Why the hysteria over wearing a mask, but not a helmet?

[sawadee1947]

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If Covid-19 sweeps through a factory of ‘working age’ individuals, will any of them show symptoms? is it necessary to shut anything down at all ????

 

A significant part of this discussion has to involve the fact that this illness actually impacts very few people. 

 

I think figures of asymptotic Covid-19 cases of around 85% have been thrown around while 10% show a range of mild symptoms and 5% which seems to include those with other serious illnesses or in high risk age groups requiring treatment and <1% dying from Covid-19. 

 

I’m not sure factories would need to close down at all. 

 

Those at risk clearly need protection, but not at such devastating cost to the economy. 

 

Another facet: while Tourism accounts for 17.6% of Thailands GDP there are significant ‘link up’ industries which also rely heavily, from raw food production to the junk sold in markets and many many more items... Thailands income from tourism could be far more significant to those in positions of need. 

 

 

Obviously you didn't think to the end..... 

Example:

If there is a case in a factory this person will infect not only his co-workers but also his family and friends and friends of friends aso. 

Therefore there is no alternative but a lock down or close down. ????

[sawadee1947]

23 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

What figures? Your quote of me doesn't include any and the argument presented directly doesn't rely on any figures at all so I'm confused as to what you are talking about. Did you want to quote some other post?

Sorry sorry, it was meant for 

Thomas J. 

[Mattd]

On 9/12/2020 at 2:08 PM, pixelaoffy said:

Because of Thai mentality! They believe all the b*** about infection and are scared they might be infected but don't believe they will have an accident despite driving like idiots!

Unfortunately this is very close to the truth, it is all about the perception of risk, there has been so much hype around COVID-19 that the average Thai is scared of it and they perceive that THEIR risk of getting infected is lowered by wearing a mask.

 

I don't agree with those that say you cannot compare the two, absolutely you can, as it is a purely a perception issue, the wearing of a mask has, unfortunately, very little to do with caring for others, in reality the chances of dying from COVID in Thailand are extremely remote, as opposed to the chances of dying from a motorcycle accident with no helmet are high, in general this is not how it is perceived.

 

If the government put as much effort in to creating the same level of risk perception in to road safety, hundreds of thousands of lives would be saved over the years, which in turn would save untold heartache and grief for the surviving family members that lasts for years, there are very few families in Thailand that have not been affected by a road death.

Those that say it is different are not in the real world.

 

I am not saying that wearing a mask is a bad thing to control the virus, what I am saying is that the virus and associated hype has proven that you can change peoples perceptions and that the government should apply this logic to road safety with the same vigour, it would pay dividends.

[Fairynuff]

6 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Peterw42  Fairynuff,

 

You miss the entire point of the original post.  If DEATHS are a concern, why the hysteria over Covid and not wearing a motorcycle helmet.  Even if I give you the fact that the hysteria is due to the fact that catching a virus is not a personal decision.  Then why not hysteria over TB.  Thailand is among nations in the world with the highest incidence of TB and the latest figures show that 13 people per 100,000 die from TB in Thailand annually.  That is 9,200 deaths 

TB is spread exactly like Covid from contact.  It has been as high as 18 per 100,000 as recently as 2005.  However despite many more deaths, there were no lockdowns, no shutting the borders, no masks required, no shuttering of businesses. Again if deaths are the issue why is Covid treated differently than TB 

 

You have no point to make with these kind of comparisons when TB and Covid are very very different. I dare say you’ll have more to say on this but I won’t be listening until you have something of value to say.

[RocketDog]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:22 PM, Thomas J said:

Peter42 

Ok but then why not the hysteria over TB?  

Do you choose to catch that?  Death rate from TB in Thailand is 13 per 100,000 that translates to 9,230 people vs 58 covid deaths. 


 

TB is considerably less contagious and a mask will protect against that too. So you just countered your own argument. Will you be wearing a mask when (if) the Covid threat diminishes? 

[Thomas J]

On 9/14/2020 at 10:15 AM, Peterw42 said:

There are many subtle but important differences between covid and TB, Covid is a virus, TB is a bacterial infection

Peter42

 

How about this for  SUBTLE DIFFERENCE  There are a total of 58 deaths from Covid and over 9000 from this supposedly more benign bacterial infection. Again may be more difficult to get but obviously not so difficult in Thailand. 

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

Peter42

 

How about this for  SUBTLE DIFFERENCE  There are a total of 58 deaths from Covid and over 9000 from this supposedly more benign bacterial infection. Again may be more difficult to get but obviously not so difficult in Thailand. 

How many could there be with no countermeasures? You don't even have to do the math, I did that for you in an earlier reply. And you are ignoring all the other arguments again.

[richard_smith237]

On 9/14/2020 at 12:53 PM, sawadee1947 said:

On 9/13/2020 at 9:25 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

If Covid-19 sweeps through a factory of ‘working age’ individuals, will any of them show symptoms? is it necessary to shut anything down at all ????

 

A significant part of this discussion has to involve the fact that this illness actually impacts very few people. 

 

I think figures of asymptotic Covid-19 cases of around 85% have been thrown around while 10% show a range of mild symptoms and 5% which seems to include those with other serious illnesses or in high risk age groups requiring treatment and <1% dying from Covid-19. 

 

I’m not sure factories would need to close down at all. 

 

Those at risk clearly need protection, but not at such devastating cost to the economy. 

 

Another facet: while Tourism accounts for 17.6% of Thailands GDP there are significant ‘link up’ industries which also rely heavily, from raw food production to the junk sold in markets and many many more items... Thailands income from tourism could be far more significant to those in positions of need. 

 

 

Obviously you didn't think to the end..... 

Example:

If there is a case in a factory this person will infect not only his co-workers but also his family and friends and friends of friends aso. 

Therefore there is no alternative but a lock down or close down. ????

I agree with you, if I were naive enough to believe that Thailand will never ever encounter a Covid-19 outbreak.

I agree with you if Thailand can remain locked down to the outside world until such a time a >90% effective is created and widely available to everyone in Thailand. 

 

However, ’no alternative but a lockdown or close down’ is a death knell to a country...  

 

Covid-19 is not an automatic death sentence. People need to stop reacting as if it is. 

CDC reports 94% comorbidity. Those of working age a very unlikely to contract Covid-19, or can become asymptomatic carriers. 

 

Those at ‘high risk’ need protection - i.e. through social isolation / segregation - this is possible - additional for these people is possible to help them remain isolated. 

Meanwhile those working in factories can continue working, those in the tourist industry can continue working, the economy can continue turning as best as possible. 

 

There will be outbreaks within Thailand, but if Thailand has not already had a massive ‘undocumented’ outbreak back in Nov / Dec then an outbreak is inevitable anyway. 

 

How has Thailand avoided the massive deaths from a Covid-19 outbreak ??? quite possibly because the outbreak already happened in a country with 1300 hospitals and 500,000+ deaths a year anyway, an outbreaking which involved 20,000 deaths (back in Nov / Dec / Jan / Feb) would have been difficult to recognise unless doctors specifically raised the alert. Which they did reporting an major increase in viral pneumonia cases. 

 

So.... Thailand may very well be locking down to a virus which has already swept the nation. In which case the decision to continue lock down is unnecessarily placing 25% of jobs at risk and killing off significant portion of its GDP.

 

At the very least Thailand should be investigating and finding this out rather than blindly responding to paranoia and fear with continued lock down. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thomas J]

2 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

How many could there be with no countermeasures? You don't even have to do the math, I did that for you in an earlier reply. And you are ignoring all the other arguments again.

OK esifeld

You still seem to miss the point of the original post.  Why the absolute insane pre-occupation with the deaths of 58 people while deaths from other causes that the government could do something about get ignored.  

 

Try this one.  There are about 23,000 people who die each year in Thailand from traffic accidents.  Thailand is reported to be the most deadly in Asia.  
Alcohol and drugs are LEADING contributors to these accidents.  

I don't "choose" to get killed by a drunk driver.  

Why does Thailand seem so insanely concerned over 58 peoples deaths from Covid. Locking the country down, making people wear masks, shuttering businesses, killing the economy.  Yet it does virtually nothing to stop the deaths on the streets from drunk driving.  I may not "choose" Covid but I also don't choose to get killed from a drunk driver and my chances of the latter are much much much greater.  The response to Covid seems irrational and out of proportion to deaths from other causes that the government could do far more and save far more lives. 

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30343266#:~:text=DRUNK DRIVING is seen as,Road Safety Centre announced yesterday.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/03/asia/thailand-road-deaths-new-year-intl/index.html#:~:text=The World Health Organization estimated,the deadliest in Southeast Asia. 

https://www.nationthailand.com/news/30343266#:~:text=DRUNK DRIVING is seen as,Road Safety Centre announced yesterday.
 

[eisfeld]

Again whataboutism and going in circles. I'm out of here.

[Thomas J]

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Again whataboutism and going in circles. I'm out of here.

Eisfeld,

 

Good because you obviously missed the entire point of the post that the world is going around like Chicken Little over very few deaths yet deaths from traffic accidents, not wearing helmets, DUI crashes, suicides from no job, TB, or HIV infections don't even raise an eyebrow

Edited September 15, 2020 by Thomas J

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Again whataboutism and going in circles. I'm out of here.

 

You have to admit that the point Thomas J makes is extremely valid. 

 

When looking at the aggregate picture of ‘preserving life’ or avoiding unnecessary deaths the response to Covid-19 is disproportionate in the extreme compared to other major causes of disease and death in Thailand, about which, far more could easily be done but for some inexplicable reason very little is done - yet the response to Covid-19 is significant in the extreme. 

 

 

Without the ‘counter measures’ deaths from Covid-19 could have been much higher, IF Covid-19 was starting to spread in late March. However, scores of Chinese entered Thailand throughout the year, partially in November, December, January and February while there was an ongoing epidemic in China. 

 

Thailand’s lock down started when Europe reacted extremely. It's quite possible the virus risk had already passed by then and the majority of the population had been exposed, herd immunity is now in place. 

 

This is unknown because no one is testing for continued asymptomatic cases or evidence of previous infection (even utilising antibody tests which are known to be somewhat inaccurate but also indicative).

 

From which ever perspective we look at this, Thailand's ambivalence to its road fatality statics is atrocious, while its reaction to Covid-19 is astonishing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by richard_smith237

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Without the ‘counter measures’ deaths from Covid-19 could have been much higher,

Richard_Smith237

 

Thank you for your comments.  The "counter measures" "may" have been a help.  Who knows.  Sweden did nothing and its Covid infection rate is about the same as Belgium and it is lower than Spain both of those countries imposed severe Covid restrictions. 

Additionally, while the measures "may" have lowered Covid deaths the incidence of suicides is up 22% due to the economic stress those same measures put on the locals.  Also there is some speculation that the quarantine increased the number of people infected with TB because of the continued close quarter contact. One way or another the number of people killed each day on Thai roads is 45 and a significant portion of them are alcohol and drug influenced.  While I appreciate that all lives are precious, the hysteria and destruction of the economy for a disease that if you catch you have a 96% chance of recovery and even over 80 have an 85% chance of recovery is mind boggling.  If I am hit by a drunk driver my chances of recovery from a serious accident are appreciably less than that.  Yet those deaths seem not to matter.  Certainly if the law enforcement was as serious at stopping and doing random drug and alcohol checks the way the stores are monitoring your temperature at every store, it would save many many more lives.