Trump slams Facebook, Twitter for taking down Biden story in NY Post

[KhunFred]

Can't wait to see him behind bars. He needs to die in prison.

[rabas]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

They said "nothing to add at this time". So that doesn't leave open the possibility that at a later time they will? You know, like maybe the reports that they are conducting an investigation are true but the investigation isn't yet finished?

Exactly my point. 

 

Since the FBI has the drives, serial numbers, and all the meta data, they will know if it's real or not. No Schroedinger's cat here. Meta data can independently authenticate each email, when it was sent, by whom, and whether it has it been altered using encrypted keys.

 

So the only question is, what would they do it it were real? Since it would represent possibly the greatest constitutional crisis is US history, they may choose move slowly and carefully.

 

And it it is fake, even one email, How would they proceed? Do you think they dare wait for the election?

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, rabas said:

Exactly my point. 

 

Since the FBI has the drives, serial numbers, and all the meta data, they will know if it's real or not. No Schroedinger's cat here. Meta data can independently authenticate each email, when it was sent, by whom, and whether it has it been altered using encrypted keys.

 

So the only question is, what would they do it it were real? Since it would represent possibly the greatest constitutional crisis is US history, they may choose move slowly and carefully.

 

And it it is fake, even one email, How would they proceed? Do you think they dare wait for the election?

There are a number of ‘Constitutional Crisis’ on the horizon, none of the rooted in this transparent smear campaign.

[candide]

8 minutes ago, rabas said:

Exactly my point. 

 

Since the FBI has the drives, serial numbers, and all the meta data, they will know if it's real or not. No Schroedinger's cat here. Meta data can independently authenticate each email, when it was sent, by whom, and whether it has it been altered using encrypted keys.

 

So the only question is, what would they do it it were real? Since it would represent possibly the greatest constitutional crisis is US history, they may choose move slowly and carefully.

 

And it it is fake, even one email, How would they proceed? Do you think they dare wait for the election?

If I understand well, your point is that:

- if true, Barr would not disclose it for fear it would harm Biden,

- if fake, Barr would release it, which would hel Biden.

 

Is it just me, or is there something illogical about it?

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, rabas said:

Exactly my point. 

 

Since the FBI has the drives, serial numbers, and all the meta data, they will know if it's real or not. No Schroedinger's cat here. Meta data can independently authenticate each email, when it was sent, by whom, and whether it has it been altered using encrypted keys.

 

So the only question is, what would they do it it were real? Since it would represent possibly the greatest constitutional crisis is US history, they may choose move slowly and carefully.

 

And it it is fake, even one email, How would they proceed? Do you think they dare wait for the election?

If it's such an easy thing to do, then why hasn't Rudolph Giuliani released all the data so it can be done quickly and independently"

How many documents are there? It may be simple to do but it may also be time-consuming.

And as for government's good faith in such matters...remember when William Barr was making ominous hints about the Durham investigation? 

 

[rabas]

1 minute ago, candide said:

If I understand well, your point is that:

- if true, Barr would not disclose it for fear it would harm Biden,

- if fake, Barr would release it, which would hel Biden.

 

Is it just me, or is there something illogical about it?

I think its you. I did not mention Barr, I discussed the intelligence agencies and their director Ratcliffe, and, you have copied my logic backwards.

[Damual Travesty]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

My understanding is there is allegedly a mix of real and false content on the HD/s, until forensic examination is completed I'll take it all with a ton of salt. trump has blocked all forensic examination of his personal business and family matters, not a whisper of concern from trump supporters / repub politicians, although they have a long track record of highly questionable business dealing and malfeasance, even with charities monies. The email you refer to, I assume no criminality has been confirmed. Even so the environment is so toxic, IMO current US political space has been ruined by trump. In the meantime trump and family malfeasance is conveniently being shrouded in a massive maze of denial / defection generated by trump and his enablers.

I would like to know where you "understanding" comes from that there is a "mix of real and false content on the HD/s" Can you tell me where you read that? Do you have a link or source? I have not read that anywhere that a claim is made that false content was on the hard drive. I think that if a claim is being made that there is false content by anyone that is someone attempting to put the entire content into question. again please provide your source.

[candide]

3 hours ago, Sujo said:

You do understand the email he discusses is when biden was not in office. It was when trump was in office. Biden was free to deal as he wished.

Which leads to the question Trump's fans are safely avoiding. In case this laptop story were true, which crime would Joe Biden have committed?

[Damual Travesty]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Everything in my post was true.  You have posted nothing to refute it.

 

Now you are implying that the DOJ, under a Trump sycophant appointee, withheld evidence pertinent to the impeachment hearings that would have aided Trump.  You really come across across as being off the deep end.

I am implying specifically that the some people at the FBI may have purposefully withheld information that was on the Hard drive from members of Congress during the Impeachment hearing. I say that because the FBI was in possession of the hard drive during the impeachment hearing. There is no question of that.  Therefore knowing that, I think it is a reasonable question to ask of the FBI as to why they did not release information to the Congress. Wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't you want to ask the FBI director why that is?

[candide]

10 minutes ago, rabas said:

I think its you. I did not mention Barr, I discussed the intelligence agencies and their director Ratcliffe, and, you have copied my logic backwards.

Within the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI is responsible to the attorney general, and it reports its findings to U.S. Attorneys across the country. The FBI’s intelligence activities are overseen by the Director of National Intelligence.

Wether it's about Barr or Radcliffe, it is illogical to think that they would make a decision to withhold or not hold information by considering Biden's best interest.

[Damual Travesty]

3 minutes ago, candide said:

Which leads to the question Trump's fans are safely avoiding. In case this laptop story were true, which crime would Joe Biden have committed?

A (1) reasonable question to ask is when did these deals get put together in China, even if these email detail a deal and the dates are after his time in office, when did the deals get put together. It would seem that would be while Biden was in office as that would be when Hunter originally went to China with his Father. A reasonable question? (2) Concerning Ukraine, were there similar arrangements as to money splits for the "big guy"? and also for other Countries involved here as well. Reasonable questions.

 

Even if all of the China dealings are proved to have taken place after Biden leaving office it is troubling to me, as he is running for President and appears to have recently made deals for a lot of money in China, and I want to know.  Reasonable also I think.

 

As for the crime committed - no questions are being avoided, in fact many questions are being asked. I await Biden to answer them instead of hiding away from the press and refusing to answer. Let's start with were you aware of Hunter's business in Ukraine. Did you in fact meet with officials from Burisma? Did you make any money on the deal? Did you know of your son's business, he has previously said he has no idea what his son was doing. I doubt that.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Damual Travesty said:

I am implying specifically that the some people at the FBI may have purposefully withheld information that was on the Hard drive from members of Congress during the Impeachment hearing. I say that because the FBI was in possession of the hard drive during the impeachment hearing. There is no question of that.  Therefore knowing that, I think it is a reasonable question to ask of the FBI as to why they did not release information to the Congress. Wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't you want to ask the FBI director why that is?

Well, if that's the case, why hasn't William Barr asked? Maybe because he doesn't want to know the answer? Or are you suggesting that Barr is complicit in protecting Hunter Biden?

[Damual Travesty]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Who said they denied it. They refused to admit it.

 

Refusal to deny is not an admission of agreement.

 

Note they said they have nothing to add, so they have no evidence as to the veracity of the claim. Yet some here think they do.

That is some clever wordplay.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Damual Travesty said:

A (1) reasonable question to ask is when did these deals get put together in China, even if these email detail a deal and the dates are after his time in office, when did the deals get put together. It would seem that would be while Biden was in office as that would be when Hunter originally went to China with his Father. A reasonable question? (2) Concerning Ukraine, were there similar arrangements as to money splits for the "big guy"? and also for other Countries involved here as well. Reasonable questions.

 

Even if all of the China dealings are proved to have taken place after Biden leaving office it is troubling to me, as he is running for President and appears to have recently made deals for a lot of money in China, and I want to know.  Reasonable also I think.

 

As for the crime committed - no questions are being avoided, in fact many questions are being asked. I await Biden to answer them instead of hiding away from the press and refusing to answer. Let's start with were you aware of Hunter's business in Ukraine. Did you in fact meet with officials from Burisma? Did you make any money on the deal? Did you know of your son's business, he has previously said he has no idea what his son was doing. I doubt that.

Unless and until the legitimacy of that  hard disk drive and its contents are confirmed, neither Biden should have to answer anything. 

[simple1]

22 minutes ago, Damual Travesty said:

I would like to know where you "understanding" comes from that there is a "mix of real and false content on the HD/s" Can you tell me where you read that? Do you have a link or source? I have not read that anywhere that a claim is made that false content was on the hard drive. I think that if a claim is being made that there is false content by anyone that is someone attempting to put the entire content into question. again please provide your source.

 I find you irritating enough already; Not interested in playing your games..

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by simple1

[Damual Travesty]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, if that's the case, why hasn't William Barr asked? Maybe because he doesn't want to know the answer? Or are you suggesting that Barr is complicit in protecting Hunter Biden?

I do not know what conversations Barr has had with director Wray concerning the Laptop. Do you? No I am not suggesting that Barr is complicit in protecting Hunter Biden, I am suggesting that it is possible that Barr was not aware of the existence of the laptop. I have not heard comment on that from him. A comment on when he knew of its existence. I would like to know when he first heard of the existence of the laptop. If it is not recently, then I want to know why he made no one else aware - perhaps as it was an investigation underway, and it was not thought to go public? If he did not know, then why would the FBI keep that info from Barr? Did Wray know? These are legitimate questions to ask without accusations that I think Barr is protecting Hunter Biden. I want questions answered, both on the content and the handling of the laptop itself.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

duplicate deleted

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by simple1

[opalred]

i feel like crying for you mr trump /we wont tell anyone/ about your dealings while in office /bank accounts in china dealings with turkey son in law  /money from the Arabs/ daughter doing deals with china/while all employed by white house /we could go on  but we wont tell anyone  

 

[placeholder]

Just now, Damual Travesty said:

I do not know what conversations Barr has had with director Wray concerning the Laptop. Do you? No I am not suggesting that Barr is complicit in protecting Hunter Biden, I am suggesting that it is possible that Barr was not aware of the existence of the laptop. I have not heard comment on that from him. A comment on when he knew of its existence. I would like to know when he first heard of the existence of the laptop. If it is not recently, then I want to know why he made no one else aware - perhaps as it was an investigation underway, and it was not thought to go public? If he did not know, then why would the FBI keep that info from Barr? Did Wray know? These are legitimate questions to ask without accusations that I think Barr is protecting Hunter Biden. I want questions answered, both on the content and the handling of the laptop itself.

Once again, unless the legitimacy of that hard disk drive and its contents is established, the Bidens should not address any possible issues it might raise.

[Damual Travesty]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Unless and until the legitimacy of that  hard disk drive and its contents are confirmed, neither Biden should have to answer anything. 

Well, perhaps Hunter could say - "This laptop is not legitimate, the laptop is not mine and this is a hoax"

 

I mean if that is the case, say so. Say it like this, " the signature on the contract is a forgery, the people who say that they were recipients and cross verifying authenticity are liars, the man who owns the store is a liar, all the emails are fake, my business partner now claiming he has additional emails is a liar, and all his claims to have further evidence of business between my Father and him concerning China are lies".

 

That would be a place to start. Are you OK with that?

[Damual Travesty]

2 minutes ago, opalred said:

i feel like crying for you mr trump /we wont tell anyone/ about your dealings while in office /bank accounts in china dealings with turkey son in law  /money from the Arabs/ daughter doing deals with china/while all employed by white house /we could go on  but we wont tell anyone  

 

This would be a rather horrible way for the Bidens' to deny this whole mess.

[Damual Travesty]

5 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Not interested in playing your games.

 

Just as I suspected.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Damual Travesty said:

I do not know what conversations Barr has had with director Wray concerning the Laptop. Do you? No I am not suggesting that Barr is complicit in protecting Hunter Biden, I am suggesting that it is possible that Barr was not aware of the existence of the laptop. I have not heard comment on that from him. A comment on when he knew of its existence. I would like to know when he first heard of the existence of the laptop. If it is not recently, then I want to know why he made no one else aware - perhaps as it was an investigation underway, and it was not thought to go public? If he did not know, then why would the FBI keep that info from Barr? Did Wray know? These are legitimate questions to ask without accusations that I think Barr is protecting Hunter Biden. I want questions answered, both on the content and the handling of the laptop itself.

None of which are the Bidens' responsibility to answer unless and until the legitimacy of the disk and its contents is approved.

[candide]

20 minutes ago, Damual Travesty said:

A (1) reasonable question to ask is when did these deals get put together in China, even if these email detail a deal and the dates are after his time in office, when did the deals get put together. It would seem that would be while Biden was in office as that would be when Hunter originally went to China with his Father. A reasonable question? (2) Concerning Ukraine, were there similar arrangements as to money splits for the "big guy"? and also for other Countries involved here as well. Reasonable questions.

 

Even if all of the China dealings are proved to have taken place after Biden leaving office it is troubling to me, as he is running for President and appears to have recently made deals for a lot of money in China, and I want to know.  Reasonable also I think.

 

As for the crime committed - no questions are being avoided, in fact many questions are being asked. I await Biden to answer them instead of hiding away from the press and refusing to answer. Let's start with were you aware of Hunter's business in Ukraine. Did you in fact meet with officials from Burisma? Did you make any money on the deal? Did you know of your son's business, he has previously said he has no idea what his son was doing. I doubt that.

So, which crime?

[Damual Travesty]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

None of which are the Bidens' responsibility to answer unless and until the legitimacy of the disk and its contents is approved.

If you say so, yeah good idea, Biden should make no comment, all the way to election day and beyond, unless, what do you need as proof? If someone on the receiving end of the email says "Yes, I received this on the same date and time, and Have a copy in my laptop does that verify anything for you? Or does that mean that the recipient could be lying as well? How about the photo's should they release them so they can be independently verified? And the laptop and harddrive itself, why would the Lawyer ask for it back? if it wasn't real? Just questions. Not sure how much more proof should be presented. Perhaps it would be in Biden's interest if no more proof was presented. That is kind of where I am at. I mean it's getting worse isn't it?

[Damual Travesty]

5 minutes ago, candide said:

So, which crime?

Money laundering? Tax evasion? The selling of influence? I am not sure. So many to list. I think more is on the laptop that has not come out yet... wait stop me there... only speculating of course.  Maybe it's all already out.  A lot of this does depend on what happened when he was in office. If you arrange US policy, and receive money from that transaction, that must be some sort of crime, bribery? I mean surely more solid then trying to accuse the President of a bribe for looking into it? Complicated. I know it does not really matter to you, but as an American it turns my stomach. Are such things legal in your country?

[placeholder]

6 minutes ago, Damual Travesty said:

If you say so, yeah good idea, Biden should make no comment, all the way to election day and beyond, unless, what do you need as proof? If someone on the receiving end of the email says "Yes, I received this on the same date and time, and Have a copy in my laptop does that verify anything for you? Or does that mean that the recipient could be lying as well? How about the photo's should they release them so they can be independently verified? And the laptop and harddrive itself, why would the Lawyer ask for it back? if it wasn't real? Just questions. Not sure how much more proof should be presented. Perhaps it would be in Biden's interest if no more proof was presented. That is kind of where I am at. I mean it's getting worse isn't it?

Clearly you've never heard of hacking and tainted leaks. We know Russian hackers broke into Burisma

Russian Hackers Are Using 'Tainted' Leaks to Sow Disinformation

OVER THE PAST year, the Kremlin's strategy of weaponizing leaks to meddle with democracies around the world has become increasingly clear, first in the US and more recently in France. But a new report by a group of security researchers digs into another layer of those so-called influence operations: how Russian hackers alter documents within those releases of hacked material, planting disinformation alongside legitimate leaks.

A new report from researchers at the Citizen Lab group at the University of Toronto's Munk School of Public Affairs documents a wide-ranging hacking campaign, with ties to known Russian hacker groups. 

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/russian-hackers-using-tainted-leaks-sow-disinformation/

[rabas]

20 minutes ago, candide said:

So, which crime?

Personally profiting by supporting the Chinese Communist Party would do it for me.

[Damual Travesty]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Clearly you've never heard of hacking and tainted leaks. We know Russian hackers broke into Burisma

Russian Hackers Are Using 'Tainted' Leaks to Sow Disinformation

OVER THE PAST year, the Kremlin's strategy of weaponizing leaks to meddle with democracies around the world has become increasingly clear, first in the US and more recently in France. But a new report by a group of security researchers digs into another layer of those so-called influence operations: how Russian hackers alter documents within those releases of hacked material, planting disinformation alongside legitimate leaks.

A new report from researchers at the Citizen Lab group at the University of Toronto's Munk School of Public Affairs documents a wide-ranging hacking campaign, with ties to known Russian hacker groups. 

https://www.wired.com/2017/05/russian-hackers-using-tainted-leaks-sow-disinformation/

Why would you make such a deprecating statement about me? Why begin your comment by saying something so ridiculous as I have never heard of hacking or leaks? Look, let's get back to square one here. The emails, they are right now as we speak being verified by the parties who were involved with them. Meaning they are confirming they received the emails. That is one way that proves their validity. The other way is that there is information on the laptop, that Rudy is claiming could only be known to Hunter. Is that true? Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. The lawyer asked for the lap top back. That does seem to indicate that the laptop was Hunter's. The signature, seems to be real. I assume a cursory handwriting analysis has been done. Of course experts can always conflict with each other in a court of law. A 3rd party has come forward, yes someone with an axe to grind, but a former business partner who has now allowed access to his account to the Washington Post. Are the emails he has real? Or did he fake them in an elaborate ruse timed to this - possible. But on the other hand the volume of what must be faked here is pretty huge, wouldn't ya say? And the DNI has stated HE had no evidence that this was a hoax, and maybe just maybe he like me has heard of hacking even though he does not read Wired.  Of course all of this could be put to rest rather quickly, Hunter Biden goes on Twitter, and says that even in his wildest crack smoking days he does not remember ever leaving this laptop there". Not even a denial, just a "I don't recall" statement, something to add to the obfuscation of the reality of all of this. Joe too, he can say again, "Look c'mon man", I wasn't involved in any of my son's business in any way. Most certainly I never got a percentage of anything". These are simple short statements that can be made. I assume that he is saving them for the debate in a carefully calibrated statement, if he is still in the race. But maybe this elaborate Russian/Republican hoax is about to be exposed!!!!!! Anything is possible right?

[placeholder]

What makes this all so nonsensical is that Joseph Biden has been in public life for 47 years and no evidence ever of financial shenanigans. Now at this late dates he's become a criminal?