Advice on marriage and prenuptial agreements

[Longbow212]

Hi All,

 

I live in Bangkok. My Thai girlfriend and I are talking about marriage. My understanding is that the ceremony and paperwork are two separate processes here, this is actually a good thing for us under the current covid situation as it means we can get married on paper for the benefits it brings and have the official ceremony later when family are able to visit. If someone could give me a quick overview of the documents and procedures to get this done it would be appreciated. 

 

We are in a similar footing financially at the moment and agree that whatever personal assets we currently own should remain our own, and those that we commit to marriage assets should be split equally. One issue that may arise is that her family are very wealthy and she may receive money as inheritance or as a gift from her parents. We agree that in principle if we separate we would always want the other person to be looked after but that taking an arbitrary 50% of each others personal assets would be unfair. We are talking about a prenuptial agreement that possibly states that there would be a limit on splitting of personal assets, something like a maximum of 10-20 million Baht to the person with less money so that they may be looked after. Also, I was informed that debts here can be inherited by children? and that a prenuptial may protect me from any debts that may occur from her parents if business fail etc.  If anyone has any experience with prenuptial or this area I would greatly appreciate advice and suggestions.

 

Thanks

 

[OneMoreFarang]

37 minutes ago, Longbow212 said:

10-20 million Baht

For that kind of money better get a good lawyer.

[daviddunham]

5 hours ago, Longbow212 said:

I live in Bangkok. My Thai girlfriend a...

 

 

Same question (intent here). Coming to thailand on Tourist Visa. I was gonna ask the same.

Additionally...

- Where can one get paper-married (farang + thai)?

- What are the divorce procedures?

- How (if at all) is the farang-country / farang-embassy involved?

- Is farang-country notified about marriage? (I have heard some farangs tried to double-marry in the past)

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Longbow212 said:

We agree that in principle if we separate

If you are already considering that, don't do it. Odds of any marriage lasting are very poor, IMO, and going in with an expectation of failure isn't a good way to start.

Just don't do it.

Edited November 9, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, daviddunham said:

 

Same question (intent here). Coming to thailand on Tourist Visa. I was gonna ask the same.

Additionally...

- Where can one get paper-married (farang + thai)?

- What are the divorce procedures?

- How (if at all) is the farang-country / farang-embassy involved?

- Is farang-country notified about marriage? (I have heard some farangs tried to double-marry in the past)

If a Thai woman why would you get married on a tourist visa? If a farang woman get married at home, and have a celebration in LOS. The paper work and subsequent messing around just isn't worth it, IMO.

 

BTW, if it's a Thai woman just have a village wedding- no paperwork, no legality, no need to get divorced, home country not notified.

[4MyEgo]

13 hours ago, Longbow212 said:

My Thai girlfriend and I are talking about marriage.

I like the way you are both planning your future as opposed to going into a marriage/partnership blind then suffering the consequences.

 

Advice in short, find a good lawyer here, one who specialises in the area of marriages, back home I employed the services of a family law specialist and a prenuptial was executed, here though, it's different as I don't believe they have prenuptials, but from what I have heard assets here are a 50/50, but like I said, you need professional advice, but also do your own research as I have also heard lawyers here are a bit iffy, so if you can both agree on a lawyer, all and good, worth their weight in gold if the marriage ever fails, and best of luck, 14 years going strong and growing stronger by the year, many have fallen by the wayside and many have lost, so protecting ones assets comes before getting married. 

[Pravda]

 

 

13 hours ago, Longbow212 said:

Hi All,

 

I live in Bangkok. My Thai girlfriend and I are talking about marriage. My understanding is that the ceremony and paperwork are two separate processes here, this is actually a good thing for us under the current covid situation as it means we can get married on paper for the benefits it brings and have the official ceremony later when family are able to visit. If someone could give me a quick overview of the documents and procedures to get this done it would be appreciated. 

 

We are in a similar footing financially at the moment and agree that whatever personal assets we currently own should remain our own, and those that we commit to marriage assets should be split equally. One issue that may arise is that her family are very wealthy and she may receive money as inheritance or as a gift from her parents. We agree that in principle if we separate we would always want the other person to be looked after but that taking an arbitrary 50% of each others personal assets would be unfair. We are talking about a prenuptial agreement that possibly states that there would be a limit on splitting of personal assets, something like a maximum of 10-20 million Baht to the person with less money so that they may be looked after. Also, I was informed that debts here can be inherited by children? and that a prenuptial may protect me from any debts that may occur from her parents if business fail etc.  If anyone has any experience with prenuptial or this area I would greatly appreciate advice and suggestions.

 

Thanks

 

 

Pre marriage trying to be realistic and fair talk. None of that will have any effect in the future especially the taking care of each other when we split part. 

 

 

 

 

[MadMuhammad]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If a Thai woman why would you get married on a tourist visa? If a farang woman get married at home, and have a celebration in LOS. The paper work and subsequent messing around just isn't worth it, IMO.

 

BTW, if it's a Thai woman just have a village wedding- no paperwork, no legality, no need to get divorced, home country not notified.

why does everyone think it has to be a ‘village wedding’ involved. Not everyone married girls born outside of Bangkok 

[MadMuhammad]

15 hours ago, Longbow212 said:

Hi All,

 

I live in Bangkok. My Thai girlfriend and I are talking about marriage. My understanding is that the ceremony and paperwork are two separate processes here, this is actually a good thing for us under the current covid situation as it means we can get married on paper for the benefits it brings and have the official ceremony later when family are able to visit. If someone could give me a quick overview of the documents and procedures to get this done it would be appreciated. 

 

We are in a similar footing financially at the moment and agree that whatever personal assets we currently own should remain our own, and those that we commit to marriage assets should be split equally. One issue that may arise is that her family are very wealthy and she may receive money as inheritance or as a gift from her parents. We agree that in principle if we separate we would always want the other person to be looked after but that taking an arbitrary 50% of each others personal assets would be unfair. We are talking about a prenuptial agreement that possibly states that there would be a limit on splitting of personal assets, something like a maximum of 10-20 million Baht to the person with less money so that they may be looked after. Also, I was informed that debts here can be inherited by children? and that a prenuptial may protect me from any debts that may occur from her parents if business fail etc.  If anyone has any experience with prenuptial or this area I would greatly appreciate advice and suggestions.

 

Thanks

 

When I married in February I went to the Australian embassy and applied for and received a CNI, Certificate of No Impediment to marry. I then went up the street A little and had it translated into Thai, took about an hour. 
I then had that document notarised at Khlong Toey notary office (over night service) 

 

I returned to Pattaya the next day and me and my girlfriend attended the Banglamung Town hall. We arrived early and were first in line. We had a brief interview to ensure our relationship was genuine, signed done paperwork and walked out at 11:30am as a married couple. 
 

Like you we married without friends and ceremony to ensure my long stay was secured, especially as covid had just popped its head up, and we will plan a later for  the line. I’m actually yet to meet her parents or any of her family and they’re only a short trip up the highway in samut prakan. I’m sure we’ll get to that eventually lol

 

I considered a pre-nup but I believe Thai law states what you have before marriage is yours and anything obtained after us 50/50. I chose a great girl who is my intellectual equal and she doesn’t have a bad bone in her body so I’m very comfortable with my decision. My car is in her name and I also just bought us (her) a house. I’ll get back to you if it ever blows up 

 

note: great that you’re asking questions and planning ahead, many don’t 

[munchlet]

Not sure about the validity of pre nups in Thailand, but most big divorce cases here end up with the bread winner keeping most of the assets. The biggest mistake any foreigner can make is to vest assets in the name of the spouse to get around foreign ownership laws. I have been living here more than 30 years and never did it. Used Thai companies to own land etc. Best thing I ever did. My daughters' Thai family can't get hold a damned thing, if she could have, she would have snorted it, my brother in law would have stolen it, and my daughters would have ended up with nothing. As it is, they are both hugely well qualified in their own right, but, even though I still meet the bills of my ex month to month despite not living with her for 15 years (and having effective custody of my daughters), I am glad that, in the event of a personal disaster, we all still have something to fall back on.

 

So unless your wife is a whizz kid financier or suchlike, my advice is do a pre nup if legally possible but ALWAYS, keep your assets in your own name through a Thai Company which may cost you 25K a year to administer. Also, bear in mind that if you have been married to a Thai and paid tax, social security and have a work permit for 3 years, you can apply for a Thai passport which means you don't need the Thai company anymore, but the pre-nup in this situation would still be useful......

[4MyEgo]

2 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

When I married in February I went to the Australian embassy and applied for and received a CNI, Certificate of No Impediment to marry. I then went up the street A little and had it translated into Thai, took about an hour. 
I then had that document notarised at Khlong Toey notary office (over night service) 

 

I returned to Pattaya the next day and me and my girlfriend attended the Banglamung Town hall. We arrived early and were first in line. We had a brief interview to ensure our relationship was genuine, signed done paperwork and walked out at 11:30am as a married couple. 
 

Like you we married without friends and ceremony to ensure my long stay was secured, especially as covid had just popped its head up, and we will plan a later for  the line. I’m actually yet to meet her parents or any of her family and they’re only a short trip up the highway in samut prakan. I’m sure we’ll get to that eventually lol

 

I considered a pre-nup but I believe Thai law states what you have before marriage is yours and anything obtained after us 50/50. I chose a great girl who is my intellectual equal and she doesn’t have a bad bone in her body so I’m very comfortable with my decision. My car is in her name and I also just bought us (her) a house. I’ll get back to you if it ever blows up 

 

note: great that you’re asking questions and planning ahead, many don’t 

Congrats mate, well done.

 

I'm sure your Mrs is up there with mine, that said, if you ever decide to get married back in Oz for whatever reasons, please consider a prenuptial, wouldn't be too hard as you have already contributed to her having a fall back position if the marriage fails, i.e. the house, the car, just keep the paper trail.

 

Love and finding someone on your level is the best, seldom found in one's lifetime, fortunate for those that manage it, must be the Oz sense of humor with these girls, that said, like life, accidents do happen,  as you know coming off a bike, or even cars colliding, accidents (as I call them) do also happen in marriages, and if you don't have insurance, (prenuptial agreement) back in your home country, then your not covered and the payout can be enormous, however if you don't have any plans of her obtaining permanent residency or even citizenship in Australia down the track, then you don't need the insurance.

 

Note: I don't think it will ever blow up, but hey, what's that old saying, sh-t happens, so always be the wiser and prepare for the unexpected.

[MadMuhammad]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

Congrats mate, well done.

 

I'm sure your Mrs is up there with mine, that said, if you ever decide to get married back in Oz for whatever reasons, please consider a prenuptial, wouldn't be too hard as you have already contributed to her having a fall back position if the marriage fails, i.e. the house, the car, just keep the paper trail.

 

Love and finding someone on your level is the best, seldom found in one's lifetime, fortunate for those that manage it, must be the Oz sense of humor with these girls, that said, like life, accidents do happen,  as you know coming off a bike, or even cars colliding, accidents (as I call them) do also happen in marriages, and if you don't have insurance, (prenuptial agreement) back in your home country, then your not covered and the payout can be enormous, however if you don't have any plans of her obtaining permanent residency or even citizenship in Australia down the track, then you don't need the insurance.

 

Note: I don't think it will ever blow up, but hey, what's that old saying, sh-t happens, so always be the wiser and prepare for the unexpected.

Thank you mate. She really is a unique character and absolutely worth the investment, emotionally and financially. 

She has been back to meet my fam but at this stage we have no intention to ever relocate temporarily or permanently, but I do take your advice on board. All my assets are tied up in a family trust structure but you can never be too sure. 

 

Being as reasonable and grounded as she his we have talked extensively about what would happen should things ever go sour and we have a very solid understanding of what path will (hopefully) be taken. I financed 40% of our property as not to tie up too much of my funds in preparation for the markets to inevitably rebound and on completion of the finance in 3 years I plan to obtain an usufruct to ensure I have future stability no matter what happens.
My marriage is solid but, as you mentioned <deleted> most certainly does happen and usually at the most unexpected or worst times. 
In the end she is level headed and a realist, as am I. That’s puts us far ahead of many relationships here or back hone I feel. 
 

Thanks for your comments as always 

[Grumpy one]

13 hours ago, daviddunham said:

 

Same question (intent here). Coming to thailand on Tourist Visa. I was gonna ask the same.

Additionally...

- Where can one get paper-married (farang + thai)?

- What are the divorce procedures?

- How (if at all) is the farang-country / farang-embassy involved?

- Is farang-country notified about marriage? (I have heard some farangs tried to double-marry in the past)

I love the way some people ask about divorce and marriage at the same time

If unsure about the future, just live together

[4MyEgo]

15 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Thank you mate. She really is a unique character and absolutely worth the investment, emotionally and financially. 

 

Kudos

 

15 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

She has been back to meet my fam but at this stage we have no intention to ever relocate temporarily or permanently, but I do take your advice on board. All my assets are tied up in a family trust structure but you can never be too sure. 

 

Just remember as long as there is no intention to relocate your assets are safe, regardless of how good of a partner she is, I say that with respect and as I would say the same for my wife, it's not the partner that has to be trusted, it's the law that it stacked against us, and even when you agree on the terms, if outside influence gets into their heads, the guy is gone, e.g. I know of a guy back in Oz, his wife and my wife are friends (Thai), I told him to get a prenuptial before he got married, being the tight a$$ he is he got the same solicitor to do the prenuptial, in other words it's not worth the paper it's written on and when they first split she agreed to a 50/50 split as they originally agreed on, not bad considering they have two kids together, however he decided to be a pri-k and hold one of the kids as opposed to sharing them equally, stubborn in nature, including stupid in nature, now she is going the family trust and for a stake in the parents house as she looked after them for over a decade, the parents passed months apart just before the marriage ended, so he is <deleted>-ked in my opinion as the Family Law Act has wide ranging powers for the presiding judges.

 

15 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Being as reasonable and grounded as she his we have talked extensively about what would happen should things ever go sour and we have a very solid understanding of what path will (hopefully) be taken. 

 

Always good to have a plan, but when it's in writing and legal, it's as solid as a judge says it is, without it being in writing and legal, it's only words unfortunately.

 

15 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

I financed 40% of our property as not to tie up too much of my funds in preparation for the markets to inevitably rebound and on completion of the finance in 3 years I plan to obtain an usufruct to ensure I have future stability no matter what happens.

 

Nice and well thought out.

 

16 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

My marriage is solid but, as you mentioned <deleted> most certainly does happen and usually at the most unexpected or worst times. 
In the end she is level headed and a realist, as am I. That’s puts us far ahead of many relationships here or back hone I feel. 

 

Good and agree, same same here, but without a prenuptial back home with my Mrs being an (Australian Citizen), she could have inflicted a lot of financial damage. So I am covered there and it makes me sleep better, i.e. I am in control, and I will continue to love her as she will me until she turns, if ever, once bitten twice shy as the saying goes, but the last one agreed to a 50/50 split until she turned, one day after the courts sealed the orders, she wanted 70%, how lucky was I, that extra 20% would have cost me an extra $250k back in 1999, yep, no prenuptial back then, but you live and learn and in all fairness she worked and earned so was entitled to the 50% even though I made 4 times what she made and it was my investment strategies that provided her with a house paid off when she left the marriage after 12 years, she wouldn't have been able to do that on her measly income, but that is in the past, our daughter will end up with it anyway ????  

 

16 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

Thanks for your comments as always 

 

Always a pleasure and vice a versa.

[EvetsKram]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you are already considering that, don't do it. Odds of any marriage lasting are very poor, IMO, and going in with an expectation of failure isn't a good way to start.

Just don't do it.

Too true,  my darling wife wants to end our marriage for 10000 baht from an old Swiss dude because I am out of money for a few more years.  She will have to kill me to get me out

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, MadMuhammad said:

why does everyone think it has to be a ‘village wedding’ involved. Not everyone married girls born outside of Bangkok 

My advice is no village wedding, no marriage.

[bodga]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you are already considering that, don't do it. Odds of any marriage lasting are very poor, IMO, and going in with an expectation of failure isn't a good way to start.

Just don't do it.

I  only married my Wife for the sex, it  beat the sheep....marginally!

[khunPer]

20 hours ago, Longbow212 said:

We are in a similar footing financially at the moment and agree that whatever personal assets we currently own should remain our own, and those that we commit to marriage assets should be split equally. One issue that may arise is that her family are very wealthy and she may receive money as inheritance or as a gift from her parents.

Prenuptial is always wise, especially for clear specifications.

 

However, according to Thai law, any assets owned before marriage are separate property, and any assets acquired during marriage are common property that should be divided 50/50 upon a divorce. However inheritance is separate property – I'm not sure if gifts are included, but gifted land is – however if a Thai woman is married to a foreign man, and the marriage is registered in Thailand, she will losse some legal rights and privileges regarding to land ownership. The husband might in some situations need to sign that land is separate property, even if bought during marriage.

 

I would advise you to have a prenuptial with clearly specification made by a lawyer, it makes everything more easy to prove, should something go wrong. Furthermore, I would also when writing about separate assets include:  "...and whatever might replace it".

 

When making a prenuptial you should also make last wills at the same time, and for the foreigner considers two – one for assets in Thailand, following Thai laws, and another for eventual assets remaining in your home country, following your home country's laws – as if no last will a husband is after Thai law only eligible to 50 percent of the wife' assets, whilst the other 50 percent goes to children, if any; or parents if no children; and so on to siblings.

????

[Guderian]

21 hours ago, Longbow212 said:

something like a maximum of 10-20 million Baht

 

It's fine for some people, I'd be lucky to get 10 to 20 Baht from my GF, lol!

[BTB1977]

I call Bullsh/t . Trol post.