy in recent years. He too has listened to me and allowed me defer treatment and medication as I tried to work through issues on my own. When consequences were unavoidable, he told me so. His honesty, reassurance and good humor means he is more like a member of my family. I take my kids to see him and pay respects on auspicious occasions.
 
My earliest brush with doctors was with an Englishman in Sukhumvit Road, Bangkok, who specialized in diseases acquired from ladies at Patpong and Soi Cowboy. Dr Dick – real name Dickson – set the scene for years to follow. On an extended trip I made to Rio de Janeiro a friend sent me a picture of Dr Dickson with his new yacht. The inference was that I had paid for the vessel in my myriad visits. The excellent work of Dr Mechai Viravaidya in family planning and HIV/AIDS work followed in the 1980s.
 
He later gave his name to the Thai word for a prophylactic and opened a chain of restaurants called Cabbages and Condoms. I met him years later at my school where he inspired our pupils after setting up his own ground breaking educational center for young people up country.
 
In 1987 I spent four days in hospital after my liver nearly burst from complications from amoebic dysentery. While it was poor medical practice at a cheap clinic and my own stupidity that led to my nearly dying, the actions of the staff at St Louis hospital saved my life. Even if they did wheel me to accounts before the ward.
 
In almost twenty surgeries to remove ingrowing toenails I have been to hospitals everywhere. I once had the grisly and painful operation done at Siriraj Hospital. The doctor was perplexed as to why I was holding my back in agony prior to going under the knife. I’d just dropped by 250 Honda in the car park. The toe healed in a few days but it was ages before 10,000 steps a day on my nail-less toes solved the back problem.
 
My experiences of going to hospitals with back problems are that it is better to sort yourself out unless there is something specific.
 
In 2000 during a family trip at Sai Yok waterfall my last words were: “Careful, son, it’s slippery”. After thumping my head against a huge rock I needed eight stitches at a clinic just a few hundred yards away. Just 80 baht. (Two days later I was in Providence, Rhode Island at the US National Scrabble championships with my opponents asking who I was, my head had swollen so much).
 
OK, so it left a bit of a diagonal scar on my forehead. This was later matched in 2008 after I headbutted the very same son in the middle of the sea off Rayong while riding a banana boat. I then banned such rides on school trips.
 
On this occasion it was thirteen stitches and a wife on shore who nearly fainted at the amount of blood. “You cried like a little girl” remember the siblings. I wear my V-shaped scars with a certain pride. In both cases the medical attention was prompt and excellent and delivered with that Thai smile and friendly aplomb.
 
Family members have also had many positive experiences. Mrs R nearly died twice but pulled through. An extraordinary allergic reaction to penicillin left her at death’s door but she somehow pulled through at Chulalongkorn Hospital in 2000. Pneumonia in 2005 showed the brilliant capabilities of the rural health system in Loei. Another close family member received excellent advice and guidance from wonderful staff at Sri Tanya psychiatric hospital in Bangkok. The ill-informed claim that Thailand has no mental health provision. Patent nonsense, though the extent of the service does admittedly need improving.
 
Childbirth services for all my four children have been great experiences. Two were born at Rajavithi Hospital costing me less than the nippers’ first outfits. Two came into the world at Nawamin 9 where the nursing staff and administration were exceptional, considerate and understanding of our special needs.
 
I am extremely grateful to Thailand’s wonderful medical community including the huge number of positive experiences in dental care. I’m also appreciative of the world leading Government Pharmaceutical Organization whose development of drugs has been world class.  It is absolutely no surprise to me that Thailand has passed the first tests of the coronavirus pandemic with flying colors.
 
Those curmudgeons that dismiss the nation’s healthcare professionals and are constantly harping on about their deficiencies are, frankly, beneath contempt. As are those who constantly claim that Thailand lags far behind other countries, usually their own.
 
Whenever I’ve fallen sick in England on holidays I prefer to wait until getting back home to Thailand to see a doctor! No offence to the NHS but somebody needs to fund it rather than just stand outside and clap its doctors and nurses.
 
Many people in another hectic week of news on Thaivisa needed to avail themselves of this excellent Thai medical care. Not least of all two men who were allegedly shot multiple times by a “tessaban” official on Cha-Am beach on Tuesday.
 
Evidence of 14 shots were recovered in what appears to be a disagreement over deckchairs and speedboats. The local official was questioned then bailed for 400,000 baht despite being charged with attempted murder.
 
Kha-Ching (that’s the sound of money not an island off the Phetchaburi coast).
 
One of Laos’ leading drug lords was not so lucky. A life term was upheld by the criminal court of appeal in Bangkok for Xaysana who was the ringleader in a high profile case of international Ya Ba smuggling in 2015. Rooster happened to be in the area of the court doing some banking on Thursday; there were a huge number of TV crews and reporters as well as many special branch police in black cars in the neighborhood.
 
Clearly plod still fears the reach of associates of this particular kingpin. With all the kerfuffle at the court I thought some of the arrested protesters including lawyer Anon Nampa were making an appearance. Until someone said “yaa septit” to my bewildered inquiry.
 
In tourism news – or more precisely the lack of tourism news – the acceptance that 2020 is a write-off and 2021 probably will be too, continued to feature heavily. The tourism minister, the hapless billionaire Pipat, said that five ministries would be working on a plan to welcome visitors come October 1st.
 
The way things are going the tourists will probably have one ministry each.
 
Pipat said that PM Prayut had ditched his travel bubble scheme and he was now working on “twin countries”. It appeared strangely similar. No one mentioned the evil twin China. The reality is no one is coming and domestic tourism is the only hope to get a fraction of the usual revenue.
 
In related news the ministries are working on a tracing app for tourists that the digital economy and society minister described as “necessary”. The forum curmudgeons screamed Big Brother as they always do.
 
While the app would provide an opportunity for more surveillance, I believe it would be welcomed by most tourists not put them off coming to Thailand. As a deputy TAT rep said at a seminar, potential tourists are going to be thinking safety above all else or they will just stay home and take their chances there.
 
The rep said many things but came up with “5 R’s” for Thailand’s “rebound”. Rooster put this in the headline resulting in a mass grabbing for the thesauri as the forum faithful mocked the very idea that a Thai could know anything they didn’t.
 
Pattaya continued to lead the way in both the quirky and the absurd. Mayor Sontaya commissioned a big survey to overhaul the resort’s failing CCTV coverage, more than half of which is broken. A public hearing heard that 80% of Pattaya residents were in favor of a monorail to be built in 2024 that will meet the proposed high-speed train. Clearly, they didn’t survey Thaivisa members, many of whom refuse to believe any initiative will work.
 
They are probably the same people who dismissed the idea of the BTS in Bangkok saying Thais would never get out of their cars.
 
A gold shop owning couple said they had been ripped off by a gang who pawned silver plated in gold claiming it was the 30,000K per baht weight real thing. Don’t ask me how people of Chinese descent are so easily fooled, I’ve never met any. Later a Laotian was arrested by the side of the road.
 
A guy called Somchai who stole 200,000 baht in cash and other goodies from a temple in Huay Yai went on a bender to the bars.
 
A bouncer relieved him of a jewel encrusted knife stolen from the wat then Somchai bought a bargirl a 30,000 baht necklace and had a dolphin of a time. He was arrested by plod flaked out in a barber’s chair next day.
 
To the credit of the forum and Thaivisa’s Facebook arm, posters sided with Somchai rather than the monks. And to the credit of the monks they only appealed half-heartedly to the bargirls to return the proceeds of Somchai’s largesse.
 
The saffron clad brigade came in for further victim blaming in another theft in Prachinburi where a thief made off with a staggering 300,000 baht in cash and 10 million in jewels from the abbot’s quarters. Even so the miscreant somehow missed a further 700,000 baht in a couple of forced safes.
 
The 300K was stashed under a pillow. It appeared the abbot needed it to sleep soundly at night. He’ll have some sleepless night if plod fail to make an arrest, though doubtless the gullible parishioners will front up some more loot to negate the effects of bad karma.
 
In Bangkok the PM’s minders promised to beef up his security detail after his motorcade was chased and hooted at by a private citizen. A handful of youths were charged with murder after a 15-year-old was shot dead in Nonthaburi.
 
The BMA announced that Khao San Road was reopening for business with 240 stall holders keen to sell from 9 to 4 and 4 to midnight. One wonders if the vendors have nothing better to do!
 
Conflicting stories surrounded potential new cases of coronavirus in Thailand. With all the talk of “antibodies”, “quarantine” (both state and alternative), “returnees” and the like, I’m beginning to doubt my false positives from my positives and lose the will to live.
 
It really is time that Thaivisa had a site where anything Covid-19 related is banned rather like the UK’s Sky News did during Brexit.
 
In international news the fallout from the A-level results fiasco dominated the news until the GCSE results were announced. Not surprisingly everyone was delighted as teachers – always under pressure to fabricate – had assessed everyone nearly 10% better than in 2019.
 
In the US the Democrat’s virtual convention took center stage as Republican and decorated war hero Colin Powell criticized the incumbent. Apple became the first public company to be worth 2 trillion dollars. By comparison the UK announced that public debt had risen to more than GDP, two trillion pounds.
 
In Germany plans were being made to make it mandatory for dog owners to take their pets for two walks totaling an hour a day. Rampant Bayern Munich are set to meet Paris St Germain in the Champions League Final tonight starting at 2 am (Monday morning Thai time).
 
In Russia one of the main opposition leaders and fierce opponent of Putin, Alexei Navalny fell violently sick on a flight. His supporters say his tea was poisoned at the airport.
 
Back in Thailand the probe into the “Red Bull Boss” affair trundled on. The scion will now be charged with taking cocaine but prosecutor Nate Naksuk who dropped the most serious charges won’t be sanctioned further. Twenty policemen, many connected to Thong Lo police station where they were colleagues of the long dead Senior Sergeant Wichian Klanprasert, were deemed to have been negligent in their handling of the case.  A key witness was offered protection.
 
The two Burmese guys sentenced to death for the murders of Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on Koh Tao have had their sentences changed to life imprisonment. Give it about six years and they will be let out or even pardoned.
 
By then the statute of limitations on losing face will have run out.
 
Finally, a probe into an A340 THAI aircraft deal looks like graft.
 
Funny, but in my day that meant work.
 
Rooster

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2020-08-23

 

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[Flying Saucage]

Good read as mostly Rooster. I have been enjoying 'The week that was in Thailand' for many years already. Reading and enjoying it is a weekly routine for me, to make the Sunday a good Sunday.

 

Well balanced view on Thailands hospitals and doctors on the one hand, and on the multiple reasons to desperately being in need of them on the other hand. However I doubt that the standard is on par with your good experiences in every hospital in the county qualitywise, and for each foreign patient pricewise.

 

Having spent far less time in Thailand than you, I was lucky so far to be in need of a doctor in Thailand only once having the squitters more heavily than ever before in my life. So, I clearly lack experience in this field, thankfully.

 

[jingjai9]

In 1987 I spent four days in hospital after my liver nearly burst from complications from amoebic dysentery. While it was poor medical practice at a cheap clinic and my own stupidity that led to my nearly dying, the actions of the staff at St Louis hospital saved my life. Even if they did wheel me to accounts 

 

There is really nothing wrong with making you pay first. I had hernia surgery and I was required to pay in advance. My final bill was less than the deposit and I was refunded the difference. I think it is a good way to protect the medical system you hold in such high regard. Requiring advanace payment is one good way to avoid mandatory insurance which I think is not far down the road for all foreigners. There could be exceptions for people who require emergency treatment who lack funds.

 

[fantom]

I am a retired health professional and my experience here regarding health care has been nothing less than exemplary.

I agree with everything you say, thanks too for reminding me to not get amoebic dysentery.

[superal]

There are without doubt some highly skilled medics in Thailand but as Flying Sausage said probably not country wide especially away from the big cities .My local government hospital is staffed by newly qualified doctors who are basically journeymen learning the skills at the front line under the guidance of a senior doctor who cannot be there to advise on tap . Medical reference books are their best friends . 

My main gripe is the cost of treatment in Thailand that was once so much more affordable than western hospitals and Medical holidays in Thailand were common but some Thai prices are not far behind UK prices and when the flights are factored in they are comparable . Also you have to remember post op  re-visits need to be considered . Indeed as an example a return to the UK for op under the NHS may well be a cheaper option . 

Then there is the 4 tier charging system in Thailand , 1/ Thai price 2/ Asian , 3/ Long stay foreigner , 4 the tourist . I know I am going to rattle a few cages with this statement but it is true from both my experience and a friend whose wife works as a nurse in my local hospital .

Finally the government hospitals are often over subscribed with out patients . The system allows you or a friend to take a ticket early am when the doors open and this is what my wife did for me recently . We had ticket number 17 and yet it was not until 11 00 am that I was seen and with 3 doctors on out patient walk in duty . I soused out why . The numbers were never called out , only surnames so you never knew where you were in the queue . Not until I enquired did I get told  " not long now "  after some 40 or 50 Thais went before me and I watched them arrive to the hospital whilst I was sat waiting . I was finally seen by an excellent doctor who sent me for a ct scan where they charged me 3 times that of the Thai price .

 

[jerolamo]

Thailand is a relative safe country (ok, not on the road if you go upper than 40 km/h).

Also good for health care at very cheap price. Even in deep country there is some good doctors.

 

But the actual big problem is the national panic crisis around the COVID and the blackmail practice around.

It is a country where you can not access if you don't have big money enough, even if you are married there, because of there panic attitude AND the blackmail they use to practice with that situation.

But, it is not representative to all the country because there is no democracy and the leadership in charge stole the power by 2 consecutive coups.

So, it should change one day to something more respectful for his own population.

[jerolamo]

7 minutes ago, superal said:

There are without doubt some highly skilled medics in Thailand but as Flying Sausage said probably not country wide especially away from the big cities .My local government hospital is staffed by newly qualified doctors who are basically journeymen learning the skills at the front line under the guidance of a senior doctor who cannot be there to advise on tap . Medical reference books are their best friends . 

My main gripe is the cost of treatment in Thailand that was once so much more affordable than western hospitals and Medical holidays in Thailand were common but some Thai prices are not far behind UK prices and when the flights are factored in they are comparable . Also you have to remember post op  re-visits need to be considered . Indeed as an example a return to the UK for op under the NHS may well be a cheaper option . 

Then there is the 4 tier charging system in Thailand , 1/ Thai price 2/ Asian , 3/ Long stay foreigner , 4 the tourist . I know I am going to rattle a few cages with this statement but it is true from both my experience and a friend whose wife works as a nurse in my local hospital .

Finally the government hospitals are often over subscribed with out patients . The system allows you or a friend to take a ticket early am when the doors open and this is what my wife did for me recently . We had ticket number 17 and yet it was not until 11 00 am that I was seen and with 3 doctors on out patient walk in duty . I soused out why . The numbers were never called out , only surnames so you never knew where you were in the queue . Not until I enquired did I get told  " not long now "  after some 40 or 50 Thais went before me and I watched them arrive to the hospital whilst I was sat waiting . I was finally seen by an excellent doctor who sent me for a ct scan where they charged me 3 times that of the Thai price .

 

wow...

In Loei hospital they didn't charge me upper than the real effective price to care about my foot (who had a very big dirty and rusty nails gone deep inside). I had to wait as everybody and i see nothing abnormal there. It should depend where you go maybe.

What i see is that doctors come late (and everybody know that) because they have other shop or business to care about in the morning. They don't start early in the morning, so people wait....

no one is perfect.

[PaDavid]

I was 69 when I arrived in Thailand. Now 74, and only have good experiences of the Thai medical system. My first, in the October after I arrived was at Khon Kaen University Hospital. You’re correct about the waiting times though Rooster. We drove down from Loei the previous day, and stayed in a small hotel. Oi and I arrived at 6am, and were still over Number 1000. Anyway, after eventually getting to see the orthopaedic specialist, it was confirmed what I already knew, as I’d been diagnosed previously in UK. I needed hip replacement surgery. I can’t remember why we had to go back, but a few weeks later, we made the trip again. Not such a long wait time, however, as we bypassed most of the registration and pre-diagnosis units. The doctor, a most amenable elderly gentleman, surrounded by a sea of students, said he could perform the operation for ฿80,000 (£1,600 at that time).
 

A few weeks later, and we returned to Khon Kaen for the surgery. I was placed in a mixed sex ward of about 30 - though some beds were empty (Oi took in a straw mat and slept on the floor next to my bed). The operation ran smoothly and a few days later we returned home. 
 

Until recently, I never needed the ‘system’ again (except for rabies jabs at Erawan Hospital - my fault, not the dogs that bit me). Though, I do report to our village Rong Payabaan whenever they’re doing routine tests. A couple of months ago, I had a minor contretemps with my bicycle whilst dismounting. Somehow I scraped my calf on the gear sprockets. I called at the aforementioned village medical facility on my way home for a clean up (Oi gives me grip when I so much as scratch myself). A few days later and the wound went septic, so I returned and was given a course of antibiotics. A couple of weeks after this, I suffered severe bowel problems, including blood in shxx. It was a Sunday. Oi popped round to the doctor’s home and came back with a course of really strong antibiotics. I never actually saw the doctor, and never fully understood what was wrong with me, but think it was probably C difficile. Anyway, that’s not relevant. The problem cleared up after a few days. Total cost for all my trips to the village ‘hospital,’ including routine check ups. Zero, Zilch. Nada. And, I never had to wait more than a few minutes. Now that’s what I call service. You wouldn’t get that on the UK National Health Service. 
 

Although I always enjoy your Sunday read, Rooster, and get all my weekly news from it, on this occasion I must take exception. <deleted> the football results. What about a mention of the two excellent test match series with West Indies and Pakistan. 

[Bendi]

Nice what you say about the hospitals and doctors. My experience to. Maybee folks dont know there is a good healthcare and good public service in Thailand. Ore maybee to bussy complaining..

[sambum]

"The way things are going the tourists will probably have one ministry each."

 

Nicely put, and not far off the truth!

[rumak]

your sermon on the healthcare system is seconded by me.    though having been here about as long as

you i (fortunately) have a lot less experiences than you do.   try a vegan diet  ( 555 just joking)

 

i have been to quite a few hospitals and clinics over the years and feel very fortunate to be receiving

my health care ( also self insured ...... or as the naysayers like to ask... does that mean NOT insured?)  here in Thailand.    

 

thank you for the sermon.  

 

[Stargeezr]

Thanks Rooster for another great weekly update.  I have had only a couple of

trips to a clinic, for a very cheap amount of cash, just to get a shot in the hip after

scrapping my leg and not treating it properly, as well as a couple years later scrapping my 

arm and being careless in treatment. I have had a friend go to the Pattaya hospital

for dengue fever treatment and after 10 days he paid a fair ransom for his time there.

  Still I think he will be compensated a bit in Canada on his return. I agree that it looks like for most

people like be, 2021  Winter will be the earliest I will return to Thailand, and that is only if there

is a vaccine that I can get before hand. I will not go to the USA for at least 4 years, as that will

likely be the length of time they will need to get the corona virus under control with a loss

of nearly a half a million of their citizens. looking forward to your next column, thanks

Geezer

[brianthainess]

17 hours ago, jerolamo said:

What i see is that doctors come late (and everybody know that) because they have other shop or business to care about in the morning.

Like morning rounds, and emergencies you mean.  I only have praise for the large govt. hospitals, doctors, surgeons, and nurses.

[brianthainess]

On 8/23/2020 at 7:57 AM, rooster59 said:

 It is absolutely no surprise to me that Thailand has passed the first tests of the coronavirus pandemic with flying colors.

A good read rooster ;Much of that can be because of the huge effort put in by the health volunteers, which i think deserves a mention, in my area they went to every house, and shacks up dirt tracks, advising on how to avoid the virus, including staying fit  with exercise, volunteers have been seeing the sick mainly elderly at home for years, they take on a set amount of houses each (up to them) and visit every month, they give their time for the community. I will now blow the trumpet for my wife ???? runs a small shop, but still finds time for 10 home visits a month. ????

[Soi Dog]

Well done on the health care.  I admit i was a little skeptical about rural health care but I have become a believer.  I have mart many excellent professionals in MOH and MOPH, a product of Thailand’s indentured servitude, and have often wondered how they manage when the folks on top are politically appointed dunces.

[Mark mark]

Yes, (G’day Rooster, and Thanks ! As usual, … )

…  I feel sorry for Alexei Navaluy, and well, the Russian People !!! ...

 

… Like they never have had much luck throughout History have they ! … And well though life MUST be getting better for them ... I am sure ... the Dictators just seem to keep Rolling on ! ... Though well ... a Good place to become a hero right !  (If you can live long enough I suppose ???) ....  Like plenty of scope for that !!!...

 

Like in Adelaide Australia at least ..... About the best we could do is Hijack a garbage truck, and tip it out on the eastern side of town in the front of the Feathers Hotel !!! Right !!! 

 

I used to work with Russians on Exploration ships ... and well this WAS one of the best this that ever happened to me in my Work Carrera, ... well apart from stopping working for American companies, and starting with the Norwegians !!! ... …  Well working with Russians that were on your own level ! … Like the supervisors could be just a Bit !!! ... Testy let’s say ... Like European "Face" ... But if you were in with the rank and file ! …  If you had "Chief Navigator" written on your cabin door, … well that is what you were ... No Australian or British, Tall Poppy cutting syndrome, by the Russian rank and file work force. ... Like even the Philipinos were worse at that !!! ... Like a family, Mafia system.

 

… Any way Alex once sat with me in the recording room,, while we were operating,  ... and Told me about how when he had Joined the company, they had sent him to "York" !!! In England, ... to learn how to speak English Properly !!! (???) …  and He said that it was Really embarrassing in the Pubs after classes … as all the Leftie Unionists would come up to them, and put their arms around then and say "Hey ! Welcome !!! … It’s Great to have some REAL ! Socialists here at last" !!! … And get all teary and emotional about it !!! ….  Like Alex just said ..... <Deleted>  ...  How could I tell them !!!  … That we had ALL been quite honestly just been staying !!!  For 10 Years !!! After the Soviet Union collapsed, !!! … And well the Whole place has always has been just totally <Deleted> and we always have known this !!! ... (The system just never really worked, well except for the dictators ?)

 

Still I bet Alex would have liked Alexei Navaluy ... though he probably would have kept his voice down any time that he was not on the ship. Like they all supported their own country !!! Regardless how Politically <Deleted> it was.