Desperate migrants stranded on Greek island seek shelter, Europe weighs options

[petermik]

10 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think it instructive to observe how far down the ladder of human misery some folk need to climb in order to find someone to tread on in order to parade their sense of superiority.

 

 

Open up your property and you can invite them to stay with you...problem solved

[polpott]

1 minute ago, petermik said:

Open up your property and you can invite them to stay with you...problem solved

Saw a couple of Afghani girls interviewed yesterday. I'd be well up for that.

[Enzian]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

Saw a couple of Afghani girls interviewed yesterday. I'd be well up for that.

The Nigerian Mafia in Italy may well get to them first.

[evadgib]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think it instructive to observe how far down the ladder of human misery some folk need to climb in order to find someone to tread on in order to parade their sense of superiority.

The same can be said of your persistent virtue signalling.

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, DaftToPutRealName said:

A hard truth learnt only over time: many people are in bad situations because of bad luck, timing or ill health.

But many people are in bad situations who deserve it through laziness, cheating, immorality and greed.

Assuming the latter are the former is the danger.

It wasn't bad luck, bad timing or ill health that saw western powers rain down billions of dollars of bombs on their homes and villages. Much of the cheating, immorality and greed to which you refer was in the actions the US and its cronies. We reap what we sow. 

[polpott]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

It wasn't bad luck, bad timing or ill health that saw western powers rain down billions of dollars of bombs on their homes and villages. Much of the cheating, immorality and greed to which you refer was in the actions the US and its cronies. We reap what we sow. 

The vast majority of Syria is no longer in conflict. No more bombing for most. Surely the time is right for them to return to their homes and help rebuild their nation?

[rupert the bear]

they have paid large sums of money to go to the west ,this is legally a criminal conspiracy but.....theyve crossed other borders so they could stay there.they could go to the gulf where climate language culture and religion are similar,govts have money and there is a lot of work but.....this is a massive illegal biz.until we say no it continues.the real poor and victims of syria cant go as they cant pay,its middle class people there that can pay the 10k plus the smugglers demand.we need a reality fix.how many do japan and asia accept ahhh wheres their oil come from but at the end of the day its a commercial transaction they paid for it,the situation is calm in syria now the dictatorship won the fundamentalists lost.so go home and rebuild you cant pick your pres but u can make biz work worship who you like and women are treated better,life aint perfect. europe was in ruins from london to the volga ,pick your self up and get on with it.we did

[RichardColeman]

Sorry, no sympathy. If you think you can burn down you council house and move into my villa then you can get knotted !

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

The same can be said of your persistent virtue signalling.

It clearly cannot, but any excuse to roll out your ‘virtue signalling’.

[CorpusChristie]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

It wasn't bad luck, bad timing or ill health that saw western powers rain down billions of dollars of bombs on their homes and villages. Much of the cheating, immorality and greed to which you refer was in the actions the US and its cronies. We reap what we sow. 

The problems in Syria were caused by a civil war , you know, Syrians fighting against Syrians 

[polpott]

4 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

The problems in Syria were caused by a civil war , you know, Syrians fighting against Syrians 

True but that was engineered by the CIA in a cunning plan to overthrow Assad. As soon as the civil war got going the US military used the very tenuous excuse to pile in.

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, polpott said:

True but that was engineered by the CIA in a cunning plan to overthrow Assad. As soon as the civil war got going the US military used the very tenuous excuse to pile in.

In what way was the civil war engineered by the CIA ?

[polpott]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

In what way was the civil war engineered by the CIA ?

The CIA went into Syria and worked with dissident groups to provide funding, arms and a coordinated ideology. They've done the same a number of times before.

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, polpott said:

The CIA went into Syria and worked with dissident groups to provide funding, arms and a coordinated ideology. They've done the same a number of times before.

Giving support to groups is hardly engineering a civil war 

[polpott]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

Giving support to groups is hardly engineering a civil war 

Isn't it?

[CorpusChristie]

4 minutes ago, polpott said:

Isn't it?

The USA only helped fund the rebels AFTER the civil war had started

[polpott]

Just now, CorpusChristie said:

The USA only helped fund the rebels AFTER the civil war had started

Wrong.

[CorpusChristie]

1 minute ago, polpott said:

Wrong.

Excellent point, well made, cannot disagree with that...................................

[evadgib]

As this thread seems to have meandered into ME politics (and a military slag-a-thon) I may as well park this here:

 

Afghanistan: UK statement on historic talks

 

Key Paragraph:-

 

Quote

The Foreign Secretary welcomed the start of Afghan peace talks in Doha today (Saturday 12 September) and called for both sides to seize the opportunity to end decades of conflict in Afghanistan.

The UK’s military and diplomatic efforts have been critical in supporting Afghanistan over the past 19 years, as it strives to become more stable and prosperous.

In addition, the UK’s world-leading aid expertise has helped millions of children go to school and provided life-saving food to those in need.

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by evadgib

[DaftToPutRealName]

11 hours ago, polpott said:

The source you quoted is a right wing zionist organisation.

 

Here's something less biased:

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/nov/13/blog-posting/claim-george-soros-giving-migrants-debit-cards-has/

 

 

How can that be a "less biased" source, when it debunks a claim about people giving migrants debit cards - a claim that I have not made...?

Funding through multiple umbrella organisations, offshore shuffling of incorporation and otherwise other ways to obscure original source of funds and the ultimate NGO holder... has nothing to do with debit cards and I never said they did...

[Morch]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

It wasn't bad luck, bad timing or ill health that saw western powers rain down billions of dollars of bombs on their homes and villages. Much of the cheating, immorality and greed to which you refer was in the actions the US and its cronies. We reap what we sow. 

 

Oh, you're doing the the self-flagellation thing again? Western powers? Just Western powers? Not, by any chance Assad's forces? Not Russia? Not Turkey's? Just them evil westerners?

[Morch]

9 hours ago, polpott said:

True but that was engineered by the CIA in a cunning plan to overthrow Assad. As soon as the civil war got going the US military used the very tenuous excuse to pile in.

 

9 hours ago, polpott said:

The CIA went into Syria and worked with dissident groups to provide funding, arms and a coordinated ideology. They've done the same a number of times before.

 

He said knowingly. While adjusting his tin-foil hat.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, DaftToPutRealName said:

How can that be a "less biased" source, when it debunks a claim about people giving migrants debit cards - a claim that I have not made...?

Funding through multiple umbrella organisations, offshore shuffling of incorporation and otherwise other ways to obscure original source of funds and the ultimate NGO holder... has nothing to do with debit cards and I never said they did...

 

Well, the claim you've made, and didn't bother to support with anything, is a conspiracy theory. The source's bias ranking is explained on the website linked. Other than that, you say potato.

[Opl]

Due to continued arrivals of people from Africa, Asia and the M.E fleeing poverty and conflicts since decades, public opinions in Europe stand by Greece's side, the repeated destruction of camps doesn't draw more  sympathy for migrants who force their way smuggling into Europe as most of them don't adhere to our values and represent a social and economic burden.

It's easier to protest in Europe than in their homelands,  

  

 

 

"Greece is in the eye of the two storms tearing Europe apart, first pummelled by austerity and now quarantined to keep migrants at bay. Its people have opened their hearts and homes to those in need, even as wealthier countries close their borders. But with the twin crises festering, this impoverished nation of 11 million is being pushed to breaking point."

https://webdoc.france24.com/greece-migrants-refugees-lesbos-moria-turkey/

February 2020 

"A refugee protest was violently suppressed by Greek riot police earlier this week on the Island of Lesbos. According to aid workers, up to 2,000 refugees mainly Afghans, Iranians and Syrians, marched out of Moria refugee camp over delays in asylum cases, worsening conditions and extreme overcrowding"

https://english.alaraby.co.uk/english/indepth/2020/2/6/refugees-and-riot-police-clash-on-greek-islands

Edited September 12, 2020 by Opl

[DaftToPutRealName]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Well, the claim you've made, and didn't bother to support with anything, is a conspiracy theory.

I posted an incredibly detailed document highlighting the entire history of Soros, pages of information about his charities, scandals (existing and past) around funding, issues with the stated purposes of the charities etc. including people and sex trafficking.

I'm sorry if you didn't bother to read it.

 

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 The source's bias ranking is explained on the website linked. Other than that, you say potato.

The source's "bias ranking" is about an incredibly specific argument about Soros providing debit cards to migrants - an argument that I  never made. 

Potato.

[RuamRudy]

14 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Oh, you're doing the the self-flagellation thing again? Western powers? Just Western powers? Not, by any chance Assad's forces? Not Russia? Not Turkey's? Just them evil westerners?

The point was more to do with their motivation to leave rather than the provenance of said motivation.

[Morch]

29 minutes ago, DaftToPutRealName said:

I posted an incredibly detailed document highlighting the entire history of Soros, pages of information about his charities, scandals (existing and past) around funding, issues with the stated purposes of the charities etc. including people and sex trafficking.

I'm sorry if you didn't bother to read it.

 

The source's "bias ranking" is about an incredibly specific argument about Soros providing debit cards to migrants - an argument that I  never made. 

Potato.

 

You've linked to a long document which is hyper-biased in terms of content and framing, authored by one who is not necessarily an authority on such matters, and hosted by a body with a clear agenda. Now, we might have different notions regarding objectivity, bias and what's on, but guess we'll not come to much understanding.

 

And indeed, I did not bother reading the document - as I've done so in the past (it was published a while back). Kinda well familiar with the hosting venue, and the sort of partisan world view attached, too.

 

Your want to call potato while arguing on the exact method the supposedly nefarious Soros is achieving his "evil" goals? Go right ahead.   

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The point was more to do with their motivation to leave rather than the provenance of said motivation.

 

Not sure which argument is offered:

 

- That refugees motivation to leave was related solely to Western attacks?

- That since Westerners started it all (obviously, no need to substantiate things) anything else that followed is immaterial.

 

Neither is compelling, neither is strongly supported by fact.

 

 

[evadgib]

With the number of surplus cruise ships in the Med and the English channel of late it would make sense for them to be requisitioned & used as fast track processing centres (at anchor in international waters) for all boat-hoppers trying to barge their way into EU/UK. All unsuccessful applicants (the 99% abusing the 'refugee/asylum' process) can then be backloaded to N Africa/France or their country of origin (at their own expense) or to the nearest UN facility where they can join the queue of genuine applicants.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

With the number of surplus cruise ships in the Med and the English channel of late it would make sense for them to be requisitioned & used as fast track processing centres (at anchor in international waters) for all boat-hoppers trying to barge their way into EU/UK. All unsuccessful applicants (the 99% abusing the 'refugee/asylum' process) can then be backloaded to N Africa/France or their country of origin (at their own expense) or to the nearest UN facility where they can join the queue of genuine applicants.

Can you back up your assertion of ‘99% abusing the refugee/asylum process’?

 

When you done that you can explain how this cruise ship plan of yours works under international and maritime law paying particular attention to the ‘flag’ under which each cruise ship is registered.