Brexit brinkmanship: Johnson says prepare for no-deal, cancels trade talks

[Baerboxer]

45 minutes ago, RayC said:

And if we accept for a minute that is true, why is it necessarily a bad thing?

 

Think about it. If the few bailing out the many suddenly can't afford it then who does the bailing?

 

The idea of a common market was good. Many initial EU policies were good. The idea of richer countries helping poorer ones improve, excellent. But unfortunately, human nature being what it is, many of those poorer ones saw it as a get rich quick for not doing anything scheme. Corruption, bureaucracy, rule bending and ignoring etc etc. 

 

Those politicians who see ever more closer union and federalism as the goal, won't ever consult the people in their countries. They are more concerned with creating an ideological bureaucratic state rules by the center and controlling everything. That's why a few countries, in which the electorate have elected less compliant politicians are now beginning to oppose the EU dictates.

[AndrewMciver]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

It isn't about fish, it is about OUR WATERS..........????

 

What do you do in these waters? GET THE HELL OUT OF TOWN. We're not talking a coastline that resembles the Maldives, it's a dump. 

 

You have a coastline. You go sunbathe. You may get on a paddle boat and go 100 meters out in the horrendous windy coastline we have.

 

It's always THE PRINCIPLE isn't it. "THAT CRAPPPY POLLUTED SEA IS OURS AND ALL THE NETS AND PLASTIC IN IT BELONG TO US, DOWN WITH HITLER" nonsense they now spout (ironny being when they march they love to do the nazi salute). But oh we will lose Northern Ireland - YA KNOW THAT LITTLE LAND MASS. 

 

Oh you want the fish that make up 0.05% of our economy, and you want to sell it back to the EU, that will ironcially have tariffs placed on them - meaning we will wreck our tiny fishing industry. 

 

Not only that we wreck our economy. But oh we'll have cute little fish.

 

[RayC]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

It isn't about fish, it is about OUR WATERS..........????

If the problem is now something to do with swimming rights in the North Sea, I won't be taking up my allocation so if it helps, the UK government can offer my slots to the EU. Don't say that I'm not willing to sacrifice!

[transam]

1 minute ago, AndrewMciver said:

 

What do you do in these waters? GET THE HELL OUT OF TOWN. 

 

You have a coastline. You go sunbathe. You may get on a paddle boat and go 100 meters out in the horrendous windy coastline we have.

 

It's always THE PRINCIPLE isn't it. THAT WATER IS OUT. But oh we will lose Northern Ireland - YA KNOW THAT LITTLE LAND MASS. 

 

Oh you want the fish that make up 0.05% of our economy, and you want to sell it back to the EU, that will ironcially have tariffs placed on them - meaning we will wreck our tiny fishing industry. 

 

 

Hey, you don't understand, Brexit is NOT about buying a house and letting the previous owners carry on using the shed....It is about our land, waters, laws etc ruled by ourselves.

If you are the type that buckles, that is up to you chap..

[Hi from France]

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

Welcome. Hope that you are also interested in the British Empire and WW2. It crops up a lot here.

Colonies are a nice topic, just listened yesterday to

https://www.franceculture.fr/emissions/entendez-vous-leco/entendez-vous-leco-emission-du-jeudi-24-septembre-2020

 

in short Algeria was both painful and an economic failure.

 

But I'm mainly here to chat on Brexit ! 

[AndrewMciver]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Hey, you don't understand, Brexit is NOT about buying a house and letting the previous owners carry on using the shed....It is about our land, waters, laws etc ruled by ourselves.

If you are the type that buckles, that is up to you chap..

 

But if you are renting that shed out - so you can get some extra money so you can take a few trips to Thailand a year then you go do that. 

 

Otherwise you have an empty shed. Because as soon as we have tarrifs on that fish, we aren't exporting them to the EU anymore.

 

You must really love fish.

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Hi all!

 

Nice active thread/forum : just created an account.

 

I'm an anglophile (did part of my studies in the UK with Erasmus), very interested in Brexit.

 

best

Welcome.  Always good to get a different perspective.

[AndrewMciver]

You have 3 types of people involved in the Brexit debate 

 

1) Those that are hardcore racist and xenophobe. For them Brexit was keeping foreigners out, they had little understanding of anything else. 

 

2) The pretend interlectual folk, who claimed it was for economic reasons but in reality it was because they hated foreigners. 

 

3) Those who love fish. And are prepared to wreck the economy for the love of fish. 

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

What trends?

Have you missed how the UK economy has developed during the last 4 years? Do you think an addon of higher costs for trading will be positive to that misery?

[RayC]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Think about it. If the few bailing out the many suddenly can't afford it then who does the bailing?

 

The idea of a common market was good. Many initial EU policies were good. The idea of richer countries helping poorer ones improve, excellent. But unfortunately, human nature being what it is, many of those poorer ones saw it as a get rich quick for not doing anything scheme. Corruption, bureaucracy, rule bending and ignoring etc etc. 

 

Those politicians who see ever more closer union and federalism as the goal, won't ever consult the people in their countries. They are more concerned with creating an ideological bureaucratic state rules by the center and controlling everything. That's why a few countries, in which the electorate have elected less compliant politicians are now beginning to oppose the EU dictates.

It doesn't have to be as you describe. There are alternatives. 

 

Wrt closer union and federalism in particular: Imo it is undeniable that there are many politicians and bureaucrats within the 'Brussels bubble' who's life ambition is a federal government. However, many EU states have major reservations and imo the likelihood of it happening anytime soon is very small. Of course, things can change quickly.

[transam]

Just now, AndrewMciver said:

 

But if you are renting that shed out - so you can get some extra money so you can take a few trips to Thailand a year then you go do that. 

 

Otherwise you have an empty shed. Because as soon as we have tarrifs on that fish, we aren't exporting them to the EU anymore.

 

You must really love fish.

Yes we could RENT our shed out because it's ours to RENT, well done..........................????

No I don't really like fish, but I do like our land and waters being our land and waters...

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

3) Those who love fish. And are prepared to wreck the economy for the love of fish. 

????????????

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Reality is the name of a distant planet that is inaccessible to you.

No! It´s not. Look below, so you learn:

 

re·al·i·ty

/rēˈalədē/
 

Visa definitioner

1. 1.

   the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.

   "he refuses to face reality"

    

   •  
2. 2.

   the state or quality of having existence or substance.

   "youth, when death has no reality"

[Kadilo]

3 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

You have 3 types of people involved in the Brexit debate 

 

1) Those that are hardcore racist and xenophobe. For them Brexit was keeping foreigners out, they had little understanding of anything else. 

 

2) The pretend interlectual folk, who claimed it was for economic reasons but in reality it was because they hated foreigners. 

 

3) Those who love fish. And are prepared to wreck the economy for the love of fish. 

Mostly 1/2 on here and a few getting battered in 3)

[transam]

2 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

You have 3 types of people involved in the Brexit debate 

 

1) Those that are hardcore racist and xenophobe. For them Brexit was keeping foreigners out, they had little understanding of anything else. 

 

2) The pretend interlectual folk, who claimed it was for economic reasons but in reality it was because they hated foreigners. 

 

3) Those who love fish. And are prepared to wreck the economy for the love of fish. 

4) Those who understand sod all about a countries land and waters rights.... 

[Hi from France]

1 minute ago, AndrewMciver said:

You have 3 types of people involved in the Brexit debate 

 

1) Those that are hardcore racist and xenophobe. For them Brexit was keeping foreigners out, they had little understanding of anything else. 

 

2) The pretend interlectual folk, who claimed it was for economic reasons but in reality it was because they hated foreigners. 

 

3) Those who love fish. And are prepared to wreck the economy for the love of fish. 

so no one reasonable ?

 

I guess you understand the point of view of fishermen from the netherland, france, belgium... who got the message "Ok maybe you and your ancestors worked these waters for centuries, but now just bug off".

 

Fishing is a tiny share of the economy, but it does carry a symbolic weight as well as their jobs and businesses

[Matzzon]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Ridiculous comment.

Come back and say that after 4 more years. 

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not really. You have to read between the lines. The "big cheeses" are each saying the other side must give way, but not themselves of course. Macron wants to bully the UK and Johnson is having none of it and is now saying don't bother coming for more talks...................... unless you change your tune.

 

Barnier and Frost know that they better plan to meet next week as it's possible either of their bosses will give them new instructions.

 

Letting French fishermen plunder the UK waters, having Germany dictate what tax regimes it must implement and how its businesses must be regulated is clearly never gonna be acceptable. Or would France and Germany accept the UK dictating to them? The UK has already offered a fishing deal much the same as Norway has with the EU. Only Macron daren't move from his position. The UK will not bow to EU law. Which interestingly German Courts have ruled recently doesn't overrule Germany law; or have France, the biggest cheats in the EU on state aid, deciding what the UK can and can't do with its businesses.

 

Both sides need to get real or walk away. Johnson has that right at least.

Your post is sensible.

However I seems that also you consider only one of both parties,  as the one completely guilty of all possible misdeed.

The all thing is for me a perfect example of "politics",

where the mere mortal knows only a fraction of what is really happening.

Based on his own conviction, approach of the situation, and other components, he ( the mere mortal) than established his own opinion.

This is fine.

However it isn't, when he consider his opinion as the only correct one.

 

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Matzzon said:

Have you missed how the UK economy has developed during the last 4 years? Do you think an addon of higher costs for trading will be positive to that misery?

Why do you care, what country are you from...?

[AndrewMciver]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

4) Those who understand sod all about a countries land and waters rights.... 

 

You are 2, mixed with a 3. 

 

You clearly have an unhealthy love for fish, but are using it as an excuse to prosper your xenophobia and keeping foreigners out. 

 

[Matzzon]

4 hours ago, transam said:

Well you would say that............????

 

Your last para is just a farang knock, you are good at that, I remember you wanted farangs on a 14 day overstay deported, yet you worry about folk in the UK....????

 

How tall is your horse....?  ????

 

First sentence: Yes, I say that.

 

Second row: Irrelevant to topic

 

Third row: Not have any horse and also irrelevant to topic.

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

He isn't going against his people's wishes.

Oh, so it´s settled then. The majority support a future misery. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, AndrewMciver said:

 

You are 2, mixed with a 3. 

 

You clearly love fish, but are using it as an excuse to prosper your xenophobia and keeping foreigners out. 

 

And you are getting confused, making wild assumptions because others do not see things your way....????

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, AndrewMciver said:

You have 3 types of people involved in the Brexit debate 

 

1) Those that are hardcore racist and xenophobe. For them Brexit was keeping foreigners out, they had little understanding of anything else. 

 

2) The pretend interlectual folk, who claimed it was for economic reasons but in reality it was because they hated foreigners. 

 

3) Those who love fish. And are prepared to wreck the economy for the love of fish. 

Schools out for half term is it?

 

You won't get many marks for effort or content there. Spelling not up to much either. Must try harder.

[Matzzon]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Why do you care, what country are you from...?

Irrelevant question. So, I can not have an opinion about other countries and their leaders as well as I can not have an interest in European economy?

Why do you want to know my country? Planning to visit?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Matzzon said:

Oh, so it´s settled then. The majority support a future misery. 

Trolling again, trying a wind up...? ????

[AndrewMciver]

What always makes me laugh is 'expats' (they don't like being referred to as immigrants) in Thailand are really up for Brexit. Despite the pound have collapsed by 20% since the vote, and potential to collapse another 20-30% after we leave without a trade deal. 

 

They are all on pensions from the UK - yet even making them worst off, they are still prepared to go for it. That's some deep heavy stuff there. 

[AndrewMciver]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

And you are getting confused, making wild assumptions because others do not see things your way....????

 

Is Finding Nemo your favourite movie ? 

[Tofer]

9 hours ago, dimitriv said:

 

This is exactly why it would be better for both sides to have a deal. Now the French fishermen will lose their jobs because they are not allowed to fish in UK waters, and the UK fishermen will lose their jobs because they cannot sell their fish to the EU anymore.

 

This could have been the deal, but it was refused by the UK.

 

 

I think you'll find there are other countries interested in our fish, but no others that will allow EU to rape their fishing grounds.

[transam]

Just now, Matzzon said:

Irrelevant question. So, I can not have an opinion about other countries and their leaders as well as I can not have an interest in European economy?

Why do you want to know my country? Planning to visit?

No visit, for me it is nice to know a nationality, so I can see their perspective, but if you want to hide I understand.

I am English, by the way, I don't need to hide.....????