Little hope for reform of Thailand’s police – Senator Kamnoon

[quake]

41 minutes ago, essox essox said:

and JUST what do you think the new BUNCH WILL BE LIKE????

Well it could be an opportunity to improve things.

Duh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Baerboxer]

On 9/22/2020 at 3:57 PM, spidermike007 said:

The police here own franchises. They are franchisees. They are not law enforcement officials. They rarely engage in law enforcement, traffic safety, or public safety. They are not here for the benefit of the people, and they are not here to keep us safe. They are here to collect. That is all they do. If you need to give them an official title, it would be that of a revenue collection agent. Only it is their own account, that they represent.

Always remember one thing. The police here are not engaged in law enforcement. They are revenue collection agents, and they each have their own franchise. Nobody will ever touch them. They are protected at the highest levels. They do as they please, and Thailand remains a relatively lawless state. The extraordinary aspect of all of this, is how much of a tribute this is, to the Thai people. Despite the lack of law and order, and the extraordinary lack of a deterrent, Thailand remains a relatively safe place to live, and to travel, and crime is far lower than it would be in almost any other country, without law and order. I consider this to be a great example of how good most Thai people really are, and how honorable they are, as a people. I never feel threatened here. I can walk the streets of most cities late at night, and never feel afraid of my security, like in many other nations. The most dangerous place in this country is on the roads.

I know some will take exception to my summary. We have all encountered punks here, and business people who have no vision, and do silly things. But, I believe those are people who are the exception to this rule. Most are quite extraordinary, and in a large sense, are self policed.

And that experience you had is very, very common. Many years ago, my sister in law, was involved with a rather dodgy Brit, while living on Samui. When she finally ditched him, he was livid, and just could not handle it. He ended up coming one night, at 3:30am, and burning down her bungalow, which was made of wood and thatch. It went up like a bomb. Fortunately, neither she, nor her roommate were there at the time, or they would have either died, or ended up with major 3rd degree burns all over their bodies, which I believe was his intention. In most countries, this would be treated as attempted murder, correct? The police were able to find a video of him racing away from the scene, at around 3:35am, as there was a CCTV camera in front of the police station, only a few hundred meters away from her bungalow. They took him in, and told him he would have to leave Thailand, and could never return. Not sure what exchanged hands, for him to not have been arrested. He was also told he would have to pay my sister in law 120,000 baht for the destruction of her gold, cash, and possessions. Same for her friend. He did pay. We know that for a fact, as we were friendly with a couple of his friends. When she went to the police station to collect, she was told that he never paid, and he was already back in Thailand. But, that they had advocated for her, and made sure he could never come back to Thailand! When she pushed, and told them that she knew for a fact that he had paid them, she was told that her life was now in danger, and that she needed to back down, and go away, or her safety could not be guaranteed.

The real problem is, you cannot report these guys. Not to the higher ups, not to the provincial authorities, and certainly not to the army. They are all corrupt beyond imagination. And the level of corruption simply escalates, the further up the food chain you go. They are not expected to be honest, and they are not expected to engage in law enforcement, traffic or public safety, on any level. It is an irrevocably broken and dysfunctional system. Anything hyperbole to the contrary, is just a smoke screen, intended to deceive the naive amongst us. So typical of these collection agents, who have the audacity to pose as cops. They are anything but. Many are operating their own little mafia gangs. But law enforcement? Never.

 

 

 

What a load of cobblers. And what's worse so many support your ludicrous view.

 

Hyperbolic exaggeration of anything here seems to be a pastime for some posters in their anti Thai rants.

 

Why not go home to your well policed, honestly governed, economically sound farang paradise?

 

[spidermike007]

13 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What a load of cobblers. And what's worse so many support your ludicrous view.

 

Hyperbolic exaggeration of anything here seems to be a pastime for some posters in their anti Thai rants.

 

Why not go home to your well policed, honestly governed, economically sound farang paradise?

 

 

Quite lame. Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall about the policies here, or the culture, some guy who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any time, study, or focus on the issue at hand, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or "maybe you should leave", or "it's not fair", or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". 

 

Why? Because I have some issues with the place, I am not entitled to complain, or voice my opinions? Half of the posts on this forum are complaints. What is wrong with that? Don't we need someplace to vent? Why the sensitivity? Why such thin skin? Though absolute contentment must be a beautiful thing to be blessed with, it is not something most of us enjoy. The fact that I complain does not mean I do not love Thailand, my lifestyle, and most of the Thai people. I have a good life here. But, I do have some issues with the place, as most do, and I do not like the government, and there are some things I would like to see improved. Do you not see any room for improvement? I should leave because I complain? 

 

[Andre0720]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2020 at 3:57 PM, spidermike007 said:

The police here own franchises. They are franchisees. They are not law enforcement officials. They rarely engage in law enforcement, traffic safety, or public safety. They are not here for the benefit of the people, and they are not here to keep us safe. They are here to collect. That is all they do. If you need to give them an official title, it would be that of a revenue collection agent. Only it is their own account, that they represent.

Always remember one thing. The police here are not engaged in law enforcement. They are revenue collection agents, and they each have their own franchise. Nobody will ever touch them. They are protected at the highest levels. They do as they please, and Thailand remains a relatively lawless state. The extraordinary aspect of all of this, is how much of a tribute this is, to the Thai people. Despite the lack of law and order, and the extraordinary lack of a deterrent, Thailand remains a relatively safe place to live, and to travel, and crime is far lower than it would be in almost any other country, without law and order. I consider this to be a great example of how good most Thai people really are, and how honorable they are, as a people. I never feel threatened here. I can walk the streets of most cities late at night, and never feel afraid of my security, like in many other nations. The most dangerous place in this country is on the roads.

I know some will take exception to my summary. We have all encountered punks here, and business people who have no vision, and do silly things. But, I believe those are people who are the exception to this rule. Most are quite extraordinary, and in a large sense, are self policed.

And that experience you had is very, very common. Many years ago, my sister in law, was involved with a rather dodgy Brit, while living on Samui. When she finally ditched him, he was livid, and just could not handle it. He ended up coming one night, at 3:30am, and burning down her bungalow, which was made of wood and thatch. It went up like a bomb. Fortunately, neither she, nor her roommate were there at the time, or they would have either died, or ended up with major 3rd degree burns all over their bodies, which I believe was his intention. In most countries, this would be treated as attempted murder, correct? The police were able to find a video of him racing away from the scene, at around 3:35am, as there was a CCTV camera in front of the police station, only a few hundred meters away from her bungalow. They took him in, and told him he would have to leave Thailand, and could never return. Not sure what exchanged hands, for him to not have been arrested. He was also told he would have to pay my sister in law 120,000 baht for the destruction of her gold, cash, and possessions. Same for her friend. He did pay. We know that for a fact, as we were friendly with a couple of his friends. When she went to the police station to collect, she was told that he never paid, and he was already back in Thailand. But, that they had advocated for her, and made sure he could never come back to Thailand! When she pushed, and told them that she knew for a fact that he had paid them, she was told that her life was now in danger, and that she needed to back down, and go away, or her safety could not be guaranteed.

The real problem is, you cannot report these guys. Not to the higher ups, not to the provincial authorities, and certainly not to the army. They are all corrupt beyond imagination. And the level of corruption simply escalates, the further up the food chain you go. They are not expected to be honest, and they are not expected to engage in law enforcement, traffic or public safety, on any level. It is an irrevocably broken and dysfunctional system. Anything hyperbole to the contrary, is just a smoke screen, intended to deceive the naive amongst us. So typical of these collection agents, who have the audacity to pose as cops. They are anything but. Many are operating their own little mafia gangs. But law enforcement? Never.

 

 

Great description of law enforcement here.

One exception.

"Thailand remains a relatively safe place to live, and to travel, and crime is far lower than it would be in almost any other country, without law and order. I consider this to be a great example of how good most Thai people really are, and how honorable they are, as a people."

 

I do believe that Thailand is a safe place to live yes. But certainly not because the Thais are so good people, honorable and so on. It is rather safe here because the police will take action when murder, rape and violence are committed. This is one area where FEAR exists in Thailand, contrary to what is happening on the roads. No fear on the roads, lawlessness on the roads.

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

The fact that I complain does not mean I do not love Thailand, my lifestyle, and most of the Thai people.

I don't love Thailand or the Thai people.

I don't love the UK, or the British people either.

My lifestyle's great here though, and it wouldn't be great back in the UK.

[spidermike007]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't love Thailand or the Thai people.

I don't love the UK, or the British people either.

My lifestyle's great here though, and it wouldn't be great back in the UK.

 

I do not love the US. I do love some of it's people. Some. I despise it's politics, especially now, with a charlatan leader. And I am not particularly proud of being an American. Not these days. I do love Thailand however. And I am quite fond of alot of people here. Maybe I am fortunate to know some really lovely souls. My Thai wife has an amazing family. Honest, hard working, smart, clever, ambitious, and kindhearted. 

 

Some of us live very good lives here. Some of us have been fortunate enough to find an outstanding woman, who is delightful to be around, on a daily basis, always has our back, and is fun, smart, and lovely. For me, that likelihood of finding that back in the US, would be very low. So, that is a big factor for me. The second factor is just the quality of life. Sure, I miss alot of the culture back home. The theatre, independent film (which I can download here with no issues at all, and a super fast 550mbps fiber optic connection, at under 800 baht per month!), stand up comedy, live jazz, etc. But I have a lovely home that I rent, for about 10% of what I would pay in California, I live very well on an income which is not huge, have access to great health care, at a tiny fraction of what it costs in the US, and do not have to put up with alot of the aggravation that I had to when I lived back there.

 

And I do not have to deal with either the historic fires, nor the Zombie apocalypse. I would not want to move back there, unless I was either being paid a million dollars a year, or the situation was dire. 

 

Sure, Thailand has changed. My first trip here was in 1976! It was so much different than now. The politics here are absolutely regressive. The army is horrendous. Will that ever improve? I think so. I think the youth will eventually oust them, as they are virtually useless to Thai society, with the exception of protecting the elite. those in power and the super wealthy. But alot of things here have improved since then. The infrastructure here is quite good. Sure they could use a high speed rail. That would be amazing. Hopefully it will happen. The whole world is different now. The whole planet is being affected by a greatly expanding population, inflation, environmental issues, politics, and congestion. So, we are going to experience some of that no matter where we are. All I know, is that every day I wake up, I am very glad to be here, very glad to be with the woman I am with, and thankful for my life. Would I feel the same way in the US? I seriously doubt it. Most of my friends back in the US, say they would trade positions with me, in a heartbeat, if they could. I believe them. And I feel for them. The quality of life where I came from is a pale shadow of what it used to be. No thanks. 

 

There is one more consideration. No matter where we go, we still have to contend with ourselves, our attitude, our issues and our minds. So, some will always be seeking greener pastures. Nothing wrong with that. But, it does not insure fulfillment. 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by spidermike007

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Some of us have been fortunate enough to find an outstanding woman, who is delightful to be around, on a daily basis,

 

Sure, Thailand has changed. My first trip here was in 1976! It was so much different than now. 

1) I've found many ....... and am currently working my way through them.

If only I'd come here 10 years earlier ................

 

2) I prefer now, the internet is faster and the TVs are bigger, I can buy milk in 7-11, and I'm happier in myself.

Not really bothered about the government or the exchange rate.

Edited September 24, 2020 by BritManToo

[moose7117]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Quite lame. Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall about the policies here, or the culture, some guy who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any time, study, or focus on the issue at hand, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or "maybe you should leave", or "it's not fair", or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". 

 

look at your own posts mister.

Your every post is critical about the country you choose to live in.

Maybe the Thai people like the way their country is.

and maybe they act and behave in a matter that suits their culture.

Maybe the idea of a Thai saving face is their right, it is Thailand after all.

 

WHO are you to criticise them when it is their country.

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, moose7117 said:

look at your own posts mister.

Your every post is critical about the country you choose to live in.

Maybe the Thai people like the way their country is.

and maybe they act and behave in a matter that suits their culture.

Maybe the idea of a Thai saving face is their right, it is Thailand after all.

 

WHO are you to criticise them when it is their country.

 

Quite lame. Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall about the policies here, or the culture, some guy who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any time, study, or focus on the issue at hand, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or "maybe you should leave", or "it's not fair", or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". 

 

Why? Because I have some issues with the place, I am not entitled to complain, or voice my opinions? Half of the posts on this forum are complaints. What is wrong with that? Don't we need someplace to vent? Why the sensitivity? Why such thin skin? Though absolute contentment must be a beautiful thing to be blessed with, it is not something most of us enjoy. The fact that I complain does not mean I do not love Thailand, my lifestyle, and most of the Thai people. I have a good life here. But, I do have some issues with the place, as most do, and I do not like the government, and there are some things I would like to see improved. Do you not see any room for improvement? I should leave because I complain? 

 

[moose7117]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Quite lame. Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall about the policies here, or the culture, some guy who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any time, study, or focus on the issue at hand, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or "maybe you should leave", or "it's not fair", or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". 

 

Why? Because I have some issues with the place, I am not entitled to complain, or voice my opinions? Half of the posts on this forum are complaints. What is wrong with that? Don't we need someplace to vent? Why the sensitivity? Why such thin skin? Though absolute contentment must be a beautiful thing to be blessed with, it is not something most of us enjoy. The fact that I complain does not mean I do not love Thailand, my lifestyle, and most of the Thai people. I have a good life here. But, I do have some issues with the place, as most do, and I do not like the government, and there are some things I would like to see improved. Do you not see any room for improvement? I should leave because I complain? 

 

Who are you to want them to change to suit you.

Some of The Thai people are trying to change a few things at the moment as the protests show.

So many people are negative about this place, " The Government is corrupt", the loss of face thing is stupid, the police are useless and dont do their jobs, The Army is no good and the usual Thais can't drive.

Thais can drive, some of them drive well some terribly but it is the same in every country, I have just returned to Sydney for the first time in 35 years and the traffic here is unbelievable. Bangkok traffic is a lot easier to deal with than the aggression displayed here.

The Government and police have a few problems, but compare them to any other country, i am sure there is no incompetence in the US or Italian or Australian police force or Government Dept.

If you are stopped by the police in Thailand at least you won't have guns drawn on you and be in fear for your life.

Watch video of how the Thai police handle people who are out of control, they certainly don't just shoot or taser them like some other police forces.

 

Something Positive would be nice occasionally.

 

[spidermike007]

32 minutes ago, moose7117 said:

Who are you to want them to change to suit you.

Some of The Thai people are trying to change a few things at the moment as the protests show.

So many people are negative about this place, " The Government is corrupt", the loss of face thing is stupid, the police are useless and dont do their jobs, The Army is no good and the usual Thais can't drive.

Thais can drive, some of them drive well some terribly but it is the same in every country, I have just returned to Sydney for the first time in 35 years and the traffic here is unbelievable. Bangkok traffic is a lot easier to deal with than the aggression displayed here.

The Government and police have a few problems, but compare them to any other country, i am sure there is no incompetence in the US or Italian or Australian police force or Government Dept.

If you are stopped by the police in Thailand at least you won't have guns drawn on you and be in fear for your life.

Watch video of how the Thai police handle people who are out of control, they certainly don't just shoot or taser them like some other police forces.

 

Something Positive would be nice occasionally.

 

I post alot about the high quality of life here, my love of most Thai people, and many other topics, which you obviously do not read. Here is an example of one. 

 

This is an entirely subjective topic, of course. But some of us live very good lives here. Some of us have been fortunate enough to find an outstanding woman, who is delightful to be around, on a daily basis, always has our back, and is fun, smart, and lovely. For me, that likelihood of finding that back in the US, would be very low. So, that is a big factor for me. The second factor is just the quality of life. Sure, I miss alot of the culture back home. The theatre, independent film (which I can download here with no issues at all, and a super fast 550mbps fiber optic connection, at under 800 baht per month!), stand up comedy, live jazz, etc. But I have a lovely home that I rent, for about 10% of what I would pay in California, I live very well on an income which is not huge, have access to great health care, at a tiny fraction of what it costs in the US, and do not have to put up with alot of the aggravation that I had to when I lived back there. I would not want to move back there, unless I was either being paid a million dollars a year, or the situation was dire.

 

The whole planet is being affected by a greatly expanding population, inflation, environmental issues, politics, and congestion. So, we are going to experience some of that no matter where we are. All I know, is that every day I wake up, I am very glad to be here, very glad to be with the woman I am with, and thankful for my life. Would I feel the same way in the US? I seriously doubt it. Most of my friends back in the US, say they would trade positions with me, in a heartbeat, if they could. I believe them. And I feel for them. The quality of life where I came from is a pale shadow of what it used to be. No thanks.

 

There is one more consideration. No matter where we go, we still have to contend with ourselves, our attitude, our issues and our minds. So, some will always be seeking greener pastures. Nothing wrong with that. But, it does not insure fulfillment.

[BritManToo]

17 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

All I know, is that every day I wake up, I am very glad to be here, very glad to be with the woman I am with, and thankful for my life. Would I feel the same way in the US? I seriously doubt it.

I'm very glad to be with both my women, the one I wake up with, and the one I visit later in the 'love hotel'.

Would I feel the same way in the UK, not a chance, I couldn't even afford one back there.

 

As for the police, they seem to have given up collecting donations in Chiang Mai for the moment.

Edited September 25, 2020 by BritManToo