UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

The original post said "once and for all", which is not the same as either of your quotes. 

 

I recall Salmond saying "once in a generation", but do not recall anyone saying "once in a lifetime".  Can you provide some evidence of it being said by anyone of any significance?

 

If the second quote is not, in fact, accurate, I would ask:  How long is a generation?  Or even a lifetime?  The lifetime of a UK Parliament is five years (maximum).  So we have had more than one Parliamentary lifetime (which would have to be more than a generation) sicne 2014.

 

But even if you consider me to be twisting things, then the fact remains that in 2014 there was no realstic prosepct of the UK leaving the EU but there was a significant risk that an independent Scotland would  have to apply for membership, perhaps with much impaired conditions attahed.  Ther situation has changed hugely and now the choice might be between remaining in an increasingly unwelcome Union with England, or leaving that Union and seeking membership of the EU. Or not - that would be for thr Scots to decide. 

 

I have said before that I voted against independence in 2014.  Were the question asked again I may very well vote the other way.

 

PH

I was responding to RRs post and not the previous one or the one before that or even posts on page 3.

You have a serious comprehension problem, so if its ok with you I'd rather not be playing pedantic table tennis with yourself. Have a nice day.

[Phulublub]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

I was responding to RRs post and not the previous one or the one before that or even posts on page 3.

You have a serious comprehension problem, so if its ok with you I'd rather not be playing pedantic table tennis with yourself. Have a nice day.

Accuracy not your strong point then.  Neither, it would seem, is engaging in a proper debate and properly responding to previous lines of discussion.

 

I think I am pretty good at comprehension, but thanks for the observation.

 

PH

[RuamRudy]

Good to see another thing we Scots were getting criticised about previously is now going mainstream. 

 

TORY SCUM is dominating the headlines and waking more and more up to how we were right all along. 

 

MPs reject motion to provide free school meals to pupils during half term

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Good to see another thing we Scots were getting criticised about previously is now going mainstream. 

 

TORY SCUM is dominating the headlines and waking more and more up to how we were right all along. 

 

MPs reject motion to provide free school meals to pupils during half term

Angela Raynor, such a classy lady, you just have to admire Labour......the party that never stops giving.

Who needs politicians when we have experts like Rashford and Lineker.????????????

But if you think that calling someone "scum" is acceptable, especially in the HoC, it really says it all.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Angela Raynor, such a classy lady, you just have to admire Labour......the party that never stops giving.

Who needs politicians when we have experts like Rashford and Lineker.????????????

But if you think that calling someone "scum" is acceptable, especially in the HoC, it really says it all.

 

If you think that the worst part of this is a man, who actively supported the government's refusal to help the poorest children in the UK get fed, being called names, that really says it all. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by RuamRudy

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

If you think that the worst part of this is a man, who actively supported the government's refusal to help the poorest children in the UK get fed, being called names, that really says it all. 

There was nobody poorer than my mother, she never went cap in hand to anyone, calling someone scum in parliament can never be justified, not to me anyway, perhaps we have been brought up different eh.

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

There was nobody poorer than my mother, she never went cap in hand to anyone, calling someone scum in parliament can never be justified, not to me anyway, perhaps we have been brought up different eh.

 

'We had it hard, so so should you" is such a small minded attitude. At least, that's how my parents brought me up - to help those less fortunate than ourselves, not turn our backs on them. 

 

I was also taught the importance of being forthright. If someone actually facilitates something about which you are vehemently opposed, take a stand and call them out on it. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

'We had it hard, so so should you" is such a small minded attitude. At least, that's how my parents brought me up - to help those less fortunate than ourselves, not turn our backs on them. 

 

I was also taught the importance of being forthright. If someone actually facilitates something about which you are vehemently opposed, take a stand and call them out on it. 

Very noble of you but my mother taught me not to rely on others, in those days if you didn't work you simply never got any money. Back then if you relied on the state it was seen as shame on the family, these days it is a badge of honour. 

Do you think some people could help themselves a little more, if people chose to have a family maybe they should accept the responsibilities that comes with decision.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Very noble of you but my mother taught me not to rely on others, in those days if you didn't work you simply never got any money. Back then if you relied on the state it was seen as shame on the family, these days it is a badge of honour. 

Do you think some people could help themselves a little more, if people chose to have a family maybe they should accept the responsibilities that comes with decision.

 

Good god, when even Farage thinks you are 'mean' and 'wrong', it's seriously time to take a moment and rethink your position. 

 

 

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Good god, when even Farage thinks you are 'mean' and 'wrong', it's seriously time to take a moment and rethink your position. 

 

 

As strange as it may seem, I don't hang on to Nigels everyword. When I had children my first thought wasn't, now who can I get to pay for them.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

As strange as it may seem, I don't hang on to Nigels everyword. 

I am not suggesting that he is your guru; more that when your position is too right wing for a corrupt fascist like him, it is maybe time to pause for reflection. 

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

When I had children my first thought wasn't, now who can I get to pay for them

 

I don't know the parents of the children identified as being at risk, but might it be possible that for many of them, they never planned to be in this situation, and that events took turns over which they had no control? 

 

Either way, is it the mark of a decent society if we make children pay for their parents' alleged fecklessness? 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am not suggesting that he is your guru; more that when your position is too right wing for a corrupt fascist like him, it is maybe time to pause for reflection. 

 

I don't know the parents of the children identified as being at risk, but might it be possible that for many of them, they never planned to be in this situation, and that events took turns over which they had no control? 

 

Either way, is it the mark of a decent society if we make children pay for their parents' alleged fecklessness? 

I am sure that many of them never intended to be in that situation, but like your post it is all assumption. I'm sure there will be many playing the system and I'm sure that some of them that can't/don't want to pay will be making sure little Jimmy has the latest IPhone to help him get through his scholastic day. 

One thing that we both must agree on is that there must be more screwing the system than not, call me Mr Sceptic if you like but, c'est la vie.

[Phulublub]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

One thing that we both must agree on is that there must be more screwing the system than not,

 

If so, then is as much the fault of those who wrote the laws that allow such "screwing" to occur as it is those taking advantage.

 

PH

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

 

If so, then is as much the fault of those who wrote the laws that allow such "screwing" to occur as it is those taking advantage.

 

 

PH

Chances are that any of this alleged 'screwing' is already technically illegal according to existing laws.

[RayC]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

there must be more screwing the system than not

There's no 'must' about it.

[evadgib]

This'll have the McMafia 'greetin' in their porridge ????

Scottish businesses to benefit from UK-Japan trade agreement

Quote

Scottish businesses are set to benefit from the historic UK-Japan Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement (CEPA) signed by International Trade Secretary Liz Truss and Japan’s Foreign Minister Motegi Toshimitsu in Tokyo today (Friday 23 October).

 

[vogie]

A former Scottish Government advisor has said that Angus Robertson is being lined up to replace Nicola Sturgeon. Should be interesting an Englishman leading the SNP, how will the Scottish Nationalists react to this, could be interesting.????

[RuamRudy]

15 hours ago, evadgib said:

This'll have the McMafia 'greetin' in their porridge ????

Scottish businesses to benefit from UK-Japan trade agreement

 

 

It is a UK government link. Even they are not so stupid as to tell the truth about their incompetence, lies or corruption. What do you expect them to say?

 

While we do make blue cheese in Scotland, I am not sure that any uptick in blue cheese sales will be sufficient to offset the massive negative impact which will be felt in Scotland from the stupidity of the Brexit we overwhelmingly rejected but is being forced upon us by another country.

[RuamRudy]

15 hours ago, vogie said:

A former Scottish Government advisor has said that Angus Robertson is being lined up to replace Nicola Sturgeon. Should be interesting an Englishman leading the SNP, how will the Scottish Nationalists react to this, could be interesting.????

 

 

He is a very popular figure in the independence movement so I am sure it would be welcomed. You see, despite your frequent baseless lie which you throw out before scurrying away to hide when challenged, the fact is that Scottish independence is outward looking and inclusive, and is barely tainted with the nasty racism and xenophobia that oozes from every facet of Brexit. 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

It is a UK government link. Even they are not so stupid as to tell the truth about their incompetence, lies or corruption. What do you expect them to say?

 

While we do make blue cheese in Scotland, I am not sure that any uptick in blue cheese sales will be sufficient to offset the massive negative impact which will be felt in Scotland from the stupidity of the Brexit we overwhelmingly rejected but is being forced upon us by another country.

No 'we (????????) ' didn't & No you (???????? whether you like it or not; read the T&C's) weren't; 'We (????????)' overwhelmingly voted to hoof the ???????? & that's exactly what has occurred.

Edited October 24, 2020 by evadgib

[RuamRudy]

11 minutes ago, evadgib said:

No 'we (????????) ' didn't & No you (???????? whether you like it or not; read the T&C's) weren't; 'We (????????)' overwhelmingly voted to hoof the ???????? & that's exactly what has occurred.

You keep telling yourself that but the support for independence keeps rising. What do you think - 60% by the end of the year? Maybe 40% in Wales by then? Who would have thought that the UK's last act of empire would be the one thing that unraveled the whole shebang?

[transam]

8 minutes ago, evadgib said:

No 'we (????????) ' didn't & No you (???????? whether you like it or not; read the T&C's) weren't; 'We (????????)' overwhelmingly voted to hoof the ???????? & that's exactly what has occurred.

Yep, and when Scotland see's the UK has moved on in a most stupendous way, the Independence thingy will go straight out the window....... ????

 

Salmond & Sturgeon will be embracing ancient history, spending their Sundays re-enacting those historical battlefields of many a century back..  ????

 

 

 

 

[evadgib]

8 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You keep telling yourself that but the support for independence keeps rising. What do you think - 60% by the end of the year? Maybe 40% in Wales by then? Who would have thought that the UK's last act of empire would be the one thing that unraveled the whole shebang?

Moves are afoot to void the union of 1707. Who do you think will be the main beneficiary if that takes off...? 

[vogie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

 

He is a very popular figure in the independence movement so I am sure it would be welcomed. You see, despite your frequent baseless lie which you throw out before scurrying away to hide when challenged, the fact is that Scottish independence is outward looking and inclusive, and is barely tainted with the nasty racism and xenophobia that oozes from every facet of Brexit. 

Alex Salmond lied to the Scots before your one and only referendum, and when the Scots hear the real implications of partitioning it will be a case of 'nay way Jimmy'. 

The SNP and its followers have a tendency to be very economical with the truth and what is my baseless lie you would like me to prove to you that hasn't already been proven.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Moves are afoot to void the union of 1707. Who do you think will be the main beneficiary if that takes off...? 

 

I supported the crowdfunder for this action - it seems to have split legal minds as to whether it actually has a chance, or whether it will do more harm than good to the overall indy intent. Either way, it is a fascinating insight into the arcane aspects of constitutional law. 

 

In terms of beneficiaries, I think we will all gain; the relentless grind between Scotland and rUK will disappear and England will no longer be burdened by a people who have a pretty strong desire to move in a different direction, politically. 

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Alex Salmond lied to the Scots before your one and only referendum, and when the Scots hear the real implications of partitioning it will be a case of 'nay way Jimmy'. 

The SNP and its followers have a tendency to be very economical with the truth and what is my baseless lie you would like me to prove to you that hasn't already been proven.

 

Your assertion that the SNP is a fundamentally anti English entity, and that the desire for Scottish independence is driven by a hatred of the English.

[evadgib]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Alex Salmond lied to the Scots before your one and only referendum, and when the Scots hear the real implications of partitioning it will be a case of 'nay way Jimmy'. 

The SNP and its followers have a tendency to be very economical with the truth and what is my baseless lie you would like me to prove to you that hasn't already been proven.

You've just told another one; They've had TWO ????

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I supported the crowdfunder for this action - it seems to have split legal minds as to whether it actually has a chance, or whether it will do more harm than good to the overall indy intent. Either way, it is a fascinating insight into the arcane aspects of constitutional law. 

 

In terms of beneficiaries, I think we will all gain; the relentless grind between Scotland and rUK will disappear and England will no longer be burdened by a people who have a pretty strong desire to move in a different direction, politically. 

The only people that wish to move in a different direction are the SNP, the Scots have proven that they are happy to remain within our union.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

The only people that wish to move in a different direction are the SNP, the Scots have proven that they are happy to remain within our union.

 

The Scots, by a majority, supported independence in 2014. Independence was, unfortunately, nixed by English and European voters topping up the votes of the minority of Scots who voted in support of the union. But that is how the voting franchise was set up so there is no point complaining. 

 

Since then, more and more English and European voters, plus sceptical Scots, have moved to the indy side. Such that the only people who want to remain in the union are those Labour supporters who still fetishise about a socialist brotherhood, and those ever diminishing tories.

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

You've just told another one; They've had TWO ????

 

And we were denied the outcome of the first.