Popular Post Elkski Posted October 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 Reading a book review from NPR of a book -Bangkok Wakes to Rain found this missionary's words poignant still today "One storyline follows Phineas Stevens, a 19th-century American missionary and doctor assigned to work in Bangkok. He's initially uneasy in Thailand, hoping to be transferred away; he harbors suspicions of the Thai people who he's meant to treat, writing in a letter, "They are a proud, even arrogant people, having yet to come under the domain of a more advanced nation. They seem to regard our own purpose as merely to serve and sustain them in their lifelong pursuit of frivolity."" https://www.npr.org/2019/02/20/695962061/stories-converge-in-a-flooded-bangkok 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ThailandRyan Posted October 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 Sounds so much like the Thailand of today....wow 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishtank Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Yep. Same today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post petermik Posted October 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 It,s indoctrinated into the culture here....beware of farang 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnaBanana Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, petermik said: It,s indoctrinated into the culture here....beware of farang They're not always wrong to think like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paiman Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Many here still suffer from Middle of the Universe Syndrome. That might partially explain the high death toll on the roads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Elkski Posted October 20, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 there is also a chapter on the massacre but not sure I can post it here. I sure always got the "not listen to farang treatment. GF listens to stuff she reads on FB forums before me" hopefully that is changing wince a few of my predictions have come true. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventenio Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 all this stuff doesn't mean too much anymore. 1. money in the 21st century rules it all 2. money, again 3. money 4. maybe power, but probably money 5. i mean, there isn't another option... money in other countries......people value education, health, etc...because they aren't too worried about money as much. money would be #1, but then would go to #3 as they get older. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 That's culture for you. Not all culture is good or worth preserving. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Elkski Posted October 20, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 yes money is important but there is for sure an attitude of not wanting to listen to farang.. take advice from random Thai person on FB before listen to farang BF. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Genmai Posted October 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Elkski said: "One storyline follows Phineas Stevens, a 19th-century American missionary and doctor assigned to work in Bangkok. He's initially uneasy in Thailand, hoping to be transferred away; he harbors suspicions of the Thai people who he's meant to treat, writing in a letter, "They are a proud, even arrogant people, having yet to come under the domain of a more advanced nation. They seem to regard our own purpose as merely to serve and sustain them in their lifelong pursuit of frivolity."" Here's the rest of Phineas's letter from the book: ------------------------------------------------ He hoped Andrew would soon receive the letter he had sent this afternoon, without the reverend’s knowledge, for it also contained a petition to the Society for his immediate transfer to Canton, Rangoon, or wherever else his medical skills could be better applied, with adequate resources and due seriousness of endeavor. In the same letter he also wrote of his recovery from a mild gastrointestinal illness, he believed from overripe mangoes devilishly selected by the cooks, and how Miss Lisle had taken charge of his care during that period, cleaning him, performing tasks that should only be asked of one’s hired aide or kin. She eliminated marauding mosquitoes from his room and read to him from the few English tracts available to them. Such magnanimity yields much its intention, he’d written, and noted how grateful he was to count himself among such kind souls in this alien territory. He continued, "The Siamese as a race thrive in the aquatic realm. They live as if they have been born sea nymphs that only recently joined the race of man. A traveler arriving at the mouth of the Chao Phraya steams upriver along mangrove beaches until the muddiness yields to long patches of coconut groves, alongside of which one may observe fishing villages where frog-limbed men, with spear or woven trap in hand, serenely perch on poles protruding from the water. Farther on lie endless expanses of wetland grass until the land solidifies into forests of flowering trees, fragrant in the breeze, and banana plants of endless variety. The wilderness gives way to towns where women squat at the shore with their washing and canoes as numerous as autumnal waterfowl in the Hudson’s marshes row out, each with its freight of cooped poultry or mounds of fruits ready for the floating markets. And an hour beyond, before one can be lulled to an afternoon slumber, lies the capital, its riverside lined with rickety stilt houses that look incapable of withstanding even the most delicate wake of a modern steamer yet somehow maintain a mysterious integrity. Their occupants drink, swim, wash away their filth, and fill pots to make soupy meals of their catches, everyone joined in the same confluence of fluids. It is my conjecture that the waterborne city inspirits our undoing. Its fluvial systems—the natural ones and also the mesh of canals throughout the capital—carry to us miasmata that weaken the body. Daily, we face our catastrophes, if not by pestilent vapors, then devised by bureaucrats, birthed from faithlessness, selfincurred. I comprehend the Society’s preference for men and women of youth, as ample health and vitality are needed to withstand the corrosion of these climes. I am less concerned for myself than I am for the mission. Since my arrival attendance at service has not increased beyond the dozen or so minority Chinese families converted years prior. Piles of translated tracts and pamphlets lie untouched. Few Siamese pay us heed, unless they are seeking medicine or soliciting us to purchase their goods. The reverend is rightfully proud of what he has managed to achieve at the station under the circumstances, but there are times when I believe him prouder of his bountiful rambutan trees. Miss Crawford and Miss Lisle hold fast to optimism, despite caring for children who prefer craft lessons to the learning of letters and maths. The man Winston, to no surprise, harbors no apparent worries. Whatever blessings of civilization are accorded to the Siamese will, I fear, bear little fruit. They are a proud, even arrogant people, having yet to come under the domain of a more advanced nation. They seem to regard our own purpose as merely to serve and sustain them in their lifelong pursuit of frivolity. If you ask me, they are full of guile as well, having played off the ambitions of the French and the British, whose territories surround them, so as to profit from the impasse and continue to fly their elephant flag. Without significant headway into the interior of the country—there being no concession for missionary efforts similar to the Treaty of Nanking—I fear the reach of the mission will remain severely limited. Despite the outward friendliness of the Siamese, especially when my medical capacities are needed, the opposition to our presence is profound. That the reverend even managed to secure land for the mission and to procure materials for its construction is a minor miracle. Another hindrance lies in the people’s devotion to demon worship. Few have either the capacity or the desire for literacy, and even the Tripitakas and other texts of their own faith are a mystery to the majority of the people. Seeking solace outside of the passivity encouraged by their religion, the Siamese have embraced the worship of charms and objects, whether a tree or a termite mound. My dear Andrew, I hope that I have not encumbered you with my distant despair, a world apart from the comforts of our valley, and that instead my musings shall provide you with some thin trickle of amusement. I hereby include a promised watercolor of frolicking parrots to guarantee a lift in your mood. It’s very rudimentary, I’m afraid, as I’m forced to get along with the means available. The green comes from soaked pandan leaves, the yellows from turmeric. May their pungent odors fade before your receipt of these words. Did I tell you in my previous letter what became of the previous occupant of my room? A hooded cobra trespassed the mosquito screen one night, and when the man woke, the snake was roused as well. Not a waking hour passes in that room without my suspicious glance at crevices between the floorboards. I hold little fear, however, as I consider these present circumstances trials meted by His hand. From my own treatment of patients, I’ve found that body and spirit are often restored by what most consider tribulation, be it piercing to let foul humors or the administration of black calomel to purge disease and restore balance to the constitution. To be touched by Grace, a soul must not fear enduring harm. Yet, I must admit, the knowledge of your prayers does provide me with immeasurable comfort. Will you continue to pray for us here, as I pray for you all? Earthly survival, as transient as it will ultimately prove to be, presents a very desirable prospect. By His grace, may I hope to see each morning light?" ----------------------------------------------------------- There's also a chapter about how he tries to intervene and save a man dying of injuries - only to be treated angrily by the crowd as an annoyance and obstacle in the way of a local witch doctor. 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherwood Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Showed my daughter a map of the solar system today and asked her where Earth was. No idea. she is six years old. "No, we in Thailand", wonderful. Much more home schooling me thinks. Struth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatOngo Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, AnnaBanana said: They're not always wrong to think like that. Luckily, thinking is not one of their better skills! Edited October 20, 2020 by PatOngo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ukrules Posted October 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 It's a fitting beginning for a novel suffused with the possibility of menace — the characters in Bangkok Wakes to Rain endure heartbreak, disease, climate disaster and violence, much of which takes place in or around the building in the first chapter, a condominium tower that used to be a house. It's a complex novel-in-stories, and a very good debut book from a promising new voice in fiction. You're all discussing a fictional book like it's some kind of historical document 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 57 minutes ago, Elkski said: there is also a chapter on the massacre but not sure I can post it here. I sure always got the "not listen to farang treatment. GF listens to stuff she reads on FB forums before me" hopefully that is changing wince a few of my predictions have come true. So a guy with an imaginary friend has an opinion, well impressed. (rofl) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherwood Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Yes, imaginary friends have a lot to answer for as far as humanity goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Flying Saucage Posted October 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) Thailand has been a feudalistic country for centuries, led by a handful of powerful families. And this "elite" of the country has been indoctrinating the people ever since with exactly this xenophobia and with the narrative that Thais are superior human beings. It's part and always has been part of the education of Thais. The reasons why the elite has been cultivating this mindset are quite easy to understand: In this narrative, which became a fundamental part of the Thai culture, it is always the dirty foreigners who pose difficulties to the Thai nation, while the Thais - thanks to their claimed unique purity - are tought to be a superiour race. By this narrative, the centuries old propaganda machinery of the establishment intends to position Thais way above any foreigner in the Sakdina pyramide, in order to make those Thais at the very bottom of Sakdina glad to have someone to look down at, and to appease them in difficult times. It's nice to believe that you belong to the middle in the pecking order, even when in reality you are a slave of the elite, isn't it? This is to stabilize the political system, and it works quite well in this way. Below the Thais at the bottom of Sakdina, in the doctrine of the elite, there comes firstly the Thai street dogs, then the "farangs", the Arabs, the Indians, Chinese, Cambodians, Burmese and Africans, in this order. The colour of the skin plays an important role also. Of course, many Thais today don't follow this mindset anymore, but it is still part of the modern propaganda (see what Pinocchio and the junta tell the people daily!), with the exception that nowadays the propaganda machinery does everything to lift the Chinese over the "farang". But, in all fairness, one should recognise that this part of controlling the populace is not limited to Thailand. It was in a similar way part of European colonialism (supremacy of the white race), the Nazis (supremacy of "das Deutsche Volk"), the Japanese 80 years ago and so on. Also today examples can be found. The difference between Thailand and most other countries is that in Thailand the feudalistic system and it's structures are still there even after 800 years, and without any interruption ever since. Edited October 20, 2020 by Flying Saucage 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr mr Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 proud or pompous ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherwood Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I gave the above post a thanks only because it was an acknowledgement to the fact that Thais have the cunning of a sist house rat. I don't like it but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Elkski said: "They are a proud, even arrogant people, having yet to come under the domain of a more advanced nation. They seem to regard our own purpose as merely to serve and sustain them in their lifelong pursuit of frivolity." Some things dont change , Westerners coming to Thailand and thinking that they should be revered and are superior , expecting Thais to bow down In front of them , because they are much better then they are 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genmai Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 hour ago, ukrules said: You're all discussing a fictional book like it's some kind of historical document From an interview with the author here: https://www.prestigeonline.com/th/pursuits/art-culture/exclusive-interview-pitchaya-sundbanthad/ Quote In the book the character Phineas Stevens says that the Siamese “live as if they have been born sea nymphs that only recently joined the race of man” and they “have neither the capacity nor the desire for literacy”. Do you think Thailand’s literary scene is improving? "Those words reflect the views of 19th century missionaries whose accounts I came across during my research. The truth is that there has long been a writing tradition in Thailand but much of it remains largely unread beyond the Southeast Asia region. I think that’s changing, but making Thai literature more widely read in the world will require stronger organizational support, much like what I’ve seen in Japan and Korea. I think it’s time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 2 is 1 Posted October 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) Everybody should be proud of they own heritage. Most of people don't watch the history even that can teacth us much! Im pround to be Finnish man, not what is now but what have happen in past. How my granfather loose 3 hes brother in ww2, to fight for what have now. Kid's and many other dont think its important, but its most important what have now! Whitout many people's heroism and self sacrifice non of us dont have even free to speak! Edited October 20, 2020 by 2 is 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Genmai Posted October 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: Some things dont change , Westerners coming to Thailand and thinking that they should be revered and are superior , expecting Thais to bow down In front of them , because they are much better then they are I've yet to run into one of these arrogant all-knowing farangs that some posters here claim are running around the country telling "Thais to bow down in front of them". The more likely situation is that the following chain of events is constantly being played out: 1 - Westerners pay a local for a product/service 2 - Observe that it's all done half-assed 3 - Make suggestions based on their own observations/experience of the same thing being done properly in their own country 4 - Locals stubbornly refuse to adopt the suggestions because reasons xyz 5 - Nonsense ensues. The foreigner either gives up and does it themselves or everyone's panties get twisted I long for the day when like you I no longer have to depend on other people to get important things done. Then I can go online and berate others for having a superiority complex. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 1 minute ago, Genmai said: I've yet to run into one of these arrogant all-knowing farangs that some posters here claim are running around the country telling "Thais to bow down in front of them". The more likely situation is that the following chain of events is constantly being played out: 1 - Westerners pay a local for a product/service 2 - Observe that it's all done half-assed 3 - Make suggestions based on their own observations/experience of the same thing being done properly in their own country 4 - Locals stubbornly refuse to adopt the suggestions because reasons xyz 5 - Nonsense ensues. The foreigner either gives up and does it themselves or everyone's panties get twisted I long for the day when like you I no longer have to depend on other people to get important things done. Then I can go online and berate others for having a superiority complex. Yes, its a more relaxed attitude , thats why we come to live here . Like , Westerners coming to live in Thailand and trying to convince them how to live 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC 71 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I try to see the good side of pretty much all Nations if i can. Sure i can see the faults as well, but nobody's perfect eh ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodga Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 8 hours ago, AnnaBanana said: They're not always wrong to think like that. yes but how about the other 99% of the time? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodga Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 5 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: Some things dont change , Westerners coming to Thailand and thinking that they should be revered and are superior , expecting Thais to bow down In front of them , because they are much better then they are Because a Thai education is so damned good they are queueing up like Oxford Uni's to get in here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatOngo Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Thai were proud and center of universe in 19th century Culture and tradition has yet to advance beyond this era! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matzzon Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 8 hours ago, Elkski said: GF listens to stuff she reads on FB forums before me That sounds really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quake Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 6 hours ago, CorpusChristie said: Yes, its a more relaxed attitude that's way past it's sell by date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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