Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[Mavideol]

2 minutes ago, Misab said:

Yes, you paid a lot so do all the others EU countries but you forget the benefits, the value of the free trade deal, this alone was worth more than you paid. What do you think is the reason for the big drop in your exchange rate vis-à-vis other countries?

you are asking to much from them, they are narrow minded and can't see no further than the end of their nose 555

[Hi from France]

15 hours ago, izod10 said:

Think not. The fund set up by the thrifty EU states to help out especially italy,Spain etc,is a poisoned chalice,untouched by any of the desperate ones   Too many poisoness conditions attached to the offerings, will see Italy leave the EU in couple of years

 

Troika     thats the word was looking for      Leave Italy etc  just likened to Greece

Sorry but though you are stating your opinion, I do not see any objective facts here. 

"poisoned chalice" is a metaphor, I cannot see what it means besides that.. 

 

A lot of brexiters talk is always like that, it do not seem to be precise, it's just "oh I hate the EU", "I think it's going to explode, we need to leave at once", "when the EU sets up solidarity it is in fact, poison". 

 

I understand you do not like the European project, I get it.

 

I 100% agree with people like you leaving the UE. 

 

Now, taking an interest in Brexit, what we have experienced in the last four years is the opposite of your "doomsday predictions" and you discourse does not seem to take any these facts into consideration. 

 

Or do you?

 

What I saw these last few years is indeed the western world declining, but this is the USA and Britain populist governments messing up. In this mess, the EU is faring pretty well. By comparison, I mean. 

 

Can you really prove Trump and BJ did so well, while the EU did so bad? I mean, you can repeat again and again that the EU is collapsing, but indeed it does not.

 

What's I see is a more cohesive EU and empty brexiter promises. There are indeed massive issues in the EU, but we're clearly moving forward, and the absence of the British veto really helped. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Hi from France

[transam]

45 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

you are asking to much from them, they are narrow minded and can't see no further than the end of their nose 555

British nose,  don't forget that, British, unlike you, we are free again, enjoy your mire...????

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

British nose,  don't forget that, British, unlike you, we are free again, enjoy your mire...????

As free as you can be as a Brit living in Thailand. 

[BritManToo]

Just now, Kadilo said:

As free as you can be as a Brit living in Thailand. 

Probably more free than being a Brit living in Britain.

No going out after 10pm, no meetings of more than 6 people even in your own home.

[transam]

21 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

As free as you can be as a Brit living in Thailand. 

Well yes, but I am a non immigrant, remember that.....????

[Chomper Higgot]

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Probably more free than being a Brit living in Britain.

No going out after 10pm, no meetings of more than 6 people even in your own home.

And who’s do you blame for that?

 

I trust not the people you were cheering for at the last election!

[andyg75]

27 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

As free as you can be as a Brit living in Thailand. 

I live here quite freely,my daily life is stress free and no problems,couldn’t be happier .

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, Misab said:

I see the EU as the best thing that has happened in Europe. The problem was the UK, who always wanted more and wanted to paid less, but now they are out. Thanks you so much. Finally, let them be happy, let them leave without a deal.

Thank you, very magnanimous of you, seeing as how you've had a years contributions for absolutely nothing, including no good will in any negotiations. 

 

We will be ecstatically happy with a no deal, since the alternative is to be shackled to the EU's rules and controls. 

 

Bye Bye!

[transam]

1 minute ago, Tofer said:

Thank you, very magnanimous of you, seeing as how you've had a years contributions for absolutely nothing, including no good will in any negotiations. 

 

We will be ecstatically happy with a no deal, since the alternative is to be shackled to the EU's rules and controls. 

 

Bye Bye!

Strange the pro-EU chaps posting here ignore the rumblings going on inside the EU outside the Brexit thingy, strange that....????

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, Mavideol said:

if that's is (was) the case why the UK keeps going back and forth asking for more and more concessions .... did you heard BJ last week  asking for a "special" treatment from the EU based on the 45 years relationship they had,  if that was not asking for a special deal....

Another delusional character. I think it was BJ who said don't bother coming for anymore talks / negotiations, if you can't drop your ridiculous demands.

 

Enlighten me, by all means, if you can identify any trade deal the EU have done with any other independent country, where free access to their territorial waters, control of their governance, and legal jurisdiction were demanded?

[Tofer]

1 hour ago, Misab said:

Yes, you paid a lot so do all the others EU countries but you forget the benefits, the value of the free trade deal, this alone was worth more than you paid. What do you think is the reason for the big drop in your exchange rate vis-à-vis other countries?

Uncertainty dear chap, nothing more, nothing less, all thanks to the EU dragging it out as long as possible.

[Lormak]

2021 is going to be fun!  UK free and independent. Pull up a chair get out the popcorn and watch the EU crash and burn!  I predict mass civil unrest across the EU and a collapse of the Euro.

The EU is sinking and the UK are rowing away in a lifeboat called 'Brexit'!

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Another delusional character. I think it was BJ who said don't bother coming for anymore talks / negotiations, if you can't drop your ridiculous demands.

 

Johnson was always a dab-hand at playing to the gallery.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Chomper Higgot

[sanuk711]

On 10/17/2020 at 7:43 AM, BritManToo said:

The Germans weren't happy with us since we beat Hitler.

The French weren't happy with us since we beat Napoleon.

The Spanish weren't happy with us since we sunk their Armada.

 

[Matzzon]

On 10/17/2020 at 1:39 AM, allane said:

Why should the EU negotiate with an ex-member, that voted to leave ? They should let Britain stand outside in the cold for twenty or twenty-five years. Then maybe let them back in, if they ask nicely.

Exactly! It´s hilarious that the buffon they have as a prime minister can´t explain to his people that they can´t decide to leave and then demand to have all the exclusive rights at the same time as a trade deal on their demands.

[FritsSikkink]

“Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market”. Daniel Hannan, 12/5/15.
“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”. Michael Gove, 9/4/16.
“British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; and buy homes and settle down. There will continue to be free trade and access to the single market”. Boris Johnson, 26/6/16.
“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy - the UK holds most of the cards”. John Redwood, 17/7/16.
“There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside”. David Davis, 10/10/16.
“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history”. Liam Fox, 20/7/17.
“Most of the EU states are very sympathetic to our view”. David Davis, 15/5/17.
“I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019”. David Davis, 18/1/17.
“Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU … The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated”. David Davis, 14/7/16.
“There is no plan for no deal, because we’re going to get a great deal”. Boris Johnson, 11/7/17.
“But we didn’t vote to leave without a deal. That wasn’t the message of the campaign I helped lead. During that campaign, we said we should do a deal with the EU and be part of the network of free trade deals that covers all Europe, from Iceland to Turkey. Leaving without a deal on March 29 would not honour that commitment. It would undoubtedly cause economic turbulence.” Michael Gove, 3/3/19.
“I’ve looked carefully at ‘no deal’. That outcome would be a failure of statecraft”, Boris Johnson, 9/9/19.
"I can indeed assure the hon. Lady that there will be no crashing out, because we will negotiate a great new friendship and partnership within the timescale. I know that hon. Members on both sides of the House have every confidence in the Government to do that. " Boris Johnson, 22/10/19.
“We have an ‘oven ready’ deal, let's put it in the microwave, as soon as we get back after the election on 12 December." Boris Johnson, 31/10/19.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Exactly! It´s hilarious that the buffon they have as a prime minister can´t explain to his people that they can´t decide to leave and then demand to have all the exclusive rights at the same time as a trade deal on their demands.

Since when has an Italian goalkeeper been the Prime Minister of the UK?

[Kadilo]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Well yes, but I am a non immigrant, remember that.....????

I assume you will be returning to the UK once all these new found freedoms and benefits of Brexit kick in?

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, Mavideol said:

if that's is (was) the case why the UK keeps going back and forth asking for more and more concessions .... did you heard BJ last week  asking for a "special" treatment from the EU based on the 45 years relationship they had,  if that was not asking for a special deal....

Viewed from France this is nothing new, the UK is viewed as complaining about the UE being slow while blocking decisions, complaining membership is too expensive while paying less than other countries, reaping the benefits of the Euro markets while keeping the pound .. Things are more much complicated in reality, but this is the opinion of the wider public. 

 

Ironically, these complains seem a bit harmless: now Britain has left, the Brits lost the power to block the Union (while claiming they now have "more sovereignty"). 

 

Whatever deal is stuck, British access to European markets will be controlled and the UE will aim for "taking back control".

 

This is very likely to work in some domains (industry, most services), but will it work in financial services/markets?

 

That's unclear, and in the short term, this is (my opinion) certainly not happening. 

[RayC]

43 minutes ago, vogie said:

Since when has an Italian goalkeeper been the Prime Minister of the UK?

If only Sig. Buffon - Italian goalkeeper; excellent pair of hands - had been in charge of the UK, rather than Mr. Johnson - UK opportunist; buffon (synonym: fool) - the UK might not have been in its current mess.

[Mavideol]

2 hours ago, Tofer said:

Another delusional character. I think it was BJ who said don't bother coming for anymore talks / negotiations, if you can't drop your ridiculous demands.

 

Enlighten me, by all means, if you can identify any trade deal the EU have done with any other independent country, where free access to their territorial waters, control of their governance, and legal jurisdiction were demanded?

did you understand my post and it's sarcasm ?  are you insinuating/assuming I am a brexiter or are you delusional, the last thing I want to do it's a deal with the UK, I want them gone ASAP (we have an expression in France, (part avec une main devant et l'autre derriere) hope it translate the same way into English) leave with one hand in front and the other on their back covering their rear hole, meaning leaving without nothing

Edited October 18, 2020 by Mavideol

[RayC]

6 hours ago, Tofer said:

The EU were happy enough with a Canada style deal with Canada. What's the difference??

Put as simply as possible:

 

No two bi-lateral trade deals are identical.

 

(Presumably) Canada and the EU were both happy with the terms of their agreement.

 

Canada is +/-3,600 miles from Brussels. London is +/-250 miles from Brussels.

 

The EU does not deem to be in its interests to agree to a Canada-type deal with a major competitor on its doorstep.

 

Those are (some of) the differences. 

 

Btw: Barnier made it clear back in February that the EU did not want a Canada-type deal. Why didn't the UK accept this and move on?

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, Mavideol said:

 (we have an expression in France, (part avec une main devant et l'autre derriere) hope it translate the same way into English) leave with one hand in front and the other on their back covering their rear hole, meaning leaving without nothing

I do not think this is the right thing to do, we do need a fair, even durable deal

 

for me, the problem is the brexiters politicians have set very high expectations with their "oven-ready deal" (and other promises to the british people see picture below). 

 

Sad reality is that we was known from the start: the UK is the weakest party, and that is the case as well with the US and China.

 

Now what does a populist politician do in this situation? The only leeway is to threaten, escalate, and worse break the word of a country which used to be the world model of the rule of law .. (basically, England created the rule of law in 1215 with the Magna carta)

Edited October 18, 2020 by Hi from France

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Sad reality is that we was known from the start: the UK is the weakest party, and that is the case as well with the US and China.

 

Now what does a populist politician do in this situation? The only leeway is to threaten, escalate, and worse break the word fo a country which used to epitome the rule of law ..

Ha ha, your idea that the UK is the weakest party doesn't quite ring true now. Boris has shown the EU the door, with instructions to not come back unless there is a fundamental change of approach. Additionally, Macron's populist posturing over fish only gives the UK more leverage every time he speaks. Not bad for your weakest party.

 

What does Boris do - exactly what he was voted in for, with a landslide. No need for threats anymore, simply send them home without a deal that the rest of the EU desperately wants. Boris's next step should be to ditch the WA too. No need to be tied to an unfair agreement for a FTA that the EU would not negotiate in good faith. We have our own laws which override the EU's trickery.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Ha ha, your idea that the UK is the weakest party doesn't quite ring true now. Boris has shown the EU the door, with instructions to not come back unless there is a fundamental change of approach. Additionally, Macron's populist posturing over fish only gives the UK more leverage every time he speaks. Not bad for your weakest party.

 

What does Boris do - exactly what he was voted in for, with a landslide. No need for threats anymore, simply send them home without a deal that the rest of the EU desperately wants. Boris's next step should be to ditch the WA too. No need to be tied to an unfair agreement for a FTA that the EU would not negotiate in good faith. We have our own laws which override the EU's trickery.

What leverage did Johnson gain, and how do you think he will use that leverage to help us maximise our Somalia-style deal?

 

 

[Hi from France]

13 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Ha ha, your idea that the UK is the weakest party doesn't quite ring true now. Boris has shown the EU the door, with instructions to not come back unless there is a fundamental change of approach.

It is important to differentiate populist discourse from reality. I wouldn't go as far as to say the UK has no leverage at all, but indeed it has little leverage and is dissatisfied with the present situation.

 

Otherwise we would not be in this mess, with a UK disrespecting the treaty your country just signed.

 

 

 

We can just test that: again there are below some of the promises from the politicians who took power in the UK after Brexit.

 

The question today is easy to decide, are these promise kept, yes or no? You can analyse all four if you will, no ifs, no buts.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Hi from France

[Misab]

4 hours ago, Tofer said:

Thank you, very magnanimous of you, seeing as how you've had a years contributions for absolutely nothing, including no good will in any negotiations. 

 

We will be ecstatically happy with a no deal, since the alternative is to be shackled to the EU's rules and controls. 

 

Bye Bye!

Bye Bye

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, Lormak said:

2021 is going to be fun!  UK free and independent. Pull up a chair get out the popcorn and watch the EU crash and burn!  I predict mass civil unrest across the EU and a collapse of the Euro.

The EU is sinking and the UK are rowing away in a lifeboat called 'Brexit'!

This crystal ball of yours, next week’s lottery numbers please or are you sticking to Leo because you like it?!

[Loiner]

19 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

It is important to differentiate populist discourse from reality. I wouldn't go as far as to say the UK has no leverage at all, but indeed it has little leverage and is dissatisfied with the present situation.

 

Otherwise we would not be in this mess, with a UK disrespecting the treaty your country just signed.

 

The reality is that li'l 'ole UK has told the EU where to go. Popular around here, but it is reality too. You don't have any deal now unless the EU bends. The biggest leverage is in the eight EU coastal states claims on UK fishing waters and Macron's threats to veto any deal unless he gets his hands on our fish.  

 

Given the EU's arrogant and not in good faith performance over this year of negotiations, you underestimated Boris and brought about the mess. The WA was to enable the FTA, in the absence of which Boris should now ditch the whole thing and carry on with more UK legislation. The EU's treaty made in bad faith carries nothing worthy of respect.