Hiring A Building Project Manager

[dickie58]

A friend of mine has just given me the book" How to buy land & build a house in Thailand", written by Phillip Bryce.

On chapter 9 page 96, the author has written a section on project managers which reads:

"If your not living in Thailand full time or you are not supervising the building yourself, you should definitely consider hiring a local project manager.

The project manager is usally a native English (or your language) speaking person with a background in construction, who has lived, and supervised the building of houses in your area and has some building experience from the west.

Project managers usally charge a 25% fee on top of the total cost of your project. For that they will help you hire a builder, supervise the building process and help with the purchase of building materials. They will do project planning & scheduling of deliveries, and may do budgeting and handling of payments"

This author who has no connection to me whatsoever I might ad, has hit the nail completley on the head in my eyes, this is only 3 paragraphs from this section, but he clearly makes a very good point.

The complete book which in itself is also very good.

If you do a search on google for the author name there is numerous places you can buy this book as well as online. I have also seen it for sale in Asia books & Bookazine

[Mobi]

Any such project manager - and there are a few around - is almost certainly working illegally, and in the current climate I would advise against such practice unless the foreigner in question can produce a work permit in which it clearly states his permitted employment.

And speaking from personal experience, I wouldn't trust most of them - many are a bunch of 'duckers & divers' with questionable construction experience, awaiting the next farang mug to present themselves for fleecing,

[GuestHouse]

My guess is that he OP’s inbox is filling up with Private Messages on this one.

I can’t think of any business that attracts more scheisters than that building trade, OK maybe second hand car salesmen and estate agents.

Add to that the reputation of Thailand for attracting the ‘cream of the crop’ in the 'scamming foreigners' brigade and it would to my mind be extremely risky to employ any foreigner in Thailand to do any building related work.

Stick with a local architect/building company (They built all those first class hotels and resorts we all love to stay in).

And don’t build unless you are in Thailand to keep a personal eye on things.

[quiksilva]

Blimey GH you do like your generalisations don't you?

Stick with a local architect/building company (They built all those first class hotels and resorts we all love to stay in).

. What about Mr Bill Bensley and his studio's work here (Google: Bensley Design Studios)? Internationally renowned architectual practices and project managers have worked on some fantastic projects in Thailand. It was most certainly not all done by locals. If you want a list of firms who I work with and have had positive feedback from let me know.

When looking for any service provider in any industry, first look to companies who can provide solid track records and client references, and seek out referrals from friends and business associates. There are plenty of quality firms out there, do your homework on all consultants (i.e. check references) so you know who you are dealing with. Expect to pay for quality advice though.

Does it really matter whether they are Expatriate or English speaking Thai ? Surely what matters is the quality of the job they do and the value for money that they represent and the value added to your project.

[GuestHouse]

What about Mr Bill Bensley and his studio's work here (Google: Bensley Design Studios)? Internationally renowned architectual practices and project managers have worked on some fantastic projects in Thailand

Yep, there are some great internationaly renowned project managers in Thailand.

But there are far more fly by nights claiming to be project managers.

[excaliber]

Any such project manager - and there are a few around - is almost certainly working illegally, and in the current climate I would advise against such practice unless the foreigner in question can produce a work permit in which it clearly states his permitted employment.

And speaking from personal experience, I wouldn't trust most of them - many are a bunch of 'duckers & divers' with questionable construction experience, awaiting the next farang mug to present themselves for fleecing,

Sounds pretty negative for someone who signs their posts: “Those who are free of resentful thoughts surely find peace.”

— Buddha

While not everyone may share your philosophy, all Project Managers aren't created equal.

Anyone who's built a house in Thailand, hiring a contractor or hiring the labor only, knows the pitfalls and headaches that most don't want to wake up to face in the morning. Paying a premium to a contractor doesn't guarantee quality supervision and management, in fact, most of the time it doesn't. Contractors come around to pick up money, drop off labor and materials but rarely spend time on-site supervising. Money spent on an experienced Project Manager, either a farang or Thai with western experience will not only save you money in the long run but a considerable amount of hair.

Managing construction projects in the west is much easier because there are government inspector's to ensure the contractor is building properly and to code. Managing projects in Thailand isn't a 9 to 5 job, it's all day and usually into the night to make sure all is going according to plan. There are lots of tricks and scams that local contractor's use to increase profits. Example: Buying empty paint cans with expensive labels and pouring their cheap paint into them. There are many more but thats what Project Manager's get paid for, 'being aware' and on top of the situation.

In addition, it can get pretty dangerous sometimes for a farang managing a project. How? insisting on quality and not signing or paying until it's acceptable can bring on some irritable reactions from contractor's. To begin with, the farang should speak and understand the Thai language as well as Thai building standards which don't hold a candle to western standards. Basic things like water going towards the drain and not away from it, wall plumb, floors and ceilings level, BASICS although here you have to check and re-check and then check again or you may find yourself watching them break it out and re-doing it.

A Project Manager worth a salt will know when and where to be most of the time and especially during concrete pours. Thai's like to use a lot of water to make it easy to place the concrete and this just takes all the strength out of the mix. Wonder why there are so many cracks in Thailand? too much water and they don't always use clean water and they usually don't wash the sand either. Lots of things we take for granite having come from the west where there is 'recourse'; lawyers, small claims court, etc. Here, you're on your own and if you don't take the time and energy to babysit the project from sun up to sun down you'll most probably be fixing and replacing for years to come.

Anyway, just my two baht's worth after nearly 20 years of managing construction projects throughout the Kingdom...

cheers....and remember, you don't always get what you pay for....

[Mobi]

Any such project manager - and there are a few around - is almost certainly working illegally, and in the current climate I would advise against such practice unless the foreigner in question can produce a work permit in which it clearly states his permitted employment.

And speaking from personal experience, I wouldn't trust most of them - many are a bunch of 'duckers & divers' with questionable construction experience, awaiting the next farang mug to present themselves for fleecing,

Sounds pretty negative for someone who signs their posts: “Those who are free of resentful thoughts surely find peace.”

— Buddha

Um....er.....

So just because I warn the OP about the proliferation of charlatans and cowboy construction outfits in this fair Kingdom, that means that I harbour resentful thoughts??

And if I try to follow Buddha's teachings about harbouring resentful thoughts, that means that I am not allowed to warn people about potential dangers and pitfalls??

I personally was not screwed by some 'fly by night', so I have nothing to be resentful about. But I know plenty who were.

Before I was halfway through reading your post I knew with absolute certainty that it was written by someone with a vested interest in the construction industry. I wonder why?

Fortunately, most of us can spot the 'cowboys' a mile off, and they kid no-one, except perhaps a few gullible farangs whose blocked ears (and brains?) have not yet become unplugged from the rigours of their incoming flights to Paradise - or is it flights of fancy?

But I am sure there are some decent ones out there, and maybe you do indeed belong in this group, but the 64,000 dollar question is how do you sort the good from the bad?

And I reiterate my concerns as to the legality of any farang project-managed construction operation.

[excaliber]

But I am sure there are some decent ones out there, and maybe you do indeed belong in this group, but the 64,000 dollar question is how do you sort the good from the bad?

No argument about a lot of un-qualified farang presenting themselves as 'qualified' although a little research, resume', references do help in making a decision, and as you say, most farang who want to build have eyes and ears and can realize in a short time if a man is qualified or not.

In addition, there are some very good contractor's who don't need supervision and have a lot of experience building and remodeling for farang but unfortunately they are always booked up for months ahead. I know people, Thai's who have waited a year for a particular contractor who has an impeccable reputation. They're finish work is second to none, at least from what I've seen and his prices are very reasonable, the only problem is, he won't travel far from home, he doesn't need to.

I've met many farang over the years who asked me to manage the construction of their house and offered to pay similar to a'Thai salary'.

Working here I've made much less than in the west and have to work ten times harder.

You can't expect a Thai contractor to build to western standards if he doesn't have experience. Other's reading this that have built here know that you have to get your hands dirty and show them 'how' to do it western style or you bite your lip and live with what you get.

Most contractors work on putting at least 50% of the contract price in their pocket; a good Project Manager can help reduce this quite considerably as well as ensure the 'water goes down the drain' and the house doesn't crack and/or sink. So, if you do find a reputable one, treat him right.

and yes, you're right, I do have a vested interest, I've been in the construction industry for nearly forty years and there are many more like me in the Kingdom who have integrity and take pride in what they do, unfortunately most are probably to busy to read these posts.

[dickie58]

I made the orignal post but it was only an article out of a book as I clearly stated.

By posting the article I was just trying to make the point that a Project manager is needed if your having a place built & are unable to supervise it yourself for whatever reason

I am also related to the building industry, I also consider 25% a bit high, I would have thought to project manage a good quality house 4 million baht ++ your talking 12 to 15% max.

A lot of Archtects charge 3 to 5% to do drawings, although I do no one in BKK who does very upmarket commercial work like the new Amari hotel in Pattaya & the Mantra pub, & he charges something like 12%, a lot of archtects only want to do drawings, & the ones who say they will also manage the job will only visit the site once a week at most.

There are a few archtects out there who will charge a fixed fee for drawings, but they are starting to get few & far between

Whether they are Thai or a Farang does not really matter, the important thing is having a very good reputable builder.

There are some very good Thai archtects out there, although not that many in Pattaya??

For anybody else out there who has made negative comments!!!!, I'm no fly-by-nite, I have a number of years of building experince in the UK, I have lived in Ptty for 13 years, I have a Thai registered company & a valid Thai work permit.

As some members have clearly stated & I agree, the most important thing is to have a good builder working with you, & see some of his previous jobs to qualify this.

[mfp]

I made the orignal post but it was only an article out of a book as I clearly stated.

By posting the article I was just trying to make the point that a Project manager is needed if your having a place built & are unable to supervise it yourself for whatever reason

I am also related to the building industry, I also consider 25% a bit high, I would have thought to project manage a good quality house 4 million baht ++ your talking 12 to 15% max.

A lot of Archtects charge 3 to 5% to do drawings, although I do no one in BKK who does very upmarket commercial work like the new Amari hotel in Pattaya & the Mantra pub, & he charges something like 12%, a lot of archtects only want to do drawings, & the ones who say they will also manage the job will only visit the site once a week at most.

There are a few archtects out there who will charge a fixed fee for drawings, but they are starting to get few & far between

Whether they are Thai or a Farang does not really matter, the important thing is having a very good reputable builder.

There are some very good Thai archtects out there, although not that many in Pattaya??

For anybody else out there who has made negative comments!!!!, I'm no fly-by-nite, I have a number of years of building experince in the UK, I have lived in Ptty for 13 years, I have a Thai registered company & a valid Thai work permit.

As some members have clearly stated & I agree, the most important thing is to have a good builder working with you, & see some of his previous jobs to qualify this.

hi

it seems that you have started a quit interesting topic. I fully agree with all coments stated by excaliber, absolut true. But with my work, I experienced that it is also in Thailand possible to realize a project to our western standart and expectations. A professional and qualified Project Managers speciallity, and this is basic, is also to generate or organize clear, complete understandable and detailed Project documents such as Conditions of Contract, User requirements, Specifications, complete bills of quantities (with quantities!), correct drawings, tender evaluations etc, etc.

Then, a very tight and experienced supervision is absolut neccessary. I really enjoy working with our Thai friends, but giving them to much free space will went wrong. As a reliable Project Manager, I have to be fully aware about every detail of payments, that will be reconfirmed by the suppliers (also they can cheat), all material orders are totally supervised and the quality standard will be checked, the quantities will be checked and noted to make sure that nothing goes to any other project, etc, etc. So, good Project Management is really a lot of work and full time job and demands nothing but really a top professional Project Manager but for sure lesser then 25% of Project costs. I am managing a Project Management and Architecture Company in Bangkok since 4 years, and by the way, include work permit and qualified as Swiss confederate certified Project Manager. It is the Project Managers duty to act as the clients trusty and I would not recomment to pay such a high amount even for the best possible Project Management.

[GuestHouse]

I find it a bit rich, foreigners who are running a business in Thailand to come on here, and other forums, stating and/or implying the need to employ a foreigner (presumably themsevelves) to do work that Thais are quite capable of doing.

We have the same thing going on in one of the discussions on domestic electrics. (The building trade!)

As a TV member who comes here to get and share information, I don't see anything wrong with questioning the motives of people 'promoting' the idea that the only way to get a decent house built/wiring job done etc is to employ a farang - The assertion is fundamentally wrong and in my mind derogatory to Thais.

The best posts on any subject here on TV are those where people share advice on how to do things, get around problems, the sharing of experience.

Somebody trying to sell a service doesn’t want to share the information for free, so they are hardly coming here for that purpose.

There are however plenty of TV members who are not builders willing to share their experiences of building in Thailand. If one of those people come on here recommending that we 'consider' employing Mr A, B, or C because of his own good experience, I'm delighted to here it.

Guys pushing their own business, undermining the great work many Thais do and worst of all undermining the confidence of TV members who want to self build is another matter - It's an advertisement, and as with all advertisements - There is likely to be little if no truth to the claims being made.

Look around you folks there are plenty of beautiful Thai homes built without an Farang 'Expert' in sight.

That's not to say there aren't any good, reliable expat building managers in Thailand, of course they are. My guess is they have enough work by word of mouth recommendation.

Edited May 9, 2007 by GuestHouse

[mfp]

<br />I find it a bit rich, foreigners who are running a business in Thailand to come on here, and other forums, stating and/or implying the need to employ a foreigner (presumably themsevelves) to do work that Thais are quite capable of doing.<br /><br />We have the same thing going on in one of the discussions on domestic electrics. (The building trade!)<br /><br />As a TV member who comes here to get and share information, I don't see anything wrong with questioning the motives of people 'promoting' the idea that the only way to get a decent house built/wiring job done etc is to employ a farang - The assertion is fundamentally wrong and in my mind derogatory to Thais.<br /><br />The best posts on any subject here on TV are those where people share advice on how to do things, get around problems, the sharing of experience.<br /><br />Somebody trying to sell a service doesn't want to share the information for free, so they are hardly coming here for that purpose.<br /><br />There are however plenty of TV members who are not builders willing to share their experiences of building in Thailand. If one of those people come on here recommending that we 'consider' employing Mr A, B, or C because of his own good experience, I'm delighted to here it.<br /><br />Guys pushing their own business, undermining the great work many Thais do and worst of all undermining the confidence of TV members who want to self build is another matter - It's an advertisement, and as with all advertisements - There is likely to be little if no truth to the claims being made. <br /><br />Look around you folks there are plenty of beautiful Thai homes built without an Farang 'Expert' in sight.<br /><br /><br />That's not to say there aren't any good, reliable expat building managers in Thailand, of course they are. My guess is they have enough work by word of mouth recommendation.<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

I think that we might should open a new topic for this discussion. However, it is my objective to share informations and my personal point of view too. I would never be derogatory to thais. i came here to run a businessin in love and respect to this country and people. i haven't mentioned anytime my company but stated that i can help and it is up to everyone to decide to contact me or any other person for more help. So, indirect I made advertising but what is wrong with that in a free forum? did you recognize all the banners, this is real advertising. In addition, I agree with you that there are also Thai poeples to be capable for such a job. Myself employs permanently 4 qualified Thai Staffs and they make an absolut great job! I also have to admit, that i am entering a forum for the absolut first time (since just 2 hours) and might be a rooky. If it is against any rule to propose the own person or company for support then I will refuse to do this for the future.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Yes mfp,

Using the forum to promote a business is against the rules, unless you are a registered sponsor.

Should you wish to consider sponsorship, please contact [email protected]

[TackleHappy]

Not to mention the 25% fee...on a 6 mil house that is 1.5 mil to add to the cost... not a bad earn if you can get it. Remember he is probably not just working for you at the same time, maybe 1 or 2 or more others also.

[dickie58]

Not to mention the 25% fee...on a 6 mil house that is 1.5 mil to add to the cost... not a bad earn if you can get it. Remember he is probably not just working for you at the same time, maybe 1 or 2 or more others also.

But that project managment fee whatever it may be, could save you millions if your having a house built & not supervising it for whatever reason.

Your be sure the builder has not disaperead with your money, this is not un-heard of believe me

[excaliber]

Not to mention the 25% fee...on a 6 mil house that is 1.5 mil to add to the cost... not a bad earn if you can get it. Remember he is probably not just working for you at the same time, maybe 1 or 2 or more others also.

But that project managment fee whatever it may be, could save you millions if your having a house built & not supervising it for whatever reason.

Your be sure the builder has not disaperead with your money, this is not un-heard of believe me

There are many things to consider, "Why should I hire a Project Manager?".

1. Making sure the plans and details are accurate and not "overbuilt" for profit. Example:

Many years ago managing the construction of an electronics factory the contractor specified lots of H-beam steel for roof support. Steel is much more expensive than concrete, increasing the overall cost as well as profit for the contractor who charges 'by weight'. Steel is much quicker and easier to install; crane and a couple guys to cinch it down.

Because of my background I was able to re-engineer the drawings eliminating a lot of unnecessary steel replacing it with concrete columns. The savings on this aspect alone was 2.5 million baht.

2. Strict attention of labor & material costs. Having a thorough knowledge of local labor and material costs can save a lot of money.

3. Job and material kickbacks: Common on most projects. Material suppliers will give a percentage; 5 to 10% kickbacks to the contractor and or other agents of the project/house owner. This can be monitored if one knows how.

4. Contracts and payment schedules: Most Project Managers with experience in the Kingdom will have proper contracts that include payment schedules. Normally a lawyer would do this for you although most lawyers have little to no construction experience so you're dependent on his limited knowledge.

5. Inferior materials: It's not un-common for builders to substitute inferior materials to increase profits. A seasoned Project Manager will know what to look for. Proper materials: cement, steel, grouts, additives, sealers, hardware, etc., etc. Even if you are managing the construction of your own house you need some knowledge of these and other aspects.

6. Proper construction applications: Someone with little or no hands-on experience and knowledge won't know the 'water doesn't go down the drain' until it's too late adding extra time, materials and labor to the project if the floor has to be broken out and redone.

Making sure the walls are plumb so the finishes are square and even. (Take a look in your bathroom at the floor where it meets the wall. Are the tiles the same size from one wall to the other?) Are the ceiling tiles proportionate? This is one particular test I give junior Thai (and farang) Project Manager's, "How to check and make sure the walls are square to one another?" and guess what, everyone of them didn't know the correct answer. A square doesn't do it, measuring from wall to wall doesn't do it. There's a formula that's very basic in nature that's very accurate. Lots of bits of technical and non-technical information to ensure a happy home..

and a special note to "tackleHappy". You appear not to have any construction experience in Thailand and perhaps anywhere else. Managing a single project is a 'full-time' occupation leaving little to no time for leisure activities and most especially "other projects". I can tell you many horror stories of house construction in the Kingdom and you can of course read about a lot of them also. It's a choice one has to make.

The bottom line is: (thanks dickie58 for your input) if you hire a Project Manager who knows his job, his salary or percentage won't cost you anything after all the cost savings in materials, labor, etc., and you'll end up with a better and stronger house that won't need repairs and/or replacements for eternity....and will most probably end up paying less for the overall build through diligent monitoring, etc., by hiring a competent PM.

and another special note to Guesthouse. This is not an advertisement for a job. I have a very good job and am not looking for another one.

All the above is for informational purposes only. The author assumes no responsibility for the outcome of your project regardless if you use any of the information stated or not...

Edited May 11, 2007 by excaliber

[chownah]

Why a project manager?...simple....you know nothing about building and have no time or inclination to be involved so you need someone independent from the contractors (who are trying to get all your money) to be sure things are done properly and efficiently.

A good project manager will save you lots of headaches and give you a better finished product...and...if the architect has dropped the ball then a good project manager (a really good one) will spot this and corrections can be made.

A bad project manager will accomplish nothing and simply drive up the cost of your project....and a bad project manager who has worked with the contractors before and they are his buddies can bleed you dry.

With a good contractor you don't need a project manager....the problem is how do you find a good contractor and when you find one how will you know?....but.... on the other hand how do you find a good project manager and when you find one how will you know?

chownah

[stevejones123]

You employ a project manager to keep the Thai contractor honest, but who is keeping the project manager honest?

If you're building you will supervise yourself, or get somebody who you can really trust to do it for you. If you or your Thai friend are unqualified to do the project management, then don't build.

The 25% suggested fee is an absurdly hefty expense.

Nevertheless many of the warnings are correct, especially with regard to concrete. One scam is using the wrong kind of sand. In Taiwan for example they used sea sand in many buildings and they developed severe cracks because of the salinity. It is possible to use sea sand, but it needs loads of washing, and I don't know if there is anywhere that processes it properly in Thailand.

[NHC]

Not to mention the 25% fee...on a 6 mil house that is 1.5 mil to add to the cost... not a bad earn if you can get it. Remember he is probably not just working for you at the same time, maybe 1 or 2 or more others also.

But that project managment fee whatever it may be, could save you millions if your having a house built & not supervising it for whatever reason.

Your be sure the builder has not disaperead with your money, this is not un-heard of believe me

There are many things to consider, "Why should I hire a Project Manager?".

Does anone have contact information for "excaliber"? He is not answering his PM's and I would like to discuss having a set of building plans drawn up ASAP. Any help with contact phone number or email would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys. Please PM me if you can help.

Cheers, NHC

Edited February 5, 2009 by NHC

[kenco]

Wow ! What a reaction from some people. I have to agree with alot that was said, but one can not tar everyone with the same brush. Are all English people horrible nasty football thugs and are all Muslim faith people terrorists ? Well of course not. Only an idiot would make such a statment. And the same goes for the construction industry. Thailand has alot of problems for various reasons: one because many people who come here have the wrong mind set and try to do everything on the cheap and that includes using unreliable, unprofessional construction persons and companies. Alot of people who come here have no money or job. They also try to build their own homes which one would never do in their own country and they don't ask the right questions. Construction is a very complex industry and takes many years of experience to understand.

There are some extremely trustworthy and professional companies here as too there are professional qualified project managers. All of whom are licenced, registered and fully qualified. All of whom have many years experience and chose it as their career. To think otherwise is ignorant and not true. I know several excellent people here.

Yes there are bad ones and yes there are terrible builders. But not all. And to be honest, you get terrible builders in the UK, USA and Europe too So to answer your question you can get a professional project manager in Thailand. They are are allowed to work here legally and do. How on earth do people think the construction industry works without them. It is an integral aspect of the construction process. The professional one with experience costs anything from 100-250,000 baht a month depending on size of project. If you want to use a local Thai PR then they will cost 20-50,000. Hope that helps. Good luck with it all.

A friend of mine has just given me the book" How to buy land & build a house in Thailand", written by Phillip Bryce.

On chapter 9 page 96, the author has written a section on project managers which reads:

"If your not living in Thailand full time or you are not supervising the building yourself, you should definitely consider hiring a local project manager.

The project manager is usally a native English (or your language) speaking person with a background in construction, who has lived, and supervised the building of houses in your area and has some building experience from the west.

Project managers usally charge a 25% fee on top of the total cost of your project. For that they will help you hire a builder, supervise the building process and help with the purchase of building materials. They will do project planning & scheduling of deliveries, and may do budgeting and handling of payments"

This author who has no connection to me whatsoever I might ad, has hit the nail completley on the head in my eyes, this is only 3 paragraphs from this section, but he clearly makes a very good point.

The complete book which in itself is also very good.

If you do a search on google for the author name there is numerous places you can buy this book as well as online. I have also seen it for sale in Asia books & Bookazine

Edited February 5, 2009 by kenco

[expatgaz]

Iam interested to know what latest Projects some of the Project Managers on here have undertaken.Not something they did 10 years ago,something they're working on now.

Also as this is an open forum for advice etc why do these guys not share info on who they deem as good builders out there.Then let the individual decide whether to employ a Project Manager or not.My feeling is 99% of them are full of crap and don't have a history in the Construction trade.If they did they would freely tell you who was good and bad at building as they'd be perfectly happy that their reputation would get them the work,not the secret info they where keeping,or pretending they have.

EPG.

[yabaaaa]

Not to mention the 25% fee...on a 6 mil house that is 1.5 mil to add to the cost... not a bad earn if you can get it. Remember he is probably not just working for you at the same time, maybe 1 or 2 or more others also.

But that project managment fee whatever it may be, could save you millions if your having a house built & not supervising it for whatever reason.

Your be sure the builder has not disaperead with your money, this is not un-heard of believe me

There are many things to consider, "Why should I hire a Project Manager?".

1. Making sure the plans and details are accurate and not "overbuilt" for profit. Example:

Many years ago managing the construction of an electronics factory the contractor specified lots of H-beam steel for roof support. Steel is much more expensive than concrete, increasing the overall cost as well as profit for the contractor who charges 'by weight'. Steel is much quicker and easier to install; crane and a couple guys to cinch it down.

Because of my background I was able to re-engineer the drawings eliminating a lot of unnecessary steel replacing it with concrete columns. The savings on this aspect alone was 2.5 million baht.

2. Strict attention of labor & material costs. Having a thorough knowledge of local labor and material costs can save a lot of money.

3. Job and material kickbacks: Common on most projects. Material suppliers will give a percentage; 5 to 10% kickbacks to the contractor and or other agents of the project/house owner. This can be monitored if one knows how.

4. Contracts and payment schedules: Most Project Managers with experience in the Kingdom will have proper contracts that include payment schedules. Normally a lawyer would do this for you although most lawyers have little to no construction experience so you're dependent on his limited knowledge.

5. Inferior materials: It's not un-common for builders to substitute inferior materials to increase profits. A seasoned Project Manager will know what to look for. Proper materials: cement, steel, grouts, additives, sealers, hardware, etc., etc. Even if you are managing the construction of your own house you need some knowledge of these and other aspects.

6. Proper construction applications: Someone with little or no hands-on experience and knowledge won't know the 'water doesn't go down the drain' until it's too late adding extra time, materials and labor to the project if the floor has to be broken out and redone.

Making sure the walls are plumb so the finishes are square and even. (Take a look in your bathroom at the floor where it meets the wall. Are the tiles the same size from one wall to the other?) Are the ceiling tiles proportionate? This is one particular test I give junior Thai (and farang) Project Manager's, "How to check and make sure the walls are square to one another?" and guess what, everyone of them didn't know the correct answer. A square doesn't do it, measuring from wall to wall doesn't do it. There's a formula that's very basic in nature that's very accurate. Lots of bits of technical and non-technical information to ensure a happy home..

and a special note to "tackleHappy". You appear not to have any construction experience in Thailand and perhaps anywhere else. Managing a single project is a 'full-time' occupation leaving little to no time for leisure activities and most especially "other projects". I can tell you many horror stories of house construction in the Kingdom and you can of course read about a lot of them also. It's a choice one has to make.

The bottom line is: (thanks dickie58 for your input) if you hire a Project Manager who knows his job, his salary or percentage won't cost you anything after all the cost savings in materials, labor, etc., and you'll end up with a better and stronger house that won't need repairs and/or replacements for eternity....and will most probably end up paying less for the overall build through diligent monitoring, etc., by hiring a competent PM.

and another special note to Guesthouse. This is not an advertisement for a job. I have a very good job and am not looking for another one.

All the above is for informational purposes only. The author assumes no responsibility for the outcome of your project regardless if you use any of the information stated or not...

Measure from corner to corner diagonally across the room from all four corners and see they are the same length exactly Is how id do it?

[excaliber]

"How to check and make sure the walls are square to one another?"

Measure from corner to corner diagonally across the room from all four corners and see they are the same length exactly Is how id do it?

The subject of squaring walls begins with the foundation and two perpendicular walls / or right angle to one another.

Checking for square or right angle 'after' the walls are built may be good exercise but is hardly a remedy,..... although typical of a lot of construction here in Thailand...Ex

[yabaaaa]

"How to check and make sure the walls are square to one another?"

Measure from corner to corner diagonally across the room from all four corners and see they are the same length exactly Is how id do it?

The subject of squaring walls begins with the foundation and two perpendicular walls / or right angle to one another.

Checking for square or right angle 'after' the walls are built may be good exercise but is hardly a remedy,..... although typical of a lot of construction here in Thailand...Ex

Yes but the question was "How to check and make sure the walls are square to one another?" it didnt say BEFORE they were built? or use 3-4-5 method.

So now are you talking about foundations square to walls? youv'e lost me

[donne]

"How to check and make sure the walls are square to one another?"

Measure from corner to corner diagonally across the room from all four corners and see they are the same length exactly Is how id do it?

The subject of squaring walls begins with the foundation and two perpendicular walls / or right angle to one another.

Checking for square or right angle 'after' the walls are built may be good exercise but is hardly a remedy,..... although typical of a lot of construction here in Thailand...Ex

Make a 3-4-5 triangle.

[manjara]

"How to check and make sure the walls are square to one another?"

Measure from corner to corner diagonally across the room from all four corners and see they are the same length exactly Is how id do it?

The subject of squaring walls begins with the foundation and two perpendicular walls / or right angle to one another.

Checking for square or right angle 'after' the walls are built may be good exercise but is hardly a remedy,..... although typical of a lot of construction here in Thailand...Ex

Make a 3-4-5 triangle.

I was telling the builders in my wife's hometown this last year, as they typically just tried to line things up by sight.

They humoured me for a while, but last time I was there, they had gone back to just using 'left a bit, right a bit'.

Thais are a proud nation, Thai is best!

[kenco]

Iam interested to know what latest Projects some of the Project Managers on here have undertaken.Not something they did 10 years ago,something they're working on now.

Also as this is an open forum for advice etc why do these guys not share info on who they deem as good builders out there.Then let the individual decide whether to employ a Project Manager or not.My feeling is 99% of them are full of crap and don't have a history in the Construction trade.If they did they would freely tell you who was good and bad at building as they'd be perfectly happy that their reputation would get them the work,not the secret info they where keeping,or pretending they have.

EPG.

I think you are 100% correct Expat Gaz !

So to answer your question:

I would recommend David from G & L Construction ( www.bangkokhomecare.com ) for any Bangkok construction. Worked for 20 years in construction and for award winning companies.

For Chiang Mai I would recommend Kensington ( chiangmaibuilders.com ) who won the Conde Nast Award in May for one of their builds. Two good honest companies. Expats who live and have registered professional companies.

I know both owners personally and can vouch for their integrity as good honest people who know the construction business very well. Any decent expat with money, a carrer or who has retired here would know these guys and their excellent reputation.

Hope that helps people avoid the bad guys and crappy builders

Edited February 23, 2009 by kenco

[eddiemonster]

There is a farang guy around these parts who passes himself off as a project manager.

Unfortunately, as far as anyone can tell, he has never managed to see a project through without falling out with the owner, leaving them poorer and clearing up the mess behind him.

The sad part is that, generally speaking, farangs wishing to build are scared of going it alone with a thai (for many reasons) so customers keep coming.

As one of the first posters said, just waiting for the next gormless farang to walk through the door.

Sure there must be good farang project managers out there, but beware.

[donne]

Sure. There are many great CMs out there. They just do the middle-large scale project. Probably 50 mBaht up? Nothing against small house/project. It is just not worth for both the owner and CM.

If you build a house, please find a good reputation architect and contractor. Hire architect who also provide CM work. Sign the contract, specify that you require resident engineer and inspector. Request their profiles and scope of work.

Make sure the contractor's contract specified to submit shop drawing and material prior to build. Also payment plan should submitted together with master schedule.

Roughly though.