'It'll be carnage': British companies dread a Brexit border breakdown

[7by7]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Do you not realize your 'chuckle brothers' routine has been well and truly rumbled?

("Ficker than us" doesn't work pal  )

 

 

Not the first time you've been completely flummoxed and bamboozled and unable to post an adult response so had to resort to these childish accusations.

 

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

 

The only twisting and denial I can see is in your posts

you posted "Four years ago we were told that Brexit would have no effect on our membership of the single market or customs union. Those who pointed out the absurdity of this assumption were accused of 'Project Fear!'"

 

Clearly that statement you made is incorrect 

When Cameron, Osbourne and Gove stated that a leave vote when mean that the UK will leave the EU and the single market

When did Gove say we would leave the common market.

The problem with your line of argument is that ALL you Brexiteers ignored what Cameron and Osborne etc were saying and just parroted lies and slogans from vote leave.

The people who did listen to Cameron and the remain campaign vote to remain.

But you knew what you were voting for right? 

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

 

The only twisting and denial I can see is in your posts

you posted "Four years ago we were told that Brexit would have no effect on our membership of the single market or customs union. Those who pointed out the absurdity of this assumption were accused of 'Project Fear!'"

 

Clearly that statement you made is incorrect 

When Cameron, Osbourne and Gove stated that a leave vote when mean that the UK will leave the EU and the single market

As I was responding to a quote from a Brexiteer  I thought it was obvious that I was repeating what Vote.Leave and others told us.

 

Was that too subtle for you, or, more likely, are you trying to shift the blame for this mess onto the Remain campaign!

 

Gove? Yes: Michael Gove says leaving EU would mean quitting single market  "Mr Gove, who is also justice secretary, said he wanted the UK to be “outside the single market but have access to it."

 

In other words, not have to follow any of the single market rules, whilst enjoying all of it's benefits!

 

[7by7]

10 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Oh really?

 

Seems like you have selective hearing. Please try again, and do try to pay attention this time, there's a good boy.

 

 

 I seem to have missed this post for some reason; so repeat to you my response to @vinny41:-

 

When did Cameron pull a Boris and switch from Remain to Leave?

 

Hang on; he didn't!

 

During the campaign, and even after the result, warnings such as the above about the dire effects of Brexit were dismissed by Cummings et al as "Project Fear;" and you lot believed him!

 

Now that it's too late Brexiteers are claiming that they knew this would happen all along because of what Remain said in what they were told by Leave to ignore because it was Project Fear!

 

Such twisting and denial by Brexiteers would be hilarious were the effects not so tragic for my country.

 

@vinny41 and @Loiner are desperately trying to twist out of that; no doubt you will do the same.

 

 

[vinny41]

16 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

When did Gove say we would leave the common market.

The problem with your line of argument is that ALL you Brexiteers ignored what Cameron and Osborne etc were saying and just parroted lies and slogans from vote leave.

The people who did listen to Cameron and the remain campaign vote to remain.

But you knew what you were voting for right? 

Most people I know listen to both the remain and leave camps and then made their decision on the ballot paper

and yes I did know what I was voting for thanks

[3NUMBAS]

like the year 2000 collapse on PCS which never happened..any goods can be sourced from elsewhere like auss or NZ

[Loiner]

57 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Populists fail .... and always blame someone else, even though they are the ones in charge.

 

They have this very astonishing ability to attack others and shift the blame, and then make even more false promises.

 

To shift the blame, sometimes, they start wars

 

Immunity and absence of accountability, that's the problem with the populists in power

 

 

There must be some Euro logic in there somewhere, however much it is warped and twisted. From Remainer & EU plotting and scheming to Donald Trump in one jump, must take some wierd association.

 

You are almost there with one point though, but got the wrong responsible party:

Immunity and absence of accountability, that's the problem with the EU Commission not Donald. He is actually elected by the people of his nation, whereas the commissioners are not. Populists, the enemy of the authoritarian elites.

[vinny41]

Things must be quiet in the remain camp as this topic was discussed 14 months ago on this forum

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1117749-no-deal-brexit-will-be-stopped-hammond-says/page/3/#comments

 

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Why I cannot understand the British focus on.... F I S H ,  0.12 % of their GDP...  I would worry about the  make" industry and the financial service...

Which item are the French, Netherlands, Irish and a couple of other countries interested in at the moment Fish or financial services

Which countries are telling the UK they want the same access to UK fishing grounds as when the UK was a member of the EU

When everyone knows you can't have the same access outside the EU club as you had when you were in the EU club

 

[vogie]

The irony of all the desperate dooms day Dons on here is that they love blaming everyone and everthing for something that they, and they alone have created. From the moment that the Brexit result was decided and leave won, there is no doubt that we had to leave, that is what we voted for and that is what democracy is all about. It would have been the greatest disaster if we hadn't have left, the United Kingdom voted for it.

All this moaning is tantamount to mental torture, if a man went and did the same to his wife, he would be locked up. And here is where the irony comes into it, the remainers could have walk away with a one foot in and one foot out kind of a deal, but no, that wasn't good enough for them they wanted to stifle Brexit all together, 'we want a peoples vote' they shouted from the rafters, 'we were lied to' 'most of the people that voted to leave are dead now,' 'you didn't know what you were voting for' and all the remainer slogans, what a disingenuous lot they are. The fact of the matter is they have shot themselves in the foot, the once in a lifetime offer is never going to be repeated, so no sympathy from me. You had your chance and you blew it, you are to blame for the deal whatever we get.

[Surelynot]

31 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Most people I know listen to both the remain and leave camps and then made their decision on the ballot paper

and yes I did know what I was voting for thanks

Most people I know have been reading the Mail and the Express, since the year dot, and had their minds made up for them way before any mention of a referendum......they did not have a clue what they were really voting for.....sad

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Most people I know have been reading the Mail and the Express, since the year dot, and had their minds made up for them way before any mention of a referendum......they did not have a clue what they were really voting for.....sad

The Mail has a circulation of just 2.2 million. And 34 percent of its readers voted Remain. There are millions who don’t read these papers and yet who voted Leave.

Voting ‘leave’ meant leaving the single market - and most voters knew it

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/voting-leave-meant-leaving-the-single-market---and-most-voters-knew-it

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Not the first time you've been completely flummoxed and bamboozled and unable to post an adult response so had to resort to these childish accusations.

"Ficker than us" expired on 13 Dec. Cheerleading your own posts while desperately flogging that dead horse brings nothing whatsoever to the debate which is why you had to be 'outed'.

I enjoy these threads and am up for a bit of banter but prefer to give the 'snakes-and-ladders' approach a wide berth.

HTH

[Chomper Higgot]

32 minutes ago, vogie said:

The irony of all the desperate dooms day Dons on here is that they love blaming everyone and everthing for something that they, and they alone have created. From the moment that the Brexit result was decided and leave won, there is no doubt that we had to leave, that is what we voted for and that is what democracy is all about. It would have been the greatest disaster if we hadn't have left, the United Kingdom voted for it.

All this moaning is tantamount to mental torture, if a man went and did the same to his wife, he would be locked up. And here is where the irony comes into it, the remainers could have walk away with a one foot in and one foot out kind of a deal, but no, that wasn't good enough for them they wanted to stifle Brexit all together, 'we want a peoples vote' they shouted from the rafters, 'we were lied to' 'most of the people that voted to leave are dead now,' 'you didn't know what you were voting for' and all the remainer slogans, what a disingenuous lot they are. The fact of the matter is they have shot themselves in the foot, the once in a lifetime offer is never going to be repeated, so no sympathy from me. You had your chance and you blew it, you are to blame for the deal whatever we get.

From the moment of the Brexit vote the UK has even governed by the Tory Party and specifically Brexit supporting Tories.

 

I suggest that’s where you look to lay any blame for the way Brexit is going.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Most people I know listen to both the remain and leave camps and then made their decision on the ballot paper

and yes I did know what I was voting for thanks

 

So did you believe all the remain campaign's warnings about the dire effects to the UK economy etc. of leaving but still voted leave despite the damage it would do to the UK?

 

Or did you swallow the Project Fear pony from the leave campaign?

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

From the moment of the Brexit vote the UK has even governed by the Tory Party and specifically Brexit supporting Tories.

 

I suggest that’s where you look to lay any blame for the way Brexit is going.

The Tory Party was the only party who had the nadgers to deliver the result of the referendum result, all the other parties that chose to ignore the referendum result were themselves ignored at the 2019 GE. That's the way the cookie crumbles I'm afraid, as the Rolling Stones sang 'You Can't Always Get What you Want' Democracy works in the UK, not every country will get a choice to express their will to leave the EU, although it's only a matter of time I'm sure.

[7by7]

59 minutes ago, Loiner said:

<snip>

You are almost there with one point though, but got the wrong responsible party:

Immunity and absence of accountability, that's the problem with the EU Commission not Donald. He is actually elected by the people of his nation, whereas the commissioners are not.

 

The European commission is the executive branch of the EU; a civil service, bureaucrats if you prefer.

 

Like all such they are appointed by and responsible to the people's representatives. EU commissioners are proposed by the European Council on the basis of suggestions made by the national governments, and then appointed by the European Council after the approval of the European Parliament.

 

Just like all executive branches of any government, including our own civil service, the commission can propose legislation but cannot pass it; only the elected representatives in the Council or Parliament can do that.

 

It could be argued that the president of the commission, currently Ursula von der Leyen, is the most powerful person in the EU. However, whislt their appointment is complicated and based upon results in the European elections, essentially the president is elected and is responsible to the European council and parliament.

 

It could equally be argued that Dominic Cummings is the most powerful person in the UK; yet Parliament had no say in his appointment and he has the only person he is nominally responsible to in his pocket.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Things must be quiet in the remain camp as this topic was discussed 14 months ago on this forum

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1117749-no-deal-brexit-will-be-stopped-hammond-says/page/3/#comments

 

 That topic was about a no deal Brexit; this one is about the chaos that is more than likely to be caused by the government's inability to provide useful guidance on what paperwork and procedures will be required by UK hauliers and exporters to the EU after the end of the transition period; deal or no.

 

Obviously, no deal would only make that chaos worse.

[7by7]

37 minutes ago, evadgib said:

"Ficker than us" expired on 13 Dec. Cheerleading your own posts while desperately flogging that dead horse brings nothing whatsoever to the debate which is why you had to be 'outed'.

I enjoy these threads and am up for a bit of banter but prefer to give the 'snakes-and-ladders' approach a wide berth.

HTH

 

Cheerleading my own posts?

 

Been outed?

 

You are obviously under the delusion that I have more than one identity on this forum. I suggest that you take such baseless suspicions to the Mods who will be quick to put you right.

 

In the meantime, stop reading conspiracy sites such as QAnon; they're not only causing you to post ridiculous prophesies which never come true, they're also making you paranoid.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Cheerleading my own posts?

 

Been outed?

 

You are obviously under the delusion that I have more than one identity on this forum. I suggest that you take such baseless suspicions to the Mods who will be quick to put you right.

 

In the meantime, stop reading conspiracy sites such as QAnon; they're not only causing you to post ridiculous prophesies which never come true, they're also making you paranoid.

Lol; You have mentioned QAnon more often than Basil Fawlty mentioned the war (& you claim I mention it yet cannot produce a single post in support)! ????

[Loiner]

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

Lol; You have mentioned QAnon more often than Basil Fawlty mentioned the war (& you claim I mention it yet cannot produce a single post in support)! ????

Does 49 appear on QAnon somewhere, or is that another part of his own delusions and self importance?

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

We only want to be in self control and trade freely with the whole world.

 

As to "trading freely" did you read the first post of this thread? 

 

Even if the UK (or rather Scotland since English fishing quotas already have been sold out) shares its fishing zones, it's over. 

 

.. "Trading freely" will be done and over in a few weeks : whether directly with the EU or through the 29 FTA the UK had thanks to the EU. 

 

 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, Hi from France said:

Populists fail .... and always blame someone else, even though they are the ones in charge.

 

They have this very astonishing ability to attack others and shift the blame, and then make even more false promises.

 

To shift the blame, sometimes, they start wars

 

Immunity and absence of accountability, that's the problem with the populists in power

 

How are the EU Commissioners, '...they are the ones in charge...', populist? They were not voted in by any of the people in the EU were they, or did you actually receive ballot papers for them? 

Given their stance on Russia, and the probability that one day they will have their own forces to command, I suppose there's a chance they could start wars. They are not even popular with many of the EU citizens, as more now want to Exit too, but govern over them with immunity and absence of accountability in power. 

 

So how do you have a problem with Donald Trump, who is immensely popular among his own citizens and regularly submits to election by the people of his nation? It's happening right now and he will be re-elected next week. A populist who is accountable and stays in power. 

 

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

ven if the UK (or rather Scotland since English fishing quotas already have been sold out) shares its fishing zones, it's over.

So what is Macron's problem then? English fishing quotas sold already. What are the eight coastal fish thieves up in arms about?

[Hi from France]

18 minutes ago, Loiner said:

So what is Macron's problem then? English fishing quotas sold already. What are the eight coastal fish thieves up in arms about?

I'm not sure what Macron's problems are as he is not contributing this thread.

 

I referred to the problem with your professed objective of "trading freely" either with the world or with the (nearly) trillion € in annual trade with the EU. 

 

This  "trading freely" will not happen because the UK messed Brexit negotiations in such a way it has lost access to the European Free Trade Area which it actually.. founded

. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Hi from France

[Loiner]

19 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

We only want to be in self control and trade freely with the whole world.

 

20 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

As to "trading freely" did you read the first post of this thread? 

 

.. "Trading freely" will be done and over in a few weeks : whether directly with the EU or through the 29 FTA the UK had thanks to the EU.

 

Did you miss the part about "...freely with the whole world"? The EU does not trade freely with the whole world because it is a protectionist bloc.

If trading freely between UK and EU is over in a few weeks the EU only has itself to blame. We will still trade regardless of the Remainer rhetoric, but there will be new rules from January. The extent and impact of those depends on the EU now, but we have left already and won't sign up again to the old EU restrictive rules and regulation that apply to its members.

Remainers, Euros and those with vested interest will continue to play up potential or imagined problems about that trade, as we see in the title of this topic. Why have none of them who complain so much come up with some solutions over the past four years? 

 

[johnray]

Aww poor England.  Who will buy your jam now?

[7by7]

39 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Lol; You have mentioned QAnon more often than Basil Fawlty mentioned the war (& you claim I mention it yet cannot produce a single post in support)! ????

 

 

I, and am sure most others, have known for some time that you obtain your 'news' and opinions from conspiracy sites; your regular statements of your mistrust of the MSM and reference to non MSM sites as your sources made that obvious.

 

Whilst, to my knowledge, you have never mentioned them before now, what made me suspect your support for QAnon were your absurd predictions; such as that of an event of Earthshattering importance happening within walking distance of my home, followed by your claim that it had happened together with your utter refusal, despite several requests, to say what that event was! QAnon are notorious for such behaviour. 

 

What clinched it was your using one of English QAnon's symbols as your avatar. The one you use now but with "WWG1WGA" across the centre. Of course, as soon as you were rumbled you removed the incriminating lettering!

[Hi from France]

19 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

 

Did you miss the part about "...freely with the whole world"? The EU does not trade freely with the whole world because it is a protectionist bloc.

Indeed the EU protect the interest of her members, like the US does (the US is more protectionist than the EU) and indeed China does (even more). 

 

Trading freely with the whole world will not happen, even though this is what has been sold to you, and I see you are still a believer. 

 

I'm not sure you understand every trading block protects its interest and this is not going to change but rather protectionism is on a very fast rise. 

 

Another preoccupation is the Brexit is going opposite to the world today: this strategy could have been fine in the 80' 90' or early 2000'

... now since 2008, globalization has slowed, if not reversed, and now it's definitely reversing with Trump and Covid-19. 

 

E. G. if you want to sell your services to the US, you cannot do it without sacrificing your farmers.

We are not talking about a few fishermen who want more fishing quotas there, but about a whole sector with many jobs and families. 

With free trade, they won't be able to compete with the huge Brazilian / US farms, chlorinated chicken, whatever... 

 

Trading deals are "give and take", the problem with the UK alone is that it does not have much to give, or rather at a hefty cost. 

 

 

That's why I think Brexit would have been more clever keeping the European Free Trade Area (and limiting the risk of ending the Union). 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Hi from France

[7by7]

34 minutes ago, Loiner said:

So what is Macron's problem then? English fishing quotas sold already. What are the eight coastal fish thieves up in arms about?

 Because having allowed British fishing fleet owners to sell their quotas to those you call 'foreign thieves,' the UK government now want to take them back.

 

If I sold you the freehold on a house and some years later came and tried to take that house away from you, I suspect it's me you'd be calling a thief, not you!