Intermittent Fault.

[Luckydog]

I and various engineers have tried everything to find out why she wont start after I have driven somewhere and stopped for a while......It turns over well so its not battery trouble. She just doesnt Fire? It doesnt happen all the time......only a couple of times a day.

However, when I disconnect the Battery for a few minutes and reconnect it , it usually starts!. She's only done 100000km and is in all round very good condition. Uses no oil etc.

It has only developed this fault since the Dash was removed to allow the Aircon to be fixed. It was leaking water inside the car.. Of course I took it back and complained and the guy checked everything, without success......Most of the time it goes well.

I have a security system installed but I have it switched off all the time.

Tried to get advice from Holden in Australia but they ignore my Emails.

What shall I do now? I live in Pattaya.

Cheers.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Luckydog

[Mighty Mouse]

Check your fuel pump and fuel filter. If these are OK, check the power supply to your fuel pump. You may find the fault to be a simple dirty electrical contact on the lead to your fuel pump

If your car refuses to start but will start after giving your fuel tank a few hard thumps, it will be that your fuel pump needs replacing.

After 100,000 kms, your fuel filter should be replaced anyway.

Other things could be water in your petrol. Remove a couple of spark plugs and look for signs of moisture.

[taxexile]

check the earthing connections and all the plastic and metal clip connectors for corrosion and or looseness in the ignition , battery , alternator and fuel system circuits.

[Farma]

From my Haynes manual for a Nissan 2.4 engine.

Engine hard to start when hot.

1. Air filter dirty

2. Fuel not reaching carburetor or fuel injectors. Check for a vapor lock situation, brought about by clogged fuel tank vent lines.

3. Bad engine earth connection.

4. Choke sticking.

5. Defective pick-up coil in distributor.

6. Float level too high.

Another section on diagnostics suggests look at the timing chain for wear.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Farma

[v8tfcorty]

what exactly did they remove from the dash when they did the aircon im thinking it is electrical and most probably a loose or dirty earth wire/connector plug under the dash try and trace back both the fuel pump wiring or the ignition coil wiring and check that both of these where ever they a connecting into the loom under the dash are both tight, secure and dirt free.

is the 2.6 fitted by holden (im aussie and smallest ive seen in em is a 3.8) or is it the 2.6 out of the opel amiga (spelling)

Edited April 26, 2007 by v8tfcorty

[Luckydog]

what exactly did they remove from the dash when they did the aircon im thinking it is electrical and most probably a loose or dirty earth wire/connector plug under the dash try and trace back both the fuel pump wiring or the ignition coil wiring and check that both of these where ever they a connecting into the loom under the dash are both tight, secure and dirt free.

is the 2.6 fitted by holden (im aussie and smallest ive seen in em is a 3.8) or is it the 2.6 out of the opel amiga (spelling)

Yes Sport, it's a genuine Holden Dual Ram 2.6 Engine. Allegedly!

They removed the whole of the Dash to get at the Aircon unit as it was leaking. Only since they did that have I had the fault.....I have just checked the Battery Terminals and the one I have been removing (+) was very tight,the other one (-) was not! As the terminals too small for the fitting. I have packed it out now so I hope that that was the reason for the problem. Doubt it though.....

[v8tfcorty]

yeah dont think a loosish battery terminal will cause what your saying because if it doesnt/isnt making contact the engine wont crank over.

iam almost 100% convinced the problem is electrical and it will be something to do with either the fuel system or ignition system.

still trying to find a reference in regards to the 2.6 i have heard of them being fitted but not knowing who actually done it...

is the car definatley a 1999 model ... i have a mate in holden autralia he might be able to shed some light on the problem

[Farma]

v8tfcorty GM (Opel,Vauxhall) sell the commodore equivalent in Europe with smaller engines. This car could be one of those carrying the Holden badge. Similar to the Oz made Commodores sold in the Middle East under the Chevy badge. The Vauxhall Omega sells in the UK with a 2.5 v6 engine.

The battery terminals should have a large and a small terminal to prevent mix up when connecting to the battery. It sounds like the small terminal connector has been changed at sometime in the past.

I’m thinking along the lines of a loose or bad connection in the ignition system too.

Edited April 26, 2007 by Farma

[Luckydog]

Thanks guys.

Yes she is definitely a Holden Calais Statesman with a dual Ram 2.6 Petrol Engine in.

As I said I cant get any repy from so called Customer Care in Holdens Australia HQ.

Had several Thai Engineers look at her but they cant figure out what is causing the problem which is definitely Electrical. Does anyone know of a Mobile Electrical Motor Engineer in Pattaya?

Strangely, the fault has changed from not starting after a trip. To just fading out after a few minutes whilst on the move? The refusing to start again for an hour or so......

It seems that the is not getting to the Coil for some reason as the lead to it is dead?

I was told to avoid Holdens as they dont know how to repair them in Thailand. Wish I had listened now..........

[Mighty Mouse]

Your problem is exactly what I had with my Ford EL. It was very difficult to start and the engine would konk out whilst driving, at any speed.

At that time it was easy to re-start and continue driving, but the konking out bit became more frequent.

I replaced the fuel pump. It went well for a few months and then the same problem started again.

I replaced the fuel filter.

I put fuel injector cleaner in with the petrol.

The next problem was that it refused to start at all. If I sat with it and retried after numerous attempts, it would eventually start.

There was plenty of charge in the battery.

The car was taken to mechanical firms and auto electricians. All spark plugs were replaced, the car was put on diagnostic machines. No fault found.

On the last occasion I took a chance with it as it would start whilst parked in my garage. I drove it to a friends house and parked it on the street.

When I returned to the car it started but only drove 100 yards before it konked out.

Three hours later I managed to start it and I raced it home, not stopping for anything, red lights included. I decided not to trust it again.

An auto electrician, who worked out of the back of his ute, was recommended to me. I called him and he attended.

It took him 20 minutes of testing all the electrical components and he found the fault to be a dirty electrical contact in the small box under the bonnet (hood).

The dirty contact was on the lead to the fuel pump.

He cleaned the contacts with a file and that was the end of the problem. I was charged only $40 but had paid out hundreds of $$$'s to the other mechanics.

Under the bonnet of your Holden there should be a similar electrical box. Clean all the contacts and see what happens.

If you can't detect power getting to your ignition coil, it may only be a dirty contact or perhaps the ignition module needs replacing.

[Farma]

Mighty Mouse your post reminds me of a couple of similar faults my cars have had over the years.

In the late 80’s Holden Gemini’s had a batch of faulty fuel relays (fitted on the firewall in the engine bay). On start a higher voltage would go to the fuel pump for a short amount of time then reduce. If the relay was faulty this increased voltage wouldn’t occur. The result was a lack of fuel to the engine and the engine faded and stopped due to fuel starvation.

Nissans also had problems with a relay in the ignition system suffering from corrosion caused by humidity. I had to replace 3 of these on the one car over a period of 5 years. This was a large relay fitted in the engine bay. This corrosion caused similar symptoms to those Luckydog is now experiencing.

[wilko]

If it's fading out it sounds more like a fuel supply problem...so filters etc....can you smell fuel BEFORE you start turning the engine over? A leak perhaps?

There is one problem I have had a couple of times that is so simple it might be worth checking....is the breather to the fuel tank blocked?

If so it will build up a vacuum in the tank and eventually fuel will be sucked back out of the system or finally the supply will be just cut off resulting in a fading away of fuel.

we have just had the dustiest time of year and it is certainly the time to check filters and breathers.

[Farma]

A clogged fuel cap will be easy to diagnose. When you open the cap you will hear a loud suction noise. It's worth looking at. Past experience with clogged vent holes in fuel caps resulted in my car stopping maybe a few hundred metres down the road.

[Mighty Mouse]

When I had the problem with my Ford, I took the car back to the Ford dealership. I described the cars' symptoms to the Ford service manager.

He said the problem will be in the cars' computer system. He wanted to replace the whole computer system at a cost of AUS $400.

So many people diagnosed the problem in so many different ways. Every way mentioned was very expensive.

Who would have thought that a simple electrical contact could cause such a problem.

I agree with you guys who suggest that the OP's car is being starved of fuel. It is in this area that I'd be concentrating my efforts to solve the problem.

[Luckydog]

If it's fading out it sounds more like a fuel supply problem...so filters etc....can you smell fuel BEFORE you start turning the engine over? A leak perhaps?

There is one problem I have had a couple of times that is so simple it might be worth checking....is the breather to the fuel tank blocked?

If so it will build up a vacuum in the tank and eventually fuel will be sucked back out of the system or finally the supply will be just cut off resulting in a fading away of fuel.

we have just had the dustiest time of year and it is certainly the time to check filters and breathers.

No Leaks. Fuel breather not blocked. I think it is definitely electrical....thanks.

[Luckydog]

Mighty Mouse your post reminds me of a couple of similar faults my cars have had over the years.

In the late 80's Holden Gemini's had a batch of faulty fuel relays (fitted on the firewall in the engine bay). On start a higher voltage would go to the fuel pump for a short amount of time then reduce. If the relay was faulty this increased voltage wouldn't occur. The result was a lack of fuel to the engine and the engine faded and stopped due to fuel starvation.

Nissans also had problems with a relay in the ignition system suffering from corrosion caused by humidity. I had to replace 3 of these on the one car over a period of 5 years. This was a large relay fitted in the engine bay. This corrosion caused similar symptoms to those Luckydog is now experiencing.

I will have my relays checked Ta.....

[Pink Mist]

agreed is electrical, now how about checking fuse connections and the rest, then get a can of freeze and try spraying over components, more importantly connections.

[Luckydog]

Your problem is exactly what I had with my Ford EL. It was very difficult to start and the engine would konk out whilst driving, at any speed.

At that time it was easy to re-start and continue driving, but the konking out bit became more frequent.

I replaced the fuel pump. It went well for a few months and then the same problem started again.

I replaced the fuel filter.

I put fuel injector cleaner in with the petrol.

The next problem was that it refused to start at all. If I sat with it and retried after numerous attempts, it would eventually start.

There was plenty of charge in the battery.

The car was taken to mechanical firms and auto electricians. All spark plugs were replaced, the car was put on diagnostic machines. No fault found.

On the last occasion I took a chance with it as it would start whilst parked in my garage. I drove it to a friends house and parked it on the street.

When I returned to the car it started but only drove 100 yards before it konked out.

Three hours later I managed to start it and I raced it home, not stopping for anything, red lights included. I decided not to trust it again.

An auto electrician, who worked out of the back of his ute, was recommended to me. I called him and he attended.

It took him 20 minutes of testing all the electrical components and he found the fault to be a dirty electrical contact in the small box under the bonnet (hood).

The dirty contact was on the lead to the fuel pump.

He cleaned the contacts with a file and that was the end of the problem. I was charged only $40 but had paid out hundreds of $$$'s to the other mechanics.

Under the bonnet of your Holden there should be a similar electrical box. Clean all the contacts and see what happens.

If you can't detect power getting to your ignition coil, it may only be a dirty contact or perhaps the ignition module needs replacing.

Thanks Mate. I will do as you suggest. Let you know if I succeed......

[sierra01]

Maybe look for/at the unexpected. My car had 2 problems, fully charged battery but the starter motor only just turned over fast enough to start it....some of the time! Sometimes I would turn the key, everything lit up as normal but......nothing, no click from the starter, no dimming of the dash lights, nothing. I had the starter replaced cos it was drawing 10 times the power it should have drawn and it also sorted out the second problem.

[Luckydog]

Mighty Mouse

An auto electrician, who worked out of the back of his ute, was recommended to me. I called him and he attended.

It took him 20 minutes of testing all the electrical components and he found the fault to be a dirty electrical contact in the small box under the bonnet (hood).

The dirty contact was on the lead to the fuel pump.

He cleaned the contacts with a file and that was the end of the problem. I was charged only $40 but had paid out hundreds of $$$'s to the other mechanics.

Under the bonnet of your Holden there should be a similar electrical box. Clean all the contacts and see what happens.

If you can't detect power getting to your ignition coil, it may only be a dirty contact or perhaps the ignition module needs replacing.

Who pray was this guy? Does he work in Pattaya?

[warwick7735]

Hi

If like you say your not getting a 12volt supply at the + side of the coil when the ignition is on, you can put a temporary bypass direct from the battery to this + terminal and see if it starts then. If it does it rules out the fuel system, coil, leads, plugs.

I dont know what the exact ignition system is on the holden, is it electronic ignition with a dizzy or without

[wilko]

Never mind - but always go for the cheapest and simplest option first! Yes I forgot to mention that you should run with the cap off to see if the fault goes away.

Holdens here were sold with the smaller engine for tax reasons.....with the resulting loss in weight, they're probably just as quick!...and corner better!?

[stingray]

Every newer cars, not only Holden, with electronic engine management system can not be repaired easly anymore. We are living in the year 2007. So forget the local workshops. About your Holden: It's a commom problem with the fuelpump relais. Change it if you never changed before. you have to use a original relais. If you buy a Bosch relais in some sparepart shop, it will not work. they look the same, but they are not the same. The numbers on the plug is the same, like 30/51, 85, 86, 87, but the plugs are on different places. Therefore use only original relais for Holden Calais. If you need more assistance please send me a message and i give you my phonenumber, so we can meet us.

[Wellyoudidask]

I and various engineers have tried everything to find out why she wont start after I have driven somewhere and stopped for a while......It turns over well so its not battery trouble. She just doesnt Fire? It doesnt happen all the time......only a couple of times a day.

However, when I disconnect the Battery for a few minutes and reconnect it , it usually starts!. She's only done 100000km and is in all round very good condition. Uses no oil etc.

It has only developed this fault since the Dash was removed to allow the Aircon to be fixed. It was leaking water inside the car.. Of course I took it back and complained and the guy checked everything, without success......Most of the time it goes well.

I have a security system installed but I have it switched off all the time.

Tried to get advice from Holden in Australia but they ignore my Emails.

What shall I do now? I live in Pattaya.

Cheers.

i had this problem with a nissan, the battery sounded fine, however was hardly producing enough spark to get going, the battery sounded fine, and the cranking sounded fast enough, but it wasnt, its worth a try , put another battery on

( a new one ) tell the garage you will purchase it if it starts !

[Luckydog]

Had a computer check on her and they found out that the Guy who repaired the Aircon under the Dash, had left a small leak. Therefore drips of water were falling on an electrical connection under the Dashboard making the juice to the Engine short. After it had dried out, she would go again......ugh.

Anyway, at the moment all seems to be ok. But I have no real confidence that this will continue, I am afraid.......Hopefully it will.

MANY thanks to all you lovely guys who tried to help.

[wilko]

gives you a warm fuzzy feeling doesn't it?!?!?!?!?!