14 hours ago, Hi from France said:

What planet do you live on ? The Uk started with the a vaccine created by a German startup (BioNTech) and produced in Belgium (in Puurs) and that the Brexit deal we are talking about here caused huge logistical problems to get to the UK.

 

Planet independent UK, thanks.

 

So what? We ordered so far in advance, we obviously honoured our agreement, even though it's about 10 x the price and far more difficult to handle. Unlike the EU who dithered about with their uncontrollable bureaucracy and delayed orders, not to mention the prioritisation of the MEP's for vaccinations over people at critical risk, e.g. health workers. But hey, don't worry about those insignificant individuals, make sure the EUP delegates, the MEP's, are looked after first - got to get their act together and their priorities right, me thinks!!

 

The logistical problems were probably to do with the excessive requirements for refrigeration of the BioNTech vaccine, which is obviously not so practical.

 

The French Pasteur Institute however, have again displayed their national characteristics, and surrendered to the challenge of producing one at all.

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by Tofer

14 hours ago, Hi from France said:

You also know that, as of yesterday, there are considerable doubts on the efficiency of Oxford-AstraZaneca, who could be as low as 8% on the elderly.

 

Total BS!!! Check again your information references, the source "was undisclosed" and the statement has been retracted, as your lot ""got confused"" by the data, which actually stated that 8% of over 65's were tested, not that the efficacy rate was 8%.

 

Does it hurt you, and your fellow compatriots, so much that the UK are leading the way in this regard, that you have to make up ridiculous claims, in an attempt to belittle the UK's successes, and attempt to damage the companies reputation??

 

If you don't believe in it, then why is UVL making such a fuss about controlling supplies of it, and whinging about being back of the queue to get it?

14 hours ago, candide said:

Sources gave been provided many times on this forum.

Here's a few from a few seconds long search on Google:

 

Thanks.

 

Your own highlighted reference states the UK agreements are "broadly equivalent", i.e NOT identical, and not simply cut and paste jobs, as you, and other remainers, would imply...

 

Well done! ????

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/astrazeneca-row-could-spark-an-eu-uk-vaccine-trade-war-warns-mep

AstraZeneca row could spark an EU-UK vaccine trade war, warns MEP

By Euronews  •   27/01/2021 - 23:18

 

Pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca could spark a UK-EU trade war unless it changes course over its vaccine supply row with Brussels, an MEP has warned.

 

more....

1 hour ago, Tofer said:

 

Then why does the EU want the ones from the UK, and propose controlling any exports from the EU?

Oh , my option would be what is produced in U.K. is U.K.'s own ....,

 

But if E.U. has to protect his citizens and can not have enough vaccine .... at least they should seal the borders for any U.K. passage  except for those who wish to go back to their respective country , as then E .U. has to protect 100% sealed of from that nasty U.K. Corona mutated  one , .... by 100 % sealing of borders i mean ALL transport possibility's including Ferry's and the Channel rail , as that is our only defense until enough vaccine available ..... on E.U. soil  any vaccine can be confiscated / seizable ,  based on health risk for population 

 

call it self defense...or preservation of population !

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by david555

11 minutes ago, david555 said:

Oh , my option would be what is produced in U.K. is U.K.'s own ....,

 

But if E.U. has to protect his citizens and can not have enough vaccine .... at least they should seal the borders for any U.K. passage  except for those who wish to go back to their respective country , as then E .U. has to protect 100% sealed of from that nasty U.K. Corona mutated  one , .... by 100 % sealing of borders i mean ALL transport possibility's including Ferry's and the Channel rail , as that is our only defense until enough vaccine available ..... on E.U. soil  any vaccine can be confiscated / drafted ,  based on health risk for population 

So what you are suggesting is that the 4 million European nationals living in the UK should be denied the vaccine purely based on theo nationality 

does anyone remember sinilar policies 80 years ago what is the old saying a leopard never changes its spots

 

22 minutes ago, david555 said:

Oh , my option would be what is produced in U.K. is U.K.'s own ....,

 

But if E.U. has to protect his citizens and can not have enough vaccine .... at least they should seal the borders for any U.K. passage  except for those who wish to go back to their respective country , as then E .U. has to protect 100% sealed of from that nasty U.K. Corona mutated  one , .... by 100 % sealing of borders i mean ALL transport possibility's including Ferry's and the Channel rail , as that is our only defense until enough vaccine available ..... on E.U. soil  any vaccine can be confiscated / seizable ,  based on health risk for population 

 

call it self defense...or preservation of population !

 

Then take back your EU citizens from the UK, and vaccinate them as well.

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

So what you are suggesting is that the 4 million European nationals living in the UK should be denied the vaccine purely based on theo nationality 

does anyone remember sinilar policies 80 years ago what is the old saying a leopard never changes its spots

 

No , i just say each for their own .... Justas said by abandoning ship ...

 

As not possible to get enough vaccine ,at least keep the risk for tat dangerous U.K. variety away by sealing of THAT danger what your Boris underestimated by not early enough closing flight to come in ... 

Simple 

 

Dont give it a twist to E.U. in U.K.   up to them to be there or not 

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by david555

Just now, Tofer said:

 

Then take back your EU citizens from the UK, and vaccinate them as well.

Then also take yours out of E.U. (a lot more i guess)

1 hour ago, david555 said:

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/astrazeneca-row-could-spark-an-eu-uk-vaccine-trade-war-warns-mep

AstraZeneca row could spark an EU-UK vaccine trade war, warns MEP

By Euronews  •   27/01/2021 - 23:18

 

Pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca could spark a UK-EU trade war unless it changes course over its vaccine supply row with Brussels, an MEP has warned.

 

more....

 

We already knew the EU don't know how to negotiate without bullying, strong arm and punishment tactics, and here you go, proving that point....

Just now, Tofer said:

 

We already knew the EU don't know how to negotiate without bullying, strong arm and punishment tactics, and here you go, proving that point....

That's why you are now all so happy with Boris deal  ..... isn't ????

 

Don't worry we shall defend our vaccination possibility  .... no doubt about that , at all means and actions  

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

Then also take yours out of E.U. (a lot more i guess)

how good is your maths 4 million EU citizens in the UK 1 million UK citizens in Europe so more EU citizens in the UK 

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

how good is your maths 4 million EU citizens in the UK 1 million UK citizens in Europe so more EU citizens in the UK 

O.K. if your matts are better , same thing to do , tit for that ..., i am not n accountant , but a good strategist  ..... 

BTW  your only 1 millions U.K. is a very low estimation , unless many choose double nationality ....????

Maybe Macron have to let you feel once more  what it means to be an Island state .... like with Christmas ..... as Boris quickly signed ...????

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by david555

1 hour ago, david555 said:

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/astrazeneca-row-could-spark-an-eu-uk-vaccine-trade-war-warns-mep

AstraZeneca row could spark an EU-UK vaccine trade war, warns MEP

By Euronews  •   27/01/2021 - 23:18

 

Pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca could spark a UK-EU trade war unless it changes course over its vaccine supply row with Brussels, an MEP has warned.

 

more....

German MEP Peter Liese hasn't really thought this one through

"I think the only consequence can be to immediately stop the export of the BioNTech vaccine and then we are in the middle of a trade war. So, the company and the UK better think twice."

We see that Europe is not treated well, not from the United States and not from the UK, and then we have to show our weapons. 

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/astrazeneca-row-could-spark-an-eu-uk-vaccine-trade-war-warns-mep

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

German MEP Peter Liese hasn't really thought this one through

"I think the only consequence can be to immediately stop the export of the BioNTech vaccine and then we are in the middle of a trade war. So, the company and the UK better think twice."

We see that Europe is not treated well, not from the United States and not from the UK, and then we have to show our weapons. 

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/astrazeneca-row-could-spark-an-eu-uk-vaccine-trade-war-warns-mep

A German who does not "think through "? ....????????????

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by david555

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Oh , my option would be what is produced in U.K. is U.K.'s own ....,

 

But if E.U. has to protect his citizens and can not have enough vaccine .... at least they should seal the borders for any U.K. passage  except for those who wish to go back to their respective country , as then E .U. has to protect 100% sealed of from that nasty U.K. Corona mutated  one , .... by 100 % sealing of borders i mean ALL transport possibility's including Ferry's and the Channel rail , as that is our only defense until enough vaccine available ..... on E.U. soil  any vaccine can be confiscated / drafted ,  based on health risk for population 

 

36 minutes ago, david555 said:

O.K. if your matts are better , same thing to do , tit for that ..., i am not n accountant , but a good strategist  ..... 

 

32 minutes ago, david555 said:

A German who does not "think through "? ....????????????

So you and the German MEP are suggesting  any vaccine produced on European soil should be for Europeans only

yet  AstraZeneca's delay was caused by production issues at a plant in Belgium

and yet the EU seeks access to AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccines produced at UK plants

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210127-eu-seeks-access-to-astrazeneca-s-covid-19-vaccines-produced-at-uk-plants

 

I assume you would have no issue if the UK deployed the SAS outside the AstraZeneca plants in the UK and simply impounded any vaccine that was being exported to Europe

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by vinny41
typo

19 minutes ago, david555 said:

O.K. if your matts are better , same thing to do , tit for that ..., i am not n accountant , but a good strategist  ..... 

BTW  your only 1 millions U.K. is a very low estimation , unless many choose double nationality ....????

Maybe Macron have to let you feel once more  what it means to be an Island state .... like with Christmas ..... as Boris quickly signed ...????

Desperation from your side again, The EU wants vaccine produced in the UK and Macron would block entry to that vaccine as previously stated both you and the German MEP haven't really thought this one through

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by vinny41
additional info

1 hour ago, david555 said:

Oh , my option would be what is produced in U.K. is U.K.'s own ....,

 

But if E.U. has to protect his citizens and can not have enough vaccine .... at least they should seal the borders for any U.K. passage  except for those who wish to go back to their respective country , as then E .U. has to protect 100% sealed of from that nasty U.K. Corona mutated  one , .... by 100 % sealing of borders i mean ALL transport possibility's including Ferry's and the Channel rail , as that is our only defense until enough vaccine available ..... on E.U. soil  any vaccine can be confiscated / seizable ,  based on health risk for population 

 

call it self defense...or preservation of population !

To quote David Jones MP: 

The UK funded development of AstraZeneca vaccine and placed an early order for 100 m doses, well before the EU. It’s not just a straightforward contractual position, it’s a matter of politeness. You don’t try to barge your way to the front of the cinema queue if you turn up late.

2 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

Thanks.

 

Your own highlighted reference states the UK agreements are "broadly equivalent", i.e NOT identical, and not simply cut and paste jobs, as you, and other remainers, would imply...

 

Well done! ????

Splitting hairs?

11 minutes ago, candide said:

Splitting hairs?

 

Read my earlier post and try a bit harder to understand, it said specifically - "identical".....

2 hours ago, david555 said:

Pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca could spark a UK-EU trade war unless it changes course over its vaccine supply row with Brussels, an MEP has warned.

 

How can it supply something the EU have not even approved yet?

21 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Read my earlier post and try a bit harder to understand, it said specifically - "identical".....

In a lexical sense you may be right. From a strategic point of view, however, they are rollover or continuity deals , except the Japan deal which is only very similar. Same countries as before and more or less the same content, so no new opportunity resulting from the new 'freedom'.

The EU are certainly not covering themselves in glory or creditability, since Le Drian and the EFET are now issuing new threats of disruption to the supply of energy to the UK, if the EU fishermen are excluded from the UK waters in 2026.

 

The agreement has already be made on fishing, not even one month ago, yet the EU are already issuing threats to employ punishment tactics to influence the deal, unbelievable...

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by Tofer

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

 

 

So you and the German MEP are suggesting  any vaccine produced on European soil should be for Europeans only

yet  AstraZeneca's delay was caused by production issues at a plant in Belgium

and yet the EU seeks access to AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccines produced at UK plants

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210127-eu-seeks-access-to-astrazeneca-s-covid-19-vaccines-produced-at-uk-plants

 

I assume you would have no issue if the UK deployed the SAS outside the AstraZeneca plants in the UK and simply impounded any vaccine that was being exported to Europe

Read my former comment ...where i said what is produced in U.K. is yours

 

....but dont count on what is produced in the E.U....when your U.K. astra zeneca  fails to deliver the amounts agreed ...

 

Take good purpose of that produced in U.K.????

You can vaccinate those SAS already with it ...????....BTW are that those ones from soi buakhao ????

 

SAS ????...spoken about a brexit buncher taking things out of proportion

 

 

....E.U.ASTRA ZENECA  production would do .....

Do U.K. also have a Pfizer production plant ...? I guess not...????

 

6 minutes ago, candide said:

In a lexical sense you may be right. From a strategic point of view, however, they are rollover or continuity deals , except the Japan deal which is only very similar. Same countries as before and more or less the same content, so no new opportunity resulting from the new 'freedom'.

 

Put your shovel away, that holes getting deeper.... ????

A BBC article mentions the EU arguments:

- the UK sites were stipulated as primary sites in the contract

- the money paid in advance went into UK sites.

 

"In a nutshell, here is why EU officials are furious with AstraZeneca. They say the contract between them and the pharmaceutical giant clearly stipulates that the two main vaccine production factories in the UK are to be classed as primary manufacturing sites, and the production sites in Belgium and the Netherlands are secondary priorities."

"In fact, EU officials point out to me that EU money went into upgrading the facilities in the UK and that they fully expected it to be operational for them."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55822602

 

 

11 minutes ago, Tofer said:

 

Put your shovel away, that holes getting deeper.... ????

So the sentence you wrote, which was at the start of this discussion, wasn't intended to show that UK was benefiting from new opportunities resulting from its new freedom?

What was the meaning then? The freedom to get part of the same benefits as before?

 

Quote from your post

"Freedom to trade world wide, without the restrictions imposed by the EU - 63 new trade deals to date and increasing....."

32 minutes ago, david555 said:

Read my former comment ...where i said what is produced in U.K. is yours

 

....but dont count on what is produced in the E.U....when your U.K. astra zeneca  fails to deliver the amounts agreed ...

 

Take good purpose of that produced in U.K.????

You can vaccinate those SAS already with it ...????....BTW are that those ones from soi buakhao ????

 

SAS ????...spoken about a brexit buncher taking things out of proportion

 

 

....E.U.ASTRA ZENECA  production would do .....

Do U.K. also have a Pfizer production plant ...? I guess not...????

 

It seems the German MEP Peter Liese has been watching old episodes of Blackadder

Frau Merkel 'I have a cunning plan we deny those cursed Brits access to any vaccine produced on European soil and at the same time we will demand they provide us with vaccine produced from their British plants

As for taking things out of proportion who was it that posted "on E.U. soil  any vaccine can be confiscated / drafted ,  based on health risk for population "

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by vinny41
additional info

A poster has mentioned the so-called UK variant of covid-19 with a clear implication that the UK was the cause of the variant. However it is more than likely that the reason for initial discovery being in the UK is more to do with the advanced genomic testing that is recognised as being a UK specialty. 

What might be more telling, in terms of where the variant originated, it was first discovered in Kent. Hmmm. 

This BBC article provides some background.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55413666

 

As for the current AZ/EU spat, this Guardian opinion piece is rather more circumspect than usual in that it actually suggests that the EU is not faultless. Now, that is definitely a 'shock / horror' moment for that normally extreme EU centric rag.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/27/eu-vaccine-bust-up-astrazeneca

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by dabhand

A poster has mentioned the so-called UK variant of covid-19 with a clear implication that the UK was the cause of the variant. However it is more than likely that the reason for initial discovery being in the UK is more to do with the advanced genomic testing that is recognised as being a UK specialty. 

What might be more telling, in terms of where the variant originated, it was first discovered in Kent. Hmmm. 

This BBC article provides some background.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55413666

 

As for the current AZ/EU spat, this Guardian opinion piece is rather more circumspect that usual in that it actually suggests that the EU is not faultless. Now, that is definitely a 'shock / horror' moment for that normally extreme EU centric rag.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/27/eu-vaccine-bust-up-astrazeneca