Rugby World Cup 2007

[Donnyboy]

It's a good point - Henry is a good coach, and NZ have the best squad of players in the world - just not quite getting that 'big match' stuff right. But if I were the NZRU, I would not fire Mr Henry - I remember England getting bundled out of RWC 99 by the Saffers - the RFU were (for once) bright enough to put it down to experience and did not dispense with Woowoo's services. The rest, as they say, is history ..

Spot On

I am coming to realise that they were not as mentality prepared as they should have been. Undercooked? Most definately. After 4 easy pool games they probably thought that France were another side that they would knock over without effort, since they had won easily against the French this year during the tour. They have the best skills and are one of the most fit teams out there, but probably rate 2nd best when dealing with pressure. I not sure if they had a mental coach as well, but it probably would have been beneficial.

Maybe they were starting to believe the hype over themselves, where as the underdog has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

sawadee cap donny boy ,

I've just been listening to some interviews with certain rugby " experts " who were saying that the all blacks were too soft because they had been pampered tooo much ( the super 12 players getting all that rest , playing a second team against the jocks .......... ).

What do you reckon ??? , it seems like a catch 22 situation to me , play them too much and there done in or give them loads of rest and there soft .

SM.

Firstly congrats England for making the final, a titanic battle upfront. JW came thru again, seems like he can be rested/injured during the off years but his timing is impeccable. This England team has definately turned around within this RWC and shown their mettle. If they play the Boks in the final, it will be closer than the game they had a few weeks ago.

SM, Im starting to feel that he ABs werent as smart as the French in that game, and that they werent as passionate. As soon as Michelak came on he change the style of play and the ABs couldnt adjust, same as the game played in the RWC in '99. The ABs lead going into the second half but the French changed tactics and went on to win.

There is a balancing act with these top level players, too many games and they burn out, not enough and they probably get rusty. Theres also an expectation on every game they play, that they must win firstly, and secondly win well. But as far as which approach is the best- who really knows except the 2 teams facing each other next week.

[Pink Mist]

Donny you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to rugby (and I'm sure other subjects too)

I really appreciated your contributions to this thread, allways positive and accurate, well done mate

[lazeeboy]

Donny you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to rugby (and I'm sure other subjects too)

I really appreciated your contributions to this thread, allways positive and accurate, well done mate

unbelieveable england in the final again ,and we've scored the least trys of all the last four ,maybe were saving all ours for the final

[Humphrey Bear]

Donny you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to rugby (and I'm sure other subjects too)

I really appreciated your contributions to this thread, allways positive and accurate, well done mate

unbelieveable england in the final again ,and we've scored the least trys of all the last four ,maybe were saving all ours for the final

Which is nothing to shout about - itmeans that we are rerlying on the other team making errors and one man kicking accurately.

In a stadium such as Marseilles, where the wind destroys all kickers accuracy, this is dangerous. Look at all the mised kicks in the England / Wallabies match.

We need forwards power and backs scoring fast tries.

[Captain Chaos]

Donny you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to rugby (and I'm sure other subjects too)

I really appreciated your contributions to this thread, allways positive and accurate, well done mate

unbelieveable england in the final again ,and we've scored the least trys of all the last four ,maybe were saving all ours for the final

Maybe ... but prolly more likely reflects the really p*ss poor performances we put in in the pool stage, against the US and the Saffers in particular ...

... Objectively, I feel that England have a better chance if they play Argentina in the final ... but having said that, if England do end up facing the Saffers ... jeez, talk about payback being a bitch!

It sure has been an interesting tournament - on many levels - and one thing I do think should be commented upon is that our French hosts have laid on an excellent show, and have taken defeat in a dignified manner ... they done good.

PS. I'm still anti-EU though

CC

[miltonbentley]

Absolutely amazing. It wasn't pretty but it felt good. England have relied on guts, passion and shown a will to win far greater than their rugby talent. It has been a privilege to watch. One more to go next week

A word also to the French who must be deeply disappointed not to make the final in their own country. The have been gracious in defeat and conducted themselves with enormous dignity. I also strongly echo Captain Chaos' comments that that have hosted an excellent tournament.

Can't wait to see tonight's game to find out who England will play.

Vamos Los Pumas

[mrbojangles]

Donny you are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to rugby (and I'm sure other subjects too)

I really appreciated your contributions to this thread, allways positive and accurate, well done mate

I concur. I haven't posted much in this thread but have enjoyed reading it, especially Donny's contributions. Cheers

Can't believe it was a month ago that at 3 in the morning, i left the pub at half time, with England being battered by the Boks.

They have risen to the challenge, well done boys

[roscoe]

Where is that greatest of all sporting afficianados Siam Superfly? I am sure that his great itelectual accumen and even handed opinions would be more than welcome on this thread.

[mrbojangles]

Where is that greatest of all sporting afficianados Siam Superfly?

He got "swatted" by Bronco in another thread

[miltonbentley]

Henry Could Stay in Charge of the All Blacks

It would be a sensible move IMHO.

Donny any thoughts?

[chonabot]

Where is that greatest of all sporting afficianados Siam Superfly?

He got "swatted" by Bronco in another thread

Hmmm...self-flagellation?.............interesting.......

[miltonbentley]

Posted by a Frenchman on the Telegraph's website

The great thing about England's win - and this is a Frenchman speaking - is that it has brought home for the second time in a week the fact that rugby is mainly about commitment, passion, guts and all those old-fashioned sorts of things that the marketing men of the professional era have tried to ignore. I cannot be the only ex-village type player to have become increasingly unhappy about rugby internationals swanning about in glossy magazines selling shirts, shampoo and razor blades, with TV stressing pin-up quality rather than the game most of us still play. All the meticulous preparation and 'cotton-wooling' of internationals preceding world cups is an ad-man's dream - lots of hunky young men with wavy hair mincing about in training centres - but fortunately it hasn't worked on the pitch this month. Not for the AB's, not for France. OK, I'm old-fashioned, but I like the ones who really want it to win, the ones that have enough character and guts to get up off the floor after four years of total rubbish. We have plenty of players like that in France too. The mad, bad and ugly. They used to get to play at the highest level and perhaps they'll get their again chance now. The marketing suits won't like it, but perhaps they should have left rugby alone in the first place. Rugby's traditional values aren't really geared up to selling shampoo. All the best to England next weekend, and let's hope we get the message loud and clear over here.

[chonabot]

Great article !

[miltonbentley]

South Africa 37 Argentina 13

Impressive from the Boks, Congrats on making the final. SA will be clear favourites for the final but what does that mean in this tournament?

Unlucky Argentina - stars of the tournament. What will they do when they finally get regular international competition?

[cdnvic]

I think the Pumas have signalled in this WC that they've come of age. They'll be a force to be reckoned with for the near future. Well done Argies.

[farangconnection]

Where is that greatest of all sporting afficianados Siam Superfly?

He got "swatted" by Bronco in another thread

Hmmm...self-flagellation?.............interesting.......

suicide is a better word

[Doza]

Well done to England and SA.

But I must say. the England v France game was exciting due to the occasion and the close score. But the spectacle itself, purely in terms of the rugby played, was not great in opinion - except for some magnificent forward play at the odd time.

Same goes for the SA V Argies game. There were patches of simply woeful play where one team would aimlesslely or badly kick to the other, the wing or fullbakc would catch it and seemingly have no option but to put a a bomb or some other aimless kick, only for the same to be repeated 3 more times before someone knocked on and a scrum was called.

Again this was interspersed with some good forward play, turnovers, and a few attacking raids but they were few and far between.

Yes yes, I am an antipodean and you will say we play a different brand of rubgy but I am happy for a more traditional game and I don't care if a team wins by kicking but I hate very average play, such as consistent crap kicking and lack of imagination or flair in attack, dominating games.

Lets hope for a cracker next week.

[Yorkie]

It's good to see that some Australians have finally learnt the correct way to acknowledge an Englishman when they meet him...

Edited October 15, 2007 by Yorkie

[mrtoad]

It's good to see that some Australians have finally learnt the correct way to acknowledge an Englishman when they meet him...

[miltonbentley]

Well done to England and SA.

But I must say. the England v France game was exciting due to the occasion and the close score. But the spectacle itself, purely in terms of the rugby played, was not great in opinion - except for some magnificent forward play at the odd time.

Same goes for the SA V Argies game. There were patches of simply woeful play where one team would aimlesslely or badly kick to the other, the wing or fullbakc would catch it and seemingly have no option but to put a a bomb or some other aimless kick, only for the same to be repeated 3 more times before someone knocked on and a scrum was called.

Again this was interspersed with some good forward play, turnovers, and a few attacking raids but they were few and far between.

Yes yes, I am an antipodean and you will say we play a different brand of rubgy but I am happy for a more traditional game and I don't care if a team wins by kicking but I hate very average play, such as consistent crap kicking and lack of imagination or flair in attack, dominating games.

Lets hope for a cracker next week.

Hi Doza thanks for the congratulations.

The reason there are mistakes at this level is the stakes and the pressure that brings. Aside from the final next week these were the two biggest games of rugby for 4 years. All four teams are desperate to win and that leads to percentage rugby - trying to pin teams deep in their own half and mistakes. The occasion forces it.

Look at last night Argentina turned the ball over more times than they have in the entire tournament so far- much of it unforced. The reason is because of the unfamiliar pressure of being in a game of this magnitude. They suffered last night, not because they suddenly became bad rugby players but because they have been denied regular tournament play against top teams and could not cope with the greater demands of a game at this level - South Africa could and won well.

I also think that its within those pressure situations that sublime rugby skill really stand out because of the context in which they are played. Everybody can be a fancy Dan on the park on a Sunday but this is the World Cup. Some examples from the weekend would include some of the amazing Brian Habana's play last night, the outrageously wonderful long attacking pass flicked out the back millimetres from the touchline from one of the French (I think it was Ellisade), Worsley's match saving tap tackle. All things that would have been good in normal competition become amazing in the context of a World Cup semi final.

[Old Croc]

Good luck to England in the final.

Am I allowed to talk about League here Donny?

[miltonbentley]

Good luck to England in the final.

Am I allowed to talk about League here Donny?

Donny quick, call security

[Donnyboy]

Henry Could Stay in Charge of the All Blacks

It would be a sensible move IMHO.

Donny any thoughts?

I tend to agree MB. Retaining Henry would be wise as he has a wealth of knowledge in all aspects in and around rugby. I see that he has a better results record than any other All Blacks coach in the modern era at 87.5%. The last coach John Mitchell had 82%, Wayne Smith 70% (one season) and John Hart at 75%.

Robbie Deans is a great coach. He has molded the Crusaders (in the Super 14) into one of the best teams in the competition, and if Australia hire him, it would be a devastating loss to the NZRFU.

However, looking forward to 2011, Henry would be my pick and that Deans could be contracted at a later date as he has time on his side.

[Donnyboy]

Look at last night Argentina turned the ball over more times than they have in the entire tournament so far- much of it unforced. The reason is because of the unfamiliar pressure of being in a game of this magnitude. They suffered last night, not because they suddenly became bad rugby players but because they have been denied regular tournament play against top teams and could not cope with the greater demands of a game at this level - South Africa could and won well.

that wouldnt explain NZ capitulation to France. NZ plays in the trinations annually and still couldnt deal with the pressure. I think in NZs case, is that they were out smarted and against a team with more passion.

[Donnyboy]

Good luck to England in the final.

Am I allowed to talk about League here Donny?

Donny quick, call security

how did he get in?

[miltonbentley]

Look at last night Argentina turned the ball over more times than they have in the entire tournament so far- much of it unforced. The reason is because of the unfamiliar pressure of being in a game of this magnitude. They suffered last night, not because they suddenly became bad rugby players but because they have been denied regular tournament play against top teams and could not cope with the greater demands of a game at this level - South Africa could and won well.

that wouldnt explain NZ capitulation to France. NZ plays in the trinations annually and still couldnt deal with the pressure. I think in NZs case, is that they were out smarted and against a team with more passion.

Disagree a bit there Donny. NZ made nothing like the number of unforced errors that Argentina did. The game was much tighter. The more Argentina play in big comps their more they will get used to the pressure involved and the tighter their games will be.

[Donnyboy]

so what is the feeling amongst the English supporters, now that you are facing the Boks in the final?

You know what the Boks arsenal are; solid scrum, very physical in the breakdown, very good at set pieces, strong midfield combos, good kickers and excellent finishers on the wings.

Im sure the English will want to play the same style as the last 2 outings; percentage rugby, hoping to turnover the ball from the Boks and perhaps get them to cough up penalties within kicking range. Keeping in tight and making the advantage line.

should England win this weekend, it will be the most amazing turnaround in rugby history.

we have had an absolutely exciting RWC to date, the pools were mostly predictable with a few teams playing above their rankings namely Tonga, Fiji and Georgia. Some disappointments that we didnt expect in Wales and Ireland.

And the unexpected losses of NZ and Australia.

[chavy]

so what is the feeling amongst the English supporters, now that you are facing the Boks in the final?

You know what the Boks arsenal are; solid scrum, very physical in the breakdown, very good at set pieces, strong midfield combos, good kickers and excellent finishers on the wings.

Im sure the English will want to play the same style as the last 2 outings; percentage rugby, hoping to turnover the ball from the Boks and perhaps get them to cough up penalties within kicking range. Keeping in tight and making the advantage line.

should England win this weekend, it will be the most amazing turnaround in rugby history.

we have had an absolutely exciting RWC to date, the pools were mostly predictable with a few teams playing above their rankings namely Tonga, Fiji and Georgia. Some disappointments that we didnt expect in Wales and Ireland.

And the unexpected losses of NZ and Australia.

The feeling is, I suspect, one of........we owe them one after the pool game

[miltonbentley]

so what is the feeling amongst the English supporters, now that you are facing the Boks in the final?

You know what the Boks arsenal are; solid scrum, very physical in the breakdown, very good at set pieces, strong midfield combos, good kickers and excellent finishers on the wings.

Im sure the English will want to play the same style as the last 2 outings; percentage rugby, hoping to turnover the ball from the Boks and perhaps get them to cough up penalties within kicking range. Keeping in tight and making the advantage line.

should England win this weekend, it will be the most amazing turnaround in rugby history.

we have had an absolutely exciting RWC to date, the pools were mostly predictable with a few teams playing above their rankings namely Tonga, Fiji and Georgia. Some disappointments that we didnt expect in Wales and Ireland.

And the unexpected losses of NZ and Australia.

The feeling Donny is absolute incredulous joy and pride that our limited team have picked themselves off the floor after 4 crap years and a deserved drubbing in this tournament and through sheer strength of will, passion and guts fought their way to the final in defence of their title. Watching them in the last two matches has been a rollercoaster with two euphoric conclusions.

Can we do it one more time - yes although it gets harder each time and South Africa will be the toughest test. We have a stack on momentum now and if the Boks want it they will have to be immense as well.

[quiksilva]

so what is the feeling amongst the English supporters, now that you are facing the Boks in the final?

You know what the Boks arsenal are; solid scrum, very physical in the breakdown, very good at set pieces, strong midfield combos, good kickers and excellent finishers on the wings.

Im sure the English will want to play the same style as the last 2 outings; percentage rugby, hoping to turnover the ball from the Boks and perhaps get them to cough up penalties within kicking range. Keeping in tight and making the advantage line.

should England win this weekend, it will be the most amazing turnaround in rugby history.

we have had an absolutely exciting RWC to date, the pools were mostly predictable with a few teams playing above their rankings namely Tonga, Fiji and Georgia. Some disappointments that we didnt expect in Wales and Ireland.

And the unexpected losses of NZ and Australia.

Firstly being very pleasantly surprised to be where we are, but also immensely proud of the gritty determination to win that the boys have displayed in the recent matches.

I read somewhere that they used the SA drubbing they took as fuel for their play. That certainly seems to be the case. No doubt, the Boks will be a huge challenge this weekend, but I'm sure that England are dearly looking forward to this match and make good on that previous result. Both sides will be playing their hearts, and it should make for a great final!

Once again it will be all about the forwards, whilst I would love to see England play the ball out to Jason Robinson a bit more, this is not what we do best. God knows we tried to do that for years, and where did that get us? Nowhere, we're best off leaving that style of play to the Southern Hemisphere sides.

As much as I enjoy it, watching England can be painful, these are high risk strategies that they employ. Their tackling has to be first class, if one tackle fails and we give away a try away, our strategy can come unstuck very quickly. As good as JW is, its very difficult to mount a counter attack kicking 3 pointers alone.

If the forwards can keep up the pressure though, and if they can make their tackles count, perhaps force some turnovers they should be able to exert more control over the flow of play, and put some points on the board.

Whatever happens next, England can be proud of the way in which they have defended the title.