Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

If i was you..., I would be more concerned about the possible splitting from your own union , as I saw last pol 58% for SNP …… and no people you can withhold from independence if really wished deep …..best proof is your own ….Brexit  ????

Not forgetting eventual unification of The Island of Ireland after the consequences of Brexit kick's in 

Why do you think this is a concern for us? A united Ireland would be fine by me, as long as the NI people want it. Same for Scottish independence. 

Why do you Europhiles continually tell us Brexiteers that we are worried about these things? 

 

Clearly you are more concerned about it than we are ????

 

[nauseus]

7 hours ago, david555 said:

They can have  their fish …. but I want my € handled by Frankfurt Paris or Amsterdam or even in joint venture by them , it is ours..., just like they claim their waters ...

Don't worry   be happy   ECB is in Frankfurt.

[david555]

29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Don't worry   be happy   ECB is in Frankfurt.

I know , but now  we go handle our € passporting on top also ....????

[david555]

41 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Why do you think this is a concern for us? A united Ireland would be fine by me, as long as the NI people want it. Same for Scottish independence. 

Why do you Europhiles continually tell us Brexiteers that we are worried about these things? 

 

Clearly you are more concerned about it than we are ????

 

"Why do you Europhiles continually tell us Brexiteers that we are worried about these things? "

 

Because you Brexiteers say that same about us ......or do you not realize that ?

So why you are concerned about us .????

Pot... Kettle ....????

 

O.K. dont worry if no problem , everybody happy ...????

Edited October 24, 2020 by david555

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

"Why do you Europhiles continually tell us Brexiteers that we are worried about these things? "

 

Because you Brexiteers say that same about us ......or do you not realize that ?

So why you are concerned about us .????

Pot... Kettle ....????

 

O.K. dont worry if no problem , everybody happy ...????

I don't understand your point. What do we say about you? 

[Hi from France]

There are indications Johnson awaits the outcome of the US election to make his decision on the Brexit deal 

 

 

 

Johnson will wait for US election result before no-deal Brexit decision

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/24/johnson-will-wait-for-us-election-result-before-no-deal-brexit-decision 

 

 

He insulted many these last years, including Obama and the democrats 

 

They will block a trade deal with us if they think we are putting the Good Friday agreement at risk. And they remember and resent Johnson’s comments in 2016 about ‘the part-Kenyan president’ having ‘an ancestral dislike of the British empire’ – not to mention Johnson telling US diplomats that Trump was ‘making America great again’.”

 

 

 

In Washington there are plenty of foreign policy advisers around Biden who worked in the Obama administration and have not forgiven Johnson for his “part-Kenyan” comments. The camp sees Johnson as part of the same populist phenomenon that brought Trump to power. And from the Democrats’ point of view, the UK outside the EU will make it less important as a partner on the world stage.

 

 

 

The USA would also need to restore the alliance with the EU to counter China (the UK has lost its leadership role in the EU) 

 

“In all these giant issues – tech and disinformation and China, and trade, the position of the EU on those issues is just a lot more important than the position of the UK,” said Ben Rhodes, Obama’s foreign policy adviser. “For these big ticket items I think that Brussels, Berlin and Paris are just much more in the middle of it all, than London will be.”

 

 

Still some cards to play for the British diplomats 

 

Foreign Office and Downing Street officials downplay the prospect of difficulties in the “special relationship” if Biden wins. They point out the UK will have opportunities to take the lead on the world stage and build relations with a new US administration. They cite the fact that the UK will chair the UN security council from February, and the rotating presidency of the G7 from the US, as well as hosting the 26th Conference of Parties (COP 26) on climate change in Glasgow in November 2021.

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Hi from France

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

There are indications Johnson awaits the outcome of the US election to make his decision on the Brexit deal 

 

 

 

Johnson will wait for US election result before no-deal Brexit decision

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/24/johnson-will-wait-for-us-election-result-before-no-deal-brexit-decision 

 

 

He insulted many these last years, including Obama and the democrats 

 

They will block a trade deal with us if they think we are putting the Good Friday agreement at risk. And they remember and resent Johnson’s comments in 2016 about ‘the part-Kenyan president’ having ‘an ancestral dislike of the British empire’ – not to mention Johnson telling US diplomats that Trump was ‘making America great again’.”

 

 

 

In Washington there are plenty of foreign policy advisers around Biden who worked in the Obama administration and have not forgiven Johnson for his “part-Kenyan” comments. The camp sees Johnson as part of the same populist phenomenon that brought Trump to power. And from the Democrats’ point of view, the UK outside the EU will make it less important as a partner on the world stage.

 

 

 

The USA would also need to restore the alliance with the EU to counter China (the UK has lost its leadership role in the EU) 

 

“In all these giant issues – tech and disinformation and China, and trade, the position of the EU on those issues is just a lot more important than the position of the UK,” said Ben Rhodes, Obama’s foreign policy adviser. “For these big ticket items I think that Brussels, Berlin and Paris are just much more in the middle of it all, than London will be.”

 

 

Still some cards to play for the British diplomats 

 

Foreign Office and Downing Street officials downplay the prospect of difficulties in the “special relationship” if Biden wins. They point out the UK will have opportunities to take the lead on the world stage and build relations with a new US administration. They cite the fact that the UK will chair the UN security council from February, and the rotating presidency of the G7 from the US, as well as hosting the 26th Conference of Parties (COP 26) on climate change in Glasgow in November 2021.

 

 

If you can't be bothered to quote, cite and reference properly, you are really wasting everyone's time.

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, david555 said:

I know , but now  we go handle our € passporting on top also ....????

 

Or maybe under the table? ????

 

[Hi from France]

Quote

A comprehensive trade agreement between Britain and America was held up by Brexiteers as a major upside to ending membership of the European Union, which barred the UK from negotiating its own deals, during the 2016 referendum.

 

Talks have progressed at pace since the UK left the EU in January but replacing Mr Trump, a vocal supporter of Brexit who has promised a “great” deal”, with Mr Biden, a Brexit opponent whose views on talks are unclear, could be problematic..

 

And as for reneging on the Withdrawal Agreement, it won't do with Biden who is 4/5 Irish becomes president 

 

Quote

Much attention has focussed on the public warnings by Mr Biden and senior Democratic congressmen that there will be no trade deal if Northern Ireland peace is undermined by Brexit.

 

From a Brexiter newspaper 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/24/revealed-britain-scrambling-save-us-trade-deal-joe-biden-wins/

[david555]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Or maybe under the table? ????

 

maybe like your city do  with the Russian oligarch's money ????

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, Hi from France said:

There are indications Johnson awaits the outcome of the US election to make his decision on the Brexit deal 

 

 

 

Johnson will wait for US election result before no-deal Brexit decision

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/24/johnson-will-wait-for-us-election-result-before-no-deal-brexit-decision 

 

 

He insulted many these last years, including Obama and the democrats 

 

They will block a trade deal with us if they think we are putting the Good Friday agreement at risk. And they remember and resent Johnson’s comments in 2016 about ‘the part-Kenyan president’ having ‘an ancestral dislike of the British empire’ – not to mention Johnson telling US diplomats that Trump was ‘making America great again’.”

 

 

 

In Washington there are plenty of foreign policy advisers around Biden who worked in the Obama administration and have not forgiven Johnson for his “part-Kenyan” comments. The camp sees Johnson as part of the same populist phenomenon that brought Trump to power. And from the Democrats’ point of view, the UK outside the EU will make it less important as a partner on the world stage.

 

 

 

The USA would also need to restore the alliance with the EU to counter China (the UK has lost its leadership role in the EU) 

 

“In all these giant issues – tech and disinformation and China, and trade, the position of the EU on those issues is just a lot more important than the position of the UK,” said Ben Rhodes, Obama’s foreign policy adviser. “For these big ticket items I think that Brussels, Berlin and Paris are just much more in the middle of it all, than London will be.”

 

 

Still some cards to play for the British diplomats 

 

Foreign Office and Downing Street officials downplay the prospect of difficulties in the “special relationship” if Biden wins. They point out the UK will have opportunities to take the lead on the world stage and build relations with a new US administration. They cite the fact that the UK will chair the UN security council from February, and the rotating presidency of the G7 from the US, as well as hosting the 26th Conference of Parties (COP 26) on climate change in Glasgow in November 2021.

 

Talk about clutching at straws!

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, Tofer said:

Just about the time the Brexit debates were going on... Or would you care to identify his previous speeches. 

Came to parliament in June 2015 and took office on the APPG a couple of weeks later

 

The SNP’s Pensions Spokesperson and newly elected MP for Ross, Skye and Lochaber, Ian Blackford, has become a Vice Chair of the APPG on Frozen British Pensions.

http://frozenbritishpensions.org/ian-blackford-elected-as-appg-vice-chair/

 

Then a week later

 

The EDM was tabled by APPG Vice Chair, Yasmin Qureshi (Labour), with co-sponsorship from Sir Peter Bottomley (Conservative), Ian Blackford (SNP) and Greg Mulholland (Lib Dem).

http://frozenbritishpensions.org/appg-members-table-early-day-motion-363/

 

Ian Blackford stands for the rights of Scotland regarding brexit, and the rights of UK pensioners on frozen pensions, but you cannot see past the bigotry.

[polpott]

10 hours ago, Loiner said:

Although this was forecast, it could be sooner than we expect?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1351809/brexit-news-eu-france-germany-fishing-boris-johnson-car-manufacturers-emmanuel-macron

 

Nicolas Bay, General Secretary of National Rally, formerly National Front. Right up your street. Even less respected in the European parliament than Farage was.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, david555 said:

They can have  their fish …. but I want my € handled by Frankfurt Paris or Amsterdam or even in joint venture by them , it is ours..., just like they claim their waters ...

Quite, they will have more fish than they know what to do with.

France likes the Scottish seafood as traditionally they have bought it live but these days there is little impediment to buying it from elsewhere.

Losing the French market will be devastating for rural communities in Scotland but of little concern to the English tucking into the cheap fish and chips.

Economically the whole issue is small fry, it is all about trying to get one over on the EU but in the end we will all lose out.

[Smilermike]

On 10/17/2020 at 6:46 AM, dimitriv said:

 

Exactly. Close the tunnel, cancel all flights, nothing in, and nothing out. Let them trade with the US and Australia, because it seems that's the only thing that will make them happy.

 

I am so tired of the UK.

 

 

I wish we would close the tunnel.  As i am sooo tired of French people moaning. 

 

 

[Loiner]

4 hours ago, polpott said:

Nicolas Bay, General Secretary of National Rally, formerly National Front. Right up your street. Even less respected in the European parliament than Farage was.

Sounds like a good Euro. If the EU parliament don’t like him then he must be. 

[7by7]

On 10/20/2020 at 3:13 AM, nauseus said:

Here you go. Got up early just for you. The sampling totals by area seem disproportionate to population numbers in some areas and I'd like to see more geographical and actual sample detail about specific regions, especially the "rest of south", which could skew the overall results a lot. 

 

But then it is just a poll:

 

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/5l5pygu8gt/TimesResults_200924_VI_Trackers_W.pdf

 

Thank you for that and apologies for my tardiness in responding.

 

You have produced the results and weightings from polls conducted on 24/9/20; mine were from a long sequence of polls from 28/9/2016 to 8/10/20; which includes yours but I don't know if the samples were the same.

 

However, using your tables, apart from London the south voted leave in 2016. In fact, all of the English regions did! As did Wales. (Source). As Northern Ireland isn't included in your results, only Scotland and London represent areas with Remain majorities in 2016. Together they have 335 weighted samples out of a total of 1623; 20.6%!

 

So if the results are skewed at all, then they're skewed towards Leave!

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Thank you for that and apologies for my tardiness in responding.

 

You have produced the results and weightings from polls conducted on 24/9/20; mine were from a long sequence of polls from 28/9/2016 to 8/10/20; which includes yours but I don't know if the samples were the same.

 

However, using your tables, apart from London the south voted leave in 2016. In fact, all of the English regions did! As did Wales. (Source). As Northern Ireland isn't included in your results, only Scotland and London represent areas with Remain majorities in 2016. Together they have 335 weighted samples out of a total of 1623; 20.6%!

 

So if the results are skewed at all, then they're skewed towards Leave!

 

Not my tables and, like I said, no real detail. The 'rest of south' region might be all close to London and that would make a huge difference. 

[7by7]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not my tables

My use of the possessive pronouns was not to suggest that you and I had produced them; but to differentiate between the tables you linked to and those I had.

 

30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

and, like I said, no real detail. The 'rest of south' region might be all close to London and that would make a huge difference. 

Sorry, a poor excuse. All of the South voted Leave; including the area closest to London; the South East. 

 

[Hi from France]

10 hours ago, 7by7 said:

My use of the possessive pronouns was not to suggest that you and I had produced them; but to differentiate between the tables you linked to and those I had.

 

Sorry, a poor excuse. All of the South voted Leave; including the area closest to London; the South East. 

 

 

Nice visual, though it all depends how you regroup the data. 

For example in Wales, I read that Welsh - speaking area were "remain". 

 

Now the message of this overall 50% split meaning is very clear : is means a moderate Brexit, not the extreme form of Brexit which is now imposed.

 

These last years, Brexiteers went from a reassuring "oven ready deal", "simplest-ever", to a "no-ECJ", "no level playing field" discourse, with the consequence that the best treaty now is closer to a no-deal than to the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) option, which the referendum result would call for. 

 

And there is a serious threat on the Union : northern Ireland already was set to be reunited long term, but a Scottish independence is now in the polls by a wide margin 

 

Quote

By the autumn of 2019, clear majorities of Conservative voters were ready to jettison the UK, and even the Conservative party itself, in pursuit of Brexit.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/25/north-south-divide-old-as-england-itself-unity-is-only--ever-fleeting

 

 

It's your country and your responsibility, but it seems like you have a choice between this extreme Brexit and the Union.

 

But you cannot have both

 

. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Hi from France

[nauseus]

11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

My use of the possessive pronouns was not to suggest that you and I had produced them; but to differentiate between the tables you linked to and those I had.

 

Sorry, a poor excuse. All of the South voted Leave; including the area closest to London; the South East. 

 

 

I'm not making excuses and you are incorrect when you say that 'all of the south voted leave'. There is not enough geographic detail w.r.t. the location of the samples. Pockets of areas in the south (e.g. Brighton) had a very high remain vote in 2016. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

 

Nice visual, though it all depends how you regroup the data. 

For example in Wales, I read that Welsh - speaking area were "remain". 

 

Now the message of this overall 50% split meaning is very clear : is means a moderate Brexit, not the extreme form of Brexit which is now imposed.

 

These last years, Brexiteers went from a reassuring "oven ready deal", "simplest-ever", to a "no-ECJ", "no level playing field" discourse, with the consequence that the best treaty now is closer to a no-deal than to the European Free Trade Association (EFTA) option, which the referendum result would call for. 

 

And there is a serious threat on the Union : northern Ireland already was set to be reunited long term, but a Scottish independence is now in the polls by a wide margin 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/25/north-south-divide-old-as-england-itself-unity-is-only--ever-fleeting

 

 

It's your country and your responsibility, but it seems like you have a choice between this extreme Brexit and the Union.

 

But you cannot have both

 

. 

 

Like cake and eating it? Or fish?

[Loiner]

5 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Now the message of this overall 50% split meaning is very clear : is means a moderate Brexit, not the extreme form of Brexit which is now imposed.

No it does not. You have no idea of how 'extreme' the majority voted for Brexit. However, as it was the majority there is no requirement to make any consideration at all of how extreme a Remain the losers voted for. The Remainers and EU lost, that is all.

[7by7]

7 hours ago, Hi from France said:

<snip>

Nice visual, though it all depends how you regroup the data. 

For example in Wales, I read that Welsh - speaking area were "remain".

 The Electoral Commission's EU referendum results by region: Wales shows that of the 22 Welsh regions, only 5 voted Remain. 

 

Which of those areas are majority Welsh speaking, I don't know.

[7by7]

5 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

I'm not making excuses and you are incorrect when you say that 'all of the south voted leave'. There is not enough geographic detail w.r.t. the location of the samples. Pockets of areas in the south (e.g. Brighton) had a very high remain vote in 2016. 

 

EU referendum results by region: South East shows that out of 67 areas, 24 voted Remain; including Brighton and Hove.

 

I'll let you check the South West if you wish.

 

The SE region as a whole voted to leave by 51/8% to 48.2%. Very similar to the 51.9% to 48.1% result for the whole country.

 

Your trying to argue that because some areas in a region voted Remain means that saying the whole region voted Leave is incorrect is ridiculous; as ridiculous as were I to try to argue that because some areas of the UK voted Remain the whole referendum result is incorrect!

 

Your argument mainly falls down, though, because a whole country, Northern Ireland, which voted Remain is not included in the poll!

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

No it does not. You have no idea of how 'extreme' the majority voted for Brexit. However, as it was the majority there is no requirement to make any consideration at all of how extreme a Remain the losers voted for. The Remainers and EU lost, that is all.

 Yes, Leave won.

 

Won on the false promises of Vote.Leave that leaving meant we'd ditch the bits we didn't like but keep all the bits we did and the outright xenophobia of Farage and others of his ilk.

 

The xenophobes would still have followed Farage and voted Leave.

 

The dyed in the wool EU haters would still have voted Leave regardless of any and all arguments.

 

But both of these would not have been sufficient. Leave won because enough people fell for Vote.Leave's lies to give them the narrow victory.

 

Yes, Leave did win, though, and we have left the EU. All we can hope for now is that Cummings and his puppet see sense and don't condemn us to the disaster of no deal.

[nauseus]

25 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

EU referendum results by region: South East shows that out of 67 areas, 24 voted Remain; including Brighton and Hove.

 

I'll let you check the South West if you wish.

 

The SE region as a whole voted to leave by 51/8% to 48.2%. Very similar to the 51.9% to 48.1% result for the whole country.

 

Your trying to argue that because some areas in a region voted Remain means that saying the whole region voted Leave is incorrect is ridiculous; as ridiculous as were I to try to argue that because some areas of the UK voted Remain the whole referendum result is incorrect!

 

Your argument mainly falls down, though, because a whole country, Northern Ireland, which voted Remain is not included in the poll!

 

That doesn't read very well. You might want to have another go.

 

[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Yes, Leave won.

 

Won on the false promises of Vote.Leave that leaving meant we'd ditch the bits we didn't like but keep all the bits we did and the outright xenophobia of Farage and others of his ilk.

 

The xenophobes would still have followed Farage and voted Leave.

 

The dyed in the wool EU haters would still have voted Leave regardless of any and all arguments.

 

But both of these would not have been sufficient. Leave won because enough people fell for Vote.Leave's lies to give them the narrow victory.

 

Yes, Leave did win, though, and we have left the EU. All we can hope for now is that Cummings and his puppet see sense and don't condemn us to the disaster of no deal.

 

Leave won because, over a long period, the majority had had time to come to their own conclusions about EU membership. The decision was little to do with the leave/remain campaigns and there were lies from both sides anyway. How many times do we have to revisit this? Boring!  

[Loiner]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Leave won because, over a long period, the majority had had time to come to their own conclusions about EU membership. The decision was little to do with the leave/remain campaigns and there were lies from both sides anyway. How many times do we have to revisit this? Boring!  

Of course that's why Leave won - because Brexiteers have the long experience of the EU. It's only the losers who constantly revert to their "you were lied to" or insults about stupid/xenophobe/waycist etc.

The real truth is that the gullible younger generation, southern softy lefties and general wet europhiles were suckered by the government propaganda and their own selfish vested interests. They still won't admit it though, even as we quickly approach the final hurdle.

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

Of course that's why Leave won - because Brexiteers have the long experience of the EU. It's only the losers who constantly revert to their "you were lied to" or insults about stupid/xenophobe/waycist etc.

The real truth is that the gullible younger generation, southern softy lefties and general wet europhiles were suckered by the government propaganda and their own selfish vested interests. They still won't admit it though, even as we quickly approach the final hurdle.

A final hurdle that you Brexiteers will fail to get over.

All those promises. All that bluff and bluster. All that jingoistic nonsense. All those meaningless slogans.

The truth is going to hit hard come January. 

Now I imagine that great efforts will be put in by you guys to blame anyone and everyone but yourselves for the disaster.

But the truth is. You guys wanted Brexit.

You got what you voted for.