8 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

You mean Trump's moving party hosted by Four Seasons Landscaping in PA? ????

Yes, with goodie bags provided by an adjacent business...

5 hours ago, JulesMad said:

Does that idiot never shut up? All lies and fake ????

I'm afraid we all know the answer to your question. However, it will end fairly soon. Correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK convicts aren't allowed to have cell phones.

9 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

I'm afraid we all know the answer to your question. However, it will end fairly soon. Correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK convicts aren't allowed to have cell phones.

The problem is the reality of him ever seeing a cell or even being incarcerated for a night are extremely slim.
He will remain forevermore a former president entitled to 24/7 security , so even an overnight stay would be a logistical nightmare . Even if he is convicted, appeals will be dragged out until he dies or is declared unfit due to incompetence which should be not too hard to prove given his track record  over the past 4 years

4 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

The problem is the reality of him ever seeing a cell or even being incarcerated for a night are extremely slim.
He will remain forevermore a former president entitled to 24/7 security , so even an overnight stay would be a logistical nightmare . Even if he is convicted, appeals will be dragged out until he dies or is declared unfit due to incompetence which should be not too hard to prove given his track record  over the past 4 years

The real punishment for Trump will be exposure and public recognition that he is a cheat, liar and a charlatan. These on their own do not worry him - I am sure that he is utterly amoral, but when exposed through the courts they will brand him as a loser; combine that with losing his business empire through called in loans, and losing his personal wealth through tax penalties if his tax evasion is proven, that will break him - far more than imprisonment. The key is being shown to be a loser.

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by herfiehandbag

4 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

The problem is the reality of him ever seeing a cell or even being incarcerated for a night are extremely slim.
He will remain forevermore a former president entitled to 24/7 security , so even an overnight stay would be a logistical nightmare . Even if he is convicted, appeals will be dragged out until he dies or is declared unfit due to incompetence which should be not too hard to prove given his track record  over the past 4 years

If incompetence is a way of staying out of jail then I'm afraid the last 4 years is all the proof they need.

Trump attorneys risk disciplinary action over wave of election suits

“Essentially, the rules require lawyers to screen out junk from the court in order to protect judicial resources, which are limited. Lawyers have a gatekeeper function,” said Stephen Gillers, a law professor at New York University. “The abysmal failure rate of the campaign's claims, and the fact that claims were filed even after many losses, reveal almost certain violations of these rules.”

Trump attorneys risk disciplinary action over wave of election suits | TheHill

Trump to Snub His Own New Year’s Party for Last-Ditch Election Challenge, Says Report

A dejected and desperate President Trump is reportedly ditching his own Mar-a-Lago New Year’s Eve party to return to Washington as some of his fellow Republicans plot one last futile attempt to overturn the election... While in Florida, he has reportedly lobbied senators on whether they will object to the certification, and has also raised the matter with Vice President Mike Pence, who will oversee the process. Pence has reportedly had to personally explain to Trump that his role is ceremonial, and he can’t just decide to reject Electoral College votes.

Trump to Snub His Own New Year’s Party for Last-Ditch Election Challenge, Says Report (thedailybeast.com)

There's a great article in the Atlantic about how some guy discovered the Qanon movement well before most. He was betting via a political betting site called PredictIt and not doing particularly well. Then he noticed some crazy odds on propositions like James Comey would be indicted in 6 months, He looked all over but could find nothing in the MSM nor in the right wing sites like Breitbart. to back this up.. Anyway, he started betting against such propositions and started winning consistently. From the comments section he learned that the disastrous punters were supporters of Q.  And of course, post election, we've seen what disastrous punters some of these people continue to be. I recall one poster who said he would stake his life on the election results being overturned. I hope no one took him up on that bet. Anyway, here's a link.. 

The Dark Reality of Betting Against QAnon - The Atlantic

On 12/22/2020 at 8:17 PM, Phoenix Rising said:

I'm afraid we all know the answer to your question. However, it will end fairly soon. Correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK convicts aren't allowed to have cell phones.

Allowed, yeah - but that does not stop them from having them... they can be flown in by drones now...

A post containing unsubstantiated claims has been reported and removed.

 

3 hours ago, Scott said:

A post containing unsubstantiated claims has been reported and removed.

 

 

Long overdue for MSM to do the same with trump and enablers asinine claims

Edited January 2, 20215 yr by simple1

On 12/23/2020 at 5:45 AM, RJRS1301 said:

The problem is the reality of him ever seeing a cell or even being incarcerated for a night are extremely slim.

 

I am hoping that Trump will indeed self-pardon, although all of his lawyers must be explaining to him that such a pardon might not stand up in court.  He would be far better off getting a pardon from Pence one way or another, but maybe Pence is unwilling to trash his political future for Trump's benefit.  The reason I would like to see Trump pardon himself is that that step will be just too far for the Biden administration, who don't want to prosecute Trump.  But for the president to be formally above the law is too violent an attack on the entire rule of law in the country.  

 

So, my expectation is that the Biden administration will in the end not be willing to give Trump a pass on pardoning himself.  The only way to challenge the legitimacy of such a pardon is to indict Trump and see if the judge dismisses the charges, because of the pardon, or instead dismisses the pardon.  Of course, it will be appealed up to the Supreme Court.  I expect the SC to rule a self-pardon illegitimate, but not by 9 to 0.   

12 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

I am hoping that Trump will indeed self-pardon, although all of his lawyers must be explaining to him that such a pardon might not stand up in court.  He would be far better off getting a pardon from Pence one way or another, but maybe Pence is unwilling to trash his political future for Trump's benefit.  The reason I would like to see Trump pardon himself is that that step will be just too far for the Biden administration, who don't want to prosecute Trump.  But for the president to be formally above the law is too violent an attack on the entire rule of law in the country.  

 

So, my expectation is that the Biden administration will in the end not be willing to give Trump a pass on pardoning himself.  The only way to challenge the legitimacy of such a pardon is to indict Trump and see if the judge dismisses the charges, because of the pardon, or instead dismisses the pardon.  Of course, it will be appealed up to the Supreme Court.  I expect the SC to rule a self-pardon illegitimate, but not by 9 to 0.   

 

From memory Biden has indicated he will not persue trump via the Federal Courts as will encourage further extreme partisan division. Criminal proceeding against him and family will be via NY Courts, from info to date  financial malfeasence, possibly including charges for money laudering.

24 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

From memory Biden has indicated he will not pursue trump via the Federal Courts as will encourage further extreme partisan division. Criminal proceeding against him and family will be via NY Courts, from info to date  financial malfeasance, possibly including charges for money laundering.

Let me clarify that - Biden has said he will not be involved in any charges brought against the 45 administration and if his Attorney General wants to go after them, then the AG has his blessings and not his meddling.

1 hour ago, cmarshall said:

 

I am hoping that Trump will indeed self-pardon, although all of his lawyers must be explaining to him that such a pardon might not stand up in court.  He would be far better off getting a pardon from Pence one way or another, but maybe Pence is unwilling to trash his political future for Trump's benefit.  The reason I would like to see Trump pardon himself is that that step will be just too far for the Biden administration, who don't want to prosecute Trump.  But for the president to be formally above the law is too violent an attack on the entire rule of law in the country.  

 

So, my expectation is that the Biden administration will in the end not be willing to give Trump a pass on pardoning himself.  The only way to challenge the legitimacy of such a pardon is to indict Trump and see if the judge dismisses the charges, because of the pardon, or instead dismisses the pardon.  Of course, it will be appealed up to the Supreme Court.  I expect the SC to rule a self-pardon illegitimate, but not by 9 to 0.   

Sad times when Americans are OK with their elected leaders committing crimes.  Regardless of the consequences, which I don't think will be that serious, a precedent needs to be set.  Lie under oath, go to jail.  Or at least get fired.  Obstruct justice by withholding information, get fired.  Or censored.  Or both.

 

Too much BS happened during the Trump administration.  Our democracy was rocked.  Time to make some changes.  A biggie would be to reform congress.  They are terrible now.  Only an 18% approval rating.  In the corporate world, they'd be fired.

 

These court cases by the GOP are sedition.  And should be pursued as such.

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

 

From memory Biden has indicated he will not persue trump via the Federal Courts as will encourage further extreme partisan division. Criminal proceeding against him and family will be via NY Courts, from info to date  financial malfeasence, possibly including charges for money laudering.

 

Biden has expressed a reluctance to prosecute Trump, but that's just the correct position for him to take whatever his intentions actually are.  In fact, Biden will decide whether or not to prosecute Trump when he selects an Attorney General.  He will know who among the possible picks will be eager to go after Trump and who will think it's better for democracy not to.  

 

The best outcome for Biden is that Pence pardons Trump, because that gets him off the hook and the NY Atty Gen and Manhattan DA can charge Trump with local crimes.  A self-pardon is in some sense the worst outcome for Biden, because tolerating it will not be an option in the eyes of the Democratic base.

Interesting read.  We're in uncharted waters with Trump....again...

 

Trump won't pardon himself as legally, it's dodgy and could get overturned.  He'll probably resign and have lackey Pence do the dirty deed. Luckily, there's lots of stuff the states can go after him for.  None of which will be covered by the feds.

 

https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2020/12/ny-ag-predicts-president-trump-will-step-down-so-vp-pence-can-pardon-him.html

NY AG predicts President Trump will step down so VP Pence can pardon him

10 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Trump won't pardon himself as legally, it's dodgy and could get overturned.  He'll probably resign and have lackey Pence do the dirty deed.

Were this to occur (and if I were a betting man, I'd put money on it happening) then Pence could attend the inauguration, letting the loser-in-chief save his fake tan face.

28 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Biden has expressed a reluctance to prosecute Trump, but that's just the correct position for him to take whatever his intentions actually are.  In fact, Biden will decide whether or not to prosecute Trump when he selects an Attorney General.  He will know who among the possible picks will be eager to go after Trump and who will think it's better for democracy not to.  

 

The best outcome for Biden is that Pence pardons Trump, because that gets him off the hook and the NY Atty Gen and Manhattan DA can charge Trump with local crimes.  A self-pardon is in some sense the worst outcome for Biden, because tolerating it will not be an option in the eyes of the Democratic base.

You need to explain the negative for Biden of prosecuting Trump.

 

With Trump from office the lid will come off what he’s been up to, not just what has Be redacted in the Mueller report, but also interference in that report, Presidential records that belong in the public domain but have been hidden from public view, overspill from criminal prosecutions in Federal and State prosecutions of those around Trump.

 

Trump is done, his crimes are coming out and I see negative for Biden in simply standing back and letting the DoJ do their job.

 

But it’s not just about Biden, Trump has attacked the Constitution corrupted the desperation of powers and employed Government as his own private staff, no more so than the USAG and the DoJ, If that is not dealt with now it will happen again.

 

Biden needs to fix Trump’s mess, he can’t avoid it.

3 minutes ago, J Town said:

Were this to occur (and if I were a betting man, I'd put money on it happening) then Pence could attend the inauguration, letting the loser-in-chief save his fake tan face.

Pence is a total lackey.  Like many others in the GOP, has his nose way up Trump's...yeah...

 

He's making a run for president, just like Hawley, Cruz, and a few others who are going along with this act of sedition.

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You need to explain the negative for Biden of prosecuting Trump.

 

With Trump from office the lid will come off what he’s been up to, not just what has Be redacted in the Mueller report, but also interference in that report, Presidential records that belong in the public domain but have been hidden from public view, overspill from criminal prosecutions in Federal and State prosecutions of those around Trump.

 

Trump is done, his crimes are coming out and I see negative for Biden in simply standing back and letting the DoJ do their job.

 

But it’s not just about Biden, Trump has attacked the Constitution corrupted the desperation of powers and employed Government as his own private staff, no more so than the USAG and the DoJ, If that is not dealt with now it will happen again.

 

Biden needs to fix Trump’s mess, he can’t avoid it.

Some are against going after Trump, some are for it.  In the end, if the rule of law was broken, a price must be paid.  Otherwise, it sets a bad precedent.  Hopefully, Biden will get an aggressive AG, who will follow the rule of law, and purse at least some of these crimes.  Some laid out by Mueller...in detail...

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

36 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Biden has expressed a reluctance to prosecute Trump

<snip>

 

You need to explain the negative for Biden of prosecuting Trump

<snip>

Again, Biden is a seasoned enough politician who knows how to play the game. He is stating repeatedly HE will not go after the 45 administration, but it's wide open for the new Attorney General to throw the entire weight of the federal system against them all.

17 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Interesting read.  We're in uncharted waters with Trump....again...

 

Trump won't pardon himself as legally, it's dodgy and could get overturned.  He'll probably resign and have lackey Pence do the dirty deed. Luckily, there's lots of stuff the states can go after him for.  None of which will be covered by the feds.

 

https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/2020/12/ny-ag-predicts-president-trump-will-step-down-so-vp-pence-can-pardon-him.html

NY AG predicts President Trump will step down so VP Pence can pardon him

This relies on Trump Pence and Trump understanding he can’t outsmart the courts.

 

Pence let him down yesterday and Trump’s narcissistic belief that he’s smarter than everyone is a constant.

 

I’ll put my punt on Trump not trusting Pence and pardoning himself.

 

With a dude bet on Trump trusting Pence and Pence once again letting him down.

9 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This relies on Trump Pence and Trump understanding he can’t outsmart the courts.

 

Pence let him down yesterday and Trump’s narcissistic belief that he’s smarter than everyone is a constant.

 

I’ll put my punt on Trump not trusting Pence and pardoning himself.

 

With a dude bet on Trump trusting Pence and Pence once again letting him down.

OK!  Game on.  Let's see how wins this debate.  I'm thinking a Pence pardon.  Let's synch up later on this!  May the best man win!

 

Worst case, this will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

13 minutes ago, J Town said:

Again, Biden is a seasoned enough politician who knows how to play the game. He is stating repeatedly HE will not go after the 45 administration, but it's wide open for the new Attorney General to throw the entire weight of the federal system against them all.

I'm hoping for a very exciting first quarter of 2021...politically.  ????

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This relies on Trump Pence and Trump understanding he can’t outsmart the courts.

 

Pence let him down yesterday and Trump’s narcissistic belief that he’s smarter than everyone is a constant.

 

I’ll put my punt on Trump not trusting Pence and pardoning himself.

 

With a dude bet on Trump trusting Pence and Pence once again letting him down.

If Pence refuses to go along with Trump's nutty ploy on 6 Jan, he will immediately be on Dear Leader's sht list.  I think Trump is getting tons of crappy advice from people who simply aren't qualified to give him advice.  So it may get nuttier even after 6 Jan.  I agree that having Pence pardon him is the smartest thing to do.  But Trump is not in a state of mind to do the smart thing.  Yes, I think Trump will pardon himself and it may be on 19 Jan.

4 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

If Pence refuses to go along with Trump's nutty ploy on 6 Jan, he will immediately be on Dear Leader's sht list.  I think Trump is getting tons of crappy advice from people who simply aren't qualified to give him advice.  So it may get nuttier even after 6 Jan.  I agree that having Pence pardon him is the smartest thing to do.  But Trump is not in a state of mind to do the smart thing.  Yes, I think Trump will pardon himself and it may be on 19 Jan.

well put.  Not sure Trump's ego could handle him quitting.  It would be seen as a massive loss.  And he can't handle that. 

 

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You need to explain the negative for Biden of prosecuting Trump.

 

With Trump from office the lid will come off what he’s been up to, not just what has Be redacted in the Mueller report, but also interference in that report, Presidential records that belong in the public domain but have been hidden from public view, overspill from criminal prosecutions in Federal and State prosecutions of those around Trump.

 

Trump is done, his crimes are coming out and I see negative for Biden in simply standing back and letting the DoJ do their job.

 

But it’s not just about Biden, Trump has attacked the Constitution corrupted the desperation of powers and employed Government as his own private staff, no more so than the USAG and the DoJ, If that is not dealt with now it will happen again.

 

Biden needs to fix Trump’s mess, he can’t avoid it.

 

Prosecuting Trump is lose/lose for Biden.  Since the Democrats would like to get some of those Trump votes next time, they hardly want to inflame Trumpist anger further.  Biden did not attack Trump all that much during the campaign, for example.  Then too, prosecuting Trump is a big rupture in the American tradition of not using the criminal justice system against political rivals.  Finally, some people would regard Biden as vindictive just when he wants to show that he represents all Americans.

 

Biden has said more than once that when Trump is gone comity will return to the halls of Congress once again.  Of course, he's dreaming, since it was Gingrich more than Trump who introduced savagery into American political discourse.  As long as the Republicans can only hope to achieve their goals through minority rule, they are stuck with anti-democratic tactics.

 

I hardly need point out that these are not my own views.  But Biden would breathe a sigh of relief if President-for-an-afternoon Pence were to pardon Trump.  While prosecuting Trump would likely be a political burden for Biden, the opposite is true for Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance and New York State Attorney General Tish James, both of whom see the next Governor of New York when they look in the mirror.

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

If Pence refuses to go along with Trump's nutty ploy on 6 Jan, he will immediately be on Dear Leader's sht list.  I think Trump is getting tons of crappy advice from people who simply aren't qualified to give him advice.  So it may get nuttier even after 6 Jan.  I agree that having Pence pardon him is the smartest thing to do.  But Trump is not in a state of mind to do the smart thing.  Yes, I think Trump will pardon himself and it may be on 19 Jan.

Stupid and ignorant as Trump is, he has always been careful at managing his legal liability.  So, while his natural preference would be a self-pardon out of vanity, he probably knows that the lawyers advising him against it are correct.  Therefore, if he does issue his own pardon, it will only be because Pence wouldn't play ball.

9 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

Prosecuting Trump is lose/lose for Biden.  Since the Democrats would like to get some of those Trump votes next time, they hardly want to inflame Trumpist anger further.  Biden did not attack Trump all that much during the campaign, for example.  Then too, prosecuting Trump is a big rupture in the American tradition of not using the criminal justice system against political rivals.  Finally, some people would regard Biden as vindictive just when he wants to show that he represents all Americans.

 

Biden has said more than once that when Trump is gone comity will return to the halls of Congress once again.  Of course, he's dreaming, since it was Gingrich more than Trump who introduced savagery into American political discourse.  As long as the Republicans can only hope to achieve their goals through minority rule, they are stuck with anti-democratic tactics.

 

I hardly need point out that these are not my own views.  But Biden would breathe a sigh of relief if President-for-an-afternoon Pence were to pardon Trump.  While prosecuting Trump would likely be a political burden for Biden, the opposite is true for Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance and New York State Attorney General Tish James, both of whom see the next Governor of New York when they look in the mirror.

Those who voted for Trump won't vote for dems no matter what.  Too hard core, too much KoolAid drank.  They only have to worry about alienating their own base, and independents.  Most of which hate Trump. 

 

Get a good AG and let them do their thing.  If  laws were broken, they need to be investigated.  I'm sure Kamala will be on top of this as she's a former AG.  And a candidate for president in 2024.