Brexit brinkmanship: EU orders UK to scrap plan for treaty breach, UK refuses

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, RayC said:

So he wants the benefits that come with having an EU passport without the obligations. A freeloader. I thought that you were vermentally opposed to such individuals?

Freeloading what exactly? Another failed attempt at smear, the Remainer and Left's final flailing attempts at deflection when beaten.

[3NUMBAS]

Brexit LIVE: Boris defeats ‘rebellion’ – set to offer take it or leave it deal to EU today

BORIS JOHNSON has managed to stave off a rebellion over his controversial plans to override the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement and will heap pressure back on the EU today with a take it or leave it deal.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1336577/Brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-eu-uk-brexit-deal-internal-market-bill

that will annoy the french who are spewing bile right now

[RayC]

36 minutes ago, vogie said:

Your post is meaningless rhetoric, what facts are those then 'Ray'

I had the audacity to show a speech being spoken in the chambers in Brussels and because the remainers are uncomfortable with it, the messenger must be destroyed at all costs.

Given that you posted a video under a heading which stated, "EU warned: 'More referendums to come'', I assumed that you believe this statement?

 

As I pointed out, the MEP in the video represents a small minority in his own country, and an even smaller minority in the EU as a whole. I also presented evidence - based on opinion polls - which suggest that this MEP's views are not representative of the views of the majority of the EU public.

 

I am not at all uncomfortable with anyone who has differing views to me expressing them. Isn't this one of the purposes of this board: To debate? It isn't a question of shooting the messenger. However, individuals should expect to be challenged on their views. In this particular case, I challenged you by presenting evidence which suggests that the headline is a minority view and, therefore, incorrect.

 

I see that, once again, you have side-steped my question about why you are so fixated on the EU's destruction?

[RayC]

54 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Freeloading what exactly? Another failed attempt at smear, the Remainer and Left's final flailing attempts at deflection when beaten.

Perhaps I used the wrong term: Hypocrite or freeloader. You decide. 

 

The UK is no longer a member of the EU. Mr. Farage is a UK citizen (presumably) with a UK passport. Why does he need to acquire EU citzenship? After all, what could this corrupt organisation offer that the UK couldn't?

 

The bottom line is that he is taking one of the benefits that come with being a member of the EU without believing in the institution's objectives and/or accepting the obligations that come with it. How very honourable.

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but there is an almost endless supply of untapped data illustrating the duplicity of some Brexiters.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

Given that you posted a video under a heading which stated, "EU warned: 'More referendums to come'', I assumed that you believe this statement?

 

As I pointed out, the MEP in the video represents a small minority in his own country, and an even smaller minority in the EU as a whole. I also presented evidence - based on opinion polls - which suggest that this MEP's views are not representative of the views of the majority of the EU public.

 

I am not at all uncomfortable with anyone who has differing views to me expressing them. Isn't this one of the purposes of this board: To debate? It isn't a question of shooting the messenger. However, individuals should expect to be challenged on their views. In this particular case, I challenged you by presenting evidence which suggests that the headline is a minority view and, therefore, incorrect.

 

I see that, once again, you have side-steped my question about why you are so fixated on the EU's destruction?

Opinion polls are not evidence as much as you would like them to be. And it would appear that you are uncomfortable as many other remainers on here when something is shown that shows the EU in a negative light, it is all hands to the pumps and a case of 'come on boys, let's get him' 

Again you say I have shown you something that shows that I am incorrect, apart from being a very arrogant statement, you have shown me nothing other than a meaningless poll.

 

And I find your suggestion that I am fixated on the EUs destruction highly insulting and a baiting lie.

So now I know who I am speaking to I won't be replying to you again, your insults are not welcome at this address.

 

[7by7]

14 hours ago, Loiner said:

15 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

How do you feel about those amongst the migrants arriving across the channel who are doing so that they can access their family already in the UK? 

 

I feel they ought to be kept on the other side of the channel, or sent back as soon as they jump out of a dinghy. If their family need them so much, they can also take themselves off to the other side of the channel.

 

My question was in response to @nauseus saying that Farage had to take out German citizenship because "He has to be sure that he can access his family in the future - what's the big deal?"

 

So are you saying that if Farage's family need him so much he has to take out German citizenship "to be sure he can access his family in the future" that he should now go to live in Germany?

[7by7]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

I feel that, whoever it is, should arrive legally.

 

Despite what Boris said in August 2019 (can he get anything right?) refugees seeking asylum in the UK can’t be penalised for entering illegally if they are claiming asylum and coming from a place where their life or freedom are threatened. They may also stop over in other “safe” countries en route to the UK.

 

See Can refugees enter the UK illegally?

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Despite what Boris said in August 2019 (can he get anything right?) refugees seeking asylum in the UK can’t be penalised for entering illegally if they are claiming asylum and coming from a place where their life or freedom are threatened. They may also stop over in other “safe” countries en route to the UK.

 

See Can refugees enter the UK illegally?

I notice that you have now (not so deftly) substituted the word migrants with refugees. Was I supposed to miss that? Back of the class you naughty boy!

[polpott]

15 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Despite what Boris said in August 2019 (can he get anything right?) refugees seeking asylum in the UK can’t be penalised for entering illegally if they are claiming asylum and coming from a place where their life or freedom are threatened. They may also stop over in other “safe” countries en route to the UK.

 

See Can refugees enter the UK illegally?

Lorry loads of Vietnamese are being smuggled into the UK on a daily basis, what's unsafe about Vietnam? Saw a boatload of illegals getting off a boat the other day, more than one from Pakistan. What's unsafe about Pakistan? Will US citizens be allowed to claim asylum because of the horrendous number of shootings in the US?

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by polpott

[7by7]

51 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I notice that you have now (not so deftly) substituted the word migrants with refugees. Was I supposed to miss that? Back of the class you naughty boy!

 

Show me where the word 'migrants' appears in your post.

 

You can't; because it doesn't.

 

But for you benefit, a simple explanation. They are migrants when they enter the UK, they become asylum seekers if they claim asylum and refugees if they are granted asylum.

 

If they don't claim asylum and instead disappear then they are illegal immigrants.

 

Got it now?

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Perhaps I used the wrong term: Hypocrite or freeloader. You decide. 

 

The UK is no longer a member of the EU. Mr. Farage is a UK citizen (presumably) with a UK passport. Why does he need to acquire EU citzenship? After all, what could this corrupt organisation offer that the UK couldn't?

 

The bottom line is that he is taking one of the benefits that come with being a member of the EU without believing in the institution's objectives and/or accepting the obligations that come with it. How very honourable.

 

Hate to burst your bubble, but there is an almost endless supply of untapped data illustrating the duplicity of some Brexiters.

Has he acquired EU citizenship, or applying for it? You had better have a look in the files, rather than 'tinterweb thing.

 

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

My question was in response to @nauseus saying that Farage had to take out German citizenship because "He has to be sure that he can access his family in the future - what's the big deal?"

 

So are you saying that if Farage's family need him so much he has to take out German citizenship "to be sure he can access his family in the future" that he should now go to live in Germany?

No, I'm talking about your migrants across the channel. I don't think Nigel or his family fall into the category of migrants, how do you link them?

[7by7]

1 hour ago, polpott said:

Lorry loads of Vietnamese are being smuggled into the UK on a daily basis, what's unsafe about Vietnam? Saw a boatload of illegals getting off a boat the other day, more than one from Pakistan. What's unsafe about Pakistan? Will US citizens be allowed to claim asylum because of the horrendous number of shootings in the US?

 

 

 It is for the UKVI to judge someone's asylum application; not I.

 

But a look through international news will show you that minorities are being persecuted in Pakistan and Vietnam. 

 

As for US citizens, anyone can claim asylum once in the UK; but they do have to prove that they are eligible to be granted it.

 

BTW, how did you know the nationality of those you saw? Did they show you their passports?

Edited September 17, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[7by7]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

No, I'm talking about your migrants across the channel. I don't think Nigel or his family fall into the category of migrants, how do you link them?

 

migrant

/ˈmʌɪɡr(ə)nt/

 

noun

1.

a person who moves from one place to another, especially in order to find work or better living conditions

 

That is how I link them.

 

If Farage didn't want to ensure that he could easily take advantage of the FoM directive to move to Germany, a right he campaigned to deny the rest of us, why did he bother to take out German citizenship? Making his application the day after the referendum!

Quote

Nigel Farage has renewed public profile at head of new Brexit party – but in 2016 German documents and witness confirmed passport application just one day after UK’s EU referendum result – and he has not denied that he holds a German passport when asked

(Source)

 

 

[3NUMBAS]

The UK had been paying about 23% of the EU's bills until we completed the 1st part of our escape. If we had still been in that's €172.5 billion that the UK would have been handing over. There's one other thing about the €750 billion. As the article mentions, the EU Commission, that's the Brussels self appointing bureaucracy, will borrow the money, then for the first time ever, it will set and collect taxes directly to pay off the debt. That is the thin end of the wedge. It opens the door to Brussels setting a European budject and taxes.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1335863/eu-news-germany-france-angela-merkel-emmanuel-macron-eu-coronavirus-frugal-four

[RayC]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

 

 

And I find your suggestion that I am fixated on the EUs destruction highly insulting and a baiting lie.

So now I know who I am speaking to I won't be replying to you again, your insults are not welcome at this address.

 

I believe that it is a justified interpretation of your position based on your comments and therefore not "a baiting lie". 

 

How is that an insult? Based on the articles you post, you appear to want to see the EU disintegrate.

 

Your choice to reply to me or not. My choice to comment on your posts, which I will continue to do if I disagree with them.

 

[Loiner]

33 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

migrant

/ˈmʌɪɡr(ə)nt/

 

noun

1.

a person who moves from one place to another, especially in order to find work or better living conditions

 

That is how I link them.

 

If Farage didn't want to ensure that he could easily take advantage of the FoM directive to move to Germany, a right he campaigned to deny the rest of us, why did he bother to take out German citizenship? Making his application the day after the referendum!

 

 

Nigel Farage was born and lives in Kent. He's therefore not a mAIgr(a)nt, either in UK or Germany. You're not very good at linking are you?

 

Where does your unnamed quote come from - the Stazi, or made up by a Grauniad dial-a-quoter? You believe anything that supports your nonsense?

[polpott]

45 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 It is for the UKVI to judge someone's asylum application; not I.

 

But a look through international news will show you that minorities are being persecuted in Pakistan and Vietnam. 

 

As for US citizens, anyone can claim asylum once in the UK; but they do have to prove that they are eligible to be granted it.

 

BTW, how did you know the nationality of those you saw? Did they show you their passports?

Yep. One group was the group who were found dead in the back of a wagon a few months ago. All Vietnamese. The other group of 30 were featured in a recent TV documentary about smuggling in Cornwall. 30 Vietnamese smuggled into the UK from France in a yacht then transferred to a Luton van. All youngsters. Amazing how many of them claimed to be 16.

 

They pay big money in Vietnam to seek their fortunes in the UK. Not for the poor and persecuted.

[Scott]

Inflammatory post removed.

 

[Proboscis]

On 9/11/2020 at 12:55 PM, JusticeGB said:

Now the EU is showing the true colours of the deal they actually want. After you leave you still have to obey the EU and the ECJ. That's why we voted to leave so that the EU doesn't rule the UK but the UK rules the UK. 

And now you show your true colours. You want the EU citizens to give you a free ride while giving in to your every whim. The UK seems to have trouble enough ruling the UK - can't even get people to wear masks and keep their distance in a pandemic. While I was once a foreign remainer and initially felt sorry that the UK chose to leave, you know what, now I am kinda glad that the UK has gone and my taxes no longer go to paying the Thatcher negotiated rebate and having to put up with the self-entitled "the sun never set on the British Empire" routine, having lived off poor countries that were your colonies for hundreds of years. It is a different world, this 21st century, and I think that the UK is going to learn about it the hard way.

[Airbagwill]

On 9/11/2020 at 6:55 AM, JusticeGB said:

Now the EU is showing the true colours of the deal they actually want. After you leave you still have to obey the EU and the ECJ. That's why we voted to leave so that the EU doesn't rule the UK but the UK rules the UK. 

So if you knew, why did you vote leave?

[Scott]

Posts from an unapproved source have been removed. 

 

 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, Loiner said:

Has he acquired EU citizenship, or applying for it? You had better have a look in the files, rather than 'tinterweb thing.

 

It appears that Mr. Farage hasn't applied for EU citizenship and/or a passport, so I withdraw my previous statement.

[luckyluke]

22 hours ago, Loiner said:

I feel they ought to be kept on the other side of the channel, or sent back as soon as they jump out of a dinghy. If their family need them so much, they can also take themselves off to the other side of the channel.

Fair enough,

now we will have to wait (not so long anyone)  to find out if the U.K. government is agreed with you. 

[Scott]

A post violating Fair Use Policy has been removed.  You are only permitted to quote three sentences of text and then a link to the remainder of the article.  

 

[7by7]

21 hours ago, Loiner said:

Nigel Farage was born and lives in Kent. He's therefore not a mAIgr(a)nt, either in UK or Germany. You're not very good at linking are you?

 When did Kent become part of Germany?

 

21 hours ago, Loiner said:

Where does your unnamed quote come from - the Stazi, or made up by a Grauniad dial-a-quoter?

Unlike you, I provide links to my sources. Hint; it's the word 'Source' in blue in the quote!

 

21 hours ago, Loiner said:

You believe anything that supports your nonsense?

No; Unlike you I check sources before posting them.

 

[7by7]

20 hours ago, polpott said:

<snip>

They pay big money in Vietnam to seek their fortunes in the UK. Not for the poor and persecuted.

 As I said before, it is not for me to judge whether or not someone is a genuine asylum seeker or not; neither is it for you. That is the job of the UKVI.

 

Yes, many do pay big money to people traffickers, often by selling all that they own. Just as many Jewish families did when fleeing the Nazis in the 1930s.

 

Based upon your comment, I can only surmise that you wouldn't have considered them to be genuine refugees!

[Loiner]

5 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 When did Kent become part of Germany?

 

Unlike you, I provide links to my sources. Hint; it's the word 'Source' in blue in the quote!

 

No; Unlike you I check sources before posting them.

 

Good, you've realised that Kent is not in Germany and neither is Farage, so he's not a migrant.
Just something in Blue to me. Where is it from, or were you avoiding that part?

[7by7]

16 hours ago, RayC said:

It appears that Mr. Farage hasn't applied for EU citizenship and/or a passport, so I withdraw my previous statement.

 There is no such thing as EU citizenship, nor an EU passport.

 

But there are reports of Farage applying for a German passport, which he has never denied.

 

There are also reports of his being investigated by the German police because he lied in that application.

 

A simple denial from Farage would clear this up.

 

Odd that he hasn't made one in the 4 years since the story broke; considering how quick he was to deny other accusations, such as his alleged threats to civil servants and breaking quarantine after returning from the US.

 

 

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Good, you've realised that Kent is not in Germany and neither is Farage, so he's not a migrant.

 

I never said Kent was in Germany. I said he'd be a migrant if/when he moves to Germany.

 

You said "Nigel Farage was born and lives in Kent. He's therefore not a mAIgr(a)nt, either in UK or Germany."

 

Do try and keep up with your own posts, even though mine appear to be too complex for you.

 

13 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Just something in Blue to me. Where is it from, or were you avoiding that part?

Hover your mouse over the blue bit and click; simple.

 

If that is too difficult for you to follow: CLICK HERE!