Focus on fish and economic fair play as EU-UK trade talks go on remotely

[7by7]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

<snip>

Hilarious. Why don't they give every country an U vote to leave then

It is not up to the EU to give a member state a vote on whether to leave or not.

 

The decision to leave the EU followed by triggering Article 50 is a matter for the each individual member state and them alone.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

They are negotiating the issue, that's why they are still back at talks again now after Boris sent Barnier home a few weeks ago. The EU idea of negotiation is for the UK to capitulate on these issues and accept the EU demands. Well that's not happening. 

 

When and where have the EU negotiators said that the UK should "capitulate on these issues and accept the EU demands?"

 

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

Why does the EU not concede that the UK is no longer a member and does not have to give in to the EU demands. That would be fair.

Why don't you accept the fact that we are no longer a member and so cannot have all the benefits of membership which we used to enjoy?

[Phulublub]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Time to walk away Boris. You can't negotiate with an organization that makes completely unrealistic demands and then refuses to compromise on any of them.

 

A mutually beneficial FTA would have been nice, but that would have required both sides around the table to act in good faith and only the UK has done so.

Time to walk away Boris Michel. You can't negotiate with an organization that makes completely unrealistic demands and then refuses to compromise on any of them.

 

A mutually beneficial FTA would have been nice, but that would have required both sides around the table to act in good faith and only the UK has done so.

[7by7]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

Fair would be to accept that different nations make and apply their own rules and legislation in their own lands.

Something which every EU member can and does do; something which we could and did do while we were a member.

 

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

It is unfair for the EU to demand that another sovereign nation should accept EU rules and governance in the other nation.

Where is the EU demanding that?

 

Yes, the EU want a level playing field and a means for resolving disputes. That is standard practice in all international trade agreements and we would be fools not to agree to such.

 

Unless you'd like EU firms to be heavily subsidised by their governments so they could unfairly undercut British firms in the UK market! Is that what you want?

 

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

We left the EU and will not be part of your one market anymore, therefore are free to not accept any rules from the EU. That's fair.

True, but if we want the trade agreement with them which we need then we have to negotiate and agree the rules, conditions and dispute resolution mechanism which will govern that agreement.

 

Just as every country does when agreeing a trade agreement with another. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

A mutually beneficial FTA would have been nice, but that would have required both sides around the table to act in good faith and only the UK has done so.

 In what way has the EU not acted in good faith?

 

Threatening to renege on the WA perhaps? Oh, hang on; that's Boris!

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

There's a lot that you don't get, but never mind.
A trade deal might be better all round, but not at any price. No Deal is still better than the bad deal the EU would like us to take. While ever the EU sends Barnier back they are hoping that the UK will give in to their demands. Well that's still not happening is it?
The high and mighty EU and their Remainer worshippers have still not woken up to that and their cards are only a pair of ducks. 

When in doubt throw in the odd personal insult ????.  You really don't need to stoop that low you know.

 

Anyway you make a lot of assumptions based on zip.  "While ever the EU sends Barnier back they are hoping that the UK will give in to their demands. Well that's still not happening is it?"

 

You have no idea what the EU are "hoping".  The fact that the UK, after threatening ad nauseum to just walk away with no deal, are still sitting at the table, illustrates that they are actually, extremely keen to keep negotiating.  The EU continue to hold their ground while Boris and the boys run around huffing and puffing.

 

Let's just see where we end up shall we.   

[voulez vous]

Could we (in England) get cheaper fish and chips?

[7by7]

15 minutes ago, voulez vous said:

Could we (in England) get cheaper fish and chips?

 

If no deal is reached it is more likely that the fish we like most, cod and haddock, will be more expensive in the UK!

 

This Q&A from UK Fisheries should be compulsory reading for anyone who wishes to comment on fishing quotas.

[evadgib]

New guidance published to support commercial fishers, merchants and exporters from 1 January 2021

Quote

The Marine Management Organisation (MMO) is supporting businesses to prepare from 1 January 2021

 

[evadgib]

Flagship Fisheries Bill becomes law

Quote

The Fisheries Bill receives Royal Assent after 10 months in Parliament

 

[Bruntoid]

The U.K. motor industry tonight warned it would take a 55 BILLION pound hit over next 5 years if forced to resort to WTO rules.  Result !!!
 

Looking forward to our Brexit economists explaining that one away .......????

[Loiner]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:28 AM, snoop1130 said:

 

British newspaper The Sun reported at the weekend that the negotiators were looking at a review clause that would allow a renegotiation of any new fishing arrangement from 2021 in several years’ time.

 

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-11-23

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Of course they will give in its utterly guaranteed! They just don’t have to give in yet and are playing to the Sun readers gallery. Some just can’t see it. 
 

Today the BofE governor firing shots across Bojo’s bows - hang on he’s bias right ? What would he know with an army of financial analysts behind him ...

 

5 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Is everyone that disagrees with the calamitous Brexit bias ? 
 

Just for clarity can you give us an anti-brexit publication/spokesperson/economist that isn’t bias please ? Or could it just be they have the intellectual clout to work out the sums ? 
 

Because right now you appear to be ranking The Sun above the world renowned Reuters ????

 

I wish I was as confident as you that the EU are utterly guaranteed to give in. If they don't, no problem - we end the transition on No Deal which is better than a bad deal.

 

Just another BoE governor's scaremongering is worth as little as the last one's, in fact as little as any Remainer's soothsaying. Yup, as biased and your army of financial analists. That must be where they pull their ideas from.Their combined intellectual clout is worth as much as a clout with a wet fish. All predictions from their gloomy crystal globes of doom.

 

Reuters have long been world renowned as biased and anti-brexit. Haven't you ever noticed that? Hey your Reuters were not even making up their own reports in the OP, so they had to resort to The Sun for some real news. See above.

[candide]

1 hour ago, Bruntoid said:

The U.K. motor industry tonight warned it would take a 55 BILLION pound hit over next 5 years if forced to resort to WTO rules.  Result !!!
 

Looking forward to our Brexit economists explaining that one away .......????

Pro-Brexit economists are ultra-liberal economists. They will probably explain that there are: too much tax, too much regulation protecting workers, too high wages, too much social services, etc... and that all will solved after Brexit as a truly liberal economic regime will be implemented in UK.

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by candide

[Hi from France]

3 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

The U.K. motor industry tonight warned it would take a 55 BILLION pound hit over next 5 years if forced to resort to WTO rules.  Result !!!
 

Looking forward to our Brexit economists explaining that one away .......????

While this thread is obsessing about fish, (with English fishing licenses already sold anyway) there are mounting rumors Nissan will close Sunderland

(and this is from the Torygraph, a brexiter newspaper) 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/11/24/nissan-dismisses-sunderland-plant-closure-rumours/

Quote

6,000 staff and tens of thousands more in the supply chain

 

In other words there are bigger fish to fry ????

... 

 

And EU money is getting back to the EU

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN28421B

Quote

Brussels has said that EU investors should use a platform inside the bloc to trade shares denominated in euros, thereby splitting markets and forcing major players like Goldman to have a foot in both camps.

 

Three pan-European share trading platforms in London - CBOE, London Stock Exchange’s Turquoise, and Aquis Exchange - have already obtained regulatory approvals for EU hubs.

 

Turquoise has said that without the EU agreeing to full two-way market access by Nov. 30, it will start up its new Dutch hub.

 

Also on Tuesday, British real estate investment trust Segro listed its shares in Paris as UK companies look to move assets and operations over to mainland Europe as Brexit looms.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, candide said:

Pro-Brexit economists are ultra-liberal economists. They will probably explain that there are: too much tax, too much regulation protecting workers, too high wages, too much social services, etc... and that all will solved after Brexit as a truly liberal economic regime will be implemented in UK.

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com

 

This is precisely what Brexit about.

 

 

[vogie]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This is precisely what Brexit about.

 

 

But even the man that every liberal lefty likes to model themselves on Jeremy Corbyn has said that the EU is damaging workers rights, surely you believe him Chomper?

[Chomper Higgot]

22 minutes ago, vogie said:

But even the man that every liberal lefty likes to model themselves on Jeremy Corbyn has said that the EU is damaging workers rights, surely you believe him Chomper?

No I don’t ‘believe’ him.

 

And I certainly did not sign up to back everything any individual of your choosing happens to have said.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No I don’t ‘believe’ him.

 

And I certainly did not sign up to back everything any individual of your choosing happens to have said.

Selective socialism.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Selective socialism.

Erm... whatever.

[Laughing Gravy]

5 hours ago, Hi from France said:

While this thread is obsessing about fish

It might have something to do with the title.

Focus on fish and economic fair play as EU-UK trade talks go on remotely

[Laughing Gravy]

Here is another correlation.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/five-former-pms-oppose-move-to-cut-foreign-aid-grgblkq2t

 

5 clowns who support Brexit (supporting their own interest) and also supports that the UK sends ridiculous amounts of money overseas, often to countries who don't need it.

 

Can you see a pattern!

[Bruntoid]

10 hours ago, Loiner said:

 

 

 

I wish I was as confident as you that the EU are utterly guaranteed to give in. If they don't, no problem - we end the transition on No Deal which is better than a bad deal.

 

Just another BoE governor's scaremongering is worth as little as the last one's, in fact as little as any Remainer's soothsaying. Yup, as biased and your army of financial analists. That must be where they pull their ideas from.Their combined intellectual clout is worth as much as a clout with a wet fish. All predictions from their gloomy crystal globes of doom.

 

Reuters have long been world renowned as biased and anti-brexit. Haven't you ever noticed that? Hey your Reuters were not even making up their own reports in the OP, so they had to resort to The Sun for some real news. See above.

Right so according to you the hauliers haven’t a clue about their own industry, the bankers haven’t a clue about their own industry, the financial journalists haven’t a clue about their own industry, and 99.9% of the worlds economists haven’t got a clue about their own industry but ........

 

Loiner from Thai Visa Forum who takes his guidance from The Sun, has got it sussed ? 

 

Tee Hee ! 

[Loiner]

4 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Right so according to you the hauliers haven’t a clue about their own industry, the bankers haven’t a clue about their own industry, the financial journalists haven’t a clue about their own industry, and 99.9% of the worlds economists haven’t got a clue about their own industry but ........

 

Loiner from Thai Visa Forum who takes his guidance from The Sun, has got it sussed ? 

 

Tee Hee ! 

Can't see any haulier quotes in your posts, but you could have invented some anti-brexit trucking tales I missed. Anybody in the financial industry is not to be believed in anything they say about Brexit. They knew nothing about the Financial Crisis of 2007 or the Tom Yum Gung Crisis of 1997, so generally are just full of their own BS and love a disaster forecast. Pity they can never get them right.
If you prefer to take your anti-brexit propaganda and dose of doom & gloom from a paper other than the Sun, feel free to do so. It won't stop Brexit though.

[OneMoreFarang]

One day in the future historians will wonder why the tiny fishing industry paid such a huge role in this.

If i.e. two African countries would not make a deal because they argue about 0.1% of their industry everybody would call them stupid and incompetent. In the UK they call it "taking back control". Amazing.

[OneMoreFarang]

On 11/23/2020 at 11:12 PM, Loiner said:

There's no economic fair play in the EU’s position on any of those issues.

Next thing you will argue they should obey international laws.

Or is that ok because the UK wants to ignore it and not the EU?

[7by7]

21 hours ago, evadgib said:

New guidance published to support commercial fishers, merchants and exporters from 1 January 2021

 

 

Interesting read; especially the complicated steps UK fishers will in future have to go through in order to continue exporting to or landing their catch in the EU.

 

Of course, tariffs, if any, have still to be determined.

 

19 hours ago, evadgib said:

Flagship Fisheries Bill becomes law

 

Not unexpected; inevitable, really, as since Brexit our waters are no longer part of the EU's EEZ.

 

It mainly incorporates the CFP into UK law so it covers what is now the independent UK EEZ. With, as it says, going further than the CFP on some matters.

 

Interesting note in the Further Information

Quote

Foreign boats will be required a licence to fish in UK waters and will have to follow the UK’s rules

 

No mention of whether or not the licences sold to foreign fleet owners by UK feet owners in the 1980s and so already held by foreign boats will count for this.

 

No mention of whether or not UK licence owners will this time be prevented from selling their licences to foreign fleet owners.

 

Nor any mention of what will happen, if anything, to the many  Dutch, Spanish, or Icelandic-owned “flagships”, so called because they sail under a British flag.

[evadgib]

Updated by HMG today

New guidance published to support commercial fishers, merchants and exporters from 1 January 2021

Quote

The Marine Management Organisation (MMO) is supporting businesses to prepare from 1 January 2021

 

[7by7]

29 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Updated by HMG today

New guidance published to support commercial fishers, merchants and exporters from 1 January 2021

 

 

The third up date to guidance first issued on the 21st October!

 

Not even HMG knows what's going to happen at 00:01 on 1/1/21; so how can the rest of us stand a chance?

[placeholder]

On 11/25/2020 at 7:42 AM, vogie said:

But even the man that every liberal lefty likes to model themselves on Jeremy Corbyn has said that the EU is damaging workers rights, surely you believe him Chomper?

Actually not. While he opposes free movement of people, he actually supports the EU's stand on workers' rights.

"Asked by Andrew Marr if he had sympathy with Eurosceptics - having voted against previous EU treaties such as Maastricht - Corbyn clarified his stance on the EU. He was against a “deregulated free market across Europe”, he said, but supported the “social” aspects of the EU, such as workers’ rights."

Jeremy Corbyn: “wholesale” EU immigration has destroyed conditions for British workers (newstatesman.com)