Thailand's "Ten Year Plan" to improve road safety has failed - instead of halving the death toll it's nearly doubled!

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, brucegoniners said:

Maybe if the police here would enforce the laws there would be less accidents. Namely small children on motorbikes, motorbike riders with no helmets, 4 or 5 people on a motorbike, motorbikes and cars speeding on city streets, people driving without licenses, cars that are dangerous and need to be fixed or get off the roads. I could go on and on. It's the wild west out here in Pattaya. I'm not surprised there are lots of accidents. There needs to be some enforcement. There is absolutely none. So when people can do whatever they want on the roads accidents happen. There are also many dangerous intersections that are blind and many that need working traffic lights. The lights are there, but they are either flashing or turned off.

"Namely small children on motorbikes,"  when do you ever see reports of fatalities among small children?

Too embarrassing for the authorities.

[Artisi]

13 hours ago, Anant72 said:

Hit the pocket book, go after transport company owners who do not care for the conditions of their trucks or buses and let their drivers on the roads for long hours , impound vehicles, stop favoring the “do you know who I am” drivers.  France used to have the worst fatality rates in the 50’s, 60's and 70's. At the end of each weekend, especially long ones, the newscasts would start with the road carnage victims (the numbers were akin to those in Thailand. Now they are down to 4000 and less per year. How did they do it? Read my first sentence.

seeing as how the majority of road deaths (around 80%) is motor bike related, targeting heavy transport / buses will have S  <deleted> A effect. 

[NoshowJones]

19 hours ago, AbeNormal said:

totally agree with everything you said

 

also simple things like overtaking only on the right on all roads will stop lunatics weaving all over the lanes to get past, also slow vehicles stay out of the right hand lane 

 

introduce roundabouts and block all u-turns, they are just too dangerous

 

many simple things would make a huge difference 

 

But, ultimately laws only work if they are properly enforced

 

"introduce roundabouts and block all u-turns, they are just too dangerous". Have you ever seen Thai drivers trying to use a roundabout??

A thing that anyone can do by using common sense which badly lacks with Thai drivers.

[quake]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"Namely small children on motorbikes,"  when do you ever see reports of fatalities among small children?

Too embarrassing for the authorities.

Think its about 14 kids a day.

your so caring Thailand

 

[brianthainess]

11 hours ago, Anant72 said:

Hit the pocket book, go after transport company owners who do not care for the conditions of their trucks or buses and let their drivers on the roads for long hours 

You can't just blame the transport company, IMHO the blame lays squarely on the Transport Ministry for not making Tachographs compulsory in HGV and PTV,  that, was implemented  3 decades+ ago in the real world, many lives could have been saved. easy to start NOW All new HGV vehicles must have them fitted, and give other company's time to fit them on a sliding scale of age. I have seen HGV's brake tested here and NO load is applied to them, steering is also only a cursory glance. 

UK Govt. testing stn

Edited November 4, 2020 by brianthainess

[RocketDog]

22 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Truly awful. The worlds most dangerous roads and it is getting worse. The absolute lack of road law enforcement has to be the number one cause, followed by the ignorance of what those laws are in the first place. Pretty much every road user out there seems to think they always have right of way and that things like traffic lights are a "suggestion."

The factors you named are important, but your last sentence is primary. The first two factors are concerned with forcing people to do the right thing. That's important and necessary. 

 

However, I still maintain that until the THAI PEOPLE decide to stop killing and dying those other factors are just largely futile mitigation. I remain pessimistic of any real change in statistics regardless of government plans. 

[Pedrogaz]

You can't help but laugh. These "leaders" take themselves so seriously. Reducing road deaths in Thailand is not rocket science....a 6 years old in England could tell them the answers but they won't listen, insisting a endless series of "crackdowns" will do the job. The laws exist they need to be enforced.

 

Start by punishing the parents of underage kids driving motorcycles, and not with a 200 baht fine......confiscate the bike and give a 50K fine. Grow from there into proper driving skills tests....

Edited November 4, 2020 by Pedrogaz

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, Pedrogaz said:

You can't help but laugh. These "leaders" take themselves so seriously. Reducing road deaths in Thailand is not rocket science....a 6 years old in England could tell them the answers but they won't listen, insisting a endless series of "crackdowns" will do the job. The laws exist they need to be enforced.

 

Start by punishing the parents of underage kids driving motorcycles, and not with a 200 baht fine......confiscate the bike and give a 50K fine. Grow from there into proper driving skills tests....

At the end of the day there is simply no political will to tackle problems like this......look at the pollution caused by burning. It could be stopped overnight.....but no one will act.

 

Corruption is the only thing that tends to occupy their minds.

[Jimbo2014]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Calculations on a beer mat please....... 

 

The stats and risk faced are actually quite variable and are highly dependent on vehicle type, age, drinking etc....

 

75% of road fatalities are motorcyclists - if you don’t ride a bike your risk stats drop significantly. 

xx ??? of those 75% are motorcyclists without helmets -  if you wear a helmet your risk stats drop significantly. 

xx ??? of those 75% are motorcyclists that are drunk -  if you don’t drink and ride your risk stats drop significantly. 

xx ??? of those 75% are motorcyclists are are night - if you don’t ride at night your risk stats drop significantly. 

 

Many of the 25% >2 wheeled vehicle accidents are due to speeding, occur at night, and involve alcohol. 

If you don’t drive a car (on the open roads out of town) at night, while speeding and drunk your risk stats drop significantly. 

 

 

In aggregate Thailands road stats are damning, yet when we look a little closer our risk profile is significantly reduced simply by modifying our behaviour and applying common sense. 

 

 

 

Unfortunately drunk drivers dont only kill themselves.  Your right about motorbikes.  There are certainly ways to minimize your risk but the numbers are still horrific and these numbers dont include serious injury and destruction of property.  Driving here really is insane.

[Surelynot]

Just now, Jimbo2014 said:

Unfortunately drunk drivers dont only kill themselves.  Your right about motorbikes.  There are certainly ways to minimize your risk but the numbers are still horrific and these numbers dont include serious injury and destruction of property.  Driving here really is insane.

I read some where..... 'deaths' are only counted if dead at the scene...dying later in the ambulance or hospital is not counted........sorry for any anal readers .....no links...no sources....no references.....just my personal recollection.

[Titan1962]

17 hours ago, Artisi said:

Can you imagine the  increased amount of money finding its way into the pockets of the police  charged with reducing the death toll? 

Well that’s another issue that’s entrenched in Thai society according to many reports I read.

[Stupooey]

My own particular bugbear is lights. Most drivers seem to wait until it is pitch black before switching on, and even in torrential rain with visibility down to a few metres about 80% will have no lights. As far as motorbikes are concerned, I reckon about 3 in 10 have non-functioning rear lights, something which should be relatively easy to police.

[Titan1962]

19 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

Teah them defensive driving instead of :how to steer" a vehicle or stay upright

 

What hurts Thai people the most is money.

Take their money or confiscate their transport.

But like I said if you enforce the law to a tee people’s attitudes change. The new law regarding big bikes is a good start but needs to go further. But then again,if you don’t have a license to begin with it doesn’t really matter. Plus if your going to get pulled over and you know your going to get a big fine or worse,a bigger CC or more powerful bike gives you a better chance to flee.Things will never change and I think we all know that,but it does give us something to talk about. 

[Titan1962]

20 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

You have the right idea BUT I think before they can do that they need to upgrade the police force.

 

1.  Pay a wage that is not only minimal but that gives them incentive to want to keep their jobs.

2 Upgrade the requirements to become a police person  (if you pay more you will get better people)

3. Educate them 

4. establish a highway patrol 

5.  Make corruption a criminal offense.  The person that is caught and their supervisor get thrown in jail and automatically are suspended without pay while it is investigated.  Again if a beat cop is making 25,00 a month they are not going to care about a 1000 baht envelope. and if they do they deserve what they get.

 

The problem though is not just a Thai problem talk to people in most southern Asian countries.  I lived in Pakistan and it was just as bad.

 

Great reply and I fully agree 100% on what your proposal.

We all know it happens,but luckily never to me yet as I do have all the correct documentation. 
I don’t know the police officer’s salary,but I can imagine it is not on the high side. Maybe they could start on a quota system,so the more people the actually catch and issue ticket too,will increase their salary,rather than the way it works now. That way it would be a legitimate form of payment,but if caught taking so called tea money and found guilty. Instant dismissal with loss of all benefits.

But they are all good talking points and you never know,maybe someone in the position to implement them might read through some of these comments. As most on here are concerned about the death toll on the roads . The old saying goes,we always did it this way. But sometimes you don’t relize there are better options out there,but don’t know any better.

[Titan1962]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

[Can you imagine the change in attitude if they applied these simple adjustments, yes I know it’s Thailand.]

 

The [Thai’s] were capable of a block cultural shift to wearing facemarks in a matter of a week or so....  so a change in attitude is possible, provide education and enforcement remains a key factor. 

 

As always the failings come from the top. 

 

 

Yes agree 100%.

[Titan1962]

21 hours ago, AbeNormal said:

totally agree with everything you said

 

also simple things like overtaking only on the right on all roads will stop lunatics weaving all over the lanes to get past, also slow vehicles stay out of the right hand lane 

 

introduce roundabouts and block all u-turns, they are just too dangerous

 

many simple things would make a huge difference 

 

But, ultimately laws only work if they are properly enforced

Totally agree on the roundabout situation,they have no concept of how it’s supposed to work. Or what that big white line means as you approach the roundabout. I am not sure whether it’s lack of training or understanding or they just don’t give a rats ass. I think it’s the later as you do need to sit the test to get your license and it is in the rule book. But once they get that throbbing 125cc \ Thai Harley motorcycle between their legs,common sense goes out the window. My journey is more important than yours ,get outta my way.

[spidermike007]

A ten year plan? Has this administration followed up on anything for longer than a month? Proclamations, declarations, crackdowns, and then nothing. Only a void. Zero follow up, on anything. For me, that is the very definition of incompetence, combined with insincerity. A dangerous combination for all. 

 

There is absolutely nothing in the way of a deterrent here, and both the local governments, the central government (weak Little P.) and the police do not take traffic safety seriously. Not even one iota. The safety of the public means less than zero to the small men in charge here. Nothing. They show that on a daily basis.

They will not do a thing. Why? They do not care about the people one iota. Not the common people. Not the average pleb. No way. Never have cared, and may never care in the future. It is all about protecting the elite, the super wealthy, those that are connected, and those in power. The rest of the population? They do not matter. The ex-pat community does not matter. And the police and the absolute joke of a "highway patrol" will not get involved unless an accident has already occurred. There is no prevention. None.

 

The idea of getting the police more involved, is an interesting one, and it would be an effective one. But, the issue is money. They are grossly underpaid, and until the government steps up, and spends the trillion baht on updating the police equipment, and paying each cop a living wage, it is not going to happen. Until then, they will just work the franchise.

 

The only way to survive here on the road, is to be patient, have eyes in the back of your head, drive with caution, and always, and I mean always watch out of the other guy. Chances are, he does not have much driving skill, nor patience, nor reason, nor common sense. You cannot be too careful on the road here. Especially considering that the toy police offer no traffic safety, nor enforcement of the law.

When I was growing up, we took drivers education courses. They showed us horrendous films, of semi trucks plowing into cars, and literally obliterating everything in their path. They also showed us graphic images of head on collisions. 120mph impacts. Even as a young kid, it made quite an impression. It was horrific, and it was hard to get those images out of your head afterwards. But, it left a lasting impression, and when I started driving, I understood it was serious business, and that it was a very dangerous thing to do. Also, my Mom gave me alot of tips, advice and driving lessons. She was very kind and patient with me. She was always stressing courtesy and respect for other drivers. My guess, is most Thais do not benefit from the same kind of experience and teaching skills?

 

I see people driving here, with their entire families in the car, and doing things, and taking the kinds of risks no rational or sane person with common sense would do. What for? To gain one minute? Why take those risks? What is the logic? We are talking about your wife, your kids and yourself. A terrible accident would utterly devastate or eliminate your entire family!

 

Often, when I am cruising along at 100kph, someone cuts right in front of me. Or someone comes out from the side road, right in front of me. I have to slam on my brakes, or change lanes to avoid him. I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me. So, if he had waited two seconds, he would have had completely safe passage onto the highway. What gives? Where is the intelligence, caution, and prudence? Where is the common sense? What about just the survival instinct? Where is that? 

[KhunKenAP]

Terrible and tragic. Doubt it will ever change.

 

But good news is policeman's personal undeclared income has increased.

[RJRS1301]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

A ten year plan? Has this administration followed up on anything for longer than a month? Proclamations, declarations, crackdowns, and then nothing. Only a void. Zero follow up, on anything. For me, that is the very definition of incompetence, combined with insincerity. A dangerous combination for all. 

Well no point in having a "Plan or Strategy" unless firstly you have clearly defined and achievable goals, with the manner to achieve each  goal defined in the plan..

Those goals then need to be monitored and the strategies evaluated at 6 monthly intervals and those evaluations inform any necessary changes to achieving the outcomes, and monitor progress towards the goals.

Yearly reports and evaluations by independent auditors and evaluators, to the parliament and the ministers responsible be held accountable along with the senior public servants who are driving the plan.

 

  

[Jimbo2014]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

I read some where..... 'deaths' are only counted if dead at the scene...dying later in the ambulance or hospital is not counted........sorry for any anal readers .....no links...no sources....no references.....just my personal recollection.

Wow - I would be suprised if thats the case but I wouldnt rule it out. TIT!

[Jack Hammer]

Install speed cameras, cameras at pedestrian crossings and traffic lights.  If the offenders do not pay their fines, cancel their licences and registration.. It would create revenue for the Government, less accidents, less fatalities and employment for Thai people.   Installation and cost of the cameras are very reasonable. Don't let the guy that purchased the hand held radar guns buy any of the equipment...   Cheers Bill

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, Bill Good said:

Install speed cameras, cameras at pedestrian crossings and traffic lights.  If the offenders do not pay their fines, cancel their licences and registration.. It would create revenue for the Government, less accidents, less fatalities and employment for Thai people.   Installation and cost of the cameras are very reasonable. Don't let the guy that purchased the hand held radar guns buy any of the equipment...   Cheers Bill

All true, but do you really believe taking away the licence and cancelling the registration will stop them driving? I don't.

You can tell them a mile away but you can't tell them anything close up.

[paulbj2]

On 11/3/2020 at 5:15 AM, darksidedog said:

Truly awful. The worlds most dangerous roads and it is getting worse. The absolute lack of road law enforcement has to be the number one cause, followed by the ignorance of what those laws are in the first place. Pretty much every road user out there seems to think they always have right of way and that things like traffic lights are a "suggestion."

Yes, I was threatened with murder by a Thai driver once (according to locals who heard what he shouted at me) - my offence walking across a traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing whilst the lights for him were red and for me were green. He was deeply offended when I shouted "Whoa!" when he accelerated down a tiny gap next to the kerb and got within millimetres of slamming into me. He pulled up just beyond the crossing and was ranting and raving; practically frothing at the mouth. I think he might have needed a rabies vaccine! I believe that was an example of that little known traffic law "Red means go even if there is a damned Farang in the way, it doesn't matter"!

 

Another place I used to cross a busy main road was a dual carriageway with a centre island. U-turns from one side of the carriageway to the other were clearly prohibited by a "No U-Turns" sign but dozens of scooters, mopeds and motorbikes used to do U-Turns even when there was a policeman on duty controlling the lights in the rush hour.  A motorbike doing just such a U-Turn nearly flattened me at that junction; he didn't see me as he was tapping out a text on his handlebar mounted smartphone whilst doing his U-turn! 

[Keesters]

On 11/3/2020 at 12:18 PM, Henryford said:

Road safety is just a joke here:-

 

1. No helmets

2. No tax/insurance

3. No licences (or bought licences)

4. Underage riding

5. No Proper tests

6. No road safety training

7. NO ENFORCEMENT

 

Hard to think the approach to road safety by the Government could be any worse or inept.

 

 

Add to include cars, trucks, buses etc.

 

Failure to use seat belts. 

No child seats.

Underage driving.

Overloaded.

Passengers in pickup flatbed. 

Etc, etc, etc

 

The list is huge

 

 

[paulbj2]

3 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

Wow - I would be suprised if thats the case but I wouldnt rule it out. TIT!

Yes, I too have been told that that is exactly the case! As most road deaths in Thailand would be caused by head injuries to drivers/passengers on two wheeled vehicles and head injuries are frequently fatal only several hours after the collision (so after a good long brain bleed), that would mean that you could probably safely double the declared road death statistics to get a true picture of the appalling carnage on Thailand's roads. 

[Jimbo2014]

57 minutes ago, paulbj2 said:

Yes, I too have been told that that is exactly the case! As most road deaths in Thailand would be caused by head injuries to drivers/passengers on two wheeled vehicles and head injuries are frequently fatal only several hours after the collision (so after a good long brain bleed), that would mean that you could probably safely double the declared road death statistics to get a true picture of the appalling carnage on Thailand's roads. 

Its rare to take a trip of an hour or two and not see several fatal accidents.  I spent time in several African countries where driving was equally reckless but the roads and vehicles were not as good so driving was generally slower.  Here its common to see someone going 120+ cutting 3 lanes in a poorly weighted pickup with no head-check.  If you did that in Australia you would be banned for life.    

[Artisi]

8 hours ago, Titan1962 said:

Well that’s another issue that’s entrenched in Thai society according to many reports I read.

No need to read reports, it's common knowledge........ 

[Artisi]

9 hours ago, Surelynot said:

At the end of the day there is simply no political will to tackle problems like this......look at the pollution caused by burning. It could be stopped overnight.....but no one will act.

 

Corruption is the only thing that tends to occupy their minds.

Corruption and the next bowl of rice. 

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

A ten year plan? Has this administration followed up on anything for longer than a month? Proclamations, declarations, crackdowns, and then nothing. Only a void. Zero follow up, on anything. For me, that is the very definition of incompetence, combined with insincerity. A dangerous combination for all. 

 

There is absolutely nothing in the way of a deterrent here, and both the local governments, the central government (weak Little P.) and the police do not take traffic safety seriously. Not even one iota. The safety of the public means less than zero to the small men in charge here. Nothing. They show that on a daily basis.

They will not do a thing. Why? They do not care about the people one iota. Not the common people. Not the average pleb. No way. Never have cared, and may never care in the future. It is all about protecting the elite, the super wealthy, those that are connected, and those in power. The rest of the population? They do not matter. The ex-pat community does not matter. And the police and the absolute joke of a "highway patrol" will not get involved unless an accident has already occurred. There is no prevention. None.

 

The idea of getting the police more involved, is an interesting one, and it would be an effective one. But, the issue is money. They are grossly underpaid, and until the government steps up, and spends the trillion baht on updating the police equipment, and paying each cop a living wage, it is not going to happen. Until then, they will just work the franchise.

 

The only way to survive here on the road, is to be patient, have eyes in the back of your head, drive with caution, and always, and I mean always watch out of the other guy. Chances are, he does not have much driving skill, nor patience, nor reason, nor common sense. You cannot be too careful on the road here. Especially considering that the toy police offer no traffic safety, nor enforcement of the law.

When I was growing up, we took drivers education courses. They showed us horrendous films, of semi trucks plowing into cars, and literally obliterating everything in their path. They also showed us graphic images of head on collisions. 120mph impacts. Even as a young kid, it made quite an impression. It was horrific, and it was hard to get those images out of your head afterwards. But, it left a lasting impression, and when I started driving, I understood it was serious business, and that it was a very dangerous thing to do. Also, my Mom gave me alot of tips, advice and driving lessons. She was very kind and patient with me. She was always stressing courtesy and respect for other drivers. My guess, is most Thais do not benefit from the same kind of experience and teaching skills?

 

I see people driving here, with their entire families in the car, and doing things, and taking the kinds of risks no rational or sane person with common sense would do. What for? To gain one minute? Why take those risks? What is the logic? We are talking about your wife, your kids and yourself. A terrible accident would utterly devastate or eliminate your entire family!

 

Often, when I am cruising along at 100kph, someone cuts right in front of me. Or someone comes out from the side road, right in front of me. I have to slam on my brakes, or change lanes to avoid him. I look in my rearview mirror, and there is nobody behind me. So, if he had waited two seconds, he would have had completely safe passage onto the highway. What gives? Where is the intelligence, caution, and prudence? Where is the common sense? What about just the survival instinct? Where is that? 

Well summed up, unfortunately to the Thai's it is just another meaningless farang rant.. ????

[Rubble]

"The ten years from 2011 to 2020 was billed as a decade to end the carnage". Yes but in 2014 Prayut pressed the reset button and included it in his 20 year plan 2014 to 2034. Which included stopping corruption, solving Bangkok's traffic problems and making everyone happy. Give him a break! Early days yet. He can't build HS train systems, new futuristic airports, new shipping ports, EEC and SEC industrial zones and new shipping canals and at the same time be messing around with road safety....a killer far greater than Covid. Fair go.