How dangerous is to get a legit non b through an agent in Chaengwattana?

[ANDREW999]

At risk of repeating the same naive question again, I still need to hear your thoughts on my case. 

 

How illegal is (if it actually is) to get a legit Non B visa through an agent with the same IMM office in Bangkok that refused me & my University to process it due to amnesty status in my passport (TR Visa expired and already extended 2 times)?

 

My thought on this is that something that is not clearly stated as a law (am i wrong on this?), and it is open for interpretation (some people in my same visa status are being able to change to non b in other Imm offices, while i am not) is not actually illegal. Or can it be considered illegal something that it is interpreted in a negative way by a imm office, and i'm avoiding this 'official' interpretation of the amnesty / grace period by paying an agent to change their interpretation? In other words, what are the risks to my person of a bribe to a imm officer to get solved a visa that I'm eligible for? (I don't need to hear that bribes are a common practice in Thailand)

 

Im seriously scared of using an agent, I came to Thailand with all my papers ready to become a professor, paid for every single stamp, translation and so on not to be in this kind of situation. But thanks to covid-19, my time is now running out, i'm under amnesty, and there seem to be no other solution for me to stay.

 

I told the agency that the only way I will give my passport to them is if I go to IMM with them the day they give all my papers. They said I will go for sure.

 

Time is running out, I've got all the papers ready to change, but there seem to be no other way. If it is clearly illegal what i'm planning to do, and I there is a chance that I might be in some sort of risk of going to jail, I'd rather go back to an uncertain Europe. 

 

Volunteer, Ed visa for 3 months, is not an option for me. I do not feel comfortable with it. I'm trying to sort out papers to get married, but my embassy is taking their time to get me the free-to-marry certificate, and i'm not sure i will be able to get married before the end of September.

 

P.s.: can I disclose the name of the agency, in case someone heard of it? It is not thaivisacentre.

 

 

 

 

[tonray]

There is no way you can get in any trouble. Either you'll get a stamp or not..if not hopefully you can get a refund but stop worrying

[FlyingThai]

Quote

I told the agency that the only way I will give my passport to them is if I go to IMM with them the day they give all my papers. They said I will go for sure.

 

 

Honestly speaking you sound like a "problem customer" and as an agent I'd flat out refuse to take your business from the get go. Because there is a real danger that someone like this will throw a fit at immigration which will embarrass myself and the contact I use/bribe.

 

Leaving your passport with the agent for a few days is common. If that's not something you feel comfortable with (I get that sentiment) then so be it, dealing with an agent is not an option then.

 

There is nothing illegal or dangerous about applying for a "legit" visa/extension. The worst they can say is NO and send you packing as long as the amnesty is still running.

 

Why didn't you involve an agent when you had the issue the first time around? Maybe they could have solved it. Having all your documents properly prepared means very little at any Thai government office incl CW.

[ANDREW999]

37 minutes ago, FlyingThai said:

 

Honestly speaking you sound like a "problem customer" and as an agent I'd flat out refuse to take your business from the get go. Because there is a real danger that someone like this will throw a fit at immigration which will embarrass myself and the contact I use/bribe.

 

Leaving your passport with the agent for a few days is common. If that's not something you feel comfortable with (I get that sentiment) then so be it, dealing with an agent is not an option then.

 

There is nothing illegal or dangerous about applying for a "legit" visa/extension. The worst they can say is NO and send you packing as long as the amnesty is still running.

 

Why didn't you involve an agent when you had the issue the first time around? Maybe they could have solved it. Having all your documents properly prepared means very little at any Thai government office incl CW.

A few Other agencies told me I would go to CW to sign without even having time myself to ask about the process. So i might not be the only "problematic" or worried customer if they clarify this from the beginning. My passport, my money, my neck... I dont see how wrong is to try understanding why my university and I were refused in CW, and how now my papers are going to be accepted after paying 25k. Am I a naive to think that if you need to pay for something to dont know who, there might be something shady in the process that might get you in trouble? I just needed to hear some opinions from long time here expats about this simple question as I dont have an answer, and my university doesnt want me to deal with agents. 

[steven100]

here we go again .....  hasn't this been hammered enough. 

[steven100]

3 hours ago, ANDREW999 said:

Im seriously scared of using an agent

well don't use one then .... simple really.  

[edwardandtubs]

6 hours ago, ANDREW999 said:

P.s.: can I disclose the name of the agency, in case someone heard of it? It is not thaivisacentre.

 

Yes, you can disclose its name.

 

To be honest though, it sounds like the whole thing is just not you. You're a professor and universities in Europe are opening next month. Most will be doing some form of blended learning with lectures online but small seminars going ahead. What "uncertainty" are you referring to? There might be spike in covid-19 cases but so what? That just means more learning will take place online. If you're worried about dying from covid-19 then you need to reassess the balance of risk because you're much more at risk of dying in a traffic accident in Thailand unless you're suffering from a co-morbidity.

 

Doesn't living a normal life in Europe sound better than constantly living in fear that immigration officers are going to kick down your door in Thailand?

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, tonray said:

There is no way you can get in any trouble. Either you'll get a stamp or not..if not hopefully you can get a refund but stop worrying

The only thing to watch is ensuring that the extension does come from the correct immigration office. Agents have a nasty habit of processing extensions through offices where compliant officials are cheaper. Ask the question directly: "will my extension be processed through the Bangkok office (presumably Chaengwattana)". Actually, what you should expect from a good agent is transport to and from immigration, with VIP queuing so you do not need to hang around long. The extension is not strictly proper if you do not briefly attend immigration in person.

[FlyingThai]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

The only thing to watch is ensuring that the extension does come from the correct immigration office. Agents have a nasty habit of processing extensions through offices where compliant officials are cheaper. Ask the question directly: "will my extension be processed through the Bangkok office (presumably Chaengwattana)". Actually, what you should expect from a good agent is transport to and from immigration, with VIP queuing so you do not need to hang around long. The extension is not strictly proper if you do not briefly attend immigration in person.

I wouldn't expect it to be "proper" to begin with if I have to go through an agent and they charge me an amount where I already know it includes a bribe.

Edited August 24, 2020 by FlyingThai

[Phillip9]

21 minutes ago, FlyingThai said:

I wouldn't expect it to be "proper" to begin with if I have to go through an agent and they charge me an amount where I already know it includes a bribe.

That would be true if this was any western country.  But this is Thailand.  Here, using an agent is proper and Immigration prefers you to do it that way.  It is likely the only reason immigration rejected the OP’s application was to force him to use an agent.

[ANDREW999]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

The only thing to watch is ensuring that the extension does come from the correct immigration office. Agents have a nasty habit of processing extensions through offices where compliant officials are cheaper. Ask the question directly: "will my extension be processed through the Bangkok office (presumably Chaengwattana)". Actually, what you should expect from a good agent is transport to and from immigration, with VIP queuing so you do not need to hang around long. The extension is not strictly proper if you do not briefly attend immigration in person.

It will be processed in Chaengwattana. I made sure of this when I first contacted them.

 

Thanks for the last sentence, that is what i suspected and I was looking for a confirmation on it

[fishtank]

8 hours ago, Phillip9 said:

  But this is Thailand.  Here, using an agent is proper and Immigration prefers you to do it that way.  

Yes because they get a back hander.

[bwanajohn]

My understanding of this is .. There no existing procedure to convert amnesty status to any  visa one may qualify for. However since we cant leave the country and re enter with  a status that there is an existing legal procedure to convert from, or go to a consulate or embassy in another country. Immigration has found a way to do it but its a special service and costs 25k . This service has been offered in some offices  to applicants without being represented by an agent. Unfortunately some ungrateful applicants reacted badly to this offer saw it as a bribe and rip off and did not hide there feelings. 

 So immigration is reluctant to offer with out being repped by an agent. Personally although it would be nice to have it free I'm happy not to have to buy an airline ticket to a third country or  home to Canada

to renew my visa so 25k is a reasonable alternative. 

[ANDREW999]

1 hour ago, bwanajohn said:

My understanding of this is .. There no existing procedure to convert amnesty status to any  visa one may qualify for. However since we cant leave the country and re enter with  a status that there is an existing legal procedure to convert from, or go to a consulate or embassy in another country. Immigration has found a way to do it but its a special service and costs 25k . This service has been offered in some offices  to applicants without being represented by an agent. Unfortunately some ungrateful applicants reacted badly to this offer saw it as a bribe and rip off and did not hide there feelings. 

 So immigration is reluctant to offer with out being repped by an agent. Personally although it would be nice to have it free I'm happy not to have to buy an airline ticket to a third country or  home to Canada

to renew my visa so 25k is a reasonable alternative. 

That hasnt been offered in CW. I would have accepted without hesitation almost a month ago when they rejected my papers and told me to get the non b outside Thailand and come back. 

 

25 is way cheaper than going back to Europe and try to get back. Besides, not every company is willing to wait for you until you manage to come back, specially schools (except, maybe, the top tier ones).

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, bwanajohn said:

My understanding of this is .. There no existing procedure to convert amnesty status to any  visa one may qualify for. However since we cant leave the country and re enter with  a status that there is an existing legal procedure to convert from, or go to a consulate or embassy in another country. Immigration has found a way to do it but its a special service and costs 25k . This service has been offered in some offices  to applicants without being represented by an agent. Unfortunately some ungrateful applicants reacted badly to this offer saw it as a bribe and rip off and did not hide there feelings. 

 So immigration is reluctant to offer with out being repped by an agent. Personally although it would be nice to have it free I'm happy not to have to buy an airline ticket to a third country or  home to Canada

to renew my visa so 25k is a reasonable alternative. 

The "Automatic Extension" extends whatever permitted-stay you had when it went into effect.  It is not an "amnesty." 

 

Immigration's pay-off deals are extortion and a rip-off.  It's not really a 'bribe' if the application is legit, because there is no law being broken.  They use agents to hide their wrongdoing (felony, where I come from).  There is no legal reason they cannot do these for "list price."

[visarunner]

On 8/25/2020 at 3:08 AM, BritTim said:

The only thing to watch is ensuring that the extension does come from the correct immigration office. Agents have a nasty habit of processing extensions through offices where compliant officials are cheaper. Ask the question directly: "will my extension be processed through the Bangkok office (presumably Chaengwattana)". Actually, what you should expect from a good agent is transport to and from immigration, with VIP queuing so you do not need to hang around long. The extension is not strictly proper if you do not briefly attend immigration in person.

Yes, they have to use the Office where the Non B will be processed. They will only accept paperwork if 100% completed by the Employer. This is not like the retirement route.

[ANDREW999]

2 hours ago, visarunner said:

Yes, they have to use the Office where the Non B will be processed. They will only accept paperwork if 100% completed by the Employer. This is not like the retirement route.

That is true. The agency checked and rechecked every single paper and stamp, including passport (looking for any overstay). I think there is no option to process it through this "route" if you have any history of overstay. It must be the condition that imm imposed.

[Max69xl]

On 8/24/2020 at 8:40 PM, ANDREW999 said:

A few Other agencies told me I would go to CW to sign without even having time myself to ask about the process. So i might not be the only "problematic" or worried customer if they clarify this from the beginning. My passport, my money, my neck... I dont see how wrong is to try understanding why my university and I were refused in CW, and how now my papers are going to be accepted after paying 25k. Am I a naive to think that if you need to pay for something to dont know who, there might be something shady in the process that might get you in trouble? I just needed to hear some opinions from long time here expats about this simple question as I dont have an answer, and my university doesnt want me to deal with agents. 

If your documents are in order and the problem at CW is the amnesty, then 25k is way to much to pay. That's the amount you might have to pay to an agent if you don't meet several requirements. Then the agent pays immigration.

[ANDREW999]

31 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If your documents are in order and the problem at CW is the amnesty, then 25k is way to much to pay. That's the amount you might have to pay to an agent if you don't meet several requirements. Then the agent pays immigration.

The problem was just the amnesty status. All documents are in order.

 

Im sure IMM is not getting the 25k. I calculate that the agency takes, at least, 10k. 

 

I havent been directly offered this "vip" service by IMM, so the agent's piece of the cake is well deserved, in my opinion. 

[audaciousnomad]

12 hours ago, ANDREW999 said:

The problem was just the amnesty status. All documents are in order.

 

Im sure IMM is not getting the 25k. I calculate that the agency takes, at least, 10k. 

 

I havent been directly offered this "vip" service by IMM, so the agent's piece of the cake is well deserved, in my opinion. 

You are correct in your assumption. You will not even get a receipt for that 25K. Most likely you will just get a receipt for the official application fee of THB2000, along with a shiny new stamp in your passport.  Any money above and beyond the app fee gets spirited away and the agent and immig will appreciate that you don't ask too many questions about "hush" money you paid.

Edited August 26, 2020 by audaciousnomad

[pixelaoffy]

On 8/25/2020 at 3:08 AM, BritTim said:

The only thing to watch is ensuring that the extension does come from the correct immigration office. Agents have a nasty habit of processing extensions through offices where compliant officials are cheaper. Ask the question directly: "will my extension be processed through the Bangkok office (presumably Chaengwattana)". Actually, what you should expect from a good agent is transport to and from immigration, with VIP queuing so you do not need to hang around long. The extension is not strictly proper if you do not briefly attend immigration in person.

It's a legit visa whatever office it's from . CW. Jomtien. Korat  etc and it is 'proper' whether you attend or don't !

 

Edited August 26, 2020 by pixelaoffy

[ANDREW999]

3 hours ago, pixelaoffy said:

It's a legit visa whatever office it's from . CW. Jomtien. Korat  etc and it is 'proper' whether you attend or don't !

 

it certainly wasn't proper the way they passed the money in front of me in CW through a 3rd party, looking to right and left all the time. i felt like in the middle of a minor drug operation. But I was later relaxed to see that there were 2 imm officers processing the non b in front of me (besides the senior, that only took and kept the money). I am just surprised that they handled the money thing in front of me. And I wonder how they justify later to their boss processing a non b to a guy under amnesty (if they have to, via a report of the daily activity, for example). 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by ANDREW999

[ANDREW999]

6 hours ago, audaciousnomad said:

You are correct in your assumption. You will not even get a receipt for that 25K. Most likely you will just get a receipt for the official application fee of THB2000, along with a shiny new stamp in your passport.  Any money above and beyond the app fee gets spirited away and the agent and immig will appreciate that you don't ask too many questions about "hush" money you paid.

I didnt get a single receipt. I saw the senior taking the money, keeping it, and putting 2000 with my papers.

 

I didnt say a single word. I just wanted to finish as soon as possible. Luckily it only took me 5-10 mins. Scan your finger here, picture here, take your mask, and not even a goodbye.

Edited August 27, 2020 by ANDREW999

[Orton Rd]

Why not cut out the middle if you think it's legal and pay immigration direct? all an agent does is fill out the form and pass on the payment.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Orton Rd

[Caldera]

43 minutes ago, ANDREW999 said:

And I wonder how they justify later to their boss processing a non b to a guy under amnesty (if they have to, via a report of the daily activity, for example). 

By passing up a chunk of the loot. That's how it's always being "justified".

[ANDREW999]

6 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Why not cut out the middle if you think it's legal and pay immigration direct? all an agent does is fill out the form and pass on the payment.

I'd gladly pay them 2000 if they accepted to process my non b in an ordinary way. 

[Orton Rd]

4 minutes ago, ANDREW999 said:

I'd gladly pay them 2000 if they accepted to process my non b in an ordinary way. 

Give it a go then, my neighbor did not have 400k in the bank long enough last year, she just put 1k in her passport and it was over looked.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Orton Rd

[bwpage3]

A professor should be able to figure this out?

[ANDREW999]

5 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Give it a go then, my neighbor did not have 400k in the bank long enough last year, she just put 1k in her passport and it was over looked.

Ah, you meant handling the bribe myself. I thought you meant pushing them to just process it in the normal way. 2000 is the price for the non b. I misunderstood you.

 

I'd rather not to do this myself. 

[ANDREW999]

10 minutes ago, bwpage3 said:

A professor should be able to figure this out?

I need a PhD in thai jurisprudence, focused on costumary law