16 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Progress on Brexit but coming days will be critical

I think the term "critical" is overstated in relation with Brexit. "boring, like the rest of the year" is more suitable. Let's try it:

Progress on Brexit but coming days will be boring, like the rest of the year.

Yup.

5 hours ago, tebee said:

But what is the center with Brexit ?

 

Hum. I did reply to you, talking about how non-extremist (centrist) views were important for uniting a post-Brexit Britain, but it seems that my opinions were too controversial ...

Well I have already mentioned my views on Brexit

Coming out with a deal is my preferred option 

Stable pound  jobs ect

No deal loss of jobs  depreciating pound not good for us retired expats here

Boris is not stupid he knows the facts that's why He is still talking and not walking the walk ( yet)

6 hours ago, Hi from France said:

I think a deal does make a lot of difference  : tariffs barriers are unsustainable. e.g. for the supply chains of the auto industry 10% is simply unmanageable

 

now even with a deal that will suppress quotas and tariffs there will be a mountain of bureaucracy: 400 millions extra customs checks a year that will hurt and isolate the british islands

 

 

right now Swindon has closed and could not restart at all in case of no-deal, Jaguar has closed on an off (right now it's off), the Japanese at Sunderland are very very nervous

(source)

 

 

another problem with the deal that will be signed (97%-ready)

• The UK had an overall trade deficit of -£79 billion with the EU in 2019. A surplus of £18 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of -£97 billion on trade in goods.

source House of Commons Library

 

you get my point:

• in the area where the UK has a trade deficit, goods, there will be not quotas or tariffs; Guess who will benefit
• in the area where the UK has a trade surplus, services this is a no-deal. Granted, services are more complicated than goods, but in this area, the UK has been unable to ask/get anything at all. e.g. in finance the EU can revoke the equivalence of UK banks with a 30-days notice. 

 

 

 

 

another little-discussed problem is that is Brexit will create a more bureaucratic state

 

 

In the event of no deal and the UK EU trade on WTO terms all vehicles in both directions will be subject to 10% tariffs

the  largest single item where the UK has a trade deficit is on vehicles so I assume you mean that the UK will benefit

19 hours ago, Loiner said:

So no change there then, but the EU still like to tell the press and their faithful that they think they have nearly won.

 

Meanwhile Boris was telling his backbencher MPs a different story. "Never fear folks we will vindicate the people in full or else as I have said many times we will start the new year on WTO terms!"

Bojo is addicted to Armageddon.

3 hours ago, shackleton said:

Well I have already mentioned my views on Brexit

Coming out with a deal is my preferred option 

Stable pound  jobs ect

Having a deal is - 4% instead of - 8%, it is not a catastrophe

 

Best description is a slow puncture 

 

Quote

He says Brexit will be felt deal or no deal but warns that “those who think a deal is going to miraculously resolve the situation” are wrong.

 

Quote

“It’s a slow puncture of the economy is how I describe it, because people will have made their contingency plans to lose bits of their production; to move parts of their research and development over to other places where it’s easier to do it from.

 

Quote

“You don’t suddenly just take all of your operations and shift them to the Netherlands or France, you move bits of it or you might also plan that the next generation of products you’ve developed might be for a European factory as opposed to a UK factory. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/14/brexit-will-hit-uk-economy-like-a-slow-puncture

Don't weaken now Boris, we voted out, get us all the way out.  I'm getting seriously <deleted> off at their proprietorial attitude to OUR fishing waters.

 

Anything other than a clean break and Boris's political career is over.

22 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

Anything other than a clean break 

Please explain how can you do a "clean break" with all the countries next to you with whom your economy is integrated? 

 

The UK is not North Korea

 

Our economies are completely integrated in the single market, which the UK has allegedly been the main promoter. 

 

 

There's no clean break, it's just a populist slogan.

 

The difference now is between a dirty break or a very dirty break. 

 

And there's a lot of UK - EU acrimony.

 

Even Brexiteers here acknowledge the UK reputation as a country governed by the rule of law has been damaged, as a major component of the deal is a series of punitive provisions in case the UK reneges. 

 

This is unprecedented in a treaty signed by the UK. 

 

, 

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by Hi from France

Deal or not, it's up to all Brits to stop whining and carping and make Brexit work.

9 hours ago, Hi from France said:

 

Brexit will create a more bureaucratic state

 

 

That's great news then ????

11 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Deal or not, it's up to all Brits to stop whining and carping and make Brexit work.

Concretely how do you do that? This is a nice slogan but how do you do that? 

 

We're all in the midst of the worst recession in 300 years, and the UK is the country in the worst situation in the world save for Argentina. 

20 hours ago, Loiner said:

I'm dreaming of a No Deal christmas.

 

We, the people, dream about the outcome of the negotiations.

 

Mr. Johnson, and the E.U. will decide.

10 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Concretely how do you do that? This is a nice slogan but how do you do that? 

 

We're all in the midst of the worst recession in 300 years, and the UK is the country in the worst situation in the world save for Argentina. 

We don't have any problems inoculating our citizens like they are having in the EU, totally shamefull when they can't agree among themselves, how many lives will be lost before you admit that in emergencies the EU does not work. All 27 nations to agree, what a joke.

 

37 minutes ago, vogie said:

We don't have any problems inoculating our citizens like they are having in the EU, totally shamefull when they can't agree among themselves, how many lives will be lost before you admit that in emergencies the EU does not work. All 27 nations to agree, what a joke.

 

possible they just being cautious and wait to see all goes well about eventual nasty side effects like those few allergies cases or other not yet known ....

 

Besides we don't have "Boris-like leader" who is in high need for earning  some repair bonus points covering for bad handlings before ....????

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by david555

1 hour ago, DefaultName said:

Don't weaken now Boris, we voted out, get us all the way out.  I'm getting seriously <deleted> off at their proprietorial attitude to OUR fishing waters.

 

Anything other than a clean break and Boris's political career is over.

You’re a year late. You’re out since January. Brexit is done. We are talking about post-Brexit arrangements now. 

20 hours ago, Hi from France said:

 

Did Boris Johnson promise you that? Did you believe him?

I hope so go fishing elsewhere. ????

45 minutes ago, vogie said:

We don't have any problems inoculating our citizens like they are having in the EU

I was talking about the economic recovery not inoculating the German/US vaccine

 

but on this question, and beside thinking twice before initiating a mass inoculation

 

What do you think of the logistical issues ? No problem ?

 

 

 

This vaccine is made in the EU (Belgium) and there are so many traffics jams with Brexit that the only solution to get it in the UK is to use the RAF. So you might correct the "We don't have any problems" ? 

 

 

And what about the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, "We don't have any problems" ?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/26/scrutiny-grows-over-oxford-universityastrazeneca-vaccine

 

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You’re a year late. You’re out since January. Brexit is done. We are talking about post-Brexit arrangements now. 

Sorry, but those post-Brexit arrangements could give away the very rights that Brexit was intended to get back.  If the EU gets its way, we'll still have to give up fishing waters and adhere to their rules and regulations. 

Clean break please.  If our businesses want to buy from theirs, fine, if they want to buy from ours, also fine.  Tied to the EU, not fine.

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

In the event of no deal and the UK EU trade on WTO terms all vehicles in both directions will be subject to 10% tariffs

the  largest single item where the UK has a trade deficit is on vehicles so I assume you mean that the UK will benefit

Thats funny I spoke to my son in UK about 10% tariffs on cars he said so what if I'm buying £50,000 Bm I don't care about paying another £5000, its what I want. 

Aparently I'll have to get a Tesla in 10 years anyway. ????

23 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

Sorry, but those post-Brexit arrangements could give away the very rights that Brexit was intended to get back.  If the EU gets its way, we'll still have to give up fishing waters and adhere to their rules and regulations. 

Clean break please.  If our businesses want to buy from theirs, fine, if they want to buy from ours, also fine.  Tied to the EU, not fine.

saying "please" won't change the fact that the UK simply cannot have a clean break, the economy of the UK is deeply integrated with the economy of the EU.

 

 

even a "pretty please" won't change this 

 

 

you know the phrase 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_the_economy,_stupid

 

44 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

Sorry, but those post-Brexit arrangements could give away the very rights that Brexit was intended to get back. 

Brexit was to end EU membership. It wasn’t about any rights or arrangements post-Brexit. 

 

44 minutes ago, DefaultName said:

If the EU gets its way, we'll still have to give up fishing waters and adhere to their rules and regulations. 

Clean break please. 

...nor was it about fishing waters or any rules and regulations. “end EU membership” was on the ballot paper. Nothing more, nothing less. 

3 hours ago, DefaultName said:

Don't weaken now Boris, we voted out, get us all the way out.  I'm getting seriously <deleted> off at their proprietorial attitude to OUR fishing waters.

 

Anything other than a clean break and Boris's political career is over.

Our fishing waters? you a fisherman with title deeds on a bit of North sea ? Do you personally have any say, any rights regarding fishing grounds, what can be caught, where it can be sold? thought not, it's like saying 'our tax money' as if you or I have any influence how that money is wasted.

2 hours ago, DefaultName said:

Sorry, but those post-Brexit arrangements could give away the very rights that Brexit was intended to get back.  If the EU gets its way, we'll still have to give up fishing waters and adhere to their rules and regulations. 

Clean break please.  If our businesses want to buy from theirs, fine, if they want to buy from ours, also fine.  Tied to the EU, not fine.

Like I care about tons of herrings, I wouldn't eat them if they were free, anyway everyone knows they come out of tins.

4 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Like I care about tons of herrings, I wouldn't eat them if they were free, anyway everyone knows they come out of tins.

Bah fishing is the only topic in this negotiation where the Brits have quite the upper hand. 

So let's talk about fishing again ... 

The oven ready straight to the microwave better out than in take back control no change to NI hands off our fish deal still needs some fettling  ????

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by sammieuk1

 (4 Newspapers website just recently ....same story  )

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1373675/brexit-news-eu-uk-trade-deal-talks-deadline-michel-barnier-fishing-boris-johnson

Brexit no deal ultimatum: Barnier demands Boris gives in to red lines within 3 DAYS
THE European Parliament will refuse to rubber-stamp a Brexit trade deal unless negotiators reach an agreement by the end of the week.T
PUBLISHED: 12:21, Thu, Dec 17, 2020 | UPDATED: 12:27, Thu, Dec 17, 2020
 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-boris-johnson-update-latest-b1775396.html

Brexit news – live: European Parliament sets Sunday deadline for deal as Barnier says ‘good progress’ made
17 minutes ago
The European Parliament will not meet to ratify a Brexit trade deal unless one is signed before Sunday, meaning Britain is expected to face a no-deal exit if nothing is agreed by the end of the weekend.

Talks between Britain and the EU are in the “final stretch”, Europe’s chief negotiator Michel Barnier said, before adding that there was "good progress, but last stumbling blocks remain".

 

European parliament sets Sunday deadline for post-Brexit trade deal
MEPs say date is latest that will enable vote of consent to be held this year

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/17/european-parliament-sunday-deadline-post-brexit-trade-deal

European parliament sets Sunday deadline for post-Brexit trade deal
MEPs say date is latest that will enable vote of consent to be held this year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/17/brexit-news-latest-no-deal-talks-boris-johnson-tiers-fishing/

They issued the threat after a meeting with Michel Barnier in Brussel on Thursday, with the negotiator saying talks were now in the "final stretch" and it was "possible" to find an agreement on Friday.

Brexit negotiators have been set a deadline of Sunday, or the European Parliament will refuse to ratify the agreement and force a no trade deal Brexit, just as MPs were told Christmas recess will begin today.

Senior MEPs are furious they are being asked to ratify the agreement without sufficient time to scrutinise the agreement before the end of year no deal deadline.
 

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by david555

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

European parliament sets Sunday deadline for post-Brexit trade deal

Does anyone still believe all these deadlines set by either side? How many did we have? Wasn’t the last one just last Sunday? 
 

I’m repeating myself, but this will continue forever, regardless of all the blustering. European integration is a fact; no deadline or Brexit vote can just undo that. 

Great to see The Mogg putting Parliament into recess until January 5th.

 

Should make a deal even less likely. Unless all the MPs are recalled to work over Christmas to debate the reams and reams of the most important document in decades and rush it through in a few days.

 

Let's hope the MP's are back home now spending Christmas with their families. Settle in for the holidays guys. Make yourselves comfortable. Unpack those bags. Unwind. Keep travel to a minimum.

 

Well played Boris my son. Well played.

5 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Does anyone still believe all these deadlines set by either side? How many did we have? Wasn’t the last one just last Sunday? 
 

I’m repeating myself, but this will continue forever, regardless of all the blustering. European integration is a fact; no deadline or Brexit vote can just undo that. 

understand and agree your doubts ????..... only this time a parliament that is angry to be tried to put beside / delayed to accept whiteout scrutiny opportunity .... probably on both sides ..... a parliament counts more than just a few  people who can do backroom agreements ....and wish to have their say or nay that is te difference ????

 

And this last i mean for both sides parliaments

Edited December 17, 20205 yr by david555

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Great to see The Mogg putting Parliament into recess until January 5th.

 

Should make a deal even less likely. Unless all the MPs are recalled to work over Christmas to debate the reams and reams of the most important document in decades and rush it through in a few days.

 

Let's hope the MP's are back home now spending Christmas with their families. Settle in for the holidays guys. Make yourselves comfortable. Unpack those bags. Unwind. Keep travel to a minimum.

 

Well played Boris my son. Well played.

Have you come up with the economic argument for a no deal yet (which isn’t gonna happen in a million years!)