Q about monthly income method

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

Then be clever and put the eqivalent of Bht 850k/Bht 450k into the FCD

Tie up even more money?  If you qualify on basis of income that is what is best in my opinion.  If you have millions to toss around the Elite Card might be a valid option but bank deposits should be available for use (and until recently that was the official immigration mantra for having them - it was designed to be used for your stay).

[KannikaP]

1 minute ago, lopburi3 said:

Tie up even more money?  If you qualify on basis of income that is what is best in my opinion.  If you have millions to toss around the Elite Card might be a valid option but bank deposits should be available for use (and until recently that was the official immigration mantra for having them - it was designed to be used for your stay).

No. I was replying to someone who mentioned that if he had THB 800k in an Foreign Currency Deposit account, suggesting how he might get around the fluctuationg exchange rate. Certainly not advocating tying up more dosh if it can be helped.

[KannikaP]

20 hours ago, khunPer said:

You should be able to choose "Foreign Transfer for retirement" (or something like that) in the TransferWise-system from a roll down menu, when you transfer funds to Thailand, then it will show up with the correct abbreviation "FTT" in your bankbook and bank statements. It does that perfectly for me, and I'm also using TranferWise to exchange my money, as experience has shown me that I end up with the highest net amount in Thailand using that method.

 

To my knowledge Immigration might care about "foreign transfer" when using the monthly salary-method for retirement instead of a deposit, and also that the average monthly amount over 12 months shall be not less than 65k baht

...????

Unless you say you are using the combo method, and as long as your transfers plus some in a Thai bank add up to over 800k you are good to go.

If using Transferwise, why not put 65 THB in the amount to transfer and they, T-Wise, will do the required calculation.

[Tanoshi]

27 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

But the point I was striving to make is that Brits, Americans & Aussies using the 800k/400k method who were the victims of bank fraud would somehow need to anticipate such a fraud arising 12 months in advance of it occurring, so as to put in place the monthly transfers needed to make good any shortfall under the "combo" method in lieu of Embassy income confirmations. For this purpose they would presumably have needed to invest in a suitably-reliable crystal ball - and I am not aware of any such crystal balls being available through Lazada, for instance!

 

Alternatively, they could, of course, hijack Dr Who's Tardis in order to travel back in time by the required 12 months!!

 

I'm not sure Immigration would accept an Embassy Income letter + funds deposited in a Thai bank using the 'combo' method, I was under the impression an Embassy Income letter must provide evidence of a minimum income of the equivalent of 65K per month.

I stand to be enlightened if anyone has successfully used an Embassy Income letter as part of applying under the 'combo' method.

 

Bank fraud is rare and having a crystal ball would make one's life choices so much easier.

Never fortunate enough to pick the winning Lotto numbers, but picked a gem of a wife. 

As protection against fraud, I keep my funds in a Fixed deposit account, no debit card, so couldn't be accused of being negligent with a card or PIN.

I also have text notification enabled for my standard 'Savings' account, so any unwarranted withdrawal would be brought to my immediate attention. I also only transfer a maximum of two months living expenses to that account, partly due to current exchange rates, but also to minimise the risk of fraud.

 

I was once the victim of fraud, but my UK bank account, not the banks fault, but a story I won't elaborate on in the forum. If only I'd had a crystal ball then, I could have saved a fortune. 

 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I stand to be enlightened if anyone has successfully used an Embassy Income letter as part of applying under the 'combo' method.

Many people have done that. Immigration just multiplied the amount on the letter by 12 added that to the amount in the bank and it was approved if it was 800k baht or more,

[Tanoshi]

29 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

That's a very scary story for anybody making use of the Embassy-issued income letter!

But of course it is the odd exception instead of the rule because normally embassy-issued income letters are accepted 'no other questions asked'.

Agree it's not the norm to question Embassy Income letters, or request additional proof of income, but they are within their rights to request such. After all it was the discovery of false claims of income on affidavits and statutory declarations, that led to the negotiations and subsequent withdrawal of the Embassy Income letters service for US, British and Australians.

 

39 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

It's also strange that they told him to reapply based on marriage because most IOs resent the associated paperwork with a marriage extension and they could have easily provided him the retirement extension on the spot.

When you discovery how Immigration apply logic and common sense Peter, be sure to advise the forum. 

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Many people have done that. Immigration just multiplied the amount on the letter by 12 added that to the amount in the bank and it was approved if it was 800k baht or more,

Thanks for the info.

I'm not personally aware of anyone using the Embassy Income letter as part of the 'combo' method, but good to know it is, or has been accepted.

[foreverlomsak]

On 12/15/2020 at 3:34 PM, KannikaP said:

I do a combination of Bht 50k per month (spendable) with Bht 200k in the bank = Thb 800k annually. It is accepted at my Immigration, no problem.

Do you mind if I ask which IO you are with?

Phetchabun appear to have difficulties if it not 800k+ in 1 account.

[john terry1001]

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

That's a very scary story for anybody making use of the Embassy-issued income letter!

But of course it is the odd exception instead of the rule because normally embassy-issued income letters are accepted 'no other questions asked'.

 

'the odd exception' isn't very helpful if, like the Norwegian, you happen to be the the one that is questioned by the IO about your financial information. 

 

2 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

It's also strange that they told him to reapply based on marriage because most IOs resent the associated paperwork with a marriage extension and they could have easily provided him the retirement extension on the spot.

 

Perhaps he was just lucky that he came up against an honest IO.

 

When I did my marriage extension earlier this year, using the monthly income method, all my income documents were accurate and up to date, with each transfer averaging at least 70k. However, the IO suggested that, for an extra payment of 15k, I could be given a 'retirement' extension (plus a multi re-entry permit) and they would complete all required documentation and issue the extension straight away instead of me having to wait for the 30 day 'under consideration' requirement. I just suggested what they were offering wasn't 'technically' legal.

 So, while thanking them for for their offer, I declined, pointing out that I have had an extension for fifteen years and. like my current application, each one one was 100% legal, so didn't want to start using an 'illegal' method now, when I didn't need to. 

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, john terry1001 said:

...

'the odd exception' isn't very helpful if, like the Norwegian, you happen to be the the one that is questioned by the IO about your financial information.

...

True, but in normal times without border-restrictions, it would be quite annoying but not such a big deal.  Doing a border-hop and applying from scratch on your Visa Exempt entry would solve the matter.

 

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

all my income documents were accurate and up to date, with each transfer averaging at least 70k

Suspect you mean 'technically'  the extra money as multi re-entry should only cost 3,800 baht.  If you are over age 50 and meet retirement criteria there is no reason not to use it if you want.

Edited December 17, 2020 by lopburi3

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

...

When I did my marriage extension earlier this year, using the monthly income method, all my income documents were accurate and up to date, with each transfer averaging at least 70k. However, the IO suggested that, for an extra payment of 15k, I could be given a 'retirement' extension (plus a multi re-entry permit) and they would complete all required documentation and issue the extension straight away instead of me having to wait for the 30 day 'under consideration' requirement. I just suggested what they were offering wasn't 'technically' legal.

 So, while thanking them for for their offer, I declined, pointing out that I have had an extension for fifteen years and. like my current application, each one one was 100% legal, so didn't want to start using an 'illegal' method now, when I didn't need to. 

When you applied for your marriage extension with all documents accurate and up-to-date and having transferred at least 70K every month in the preceding 12 (or 13) months, you already did meet all the 'required documentation' for a retirement extension.

So you could have applied there on the spot for the retirement extension.

The IO offering his 'help' with that for 15K was simply scamming you, but being a seasoned retiree you were of course aware of that.  And declining the nice offer with a smile and thanking him shows that you have blended-in well and adopted the Thai way of Doing Business. ????  

[john terry1001]

51 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

True, but in normal times without border-restrictions, it would be quite annoying but not such a big deal.  Doing a border-hop and applying from scratch on your Visa Exempt entry would solve the matter.

 

And do you really think those 'normal times' are going to return in the 'near' future? I nothing else, Covid 19 has caused Immigration options have started to tighten up. It's started by insisting people needing the correct 'O' visa. Just going to immigration to convert a 'tourist type visa' was stopped during lockdown. In my opinion,  simply 'doing a border-hop and applying from scratch on your Visa Exempt entry' will not be straight forward in the future.

Just as an example, in recent times immigration have updated the rules to restrict border hops, by restricting land entry visas to (I think) two per year This was primarily to stop continual monthly 30 day exempt entries, but it worked.

Similarly, some people wanting to stay (semi) permanently have chosen to repeatedly go to HCMC and Savanakhet to get a 'new' non O visa. By simply restricting the number of these visa entries each year would restrict people continually staying without applying for the correct visa extension in order to stay. And immigration have already done that when tweaking the lockdown rules. 

 

Of course, for those of us who do things legally, according to the rules, plus, for those who can legally obtain an extension, it would have no effect whatsoever.

 

So, with the option of immigration tightening the system up, do you really think those 'normal times' are going to return in the 'near' future?

Edited December 17, 2020 by john terry1001

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, john terry1001 said:

...

So  do you really think those 'normal times' are going to return in the 'near' future?

Enforcing 15-days quarantine on anyone crossing the border is not sustainable, so sooner or later those restrictions have to be softened.

It probably won't be a full return to previous 'normal' and immigration might make use of the situation to weed out what they consider incorrect use of Visa or Exempt-entries. 

But I do think that if somebody would be in the situation like the Norwegian man having his 1-year extension denied because ON TOP of his embassy-issued income letter he could not show that he transferred more than 800K from abroad during the previous 12 months, that it would be possible in a couple of months to do a 'border-run' allowing him to return VisaExempt or on a Tourist Visa and starting from scratch again. 

[UWEB]

Will start to use monthly Transfers for my next Extension by using an Income Letter from my Embassy, but Jomtien requires evidence related to said Income (e.g.Letter from Company/Organization). Can anybbody tell me what is sufficient for Immigration as I'm just transfering money from my savings in Germany.

[john terry1001]

54 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Enforcing 15-days quarantine on anyone crossing the border is not sustainable, so sooner or later those restrictions have to be softened.

It probably won't be a full return to previous 'normal' and immigration might make use of the situation to weed out what they consider incorrect use of Visa or Exempt-entries.

I wasn't suggesting a 15 day quarantine to stop people crossing the border, rather preventing people from using repeated visa exempt, etc, options for entering Thailand and suggesting that, in a similar way that repeated 30 day land border runs were limited to two per year, repeated visa/tourist/exempt entries could be rejected/limited (to maybe two per year) with an extension required to reset the clock before doing a land another border application.

 

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

But I do think that if somebody would be in the situation like the Norwegian man having his 1-year extension denied because ON TOP of his embassy-issued income letter he could not show that he transferred more than 800K from abroad during the previous 12 months, that it would be possible in a couple of months to do a 'border-run' allowing him to return Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa and starting from scratch again. 

  If you read the Norwegian's story he simply didn't qualify under the current rules, even by totalling up his total year's transfers.  The IO was bending the rules with even suggesting a marriage extension option. He hadn't read to rules that were actually in place.

 

If the system is (possibly) going to be tightened up, the lesson is to understand what is actually required to apply for an extension. We can't expect immigration to tighten everything up then relax certain parts because we don't abide by what they require.

 

 

[john terry1001]

22 minutes ago, UWEB said:

Will start to use monthly Transfers for my next Extension by using an Income Letter from my Embassy, but Jomtien requires evidence related to said Income (e.g.Letter from Company/Organization). Can anybbody tell me what is sufficient for Immigration as I'm just transfering money from my savings in Germany.

Personally, I receive an annual statement from my pensions to confirm my income for that current year and supply them. I also supply my UK bank statements to show those payments have been received by me.

[rocky123]

I will be applying for my 15th retirement visa in a few months. I have always gone to my Irish embassy and received a proof of income letter, ( about 2,000 gbp each month ) then produced the letter to Immigration at Jomtiem. I have never had to show Immigration transfer of any funds, just proof the money has gone into my UK bank. Is this still ok or has it changed. ?. . Thanks

[UWEB]

20 hours ago, john terry1001 said:

Personally, I receive an annual statement from my pensions to confirm my income for that current year and supply them. I also supply my UK bank statements to show those payments have been received by me.

For now I have no Pension, just my savings in Germany.

[UWEB]

18 hours ago, rocky123 said:

I will be applying for my 15th retirement visa in a few months. I have always gone to my Irish embassy and received a proof of income letter, ( about 2,000 gbp each month ) then produced the letter to Immigration at Jomtiem. I have never had to show Immigration transfer of any funds, just proof the money has gone into my UK bank. Is this still ok or has it changed. ?. . Thanks

You must be lucky, you have to transfer at least 65.000 THB each month into a Thaibank Account to get the extension. Attached a Requirement Sheet I've got from Jomtien Immigration 3 days ago.

Jomtien Immigration Requirements 15.12.2018122020.pdf

[fishtank]

18 hours ago, rocky123 said:

I will be applying for my 15th retirement visa in a few months. I have always gone to my Irish embassy and received a proof of income letter, ( about 2,000 gbp each month ) then produced the letter to Immigration at Jomtiem. I have never had to show Immigration transfer of any funds, just proof the money has gone into my UK bank. Is this still ok or has it changed. ?. . Thanks

Not all Embassies will issue that letter. You are lucky.

You actually have an Embassy that does their job.

Edited December 18, 2020 by fishtank

[fishtank]

Just now, UWEB said:

You must be lucky, you have to transfer at least 65.000 THB each month into a Thaibank Account to get the extension. Attached a Requirement Sheet I've got from Jomtien Immigration 3 days ago.

Jomtien Immigration Requirements 15.12.2018122020.pdf 551.51 kB · 0 downloads

No he does not as he has the Embassy letter.

[Tanoshi]

22 hours ago, UWEB said:

Will start to use monthly Transfers for my next Extension by using an Income Letter from my Embassy, but Jomtien requires evidence related to said Income (e.g.Letter from Company/Organization). Can anybbody tell me what is sufficient for Immigration as I'm just transfering money from my savings in Germany.

 

The regulations state income must be from a Pension, Interest or Dividends (not Savings).

Certain Immigration offices will only accept proof of income from Pensions.

You'll have to ask Jomtien if they'll accept income from Savings (foreign bank statements).

 

If you have the required Savings to deposit the equivalent of 800K THB in a Thai bank account, the source of this deposit is never requested.

 

138-2557 (2019 )Supp Ev Income Eng.pdf

Edited December 18, 2020 by Tanoshi

[Peter Denis]

23 hours ago, UWEB said:

Will start to use monthly Transfers for my next Extension by using an Income Letter from my Embassy, but Jomtien requires evidence related to said Income (e.g.Letter from Company/Organization). Can anybbody tell me what is sufficient for Immigration as I'm just transfering money from my savings in Germany.

 

@Tanoshi responded > The regulations state income must be from a Pension, Interest or Dividends (not Savings).

Certain Immigration offices will only accept proof of income from Pensions.

You'll have to ask Jomtien if they'll accept income from Savings (foreign bank statements).

If you have the required Savings to deposit the equivalent of 800K THB in a Thai bank account, the source of this deposit is never requested.

 

= = = = =

Tanoshi's response is fully correct.

Some additional comments:

1 - If your German Embassy/Consulate is willing to provide you with the Embassy-issued income-letter (they will want to see evidence of regular monthly income), you might use that income-letter when applying for your upcoming 1-year extension of stay.  At most IOs that income-letter is accepted as proof of meeting the financial requirements with 'no further questions asked'.
However, the local Imm officer might also ask you to provide evidence of the SOURCE of that foreign income and some IOs only accept a pension statement (e.g. at Jomtien).  Earlier in this thread Tanoshi also mentioned the case of a Norwegian applicant that applied with an embassy-issued income letter (his monthly foreign income being over +65K monthly and confirmed by Embassy), but his application was not accepted because the Imm officer also asked for proof of his living expenses and the officer wanted to see that +800K had been transferred during the past year for those living expenses.

2 - When switching from method to prove that you met the financial requirements for your upcoming 1-year extension of stay application, you have to be aware that the Imm Officer processing your application will check whether you fully met the requirements during the 12 (or 13) months preceding your application.  Switching mid-way from 'Funds-in-Bank' method to 'Monthly Income Transfer' method (or vice versa) might have you end up in between 2 chairs meeting neither of them and resulting in your application being refused.  So for sake of assurance, it is recommended that you did meet the requirements for the full 12 (or 13) months using the method you started your current extension with, and that you start in parallel during the last 2 months before your new application with the new method you are going to apply for the new 1-year application.

[rocky123]

On 12/18/2020 at 12:03 PM, UWEB said:

You must be lucky, you have to transfer at least 65.000 THB each month into a Thaibank Account to get the extension. Attached a Requirement Sheet I've got from Jomtien Immigration 3 days ago.

Jomtien Immigration Requirements 15.12.2018122020.pdf 551.51 kB · 5 downloads

Option 2 states Embassy letter with proof of 65,000 income. Does not say the income must be deposited in a Thai bank account. Thing is people are telling me it must be paid into a Thai bank monthly. ?

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, rocky123 said:

Option 2 states Embassy letter with proof of 65,000 income.

That is just stating the minimum income is 65k baht.

9 minutes ago, rocky123 said:

Thing is people are telling me it must be paid into a Thai bank monthly. ?

Maybe they cannot get proof from their embassy.