Chances of Brexit deal fading every day, EU Commission chief says

[puipuitom]

18 hours ago, kingdong said:

should get a few bob for that big red bus,tariffs?theres a whole world out there outside the eu.

Only so pity many of the British trading partners already have an agreement with the EU. You think they will give a better deal to a small island of 67 mln consumers as to a block of 450 mln ?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

She's head of the European Commission, so you would certainly expect her to make factually correct statements. And she did.

And you deduced that from the clip? She's a strange sort of 'left winger' given that she's a member of the centre-right CDU!

It was a typical load of waffling self-promoting propaganda. There was also a disparaging mention of the "right wing", which strangely is not in the official text of her speech - again typical EU. 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by nauseus

[Loiner]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

*37% of the UK - although that was at the time of the vote. Support probably much lower now. 

100% of Brexit already actually happened as promised. 
100% of No Deal is better than a bad deal almost there.

[Loiner]

15 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Boris:   “We are getting ready to come out on October the 31st…Do or die, come what may”

Boris:   “There are no circumstances in which I will ask Brussels to delay. We are leaving on 31 October, no ifs or buts” (2 September, speaking in Downing Street)

Boris: “I am confident of getting a deal. We will leave on 31 October in all circumstances. There will be no further pointless delay.” (3 September, speech in Commons)

Boris:  "We could construct a relationship with the EU that more closely resembled that of Norway or Switzerland — except that we would be inside the single market council, and able to shape legislation". (2013)

 

Problem with Boris is that you can never believe a word he says.

 

 

I believed "Get Brexit Done".

[dunroaming]

1 minute ago, Loiner said:

I believed "Get Brexit Done".

I think most of us never doubted Boris would get Brexit done.  But which version of Brexit.  He promised so many from "the easiest deal ever" to "oven ready" even to the point of signing the withdrawal agreement and now trying to renege on it.

 

I understand he is trying to sound macho before folding and agreeing a deal which he will almost certainly do.  

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

And who pays this "free money"? I'm sure the EU proles will be delighted that they're paying tariffs on those goods for the EU to collect and redistribute to their poorer neighbours as they see fit. I'm sure the French fisherman will be delighted that they've lost their jobs. The German car factory workers getting laid off because BMW, VW, Benz etc. are now all too expensive in the UK and we're buying Japanese and South Korean cars because THEY were happy to do a fair, balanced trade deal.

 

And all because of Barnier's intransigence. He's sure to be popular.????

Your really think, the rich in the UK will choose for a Honda instead of now a Mercedes of BMW ? For the EU car makers, the UK will soon be whiped out as competitor on the EU market and will have difficulties to get the about 50% parts and components they import now from the EU seen probably import duties into the UK.

Those french and other fishermen can easily be compensated as all UK fish import into the EU will stop seen veterinary regulations and agricultural levies.

Financial regulations to let all €-transactions go over €uroland will eliminate the City of London in a short time.

But the real danger, I am astonished nobody wants to see: You really think any food or non-food retailer will run the risk of higher price seen import duty into the EU for British products, even worse: not in time supply ? Now, they already finished their plans for 2021 and .. sorry... Mainland EU products as much as possible.

For the industry: you think they will run the risk of NOT having British raw materials, parts and components, with the result their entire production line will stop ? Of course not, they already have alternatives. As supermarket and as industrial buyer I had to think 2-6 months ahead, End of October all contracts for the next year were already finished seen decisions made latest end of September. That's why SIAL-Paris and ANUGA-Cologne, world food fairs, are organised Mid of Sept..

The European Quay is already organised to turn the British Ship, only the sailors ( yes, British for people working on board of a ship, 2020... sail... nothing new the last 150 years, forgot the steam and diesel era) did not notice that.  Rule Britannia, Britannia, rule the waves!... Yes, a few miles of the seas around these tiny British ( or soon: English) isles.

"When Britain first, at heaven's command,"  According Trump it is: "America First". 

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I think most of us never doubted Boris would get Brexit done.  But which version of Brexit.  He promised so many from "the easiest deal ever" to "oven ready" even to the point of signing the withdrawal agreement and now trying to renege on it.

 

I understand he is trying to sound macho before folding and agreeing a deal which he will almost certainly do.  

In all fairness DR what version of Brexit would the remainer parliament have accepted, as proven, none. Parliament had 3 chances to get a Brino and each time rejected that chance, why, because they wanted to revoke art50/peoples vote, well it looks like it has backfired for the remainers but instead of saying 'we gave it our best shot' now we are seeing non stop unbridled insults from the remainers and the Euros, you are just as instrumental if it results in a no deal just as much as the leavers, infact more.

Edited September 17, 2020 by vogie

[welovesundaysatspace]

54 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Looks like Pelosi's threat means nowt.

And Biden, the next loser, has been told to stay out of it because he doesn't know what he's talking about anyway.

Nice example showing why educated people don’t read the garbage press. (1) Quoting only half the statement (2) Using it to falsely claim something that he didn’t say (3) Completely missing the point that it’s the (Democrats controlled) congress that decides (4) Enough to keep their imbecile readers entertained. 
 

Not surprised Brexiteers read these Mickey Mouse papers. 

[puipuitom]

7 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I think most of us never doubted Boris would get Brexit done.  But which version of Brexit.  He promised so many from "the easiest deal ever" to "oven ready" even to the point of signing the withdrawal agreement and now trying to renege on it.

 

I understand he is trying to sound macho before folding and agreeing a deal which he will almost certainly do.  

2021: The British discover, they are now only English.

2022: The English discover, their industry is in disaster. Want to apply for an association with the EU. The Gaelic Confederation votes against.

2023: Theresa May + David Cameron are asked to beg in Brussels for a new association, or better EU membership. Ukraine and Belarus use their veto: first these countries...

2030: England is allowed a junior EU membership. No funds out of EU, no voting rights, and sign for at least 25 years silent membership. Only two British oppose: Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings. They could not follow other leading Brexiteers, who organised their finances much better after 2021, when all got the idea, it might go wrong.

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Fog in the channel. Europe cut off.

People living in the EU will be able to source alternatives to UK produce which will be tariff free. So probably not that much of a big deal for them.

Ah fishing. The Holy Grail of Brexiteers. Many of those French fishermen bought a quota license from UK fishermen. They will still be able to fish in UK waters.

The German car industry was quite clear. Protecting the single market was the priority for them. They will still have a domestic market of 350 million to sell cars to. But those car manufacturers in the UK are going to have a tough time. A small domestic market and tariffs to the EU. Ironically German car manufacturers might see increased car sales. Someone in the EU who is thinking of buying a Nissan for example can now get a German car for about the same price.

Balanced trade deal?

https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178

The UK’s new trade deal with Japan commits it to tougher restrictions on state aid than the ones it is currently offering the EU in the Brexit talks, potentially undermining its negotiating position with Brussels.

 

What was that thing you were saying about sovereignty?

 

domestic EU market = 450 million + many associated countries.

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

In all fairness DR what version of Brexit would the remainer parliament have accepted, as proven, none. Parliament had 3 chances to get a Brino and each time rejected that chance, why, because they wanted to revoke art50/peoples vote, well it looks like it has backfired for the remainers but instead of saying 'we gave it our best shot' now we are seeing non stop unbridled insults from the remainers and the Euros, you are just as instrumental if it results in a no deal just as much as the leavers, infact more.

Won't be a no deal though will it.  In the end Johnson will agree a deal.  He is already rowing back on fishing rites apparently, according to one report last night, not verified as yet.  As I said before I understand Boris going for the macho approach but by dragging the UK's reputation through the mud like this, he is embarrassing us all.

 

I don't have a dog in the race, haven't for a long time as I moved my business to mainland Europe some time ago.  I still live in the UK for now but I always planned on retirement in Europe anyway.  Still doesn't mean that I don't mourn what these cretins are doing to a once brilliant Britain

[dunroaming]

5 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

2021: The British discover, they are now only English.

2022: The English discover, their industry is in disaster. Want to apply for an association with the EU. The Gaelic Confederation votes against.

2023: Theresa May + David Cameron are asked to beg in Brussels for a new association, or better EU membership. Ukraine and Belarus use their veto: first these countries...

2030: England is allowed a junior EU membership. No funds out of EU, no voting rights, and sign for at least 25 years silent membership. Only two British oppose: Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummings. They could not follow other leading Brexiteers, who organised their finances much better after 2021, when all got the idea, it might go wrong.

Interesting view but I think you are wrong about Boris Johnson.  He will have left the UK long before then

[puipuitom]

7 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Ah I see.

 

Tariffs on UK goods to the EU is great for the EU because it's "free money" for the EU and will stop EU citizens buying UK goods because they can buy them tariff free elsewhere.

 

But tariffs on EU goods to the UK is terrible for the UK because it increases prices for consumers but they will just continue to buy them at increased prices anyway even though they are available tariff free elsewhere.

 

Got it. ????

Why Brexiteers always forget to look at WHICH products they export to the EU ( industrial output, services from the City of London, can be replaces in days) and import (specially fresh food, as the UK can produce only a 60% of their needs.). So, swap to frozen and canned...

Second: forget the transit time and costs per seafreight compared with lorries, just in 12 hours in London ( under the "old" EU tree travel agreement) 

[RayC]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

In all fairness DR what version of Brexit would the remainer parliament have accepted, as proven, none. Parliament had 3 chances to get a Brino and each time rejected that chance, why, because they wanted to revoke art50/peoples vote, well it looks like it has backfired for the remainers but instead of saying 'we gave it our best shot' now we are seeing non stop unbridled insults from the remainers and the Euros, you are just as instrumental if it results in a no deal just as much as the leavers, infact more.

Absolutely rubbish, Vogie. Brexiters elected this government. You own it. Don't try and pin the blame on people like me.

[Chivas]

Theres zero chance of any Brexit deal because of the simple reason Cummings and his junior assistant Johnson dont want one in the first place

We are going no deal make no mistake and the catastrophic brexit fiasco will be duly complete

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

You appear to be forgetting that there are 166 countries not in the EU and 27 in it.

 

There are plenty of options of where to buy food and drink. Many of these countries we will have (or already have) FTA's with, which will make EU products comparatively more expensive.

 

The EU isn't the only shop in the village, as they're about to find out. There won't be a shortage of countries willing to sell us their produce, I can assure you.

 

The EU has a massive trade surplus with the UK. If they want to keep it, they can sign a fair, balanced FTA with us. If not, we'll buy from countries that will.

see https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47213842

"Brexit: Japan tells UK to agree to trade terms in six weeks or face disruption",  ( 23 June 2020), see https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-japan-uk-trade-deal-boris-johnson-eu-transition-market-access-a9580731.html

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Won't be a no deal though will it.  In the end Johnson will agree a deal.  He is already rowing back on fishing rites apparently, according to one report last night, not verified as yet.  As I said before I understand Boris going for the macho approach but by dragging the UK's reputation through the mud like this, he is embarrassing us all.

 

I don't have a dog in the race, haven't for a long time as I moved my business to mainland Europe some time ago.  I still live in the UK for now but I always planned on retirement in Europe anyway.  Still doesn't mean that I don't mourn what these cretins are doing to a once brilliant Britain

It appears you have more foresight than Septic Peg, nobody knows the outcome, well except you of course. But saying Boris is dragging the UKs reputation through the mud is simply not true, remember the days of yore when May and her faithfull pardner Ollie were making the UK the laughing stock of europe, well since Boris has taken the reins the snide remarks from our friends in Brussells have subsided, they havn't a clue what's hit them, as Roy Orbison once sang ' Running Scared'. The country has got most of it's pride back. Of course many remainers on here wish our country to fail as proven by the many posts on here, it is totally disheartening to read fellow Brits decrying our country all the time, whilst wearing their blue berets with a circle of blue stars, totally understandable the Euros calling us, they are bitter we have left and somebody will have to pay for the fiscal deficit, but the UK will do just fine.

 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, RayC said:

Absolutely rubbish, Vogie. Brexiters elected this government. You own it. Don't try and pin the blame on people like me.

Too late, I already have!

[dunroaming]

27 minutes ago, vogie said:

In all fairness DR what version of Brexit would the remainer parliament have accepted, as proven, none. Parliament had 3 chances to get a Brino and each time rejected that chance, why, because they wanted to revoke art50/peoples vote, well it looks like it has backfired for the remainers but instead of saying 'we gave it our best shot' now we are seeing non stop unbridled insults from the remainers and the Euros, you are just as instrumental if it results in a no deal just as much as the leavers, infact more.

True enough what RayC says Vogie.  Johnson won with an overwhelming majority which is why he can get away with trashing Britain this way.  He was the one who signed the withdrawal agreement and if you look at the video at the time he was high fiving  the room in Brussels including Barnier and even hugging Macron.  He then declared it a complete success and "fantastic deal" in the house.  Now he tries to renege on that treaty which is toe curlingly embarrassing and has lost him a massive amount of support in his own party and beyond.

[RayC]

59 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It was a typical load of waffling self-promoting propaganda. There was also a disparaging mention of the "right wing", which strangely is not in the official text of her speech - again typical EU. 

 

So factually correct statements now equates to self-promoting propaganda? Sadly, the only phrase that looks false was the part where Von der Leyden quotes Thatcher; you know, the bit about the UK not breaking international agreements.

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

The fact the Thatcher manged to get a rebate proves that we were being ripped off from the start.

 

Blair manged to give some of this back and if we had stayed in then it would have disappeared entirely. 

 

Your rebate figure is wrong, as is your so-called "shortfall" theory - if we pay no contributions we will keep about 13 billion straight away.

You mean: the EU accepted the blackmail and pressure of Thatcher. 

For net contribution: I understand you do not believe your own House Of Commons, but.. according to them, the net UK contribution is around GBP 8 billion ( seen EU imports from UK 290 B, a 3% import levy is worth more. And the reality.. it's a LOT more.. ) 

[NeoDinosaw]

19 hours ago, kingdong said:

what did i win?did an apprenticeship and lost my job through thatcher,retrained and lost my job through labour who i always (past tense ) voted for,so never mind me, so  who do,es the working man in britain supposed to vote for?

Lib-Dems  or Greens.  The problem is that the average UK voter is as stupid as those in the USA.   They see it as a 2-horse race; they try to guess who will win , then vote for that party and feel good if their man (or lady) wins.  Most of them do not understand what ig going on - you can seen this from interviews with voters in the street.  They voted for Boris because he was 'a bit of a laugh'  

[7by7]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

<snip>

I'm sure the EU proles will be delighted that they're paying tariffs on those goods

 You are an advocate of a no deal and trading under WTO terms, are you not?

 

How do you think those of us here in the UK will feel about the higher cost of goods, including food, because of those tariffs?

 

If that happens, I bet those complaining loudest will be the Brexiteers who fell for Cummings' 'Project Fear' line whenever Remain mentioned the possibility.

 

But I have no doubt that you and they will find a way of blaming the EU.

Edited September 17, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

True enough what RayC says Vogie.  Johnson won with an overwhelming majority which is why he can get away with trashing Britain this way.  He was the one who signed the withdrawal agreement and if you look at the video at the time he was high fiving  the room in Brussels including Barnier and even hugging Macron.  He then declared it a complete success and "fantastic deal" in the house.  Now he tries to renege on that treaty which is toe curlingly embarrassing and has lost him a massive amount of support in his own party and beyond.

It would have never got to that stage if the remainer parliament had voted for Mays deal, the greedy duplicitous remainers in parliament are the reason where we are today, simple as, and I'm sure I can speak for all Brexiteers when I thank them each and every one. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by vogie

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

20 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Boris has proven he has no intention of keeping his?

Boris: “I will get Brexit done.”

 

UK: “Thanks Boris that’s the only promise we need and it’s happening now.”

 He loudly trumpeted for several months up to signing it, when he signed it and for several months after that his WA would get Brexit done!

 

Now he's suddenly wants to unilaterally break that WA!

 

How ill that get Brexit done?

 

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

You mean: the EU accepted the blackmail and pressure of Thatcher. 

For net contribution: I understand you do not believe your own House Of Commons, but.. according to them, the net UK contribution is around GBP 8 billion ( seen EU imports from UK 290 B, a 3% import levy is worth more. And the reality.. it's a LOT more.. ) 

What are the 2018 charts and tables for?

 

I mean Thatcher put a stop to some of the EU blackmailing. 

The recent UK net contribution has averaged around 9 billion. 

The rebate has been about 4 billion recently - not 6.6 billion 

And of course the trade deficit was £72 billion in 2019. Super.

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, NeoDinosaw said:

Lib-Dems  or Greens.  The problem is that the average UK voter is as stupid as those in the USA.   They see it as a 2-horse race; they try to guess who will win , then vote for that party and feel good if their man (or lady) wins.  Most of them do not understand what ig going on - you can seen this from interviews with voters in the street.  They voted for Boris because he was 'a bit of a laugh'  

Are you the one on the run from Jurassic Park?

[dunroaming]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

It appears you have more foresight than Septic Peg, nobody knows the outcome, well except you of course. But saying Boris is dragging the UKs reputation through the mud is simply not true, remember the days of yore when May and her faithfull pardner Ollie were making the UK the laughing stock of europe, well since Boris has taken the reins the snide remarks from our friends in Brussells have subsided, they havn't a clue what's hit them, as Roy Orbison once sang ' Running Scared'. The country has got most of it's pride back. Of course many remainers on here wish our country to fail as proven by the many posts on here, it is totally disheartening to read fellow Brits decrying our country all the time, whilst wearing their blue berets with a circle of blue stars, totally understandable the Euros calling us, they are bitter we have left and somebody will have to pay for the fiscal deficit, but the UK will do just fine.

 

Brits are not decrying our country, they are decrying this shower of morons who are now running it.  Certainly many businesses have moved or are moving, if they can, to mainland Europe or further afield, but that is business.  Most I know, would move back to blighty in a heartbeat if and when they could.

 

You say that you think that Britain has got most of it's pride back?  Well if that is by having a liar and a charlatan in charge who flaunts international law and is constantly failing in everything he does then you and I have a different view of pride.  As for remarks from Brussels, doesn't sound like they are running scared of anything.  They are, as always, consistent and balanced in their responses, unlike the manic ravings of our own PM.

[dunroaming]

14 minutes ago, vogie said:

It would have never got to that stage if the remainer parliament had voted for Mays deal, the greedy duplicitous remainers in parliament are the reason where we are today, simple as, and I'm sure I can speak for all Brexiteers when I thank them each and every one. 

Don't thank the Brexiteers I know, they are all too busy holding their heads in their hands to listen.

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, vogie said:

It would have never got to that stage if the remainer parliament had voted for Mays deal, the greedy duplicitous remainers in parliament are the reason where we are today, simple as, and I'm sure I can speak for all Brexiteers when I thank them each and every one. 

Vogie you cant expect remainers to vote for any form of Brexit. Even Brino as you like to call it.

This is because they want to remain in the EU.

Staying in the EU is a known value. We know what it means.

You Brexiteers voted to leave without the terms and conditions being defined. Hence the absolute shambles which has followed.

I dont blame you Vogie. You voted for what you thought was best for the country.

The people I blame are those who lied to you about what Brexit would look like when we eventually left.

Johnson, Gove, Farage and Cummins to name but a few.