Laborer vs Tradesman vs Craftsman

[Airalee]

To make a long story short, I purchased a new build condo this year and the overall QC was disappointing to say the least.  The walls under the wallpaper were not flat (lumps, bumps and ridges galore) so the developer agreed to remove all the wallpaper, flatten the walls and then skim coat them in preparation for me to hire my own painters.  
 

On to the painting.

 

I bought the expensive paint ($70 per gallon) and asked the owner if he had a crew that were able to do a good job.  I specifically stated that I did not want the ฿500/day workers and wanted a quality job and was willing to pay whatever it cost, short of hiring the guy who might work for the super rich (like the barbers who charge $2000 per haircut in Beverly Hills)

 

Anyhow, wow...what a let down.  I was provided with an elderly mom-n-pop team that completely botched the job.  The owner agreed but still wanted to let the old guy paint, letting the woman go.  He told me to wait until the end of the job and then see what the final quality was.  Well...now nearing the end of the job...it’s not much better.  
 

So, I’m hoping to get the Thai words for “laborer” (the ฿500 guy) vs “tradesman” (the professional who actually does it for a living) vs “craftsman” (the person who actually takes pride in a job well done and has a passion for it) so that I can explain to the owner exactly what kind of workers I am looking for. 

 

These are examples of the quality I have gotten so far and not even the worst of it.

 

 

[trucking]

Painting is easy enough to do yourself if not in a hurry. At least by doing it yourself you get a quality job done. 

[RichCor]

While I'm sure people can provide you with the Thai words (and English pronunciations) I doubt that alone will get you want you want. A title means nothing here.

 

Tell the forum what province/city the condo is in, then request referrals for known good tradecraft people.

[Pottinger]

Labourer: กรรมกร - gammagorn (all mid-tone)

Tradesman (Painter specifically): ช่างทาสี - chang tha see (falling-mid-rising)

Craftsman: ช่างฝีมือ - chang fee meu (falling-rising-mid)   

Professional: มืออาชีพ - meu acheep (mid-falling)

[worgeordie]

Old man,shaky hand, what do you expect, I would have just done it myself,

well use the wife,she can do a very good job painting a 5 bedroom house in

4-5 days after the tenant has moved out. you must keep them busy????

regards worgeordie

[Airalee]

28 minutes ago, trucking said:

Painting is easy enough to do yourself if not in a hurry. At least by doing it yourself you get a quality job done. 

Yeah...understood.  I have already restored a home by myself in the US and had no problem at all.  I already told the owner of the paint company that if this was the quality to be expected I would have just bought the paint and done the job myself.  He is at least in agreement with me but I feel bad that he’s probably gonna lose a lot of money on this job.

[Airalee]

24 minutes ago, RichCor said:

While I'm sure people can provide you with the Thai words (and English pronunciations) I doubt that alone will get you want you want. A title means nothing here.

 

Tell the forum what province/city the condo is in, then request referrals for known good tradecraft people.

I’m in Bangkok (Phra Khanong). I’m sure that the owner understands as he lived in the US for a number of years.  

[Airalee]

5 minutes ago, Pottinger said:

Labourer: กรรมหร - gammagorn (all mid-tone)

Tradesman (Painter specifically): ช่างทาสี - chang tha see (falling-mid-rising)

Craftsman: ช่างฝีมือ - chang fee meu (falling-rising-mid)   

Professional: มืออาชีพ - meu acheep (mid-falling)

Thanks!  Much appreciated.

[Airalee]

4 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Old man,shaky hand, what do you expect, I would have just done it myself,

well use the wife,she can do a very good job painting a 5 bedroom house in

4-5 days after the tenant has moved out. you must keep them busy????

regards worgeordie

Can she cut a straight line using an angle brush without having to tape anything off?  How is she with 15 foot ceilings?

[worgeordie]

11 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Can she cut a straight line using an angle brush without having to tape anything off?  How is she with 15 foot ceilings?

Yes, and we have a long ladder, I did suggest stilts to her,but she was not up for that !

what brand of paint is $70 a gallon ?

regards Worgeordie

[bodga]

56 minutes ago, trucking said:

Painting is easy enough to do yourself if not in a hurry.

common misconception, 40 years  in the trade in the UK............so many houses  I had to sort out due to the "have a go brigade"

Gloss  paint for example usually  like gravel when theyd  finished, try gloss  painting a  flat  panel door without any rubbish in it and without any joins, paint  built  up  on edges forming a lip, sagging, runs,  you name it they'd  do it. Like all trades its takes a good  deal of care but  by far the biggest mistake  people make is CLEANLINESS.

As for one coat paint, the worlds  biggest abomination ever  going.

[bodga]

24 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Can she cut a straight line using an angle brush without having to tape anything off?  How is she with 15 foot ceilings?

Speed  is  required for  large  ceilings to avoid  joints  showing, its a  lot harder on Thailand to do than in the UK, Thai painters add a ridiculous  amount of  water to their emulsion paints, witness the houses with peeling paint as theres  almost no paint in there water, then  the striping you can see where they think they can get away with fewer coats, for a few  month it  may look ok, then as the sun attacks it youll see the stripes  apppear.

[Airalee]

7 minutes ago, bodga said:

common misconception, 40 years  in the trade in the UK............so many houses  I had to sort out due to the "have a go brigade"

Gloss  paint for example usually  like gravel when theyd  finished, try gloss  painting a  flat  panel door without any rubbish in it and without any joins, paint  built  up  on edges forming a lip, sagging, runs,  you name it they'd  do it. Like all trades its takes a good  deal of care but  by far the biggest mistake  people make is CLEANLINESS.

As for one coat paint, the worlds  biggest abomination ever  going.

I was lucky that when I restored my house in the US...a mid century modern with 40 windows (with multiple reveals), I had someone like yourself working with me showing me the ropes and being a “good student”, I picked up the nuances pretty quickly.  The painters brought in didn’t even know about not loading the brush more than 1/3 of the way up the bristles and sunk the whole brush into the paint up to the handle.

[Airalee]

14 minutes ago, bodga said:

Speed  is  required for  large  ceilings to avoid  joints  showing, its a  lot harder on Thailand to do than in the UK, Thai painters add a ridiculous  amount of  water to their emulsion paints, witness the houses with peeling paint as theres  almost no paint in there water, then  the striping you can see where they think they can get away with fewer coats, for a few  month it  may look ok, then as the sun attacks it youll see the stripes  apppear.

Thankfully the ceilings didn’t need painting as I was only doing the walls where the wallpaper was removed.  The ceilings do however, now require touching up all around the edges everywhere.  I also used imported paint as I was well aware of the quality of Thai paints.

[Airalee]

24 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

Yes, and we have a long ladder, I did suggest stilts to her,but she was not up for that !

what brand of paint is $70 a gallon ?

regards Worgeordie

No need to name and shame but imported brands aren’t cheap.

[bodga]

Just now, Airalee said:

I was lucky that when I restored my house in the US...a mid century modern with 40 windows (with multiple reveals), I had someone like yourself working with me showing me the ropes and being a “good student”, I picked up the nuances pretty quickly.  The painters brought in didn’t even know about not loading the brush more than 1/3 of the way up the bristles and sunk the whole brush into the paint up to the handle.

my brushes  probably  cost  more  than  their  days salary ps  im  at  on-nut suk 52.............ps no  thanks  is the  answer,  still  do  my  own  though as  have never  yet seen a  good  painter here, amongst many other trades, had  many  people they tell me of a  good  person but  when actually  seeing the work theyve  done lets  say their standards must be very low.

The  biggest problem with age is   you need  really good eyesight to paint properly  and i find it rather tiring now with  57yr old eyesight, glasses  are a pain in the rse

[johng]

49 minutes ago, worgeordie said:

he wife,she can do a very good job painting a 5 bedroom house in

4-5 days after the tenant has moved out

Wow that's some painting skill..she must be super fit too !

[Grumpy one]

The photo's show the type of finish you would expect here.

Give a man a paint brush, he is a qualified house painter.

Just ask him. 

The same applies to most other trades

[Airalee]

1 minute ago, bodga said:

my brushes  probably  cost  more  than  their  days salary ps  im  at  on-nut suk 52.............ps no  thanks  is the  answer,  still  do  my  own  though as  have never  yet seen a  good  painter here, amongst many other trades, had  many  people they tell me of a  good  person but  when actually  seeing the work theyve  done lets  say their standards must be very low.

The  biggest problem with age is   you need  really good eyesight to paint properly  and i find it rather tiring now with  57yr old eyesight, glasses  are a pain in the rse

Do you know where I can get good brushes here?  Something like Wooster or Purdy?  

[bodga]

4 minutes ago, johng said:

Wow that's some painting skill..she must be super fit too !

yeah had to laugh, 5  bed house 5  days, used to see this kind of laughable stuff in the Uk, usually form Indians, Id  quote for work for them and then theyd  say how long would it  take, but before I could answer theyd  tell me how long in their opinion, at that  point I knew the job was a  waste of time.

[bodga]

1 minute ago, Grumpy one said:

The photo's show the type of finish you would expect here.

Give a man a paint brush, he is a qualified house painter.

Just ask him. 

The same applies to most other trades

ps they all claim to be  that a "professional", they like to tell you theve done  it for years  too, often done  badly for years, then Ill agree.

When I did a room the first thing to do was empty it, remove  all hardware door  fittings light switches sockets etc, id  spend most of the time sanding , vacuuming, wiping down with wet rags washing frequently,   filling, more sanding ( the worst part of the job)  more vacuuming, more wiping down, finally tack rags before painting.........., wallpapering, walls  sanded,  vacuumed, wiped  down again etc etc never seen any workmen with a vacuum here, also totally  lacking sheets for  covering floors, never used masking tape either all cut  in by hand, the actual physical painting was probably the shortest part of the job often.

[Airalee]

8 minutes ago, Grumpy one said:

The photo's show the type of finish you would expect here.

Give a man a paint brush, he is a qualified house painter.

Just ask him. 

The same applies to most other trades

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the flooring outfit that comes in next.  

[bodga]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Do you know where I can get good brushes here?  Something like Wooster or Purdy?  

Nope I brought  all mine from the UK I have about 10 Hamilton perfection plus natural bristles for  oil paints here as used these  daily  in the Uk, not overly expensive about 10quid  each for 1.5  inch, for emulsion I have some Hamilton acrylic brushes. Would  you like to see my badger hair softeners?? Used for speciality finishes wood graining, marbling,  used to get good  money for that work, inside lifts of expensive hotels  etc, mahogany interiors  all fake painted or burr  walnut, birds  eye  maple etc etc lot of this has  gone now due to films being applied instead, faster  cheaper etc at training college back in tut 80's we started with OAK apparently the easiest to do.

[Airalee]

7 minutes ago, bodga said:

ps they all claim to be  that a "professional", they like to tell you theve done  it for years  too, often done  badly for years, then Ill agree.

When I did a room the first thing to do was empty it, remove  all hardware door  fittings light switches sockets etc, id  spend most of the time sanding , vacuuming, wiping down with wet rags washing frequently,   filling, more sanding ( the worst part of the job)  more vacuuming, more wiping down, finally tack rags before painting.........., wallpapering, walls  sanded,  vacuumed, wiped  down again etc etc never seen any workmen with a vacuum here, also totally  lacking sheets for  covering floors, never used masking tape either all cut  in by hand, the actual physical painting was probably the shortest part of the job often.

The first day, when they were taping off my switch and socket covers I immediately showed them how they have to pop off the covers instead and told them to do that.  They gave me the look of “oh...wow...what a good idea”.  Then, when I come back later...the only ones removed were the ones I took off myself.  And I too was wondering...”where’s the freakin shop vac?”

[bodga]

3 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for the flooring outfit that comes in next.  

dont! I do tiling as  well if  youre  talking tiles and what I see here is  pretty grim also, many condos there are  no expansion joints and they bed them on a semi dry  mortar by the looks of it, come "winter" time these  contract slightly and  "BANG"  your  tiles  will explode  as they burst off the floor. Walk into many condos tap the floor tiles  sound hollow = <deleted>  job, theyve  not  long started using thin set  mortar which is way better.

[bodga]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

The first day, when they were taping off my switch and socket covers I immediately showed them how they have to pop off the covers instead and told them to do that.  They gave me the look of “oh...wow...what a good idea”.  Then, when I come back later...the only ones removed were the ones I took off myself.  And I too was wondering...”where’s the freakin shop vac?”

and the door  plate  too i see in the first photo nicely  brown painted over.

[bodga]

3 minutes ago, Airalee said:

”where’s the freakin shop vac?”

yeah no vac=  no work for me, anyone who thinks  one of those dumb brooms  will get all the dust up and not throw it  all round the room to resettle is  in cloud  cuckoo  land????

[Airalee]

Just now, bodga said:

dont! I do tiling as  well if  youre  talking tiles and what I see here is  pretty grim also, many condos there are  no expansion joints and they bed them on a semi dry  mortar by the looks of it, come "winter" time these  contract slightly and  "BANG"  your  tiles  will explode  as they burst off the floor. Walk into many condos tap the floor tiles  sound hollow = <deleted>  job, theyve  not  long started using thin set  mortar which is way better.

Nah...I’m doing hardwoods by these guys...

 

http://www.champacawood.com/projects/
 

They have an impressive list of clients and had no problem when I told them that I’m looking for the same quality job.

 

I did the tile work in my kitchen too back in the US (also laid my own hardwood floors) But I went and took classes before attempting to do it on my own.  Turned out pretty good.  

[Airalee]

6 minutes ago, bodga said:

and the door  plate  too i see in the first photo nicely  brown painted over.

That was the developer...and why I hired my own painters.  

[trucking]

14 hours ago, bodga said:

common misconception,

 

You are probably right. Easy enough for a sensible person with a little experience but yes.....there are legions of bodgers out there. I've always done my own painting and found it easy as my father taught me and he was an absolute perfectionist. The sort of person who would take a radiator of the wall so that he could paper and paint behind it before putting it back. 

 

My ex Filipino girlfriend wanted me to paint her bedroom door. I explained it would need a good rubbing down, a little filler. a little more rubbing down then undercoat and 2 coats of paint. Sorry, no time love.

 

She would not accept this , bought a tin of gloss and a 1 inch paint brush and got stuck in for all of 5 minutes before I turned up tired from work. Both her hands were covered in paint, there were drips on the floor and she was holding the brush like one of Caesars assassins , dagger fashion.  Needless to say, I had to do it myself to have ' benefits ' restored.  And she was a ward sister with a university degree !